Cat

I don't know... she's never posted something so final sounding as this, and she timed it to coincide with the reunion. Also thanking the fans, lol. This reads like she's walking away after this season. But I've been wrong before. I cannot imagine BH without Kyle and her sister drama.

BH Oh, Kyle leaned into that victim role big-time. She was LI-VING. FYI she still has not publicly admonished Rinna for going after Kathy these last few months. That is such a mystery to me! She refused to do so at reunion, side-stepping Andy's question so that she could refocus attention on her own martyrdom. Is it because Rinna is her pitbull, getting back at her sisters in a way she never can directly? Is it because Kyle believes deep-down that Kathy said all that and more? Certainly her defense of Kathy was lukewarm: "I didn't hear that" is not quite as convincing as "i don't believe she would ever say that." It's been so long since someone dared go toe to toe with the Coven that to see Kathy ON FIRE like that was a shock. I'd forgotten what it was like on BH to have someone not pull their punches. Did Kathy think she had wandered onto the Potomac stage by mistake? She came prepared, and it was everything I wanted and more. It felt like the real Kathy was coming out. As @Cheap21 surmised, you just do not f*** with Kathy Hilton IRL. Rinna practically skipping out of that reunion after watching that relationship implode is truly one of the darkest things I have ever seen. Kyle posted this yesterday. She's been on BH since the beginning and literally shaped the show with her DNA. If this is her goodbye, honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I figured there was a SL reason. Those two are notorious since S2 for fabricating fake boyfriend SLs for Giz and fake proposals from Juan SLs for Robyn. They needed to mix it up with a new story, I guess.

IA. Robyn has always acted like the stereotypical bully's sidekick. She targets the weakest link (Wendy, who as @Soaplovers said, is unlikeable. And, i would add, is always policing people's conversations). Robyn gets cocky when she has back-up and a crowd. Even though I'm not a fan of Wendy, it was spiteful of Robyn to invite everyone there except for Wendy and her kids, right to her face. I will say I gasped when I saw Robyn in the final scene having a sit-down with Candiace & Chris behind Gizelle's back and pledging her support. I'm not sure what is motivating this independent thought, but I imagine it must be years of fans saying she is nothing but Giz's lackey. Other thoughts: I don't think Karen should get too close to Gizelle, who is radioactive right now. There is only so much you can defend with her. Mia is so messy and contrived. She's just bringing up Chris sh!t to remain part of the fray. I'm glad production countered her 'accusations' with footage of Chris pointedly NOT looking at Mia's dancing boobs. Honestly, as co-dependent as Candiace & Chris are, I think he is overall an ok guy, and very much doubt he would ever look for an opportunity with Candiace's frenemies Ashley and Gizelle. He said something to Robyn about never initiating a hug or a handshake with the women, he waits for them to choose how they want to greet him. That resonated with me because I know a lot of guys who say the same. They don't want to cross any uncomfortable or misconstrued lines.

Rinna is really not well. She is obsessive and can't let go until she publicly obliterates her intended target on the cast. She doesn't have much of a conscience governing her interaction with those she despises, which is why i thought (and still wonder if) she was behind the bots that went after Jax. She needs a full mental detox. And if she actually had some legit work coming her way, she'd have less time to obsess over her nemesis.

Oh for sure I think Diana was racist and obsessed with Garcelle and targeting her because of her race. I'm thinking of Garcelle's interactions with other people where it might be more a personality clash.

