juniorz1

Eden was most certainly a bitch early on. I didn't start watching until late 1985 and by then, much of that had vanished. However, a couple of the readers of 'RTSB' sent me DVDs with old episodes on them and Eden was bitchy to say the least. Most of her venom was directed at Sophia when she returned- Eden didn't take kindly to her mother at first and with good reason. But it wasn't just because of her mother's abandonment; you could clearly see that Eden relished being the lady of the house in her mother's absence and wasn't about to be displaced. She also directed her bitchiness to Gina, though Gina was far more deserving of it than Sophia. I also remember her sort of playing games with Lionel when she first came to town, flirting with him and I think he didn't know who she was at the time. There was also no love lost between her & Mason.

I think they started softening her when they paired her with Cruz and while she did lose most of her bitchiness, she still acted sort of entitled and certainly privilidged. She also still could be very tough when the situation called for it- Eden certainly was no pushover. The playfulness she describes was definitely a major part of her as well.

She remains and will forever remain my favorite soap character of all time and that's a testament to Marcy. She and A Martinez WERE magic & I LOVE that he describes working with her as exactly that. It's always the first word that comes to my mind: A & Marcy as Cruz & Eden were, indeed, MAGIC. No other soap couple even comes close for me.

It's funny how A says that people around him who'd seen his acting for years told him that he was doing his best work with Marcy and this was only 1985. Most of the stuff they were doing up until then was fun, playful, romantic stuff and yet they still cited it as his best work. I bet they were blown away with the work he did in 1986, when Eden "died." He should have won the Emmy in 1987 for that stuff and in the interview you posted, Robin Mattson expresses how disappointed she and everyone was that he lost.

One final thing of note is how he says here that Marcy was the first actress who gave him the ability to genuinely laugh in front of the camera. On the SB video site that I believe is linked to in this thread, there's a section where A gives his thoughts on the scenes and he says the exact same thing. 25 years later.

I love them & miss them. I'm thankful to Barbara Walters and "The View" every day that we got that reunion between them. In the clip, you could see that there's still genuine affection between the two of them, even if they are no longer in one another's lives. Magic, simply magic.

Thanks so much for posting that Carl! Great read! I wonder what role she was offered on ATWT- I never knew she even auditioned for them, let alone landed a part. Anyone have any idea what part it could have been? I'm pretty sure she started on AMC in 1981, if that helps.

What years would this be? I have some Digests from the early/mid 80s so I could look through them for synopses.

Those would be the years of the Hogan/Sunny stuff yes. And Louise Gideon replaced Sherry Mathis in 1985, that I know. I'm just DYING to know why they recast. Thanks!

So no answers to my questions?

Aww, that's so sad. I really liked Michelle on SB and any role I saw her in thereafter. What a shame.

Also, why did TPTB recast the gorgeous and talented Sherry Mathis with Louan Gideon as Liza in the last year? I remember really liking Mathis in the part and never could warm to Gideon. I still don't get it.

I watched SFT with my grandmother when I was very young and then started watching it some on my own, circa 1982-1986. I always LOVED Sunny Adamson- she still remains one of my favorite soap heroines of all time and Marcia McCabe is forever endeared to me as an actress. I fell in love with Hogan & Sunny and hated that Patty & Quinn came on in those last couple years and they were instead paired with them, respectively (Hogan/Patty, Quinn/Sunny). I particularly hated the Patty & Hogan pairing and was deeply saddened that the show ended with Hogan's wedding to her, while I always believed he belonged with Sunny. I know I can't be the only viewer who felt that way, either.

But my question is this: I remember clearly that Hogan & Sunny worked together closely, I think as P.I.s or something to that effect, and that they often flirted. But were they ever paired as a full-fledged romantic couple or were they always just friends and coworkers? And if they were, why did they break up? Did the show ever address any jealousy on either Hogan's or Sunny's part in respect to their new pairings? I'd appreciate some answers and thanks in advance!

She still had her moments, though -- there's a great YouTube clip in which she berates Carmen Duncan's Iris for doubting Mac's integrity after his death.

Is this the clip you're talking about?

Awww, two of my favorite 80s guilty pleasures pictured- the divine Callan While and uber-sexy Peter Love (ex-Ric Castillo, Santa Barbara).

I thought it was on youtube & I indeed found it. Here, check it out. Joanna Cassidy also stars.

From the July 26, 1990 SOD. Did this pilot ever air? I guess it wasn't picked up as a series.

That pilot did air, yes. Funny thing was the show was cancelled before they even showed the pilot, I believe the morning of the day it was to air. Those were the days of networks airing pilots regardless of whether they bacame a series. As much as I didn't want Marcy to leave SB at the time & as relieved as I was, it's unfortunate that the show didn't get picked up. IMO, the pilot was quite good & it could have turned into a solid show, especially had it been placed on Monday nights as the article implies. Marcy's series that got picked up the following year, 'Palace Guard,' wasn't nearly as good and I didn't like how similar her character was to Eden, though I admit watching it every Friday it aired.

