te.

7 minutes ago, Khan said:

Personally, I think CBSD would cancel "The Talk" or "Let's Make a Deal" before they'd cancel either B&B or Y&R.

Well, The Talk at the very least. It's worth remembering that they brought Jerry O'Connell on as an attempt to differentiate it from other women talk shows and to boost ratings and it's still at the bottom. I don't see it surviving before B&B (plus, as others pointed out if The Gates does bomb it leaves them in a worse position without B&B to fall back on).

Another thought re: profitability and this being a majority black cast. 

In prime time we've seen a lot of shows break out that's either been majority black or black led like Empire or Abbott Elementary. However, the issue with these shows that attract a large African-American audience is that despite rating well, they don't attract premium advertisers because they're usually from low-income households. Star was essentially cancelled due to this. It was rating well in the 18-49 demographic, just not in high-income households making it unprofitable for prime time.

Daytime doesn't have this issue; there's no pressure to attract higher income audiences because well, everybody needs and buys soap and that's the advertisers that it's supposed to sell to. So it makes sense to develop this from that perspective.

I think it's worth remembering that even if shows like The Talk is cheap, it literally has zero value beyond it's initial airing especially on streaming. Surely, that must be something CBS have taken into consideration with developing a new soap, particularly one they have a stake in.

35 minutes ago, BoldRestless said:

It's wild that last time a soap was launched there was no social media or YouTube. I'm not sure there was Wikipedia and IMDB. 

I've had my IMDB account since 1999, so...

Wiki didn't come until the mid-00s.

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

I'll believe it when it exists onscreen, but this doesn't seem to be the same thing as that fly-by-night Pine Valley effort a few years ago which I was always skeptical about. I think the only thing keeping that in the mix for a year or two was the star power of Kelly and SMG.

That was for prime time and they still have budget there to order scripts only to have them gathering dust. Ordering for daytime hasn't happened since... uh, when was the last time it was seriously even talked about to launch a new daytime soap? 

I'm stunned that not only a new soap is being developed, but that it's being developed for broadcast. I assumed the next time we'd see a new soap would be for an online streamer!

On one hand, it hasn't been ordered yet, but on the other hand would they bother putting it into development if they weren't viewing this as a sure thing to go to broadcast?

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

Uncle Mickey had amnesia much more recently than Tommy. I wonder why the writers chose to talk about Tommy instead of him.

IIRC, it was because DvD's character has been in the same war as Tommy.

Plus, they had already shown some rare flashbacks in relation with Mikey's amnesia  on Suzanne's 50th anniversary.

1 hour ago, Gray Bunny said:

This may or may not have already been mentioned here previously, but in the Season 2 premiere when Kimberly and Michael move into the beach house, they specifically mention it's a 1-bedroom home. Yet, seasons later there's magically a second room... 

I think it expands when the apartment complex explodes at least I think several people sleep there in the immediate aftermath (though maybe they got mattresses all over the floor I guess). The real beach house was bigger (it's torn down now since a few years back RIP), so I assume they just reverted it to the actual floor plan of that house. I'm guessing they wanted to downplay the size when Michael and Kimberly moved in to make it seem a bit more modest for their financial standing (but no one really cared lol).

6 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Yes he was a big TV star but never followed through. Maybe he got a bad rep or walked away from good offers ... Anyway he turned up on GH for a while.

A quick look at his Wiki and apparently he went to Betty Ford in the 90s. So he was an addict and probably affected his behavior off set. Hollywood might not care if you're an addict (a lot of actors have substance abuse issues), but once it impacts the production, you're toast. 

He mostly seemed to do guest spots, so I guess he could pull it together short term, but probably was a mess for longer productions. Aaron Spelling was loyal to actors, but after the Mod Squad movie he only threw him a bone for Vega$ and Fantasy Island and then didn't work with him again for 15 years until a guest spot on 7th Heaven. 

Well, I randomly came across this today:

Seemingly it's a short-lived attempt at a syndicated soap opera from 1995 starring Maree Cheatham, Raquel Gardner and Ash Adams. It's an adaptation of Mexican telenovelas Tu o nadie and Acapulco, Cuerpo y Alma and was presumably sold as either a package of 60 or 120 episodes. It wasn't successful, but I guess someone found the time to upload the series to YouTube in the 60 episodes format; I guess it's a bit of a curiosity as an attempt to break daytime soaps into the syndicated market.