OK so Bravo read your post (LOL) and decided to post a preview from next week where they 'address' the cackling about Jax. So: cackling about Jax is different from cackling about your own precious kids? Best believe that if it was Kyle's offspring, and Garcelle was laughing about having told Portia to f*ck off, it would be a whole entire season of Kyle Tears and demands that G be removed from the show because she bullies children. The thing that bothers me is the easy brush-off of Garcelle's POV by members of the Coven. It's like she doesn't deserve the same respect that they demand for themselves from the group -- but at the same time they hold her to a higher standard when she supports Sutton, while giving a pass to Erika, Rinna and Diana's vulgarities. Also the defensive, arm-twisted apologies. Dorit felt like she'd been stabbed in the stomach? Could her hyperbole be any less sincere? Garcelle makes a great point about how apologies in this group are not really apologising, but rather side-stepping actual accountability and gagging the person asking for the apology. I already said I was sorry. What more do you want? You make an interesting point about Twitter and the backlash towards other cast members who perhaps do not gel with Garcelle as personalities. It might not be a race thing, but a Sagittarius not gelling with a Virgo kind of thing? But then it gets conflated into a race thing. Nevertheless, as I mentioned above, I do believe the Coven's pointed lack of empathy for anyone outside their own feelings prevents them from understanding racial nuances and putting themselves in Crystal or Garcelle's shoes. For what it's worth, I do think it is possible for people to learn and grow on this issue. But some of the BH cast have made a choice not to do that because it doesn't fit with their end-game. As for LVP, I liked her, especially in her early seasons. I'm not sure I found her to be bitter, but ruthless? Absolutely. She had the top spot on BH for so long, and she wanted to keep that spot. And after S6, it was Game On with the other women who openly wanted her off the show. From that time on, LVP became worried. It was all about presenting a very rigid, crafted image to the world: the dogs/animals, Villa Rosa, the unfunny jokes, and she didn't dare deviate from that inflexible image. IMO that inflexibility was her downfall. She couldn't shed her armor, and she wasn't evolving in the eyes of the audience. The Coven pecked at that armor until they made holes. Since then, I believe LVP has moved on. I think she wants a happier, easier, less rigid life. Would she return to BH? Possibly -- if they paid her old salary, and if it meant the downfall of the Coven. She has stated on Twitter that she would never go back. Most of the audience has moved on, too, and are invested in BH's current evolution without her.

You said it all. Andy should not be moderating these questions of microagressions and race because he is so wrapped up in himself that he does not get it. He and Kyle are two peas in a pod in that respect. Kyle not understanding that Crystal POV or laughing off grabbing Sutton or taking up for Diana non-stop illustrated this. Andy tee-hee-ing with Rinna over the book -- he didn't even glance over at Garcelle to check in on her. Garcelle wins fans over because her humanity and reaction are written silently all over her face, and the audience connects to that. Not to contrived Rinna practicing her script or Erika pretending she is so tough and too kool for skool. Agree about Dorit. She hasn't given us anything in years and only speaks up once she gets a reading on how the Coven wants to play something a certain way. She can go. Erika's breath 'shade' towards LVP was as cruel and empty as she is. LVP smells of garlic and chardonnay? Clearly she is dining well and having a great time. Sutton did well this episode. She was clear and measured and shut Rinna down. Somebody had to because clearly Andy wasn't going to. Cannot wait for Kathy to sip her water bottle and tell Rinna some home truths. RHOP Gizelle trying to start some SL saying Chris made her uncomfortable... Im not sure I believe that to be the case, and if so, she is abusing her platform with that nothingburger.

Carlos King's podcast got a big scoop this week -- an interview with Ramona Singer. I cannot believe I am saying this, but Ramona acquits herself well this interview (I've only just started listening to bits of it). Spills the tea with minimum fuss and answers all the questions about WTH went down over at RHONY. I don't doubt that she's often a terrible person, but I'm not sure she's a complete liar. A lot of what she says about Bravo's decision-making sound plausible. Although the fact that Eboni reported her for racism to Bravo HR also sounds highly probable.

More on the new RHONY HWs I cannot wait to watch this (and M2M) tonight. I think Gizelle may have pulled a Rinna and over-pot-stirred herself into a mess.

