EricMontreal22

Even at 14 I realized Models Inc was pretty crap (Charles Pratt's first show as creator?) though I think I watched it all, oddly probably more closely than I did Melrose at the time. (I did like Titans though so take that for what it's worth). I remember Pacific Palisades having potential (Spelling seemed to want to make it his version of Knots) but just some poor writing and leads (Coke hunk Lucky V shoulda never tried acting). SOO cool to see some Emerald Point NAS online!! So I knw the Shapiro's wrote this, but I recently read the Dobsons were involved in at least some epsodes too (I woulda thought they'd be busy with Santa Barbara). Hrmmm Ooh Charles Frank from AMC and a young Sela Ward Speaking of, I've only seen the first two years of Dynasty--I know most think it hit its stride in Season en famed soap scribes the Pollocks came in and starte doing the major plotting instead of the Shapiros--their plan seeming to be to take every daytime soap cliche and times it by 100 for all its camp worth. I know they helped with Colbys too--did they write every season of Dynasty after 2 or did they leave at some point? (If everyone seems tot hink seasons 4-8 are crap?) I wish I had seen pasadena, I know critics loved it (it doesn't seem to even have clips online) and it's intriguing that it was created by filmaker Mike White of all people. Like Titans, it seems like it just came a few years too early for the zeitgeist. As to the short lived soaps, and Syklph's question, I've mentioned I'd most like to see the other two 80s Lorimar soaps--Berrenger's and especially Secrets of Midland Heights which David Jacobs wrote (he seems to have left when it was reworked as King's Crossing). Schemering says the main reason Midland Heights flopped was timing--it was a raunchy teen soap that aired at 10 on Saturdays, when none of its audience would be home. I could see Sydney Sheldon helping with a primetime OTT soap, but not Jackie Collins--I agree with JamesF about her. (Of course those kinds of authors can't always make the switch anyway--think of the disastrous attempt to get Harold Robbins to make a serial with the mega flop The Survivors)

+1 Trust me JP, I tend to sympathize with the troubled ones, but still if in the past two months or so this guy had mercilessly killed person after person (OK she didn't know about all of them, but), I wouldn't go up and hug him,. And I just hope they don't kill Sterling off as soon as we get to know him, which has been the pattern lately lol

Wow! How very cool I was looking online at a book, Dallas: The Complete Story of the World's Favorite Prime-time Soap by Barbara Curran--you can read sample pages at amazon. (It actually looks worth buying for a trivia obsessed person like me). Anyway Jacobs writes the introduction and he's quite candid about not having much to do with Dallas after the first 8 episodes--he took off for Knots, his first love and creation (I wonder if Dallas fans ever complain that Jacobs abandoned them for Knots the way OLTL fans complain about AMC and Agnes Nixon ). It sounds like he still had some input--more like a consultant--you can read his whole intro on Amazon. He doe smention that there are a number of urban legends about Dallas that aren't true--a big one being that it wasn't meant to be a serial originally--the plan was always to start off with more self contained episodes (a technique he learned from Family) and then to go into a full on serial--I assume with Knots too.

Williamson said the triangle would be more focused in season 2. Still, I don't think she shoulda hugged him

No worries--I asked you to find them and you did Yeah it's always a bit scary to see how good some of these shows can be and then quickly how bad (LOL of course had an even rockier 70s)

It's just too much--I agree. He's been, week after week, a cold blooded killer. Would she really feel so connected and hug him just because he's sad about Katherine maybe abandoning him? I mean... Some have compared it to Sookie and Eric on True Blood but that's been going at a much more understandable speed (with much more understandable resistance from Sookie than Elsa shows...)

It always surprises me how popular Loving was overseas--I used to think it was kinda an urban myth till my South African friend confirmed that EVERYONE he knew watched it there and the media was familiar with it enough to mention Ava and Trish on the news, etc... I know it was big in France too and Italy for nearly its entire run.

Ah sorry Sylph, I thought you meant you watched it during that period--which surprised me. I mis-read LOL Agnes' run sounds all and all odd--maybe when Marland left she felt it wasn't working and decided to restructure it? Elsa, tell me mopre about Dolly--was she one of Agnes' over the top Dickensian caricatures (like early Opal, Billy Clyde Tuggle, etc) or? I know Agnes Nixon's main success was bringing in the Sowolsky's and some of the romantic pairings (I think Trish and Steve being a big one)--soap press at the time often mentioned the success of that family, and in one of the Paley Center videos with Agnes from 1987, ALL of the Loving related questions from the audience are about them. Of course, typical of Loving, by the time Agnes left as HW the family was largely gone due to the popular actors leaving, etc, (I think one of them left to do a sitcom with Mary Tyler Moore or something). Interestingly when Agnes Nixon returned as HW in '94 she did another bizarre gothic storyline (Dante, played by Thom Christopher and his "pet" who turned out to be Curtis in a cage, LOL). Maybe Agnes wasn't sure of her vision for Loving either... (though I loved her 10 or so months back on the show).