3 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Both shows were decent enough timeslot hits (Coach after Roseanne, Wings after Cheers) both were at least mildly entertaining to watch at least in the early years, yet neither show proved they could stand on their own once they got moved around to other timeslots and eventually as changes occurred to both shows (Thomas Hayden Church leaving Wings, Coach changing settings from Minnesota to Florida) both shows became unremarkable and collapsed. 

Yup. They were so-called "satellite" hits. Shows that were in proximity of an actual huge hit and they fed off it - I think comedies also had an easier time to retain viewers because at worst they're mildly amusing to spend an half hour (while maybe doing something else), especially if you're not going to switch the channel anyway. NBC's Thursday murder night of Friends / Satellite Comedy / Seinfeld / Satellite Comedy / ER was a factory plant for these sort of "false" hits.

What's funny about Coach is that they were going to reboot it a decade or so ago, but realised once giving it a direct-to-series order that it wasn't going to work. Allegedly the stars got paid for the entire episode order (I believe it was ten episodes), but I think only a pilot was filmed, if that.

I guess this falls under "Counterprogramming to try and sabotage another network, shows survival be damned", but scheduling Freshman Dorm / 2000 Malibu Road against Beverly Hills 90210 / Melrose Place during the late summer of '92. While 2000 Malibu Road outrated Melrose Place because that was getting weaker post-premiere, Freshman Dorm just bombed against The Summer of Deception (aka Douchebag Dylan and That Snake Kelly Gets It On), because how couldn't it? It just seemed like ruthless counterprogramming where they almost weren't that concerned with the success of their own shows as much as trying to damage the Fox line-up. It was summer, so it wasn't like there weren't other timeslots available...

Okay, Freshman Dorm was maybe too young to last on CBS (though I could see it being a cute show to on early Sunday evening), but 2000 Malibu Road clearly had potential to replace the aging Knots Landing. Either way, both shows probably could've rated better away from the Fox line-up.

Interesting since in recent years the syndication number has been lowered to more like 80-90-ish episodes (ie three months of daily M-F stripped syndication), so there's a lot of examples in recent years of shows lasting four seasons. 

Honestly, finding a new villain for a soap is not exactly a problem as long as they get the casting right. Sheila's just done way too much over the decades to be able to work as a character interacting with other characters on this show. Just start writing new villains with blank slates that can actually convincingly manipulate people without them looking dumb as hell as a result. 

With that said, Sheila will be back when Bradley needs a ratings boost.

32 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I think in the end both Matt and Rhonda were on the chopping block and the show decided to keep the gay character because it was more edgy at the time.

I agree with you - once you start getting into the later part of the season when Amanda enters you there's a strong focus on the triangle (Alison / Billy / Amanda) and Jake and Jo. Other than that most of the cast starts going AWOL or just briefly appears. I think before they decided to go ahead with the Kimberly affair, Michael and Jane were also on consideration for the chopping block along with Rhonda and Matt.

Matt probably won out because he's Darren Star's self-insert character, plus Rhonda started drifting from the show once she got with Terrance. TBH, they probably could've done something with her considering her professional dancer background (I guess they could've forced her into some sort of talent coach/agent role).

6 hours ago, Vee said:

I think they knew it was change it up or cancellation with the latter half of Season 1 and Heather.

To be honest, I think Melrose would've been renewed for season 2 even without the Heather boost. It wasn't doing great, but looking at the other three dramas they launched that year - The Heights, Class of 96 and Key West, all bombed far worse than Melrose and networks rarely like to cancel all their new dramas (it's like admitting complete defeat). With that said, it probably would've had more of a The Colby's run of two-seasons-and-done as I'm sure they might've moved it from the safe space of the post-90210 halo. 

On a related note I've been watching failed soapy dramas this year and am on The Heights and Class of 96. I don't think either is too bad if you like these sort of early 90s shows. The Heights is probably trying to be a bit too heavy on the social issues of the day and in all honesty, I'm preferring Class of 96 as it feels a lot lighter (for now - I'm only two episodes in). Which is funny since "heavy" isn't a thing you'd normally associate with Aaron Spelling shows.

You kind of have to wonder how something like The Heights would've turned out if Fox had more patience with it and it lasted into Melrose Place going full-on barmy soap. Even the mothership didn't escape Melrose's influence.