This is the kind of show I would have totally watched back then. Too bad it wasn't picked up. Not pissing on this, because I'm giving any show about NYC in all its multiplicity a fighting chance. However, was I the only one who misses original RHONY? It was barely mentioned at BravoCon. No Luann or Sonja even! And BravoCon is held in NYC. I wish they had given a shout-out to the show because it has its loyal fans -- even after one lousy season. As for the new RHONYettes -- well, at least they aren't all 20-year old influencers. Not to pit generation against generation (which everybody in media loves to do these days), but IMO the RHs that work best are a multigenerational mix of boomer-to-millennial (Potomac), baby-boomers only (OG RHONY), and Gen Xers only (BH, NJ, SLC, ATL). These are the sufficiently effed-up generations who have lived a bit and accumulated some significant life experience outside of constant Instagram surveillance or reality TV. Once we hit a Bravo show featuring millennials only or Gen Zers only (Winter House, Real Girlfriends in Paris), the ratings are often lower, and that may be for a multitude of reasons. As for this cast itself, I've only heard of Jenna Lyons who was HUGE in fashion circles in the 2000s. She was creative director of J Crew when J Crew was in, and basically the brand became indivisible from Lyons' much-mediatized personal style. J Crew took a hit after the 2008 financial crisis (IMO they expanded too rapidly), its quality and popularity waned, and she was eventually cut loose in 2017. She's been pushing some reality shows with fashion as their concept since then. It will be interesting if she has the OTT, pot-stirring mentality of a RH, but my gut says that she is much more composed than that. P.S.: Was Potomac on last night?

Now I know Christmas is coming with my Miami back!! Miami is the only show where I literally gasp over the fashions, landscape and houses. BH doesn't hold a candle to it.

The story Daytime Fan talked about Lansbury and MSW allowing aging guest stars to access health care provisions is one that really stays with me. Angela Lansbury no doubt was a complex, three dimensional woman, but her decency and humanity spoke through her actions. None of it was performative virtie-signaling, either. Giving up her career to move her family to Ireland to save her two children from heroin addiction. Using her MSW platform not just to entertain, but to keep jobbing actors in employment. She stood up to all-around creep and misogynist Les Moonves, too. I couldn't admire this woman more.

So the Legends Ball was basically 'Dance for your master, performing monkeys!' time with Andy sitting while these women performed for him. But I've gotta say, most of these women took the opportunity and ran with it. Kenya and especially Candiace. Melissa was a bit lacklustre, I thought, but I can't deny that On Display is an iconic RH song. I wish it had ended with that unmistakable voice coming over the sound system: "Ladies and gentlemen. This is the Countess speaking..."

Bravocon this year is like Bravocon on coke! Fans are going crazy and the casts are spilling it all! People having sex in the bathrooms (allegedly), Ashley Darby might be hooking up with Luke from Summer House as I type, Garcelle apparently going to reveal who released the bots today, villainous HWs getting booed. Kenya said the HW she wants to return is Nene. Drew said she'd bring Porsha back. Make it happen, Bravo. I can't keep up with all the info/rumors! Here are a couple: Jen Shah tried to crash Bravocon events, according to Tamra. RHONY Luann and Sonja's spinoff got a sneak peek. I've missed those two.

Which begs the question: just how bad is the dirt that the rest of the Coven have on Kyle?? BH reunion part 1 was much better than expected. That's because past reunions have fizzled. The last few seasons (including this one) have built up to an intense, sinister crescendo, to the point where viewers tune in because Reunion = The Reckoning. And we usually end up disappointed. Either Garcelle and Sutton pull their punches, or Rinna fake-apologises to side-step responsibility, or Andy lets the Coven go hog-wild on their intended target (see S10 with Denise). Not this episode. I was surprised how quickly the show got to the important stuff -- the racist abuse levied at Jax. Garcelle was not messing around, and you could see how shaken to her core she was about this. When the malevolent spirit of Sanela/Diana wafted into the room, you could feel Garcelle's emotion and tenseness silently ratchet up to a 9. BudgetGhislaine tried to gaslight her way out of that, but Garcelle was not going to let her get away with anything. I gasped in shock when Garcelle said 'yep' when asked if she thought Diana was behind the bots. Not because I thought she was lying, but because someone at this reunion was finally saying sh!t openly for the first time in years. And when she pointed out that Diana has been hounding her on social media on a daily basis -- I hadn't realised it was to that extent, but I have seen it. There is something incredibly nasty and sinister about Diana. Garcelle's anger at Kyle and the others was a long overdue outpouring of emotions she must have locked in tight all these months for the sake of her son. Garcelle also pointed out that the point of the bots was to get her off the show, because Garcelle is going to choose her children over BH. I have always wondered if the bots were a team effort involving Sanela, Rinna, Erika and possibly others, but that Sanela is the one who financed it all. Other than that: Erika is yet again acting grumpy and bored about being there. Was she a b!tch to Paymaster Andy, or was that me imagining things? Agree with all this. I enjoyed RHOA this past season, but it lacked impetus and drive. Currently, I am catching up on Porsha's Family Matters spin-off, not because I adore Porsha per se, but she sure keeps me glued to the screen with her dramas and machinations. And this links up to your point -- right now, Porsha, Cynthia and Nene have stuff going ON. Stuff that we, as viewers, are invested in watching. Like @Cheap21 said, Nene is least likely to return, because she targeted Andy in her lawsuit and he won't forgive that. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see her back, and Porsha, and Cyn City. I am invested in these shows and they are my Daytime soaps now, I guess. So I am here for the long haul, but there is no doubt they are waning and seem to have lost their way a bit. They need to bring back some of these compelling women (and find better ones in the future) if they want the brand to remain vital.