HAHA just found--terrific stuff, I admit far more compelling than I've ever found anythign Search related from the 70s on, before. Maybe I should re-evaluate the show lol. What year was this? 1976? That's crazy (and I find the death much more shocking than Stacey's death on OLTL last week ) Page one says that Peggy O'Shea was HW in 1976--I love her work on OLTL, I guess she joined OLTL's writing team pretty much right after she left Search. And Robert J Shaw came soon after who I know people disliked at Search, but was responsible for some of the best scripts on Peyton Place early on...

Are there any clips of Fairchild on the show? Yeah, I've read, and from the 1950s and 60s episodes I've seen, it seems true, how Roy Winsor's Search and Love of Life were in many ways closer to the radio soaps--a narrower focus on one theme and small set of characters, etc (he opened that up some for his much more melodrama filled Secret Storm)--as opposed to Irna Phillips' soaps. It's great to read your thoughts and memories on the shows. I ahte to speak ill of someone who passed away from a harsh battle with cancer, (even if she inflicted Real World and Road Rules on us), but I wonder why Mary Ellis Bunim had such a long run as an EP after Search--I know some of her era on Loving which was pretty typically lacking in any real concept of vision.

Thanks--I was just going by the list on page one of this thread, I admit I really liked Walsh's era at Loving, even if I think that's not a very popular opinion (when Agnes Nixon took over in 1994 though I liked it even more--I know Taggert and Guza wer ein between) and I would actually prefer if she had been chosen to be AMC's new HW instead of Swajeski and DK (especially if the rumours of Broderick remaining on the staff are true), but maybe she no longer wants to HW...

Did you see it? I never knew you watched Loving... It sounds cheezy on paper though I've heard it's a fave of Agnes' herself (which might be reason enough for you not to like it ). I didn't mean to imply the snake was lame, just that I've heard various things about how open to interpretation the actual supernatural/religious element was (if you saw him turn into a snake or if afte rhis death you just happened to see a snake, etc)

Harding Lemay (April 1981 – July 1981)

Just saw the clip--was Sammy Davis Jr a watcher of EVERY soap? LOL I hate to hear that my soap bible, Schemering's Encyclopedia is riddled with errors, but that makes sense re syndication. But if the deal with Secret Storm fell through last minute, there couldn't have been much hope for LOL.

LOL I don't think anyone has--we discuss a lot on one of the pages in this thread and it all seems to be second hand info, sadly... (like just how vague it was if he turned into a snake, for instance )

Oh dear, she drives me up the wall--ever since L Word (I appreciate that she's a Canadian actress who has worked with many of our best local filmakers, don't get me wrong, and continues to). Then again, maybe I could get behind her being an annoying vamp or something...

He looks so much like his grandpa, it's scary... Yeah, while maybe the show isn't quite the huge improvement on the books as True Blood is on its source, the Sookie Stackhouse books--it IS a huge improvement. Kevin Williamson and Julie Plec (sp?) should be proud. Honestly, I haven't liked something he's had his name on this much since Scream 2. I posted in this thread in the Fall and thought I was the only one here watching, glad I was wrong. The show has become a great, moody, teen soap. My one complaint... (Besides these hiatuses) is they seem to kill off so many potentially interesting characters--and QUICKLY. At first this was refreshing--anyone could die, almost. But now whenever you see a new character, like Sean Faris (who granted I'm no huge fan of) or Gina Tores, or nearly anyone it seems, they're going to be killed if not that episode, than the next... Even the ridiculously young grandma witch Jasmine Guy played I thought could have stuck around one or twomore eps--we barely got any real scenes with her. And that was one of my small complaints with the last episode... Elena goes up and HUGS Damon? Really??? Wha?? I mean... I get she seesthe softer side of him, bla bla, but he has over and over again killed people basically in front of her, put her brother and best friend in danger, etc. I don't buy that--not this quickly.