Sheila is just a well that's dry, yet they keep going back for no good reason. Soap psychos / short-term villains are probably the easiest characters to write for (if not cast). And in all honesty, a new character would probably make as much sense as Sheila doing these things.

2 hours ago, Liberty City said:

So far so good for a '90s primetime soap. I'm on episode three, I think?

The early episodes are a bit... earnest and most doesn't work due to them being in their 20s... learning lessons that you'd expect the kids on 90210 to learn, and as a result it sort of become cringe-worthy. 90210 suffered from this in their later seasons when they'd occasionally tried to do "Issue of the Week" storylines and all characters ended up looking dumb as hell (like when Kelly had to explain to Donna about street prostutition in season 8).

On 2/20/2024 at 5:58 AM, Paul Raven said:

Good counter programming and none of the opposition looked particularly strong.

 

I don't think it actually looked *too* horrible until the last episode:

8.3 - 7.2 - 7.2 - 7.5 - 5.9.

I guess because they had the Perry Mason and Saved by the Bell tv movies scheduled to air in the slot, they might've thought The Round Table couldn't sustain those breaks and the last airing didn't inspire them much hope? It didn't rate that differently from I'll Fly Away bar that last performance and considering the trajectory of prime time soaps in general I'd at least given them 13 episodes to prove themselves. But maybe this is also why NBC just couldn't catch a break with prime time soaps - a lack of patience.

1 hour ago, Liberty City said:

Finally beginning Melrose Place for the first time. Exciting.

Have fun! Even if people keeps dragging up Amanda as the moment the show changed, I'd argue they started having their first serialized moments (beyond the lame 90210 cross-over) earlier than that - around episode 11 if I remember correctly.

19 minutes ago, Chris B said:

I also wonder why no US soap builds a standing outside set. That's why the UK soaps are able to seamlessly film outdoors because they have outdoor town square type sets they can regularly use. 

Well, Days did have Salem Place (which was a lot smaller than it looked, but clearly effective). But realistically it's just cost I'd assume - outside take up more space that could be used for other things, plus I remember daytime soap fans bizarrely complaining that Sunset Beach didn't look enough like a soap (!). 

5 hours ago, cody_1990 said:

Look at some of those 60s episodes of Days available online, they basically had the Horton house and a few other basic sets and that’s it.

I think that part of it is the cast expansion that happened with going to an hour - suddenly you had a lot of characters that needed homes and places where they could realistically interact. When you had maybe a maximum of six speaking characters appearing per day (like apparently Dark Shadows had as their limit) you didn't need a lot of sets. When soaps started downscaling again, you were left with a lot of characters without homes or any places where they would logically have interactions, hence the recent "housing crisis" in Salem. 

It's been said before, but if soaps are going to survive moving online they need to start experimenting with shorter formats. When a rare Search for Tomorrow episode from the 50s was unearthed recently people commented on how quick, enjoyable and easy to follow it was. I don't think any daytime soap needs to be over half an hour tbh; one of the good things about DAYS moving online is that at least they aren't forced to film a lot of filler material for the episodes to make it to broadcast length. A lot of the better episodes usually end up being closer to the 30 minute mark than the 45 minute one. 

14 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

LOL! The exterior shots of the buildings just did not match or "work" with the interior sets for shows like All in the Family, The Mary Tyler Moore Show or The Golden Girls either. We just have to go with the flow, I guess.

I genuinely never realised how messed up some of those floor plans were until I started trying to build things in The Sims 1. Besides not making sense from an architectural point of view (why would you have a gigantic upper floor plan while a relatively small downstairs?), but also just rooms running into each other, windows technically looking into other rooms and so on...

1 hour ago, Manny said:

But I wanted to see this episode. And it was nice. It was nice to see some of those flashbacks.

To be fair to the show, they've actually been pretty decent with digging up flashbacks that aren't the usual ones lately - they showed some rather rare Marlena footage when Dee celebrated her 5000th episode on the show. It makes me hopeful that they might be digitizing the material at least.

8 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I think this has been established before?   I don't know how I know this, but it wasn't a surprise to me, so I assume Roman may have mentioned it years ago. 

It honestly wouldn't surprise me considering how hard they tried to establish the Brady's in the 80s and it's a classic soap tactic to try and insert new characters in old characters history. I guess it's a fairly small window where that sort of anecdote could've been established (1982-84) so if someone would want to verify it and happens to have a collection of those episodes they could go ahead with it lol.