This is devastatingly sad news -- a true class act. And also one of the few female friends of Elizabeth Taylor's -- they both went through the child-star system at MGM together. Having followed Lansbury for many years, via Gaslight, The Manchurian Candidate, Murder She wrote (of course) and Blythe Spirit, and even having watched my mom's VHS tape of her older-ladies-exercise-video -- I thought I knew all there was to know about Angela Lansbury. I didn't know this story: -------- The late Angela Lansbury — who died in the early hours of Tuesday at her Los Angeles home just days shy of her 97th birthday — once had to pry her daughter from the clutches of convicted murderer Charles Manson. In a 2014 interview with DailyMail.com, Lansbury revealed that Diedre, now 69, had begun running with a crowd led by the musician-turned-mass murderer during the 1960s, and with her brother Anthony had become involved with drugs. In order to keep her daughter and the rest of her family safe, the ‘Murder, She Wrote’ actress moved her whole family from their home in Los Angeles to Ireland, where her mother’s family hailed from. Lansbury said the troubles with Diedre and her older son Anthony, now 70, began in the 1960s when they fell under the sway of drugs. ‘It started with cannabis but moved on to heroin,’ the Sweeney Todd star explained at the time. Their drug use brought her children, who were just teens at the time, into unsavory circles. ‘There were factions up in the hills above Malibu that were dedicated to deadly pursuits,’ she continued. ‘It pains me to say it but, at one stage, Deidre was in with a crowd led by Charles Manson.’ Like some of Manson’s followers, who would later commit the horrendous Tate–LaBianca murders, Diedre was allegedly drawn to the cult leaders charms. ‘She was one of many youngsters who knew him — and they were fascinated,’ Lansbury continued. ‘He was an extraordinary character, charismatic in many ways, no question about it.’ Fearing the kind of trouble her daughter might get into if she stayed in Manson’s circle, Lansbury proposed a major move overseas. ”I said to [husband] Peter [Shaw], “We have to leave.” So we upped sticks and moved the family to a house I found in County Cork,’ she said, explaining that it was a sort of homecoming, even though she had been born in London. ‘I was drawn to Ireland because it was the birthplace of my mother and it was also somewhere my children wouldn’t be exposed to any more bad influences,’ Lansbury continued. ‘I still have a house there which I try and visit at least once a year. So I refused all work for a year and simply kept house. I bought Elizabeth David’s books and learnt how to cook properly,’ she added, referencing the popular British cooking writer. ‘It was a wonderful time in my life.’ A change of scenery proved to be just the prescription for her children, who thrived in Ireland. ‘Anthony pulled right out of his bad habits quite quickly,’ Lansbury shared. ‘It took Deidre a little longer, but she finally got married and she and her husband now live in Los Angeles, where they run their own Italian restaurant.’ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11305741/Angela-Lansbury-saved-daughter-clutches-Charles-Manson-uprooting-Ireland.html

Poor Cynthia. She seemed so into him too. Not for nothing, but it'd be nice if she and Porsha came back to RHOA. Yeah, I'm not sure it suits her either. Cynthia seems like someone who prefers her own company and is naturally a bit of a loner.