I'm a HUGE Marcy Walker fan (clearly! ) and never have been a big GL fan, save for Leonard Stabb's run as Hart. Can someone tell me why she didn't click on the show? Was it the writing, the character, Walker's performance? I tuned in some back then just for her but couldn't get into it because they kept pairing her with men who were, IMO, too old for her. I didn't care for her with Robert Newman's Josh (except for my own delicious revenge factor since we got stuck with Zimmer at SB in an almost-pairing with A Martinez) and I HATED her with Alan.

Do you think SB had a tough time with keeping or developing characters, or no more than any other soaps?

They certainly had a tough time keeping & developing characters and yes, certainly moreso than other soaps. Not to continue pimping my fanfic or anything, but one thing I did & am continuing to do with 'RTSB' is using the core characters that SB should have stuck with all along. Yes, we (mostly) always had the Capwells (CC, Sophia, Ted, Mason, Eden, Kelly, & Ted) and Cruz, Gina and Julia, but pretty much everyone else was interchangable & constantly in & out. Characters (that I'm using) like Keith, Mary, Mark McCormick, Augusta, Pamela, Elena, Warren, Santana, Kirk, Pearl and Lily should have been permanent fixtures. I'd also argue that Brick, Hayley, and Laken should have been kept around, but SB never quite knew what to do with them whenever they were there, which is probably why I haven't permanently been able to utitlize them.

Pamela & Elena were definitely the most glaring missed opportunities. Pamela was so built up by the time that she came on that there were TONS of things they could have done with her. Instead, they brought her on as a surprise witness in Cruz's trial, after having already killed off her wicked daughter Elena, and then threw her into the Who the hell Cares? Hal Clark (Scott's father) murder mystery. Y&R never would have made such a mistake- years of story could have been mined out of Pamela & Elena alone. Look no further than the 1991 dinner party sequence that I posted on youtube as proof of that- glorious episodes!!!

I'd make the same argument with Augusta, but Louise Sorel left of her own volition in 1986. She admittedly didn't understand daytime at that time (it was her first soap role) and when Augusta was backburnered, she took exception with it & decided to leave, not really realizing that the story would eventually come back to her. But I ended up LOVING all of Augusta's surprise reappearnces in town. I remember about pissing my pants when she was revealed as Anthony Tonnell's widow- the show really made you think it was just going to be some new character there for the purpose of a few weeks of story & that black veil came up & lo & behold- AUGUSTA!!! Back in the days when soaps still had the element of surprise.

What do you think SB did best, what were its strengths?

Obviously humor was a strength- SB did sophisticated wit & banter like no other. But that's just it- the dialogue on the show was just brilliant, even in the most dramatic of scenes. I've always felt that SB won so many writing Emmys because of their knack for crisp dialogue. They even won in 1991, when the show was well past its prime. From Mason's drunken Shakespearean sonnets to Eden & Cruz's vivid & honest descriptions of feelings & love to the outrageous lines utterred by Gina, Augusta, Pearl, Keith, and Lionel to the brilliance of Julia Wainright, they did dialogue like no soap before or since. And the thing about SB's humor is this- they were laughing with their audience, not at them (RE:SUN, PAS, and the pathetic soaps of today).

Another MAJOR strength that is not often mentioned is their courtroom sequences. SB did trials like no other. Witness the youtube clips I've posted of Cruz's trial as proof of that. When you have lawyers as smart as Julia going against others as smart but equally outrageous as Keith and Mason, not only did you have intelligently argued cases, but two interesting and contrasting points of view. I don't think there was ever a trial on SB where I absolutely, positively knew the verdict after the closing arguments, which is unusual for a soap. They also didn't have cheap stunts like most soaps do- HUGE revelations on witness stands, pregnancy pads revealed in court, etc... I was glued to my set any time SB had a storyline set in the courtroom. They did courtroom drama & intrigue just as well as, if not better than, shows like "LA Law," "The Practice," and "Law & Order."

Didn't Stacy Edward's character accidently kill another character named Amy Perkins? What was that character like?

Yes, Hayley accidentally caused the explosion at Brick's restaurant, Johnny's Place, that caused Amy Perkins death. Amy was never too prominently featured a character and, while I first got started watching SB in 1985, by 1986, Amy was barely seen so I didn't know her very well before she died. IIRC, though, she was the last surviving member of the Perkins family, one of SB's original core family. Since then, I have received DVDs from readers of "Return to Santa Barbara" and listeners to my old BTR talk show, "Talkin Santa Barbara!" that featured Amy. She was a pretty strong character and a played by a good actress too. She had that Demi Moore-esque raspy voice that I rather enjoy in many actresses.