Poor Brent and poor Nene. Wow. 23 is way too young for a heart attack and a stroke. Hope he recovers quickly and fully.

This is literally amazing. Karen: "Behave yourself Ray." Ray:

IA, Mia got a scare and spoke too soon. She posted as she attempted to process the news, and she's a millennial addicted to Twitter, so of course she lives on social media. Gizelle was looking for shady wrongdoing where there was none, because once Mia got a clear diagnosis, she posted about that, too. The thing that turned me off a little bit about Mia last year was how knowing she was (or thought she was) about the RH game. She really thought she did something at reunion, too, when she kind of didn't. After a near-disastrous turn last year, I've been warming to Candiace during the off-season. This first episode though... the way she talks to Chris is too harsh and dismissive IMO. I know she wants their schedules to mirror, but when you marry a chef/caterer, it is going to be long hours and nights. Also: suddenly she's all about supporting Ashley? I had whiplash with that OOC U-turn. Did you see Chris's grimace after Gizelle attempted to make fake small-talk? He does not like nor trust her (nor should he). Interesting that Gizelle is trying to build a case that Chris is hitting on her. Ashley, Ashley, Ashley. New houses, LLCs and no lawyers? Why am I thinking this 'divorce' suddenly looks a little hinky? Those two have always had a marriage of convenience and secrets. As Charrisse said: "I don't know. They tend to have... these stories." Karen still rules the roost IMO, to the extent that Giz is anxious to stay pals with her. I see the Grande Dame label continues to live rent-free in both Robyn and Charrisse's heads. Karen's impression of Ray with Katie in the preview left me LOL. Eddie is still adorable as hell. My question is, what will Wendy's evolution be this season? Primping or policing conversations? I see Gizelle isn't speaking to her for some reason. After what Gizelle tried to pull last year, she should be apologizing to Wendy. Amazing opening episode. So glad Potomac is back!

I saw through Kyle's act in S1 Ep1, when she taunted Kim with the fact that Kim's daughters were texting Kyle, and Kim didn't know what about. A cruel little jab to someone as emotionally insecure and lonely as Kim was. I think we viewres have all been waiting for a little comeuppance coming Sniper Kyle's way. But im not sure this painful sibling psychodrama is it. Is Kyle a fairweather friend? Has she sold out her sisters for TV and financial gain? Yes. But i'm not sure Kim or Kathy have been all that great to Kyle and her family either. Demanding endless blind loyalty. Demanding that she publicly deny sh!t they did or the serious problems that afflict them -- all so they can save face in the public eye. I remember in S2, Mauricio left Rick Hilton's real estate company to go it alone with some new financial backers. At the time, it reflected to me the Umamskys social-climbing opportunism, where even family gets cast aside. In hindsight, though, the fact that Rick refused to make Mauricio a partner must have been a blow. Maybe the Umanskys were looked down upon and treated dismissively within the family pecking order. I have to imagine that it wasn't just sheer greed which propelled them out of the Hilton orbit. Such a toxic, dysfunctional relationship where they have zero trust in each other. @carolineg Oh, I agree, Kathy has been burned. After reunion, I'm not sure she will want to return to RHOBH. Which is a shame in a way, because hello drama. That was hard to watch at times. To have video evidence of this behaviour is pretty shocking. I think she's dead woman walking on RHOP with this vid out there for the world to see.

@Errol I did not know that Inception Story about SON! I have been part of the SON community for a long time, was part of the previous SON board. I remember the spoof board soap we did called The SON Also Rises. Coming onto this site is part of my weekly routine, and I cannot imagine not checking in to catch up with familiar names and posts. Even though I don't watch Daytime regularly anymore. This is so much more than a Daytime board, though. People here celebrate television and pop culture in all its forms, scripted, unscripted, the talent (or not) in front of camera AND behind the scenes. The level of discussion is usually top-tier, very knowledgeable and often whip-smart. And funny, lol. So, Many Happy Returns, SON !