My mom, to this day, swears SB's fall started with Mary's death and that the final nail in the coffin was when Eden went bye-bye circa 1991.

I'd have to sort of agree with your mom, as those were two of my favorite heroines on the soap. Eden's death was without a doubt, undeniably the final nail in SB's coffin. I'll never forgive the writers & producers for not even giving our Eden an exit. Marcy's last storyline was the split personality- we were treated to mostly Lisa in the end, with Eden struggling to come through. I believe Eden fell off the cliff in May 1991. Marcy came back in June with a God-awful brown wig as another personality, Suzanne Collier. It was ridiculous that neither Cruz nor Sophia recognized her when it was so clearly Eden. Her final scenes were played as another personality, that of her brother Channing, as she recreated Channing's shooting, the storyline that SB was founded on. It was just awful that what we thought at the time were her final scenes were her shooting her mother as Channing. No Eden resurfacing, no good bye to Cruz, nothing.

They did have a scene of her about a month later- it was uncredited & not in the soap mags that she'd be back. Cruz had found the real Suzanne & Eden was seen in the window watching them. Tears running down her face, she lipped the words "Good bye Cruz. I love you." She proceeded to leave her wedding ring on the window sill, which Cruz found & went after her. It wasn't much, but I was thankful for that one final glimpse of my beloved Eden & for her sorta good bye to Cruz.

What was everyone's impressions of Flame? I think she was in cahoots with Quinn then reformed and vanished?

Flame was the hotness. Her leather dominatrix wardrobe was the bomb as was her outta control hair. Roberta Bizeau just oozed sex & the character wasn't the same when she was recast (can't even remember the other actress's name). She was a true original. I remember Michael Logan suggested Bizeau when Y&R was recasting Phyllis. She would have been perfect, far better than the AWFUL Sandra Nelson. Who knows if fans would have even wanted Stafford back had Bizeau been cast.

And so is Sofia Coppola as Lorna. She's so clever and defensive and she swings that long curtain of black hair about like a witch. I really like her character -- and her name!

Cat, I ya, but it's been irking me- Sofia Coppola is the famous director of "Lost in Translation." Alicia Coppola plays Lorna.

And I too LOVE her. Thank GOD they brought her on as Heche was leaving. Lorna was the new Vicky for me. It's part of the reason I never could get into Robin Christopher as an actress until I saw her on OLTL- she was a terrible, inept recast for Coppola as Lorna. I understood the producers thinking, considering her work as Skye, but it just didn't work. IMO, Coppola was downright iconic in the role.

I'm not going to get anywhere near the end by tonight, although I have managed to get out of July 1991, so that's something. Near the end of this there's some flirting with Grant and Kathleen. Too bad that didn't go anywhere.

Did Julie Osburn only return for a limited run or did they let her go? If it's the latter, what a huge waste.

I have no idea what happened with Osburn but for the life of me, I'll never understand why they let her go. She was such a gem as Kathleen & a real bright spot on the show at the time. Was Frankie & Frankie/Cass really that popular?

Oh and by the way, it's 12:06 AM and I'm watching an AW episode on youtube.

***fingers crossed***

And he ACTED like Coster's son. His voice, his inflections, his mannersims, My GOD! He was perfectly cast & I cannot fathom why they let him go. Jack Wagner was utter sh!t when he came on. I sort of liked him initially- the rivalry with Mason, his pairing with Angela (Nina Arveson WAS & IS a goddess- why is she not on soaps today!?!). But then, they put him with BJ & it all went to hell.

GREAT post sungrey. Please, post in this thread more often!

If I'm not mistaken, Stacey Edwards (Hayley) was one of the early victims of focus groups. She was never my favorite character, but she easily could have been a run of the mill milquetoast victim. But Edwards gave her some strength that wasn't necessarily in the writing so the credit solely belongs to her. She wasn't my fave, but I was very sad the day she was hit by that car. And she was AWESOME in that rape storyline.

I also agree that killing off Harley Jane Kozak's Mary was a HUGE blunder. She was a fabulous actress and for my money (and this says ALOT coming from me), she rivaled Marcy's Eden as one of the great heroines on the show at the time. However, I truly think Mason still may have ended up paired with Julia and I think it would have been a DYNAMITE triangle that could have played out for years. It's probably why I'm currently writing that triangle in my SON blog, Return to Santa Barbara (shameless plug). Much unlike the sh!t Julia/Mason/Tori triangle we ended up with. It cracks me up to this day when I see in print that that triangle was one of the greats because the there was no clear choice & both had rooting value. Um, no, not in this viewer's (and I believe MANY others') eyes. Tori was a terrible character, always so desperate & clingy, first with Cruz and then with Mason. It didn't help that Kristen Meadows was just an okay actresss. One other thing I always found unbelievable is how many mags rated her as one of the most beautiful actresses in soaps. She even made it over Marcy, Judith, Nancy, Jane Rogers, and many other classic SB beauties in SOD's (formerly) annual Soaps Most Beautiful Actresses issue.