@DynamiteKiddo @carolineg That was a great discussion you had with each other articulating the different nuances of both Rinna -- and her history on this show -- and Kathy. I've had a lot of difficulty putting my feelings into words this season. Maybe it is because the show has exhausted me with what seems like 85 episodes this season. Maybe it is the repetitiveness of the Coven once again by any means necessary (and I do mean ANY MEANS) trying to destroy its designated target. These quotes stood out the most: In the finale episode -- as in so many episodes over the years -- I had a difficult time believing that Rinna cares about any of this. She oozes insincerity. But she is determined to troll the cast AND the audience, and if some of the mud she is throwing somehow sticks? So much the better (LVP never fully recovered from the dirt of Munchhausen-gate and S6, even though Rinna and Kyle were both up to their necks in that one). But now her scheming has turned on her. As you say, she has no credibility with anybody and her words have no weight -- and therefore no power to shock anymore. "Sold her soul for the show" is a phrase that comes up often on this thread -- @DaytimeFan has mentioned it a few times. I 100% feel that phrase. This soulless emptiness comes off Rinna in waves. In he early days, she was self-deprecating and peppy, but now she is akin to a glammed-up hologram projected on a wall. LOL yes the Munchhausen mention. Totally agree. Rinna's very first words on BH were to acknowledge her primary character trait, which was that she was a hustler -- hustling on every work opportunity coming her way and enjoying every one of those opportunities, big, small or embarrassing. Apart from a brief stint on the Days Peacock special, and putting her average offspring through copious amounts of plastic surgery, I have seen zero evidence of this hustle on RHOBH in recent seasons. That to me encapsulates how far she has gotten away from who she used to be as a person. Has she bought into her own hype or is she not-so-silently screaming to get out? Unclear. Oh Amen. I don't think Erika should be allowed to get away with her bad behaviour this season and lowkey targeting of Garcelle, amongst others. In the Reunion trailer, apart from a few quips (likely scripted by Mikey), she is noticeably silent and still, seemingly letting Rinna take the brunt of it. Will be interesting if their unholy alliance lasts the course. Dorit hissing at Kyle under her breath about not making a big deal with Rinna was a red flag to me. She is loyal to the Coven and trying to get Kyle to stick to the game-plan, which this season was always going to be about toppling Garcelle and Sutton.

The growing 'understanding' between Garcelle and Kyle has been one of the unexpected twists of this season. Kyle was totally present and emotionally invested in that convo -- for once not looking to upstage anyone or create a moment. The respect she had for Garcelle was clear. And Garcelle spoke with empathy as much for Kyle as for Kathy. Later, i noticed Sutton sitting close to Kyle, almost embracing her. All season long, Kyle seemed to be experiencing more joy with Sutton than with the FF4. The two harridans looked like they were trying out for a local backwater production of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane. At least Erika had the line about her life being a nuclear disaster. Rinna was horrific -- she really thought she did something special. Skipping around at random intervals, parroting Erika, trolling and gaslighting the other women. Saying Garcelle gives her attitude. I cannot wait for Kathy to annihilate her at reunion. Kathy namechecking Kim and LVP too! This Rinna reckoning has been a long time coming. What I would give to have Faye as a FOH or, better yet, a diamond holder. Even with no mic, she did not let Rinna get away with throwing insinuations out there. I noticed that Faye's other close friend (who Rinna repeatedly claims is her pal) Kris Jenner seems to be Team Kathy in all this. Kathy really called in her big name chums to back her up. Princess Grace, may she RIP, she of Monaco's most opulent and glamorous galas. I'm glad she was not around to see that limp little dinner given in her name. At least her foundation got a spot and name-check on an internationally watched show. @Gray Bunny i love Jamie Lee Curtis and can't wait to see her and her Activia next week. Perfectly timed with the release of Halloween Ends.