Check out Harley Jane's powerhouse final performance. One of the great classic death scenes of all time

So Lenore Kasdorf brought down the Dobsons. Wow...

Actually, from what I've read, the straw that broke the camel's back was the casting of a very pivotal role, Pamela Capwell. The Dobsons wanted Marj Dusay, while Bailey & I believe Pratt, fought for Samantha Eggar. Eggar was cast but never made it to air- she couldn't handle the amount of lines and work that went into a daytime drama. But then they went with Shirley Anne Field, who I personally really liked in the role. She was what I always imagined Pamela to be.

Ironically enough, Field also had problems with the workload & memorization of the lines so after all that, Marj Dusay was brought on to play Pamela. And, I may be wrong here, but I believe the Dobsons were already gone by that point.

Philece Sampler

tested for Gina (SB)

Oh wow, thank GOD that didn't happen. She would have made an awful Gina & from what I hear, was a real PILL to work with, especially on DAYS.

Rena Sofer would have been a great choice for Amanda Cory.

Totally disagree with that- I think she would have been all wrong for the role. I actually could see her more as Vicky.

RETURN TO SANTA BARBARA RETURNS TONIGHT!!!!

:D

I disagree with your assessment of Carrington's Kelly Elsa, with all due respect. I did not find her to be a Mini-Eden at all- she was still very much Princess Kelly to me, CC's "kitten." And, while I know it's an unpopular opinion, I LOVED Kelly's rivalry with Eden at that time, partly because I was very anti-Robert/Eden. Eden wanted to have her cake & eat it too with Robert & Cruz and I thought Kelly's venom was justified. It helped that Carrington was surprisingly adept at playing bitchy. Kelly developed her backbone again under Garland, which was lost in the McArthur transition. I'll always adore her and liked her every bit as much as I did Robin Wright in the part.

To answer your question Carl, no, I have yet to find one single fan (literally) that liked the Kelly/Cruz pairing. It was just all kinds of wrong & Davidson shared ZERO chemistry with A Martinez, despite what she may have gone around telling the press. Plus, Eileen just wasn't right for the part.

I wish the clip were on youtube because I won't be able to do it justice but when Cruz left town to go on the run & make it seem like he killed Frank Goodman to spare insta-daughter BJ, Kelly met him at the airport runway & begged him to stay. As his plane began taking off, Kelly ran down the runway screeching, crying, and screaming "CRUUUUUZZZZ! NOOOOO!! PLEASSSSE! CRUUUZZZ" and Davidson was a hot mess. I don't know how she was on Y&R back in the day, but when she was on SB, Eileen was not only a terrible Kelly, but a terrible, TERRIBLE actress. That sequence just epitomized her awfulness.

http://santabarbara-online.com/Kellyn4-67.jpg

Oops. I meant 1990 -- the issue came out in early 1991.

SOD got it wrong then, IMO. 1990 was the year that Garland became a breakout star IMO! I'll never understand the soap press & their unimaginative, overly critical take on CG's Kelly. She was pretty much UNIVERSALLY LOVED by the fans! Not an easy task, since Robin Wright was so identified with the role.

And then, Eileen Davidson comes on & I cannot tell you how many magazines literally said "Kelly's IQ just JUMPED 50 points!"

Yea, that's when Kelly suddenly became obsessed with Cruz, polyester pantsuits, black thick yet plucked(!?) eyebrows, ridiculous hats that belonged on a 15 year old with no sense of style, HUGE hoop earrings, polka dots, greasy hair, and a hard, oily, tanned face.

I remember the Dobsons saying that part of the reason for the recast was because Kelly had been married 4 times at that point & they wanted it to show more on her face.

If they meant oily buildup, hard lines, thicker eyebrows, bigger teeth, bright red lips, and a beauty mark large enough to considered Queen of the Mole People, then well done.

Yes, I HATED Eileen then and it took me a LONNNNNNNG time to come around to her.

And I'm tellin ya, Eileen is FAR more beautiful in 2010 than she was in 1991 and she's AGED 19 years! They say blondes don't age gracefully......well, apparently, bottle blondes do!

I too loved Todd McKee and he also had a nice story with Trucua cast before she went to Y&R.

His replacement was Michael Brainard (ex Joey Martin from AMC)and he was HOT too and a good actor.

I LOVED Brainard & thought he did a great job making Ted his own. I actually preferred his version. His chemistry with Nina Arveson was the main thing that kept me watching during SB's final year. And of course, they didn't end up together. Thanks Rauch & Long.