This was in the NYTimes, but seems to be a syndicated piece. UK Soap 'EastEnders' Celebrates 25 Years of Misery Sign in to Recommend By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: February 19, 2010 Filed at 6:42 p.m. ET LONDON (AP) -- Someone killed Archie Mitchell, bludgeoning the pub landlord with the bust of Queen Victoria that stood proudly atop his bar. Millions of Britons wanted to know who did it; thousands placed bets. Mitchell was a character in the soap opera ''EastEnders,'' which marked its 25th birthday Friday with a live episode, when up to 15 million viewers tuned in to learn Stacey Slater had murdered him in revenge for raping her. The BBC said even the actor playing the killer did not know whodunit until half an hour before the live transmission. The cast rehearsed 10 possible endings as it prepared for a complex broadcast involving 51 actors, 36 camera operators and 13 makeup artists. British soaps have a special place in the nation's heart, attracting huge ratings and generating political debate, despite being gritty, unglamorous and routinely derided by cultural commentators. ''American soaps are about watching beautiful people suffer,'' said Tim Teeman, arts editor of The Times of London newspaper and a big soap fan. ''We like to watch ugly people suffer.'' ''EastEnders'' was launched by the BBC in 1985 as a cockney rival to the northern English soap ''Coronation Street,'' which is marking its 50th birthday this year. ''EastEnders'' is set in Albert Square, a TV version of a typical working-class London district. There's a Tube station, Victorian houses, a street market, a cafe, a laundromat and a pub, the Queen Victoria, that serves as the center of community life. The Queen Vic is where the show's first great villain, ''Dirty'' Den Watts, served his wife Angie with divorce papers at Christmas 1986 after she had lied about having terminal cancer -- an event watched by 30 million people, more than half the British population. More recently, it is where Archie met his demise -- the 76th ''EastEnders'' character to die. Past residents of Albert Square have been shot, stabbed, strangled, impaled, burnt to death and run over. A study in the British Medical Journal once concluded that a soap character was a more dangerous role than bomb disposal expert, steeplejack or Formula One race car driver. Unlike their American counterparts, British soaps are broadcast in the evening, and have a strikingly earthy tone. ''EastEnders'' is a distinctive mix of violence, implausible plots -- long-lost children pop up regularly, and more than one character has come back from the dead -- and finely observed everyday detail. Jamie Medhurst, a lecturer in film and television at Aberystwyth University, said British soaps emerged from a tradition of social realism, and still have one foot rooted in that world. ''They have to keep within the bounds of realism,'' he said. ''The audiences have to be able to see something of their own lives.'' The stars, too, are expected to remain down-to-earth. Gillian Taylforth, who starred on ''EastEnders'' for 15 years, said her family had been less than thrilled to learn she had got a part in a soap. ''I said: 'I've got this fantastic new job,''' she told the BBC on Friday. ''And my mum and dad went: 'Oh,' and their faces dropped ... They said: 'We thought you were going to tell us you'd got engaged.''' British soaps have fans in high places -- Prince Charles' wife, Camilla, recently expressed a desire for a walk-on part in ''Coronation Street.'' But some politicians remain unconvinced of their worth. Two Conservative lawmakers squared off this week on whether ''EastEnders'' is good for society. The party's culture spokesman, Jeremy Hunt, wished the show happy 25th birthday and praised it for raising difficult social issues. But children's spokesman Tim Loughton said it perpetuated damaging stereotypes. ''Social workers are always caricatured as sandal-wearing interferers; the police as pretty dim and flat-footed and teachers as snotty busybodies,'' he wrote on a Conservative blog. Supporters argue that ''EastEnders'' takes on serious social issues, from teen pregnancy to drug abuse, racism and homophobia, and has reflected -- and at times pushed -- changes in British society. The show recently saw its first Muslim wedding, when Syed Masood married his fiancee Amira in a lavish ceremony -- to the dismay of his secret boyfriend, Christian. Some had predicted there would be a negative reaction to a gay Muslim character, but the story line has been welcomed by viewers, with many fans rooting for Syed and Christian's romance to succeed. ''In the beginning soaps were leading public opinion, and that's why they were so shocking,'' Teeman said. ''Now public opinion is ahead of them, so you keep having to up the ante. You can no longer just have a gay couple. You have a gay couple who are separated by religion, basically. And the audience is on their side, 100 percent.'' ------ On the Net: http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/twentyfive/

TELEVISION; Black Family Shares Spotlight in a New Soap Opera By MIMI TORCHIN; Mimi Torchin is a New York-based writer who frequently reports on soap operas. Published: March 26, 1989 ''Two families, three lifetimes. Daytime drama with a difference. Black and white - in color!'' The on-air promotional spots for NBC's forthcoming''Generations'' drive their message home with fast cuts and throbbing percussion. They suggest that the new soap opera, which will make its debut in the New York metropolitan area tomorrow afternoon from 12:30 to 1 on Channel 4, has something novel to offer fans of the genre: ''Generations'' will introduce daytime television's first black family as a central focus into what has up to now been a conspicuously white-dominated world. There is more riding on ''Generations,'' however, than merely an attempt to broaden the ethnic demographics within the soap-opera milieu. The network is also hopeful of broadening its profit margin during the advertising-rich daytime hours when viewer loyalty has traditionally been strong. Set in Chicago and its suburbs, ''Generations'' centers on three generations of two families, one black and one white. Many years ago, the matriarch of the black family was the housekeeper for the white family; today, grandchildren from both families attend college together. The cast, which features several established performers, is headed by Taurean Blacque, formerly Detective Neal Washington of ''Hill Street Blues,'' who plays a self-made businessman. For more than two decades, blacks have played a visible, if somewhat peripheral role in daytime dramas. When ABC's ''One Life to Live'' had its premiere in 1968, a major story line centered around Carla Gray, a light-skinned black woman who led a double life: as a black woman and as a black ''passing'' for white. She carried on simultaneous romances with a white doctor and a black intern. Pretty daring stuff for 1968. But soaps have never been afraid to tackle controversial subject matter, racial or otherwise, even if often with sugar coating. Currently, more than half of the 11 soap operas on the networks feature story lines with prominent black characters. But black characters in soap operas, numerous as they are, generally exist in a kind of vacuum. They arrive in town, have a brief moment in the sun (which in soap operas can mean several months) as part of a specific story line, then fade into the background or disappear as suddenly as they came. Occasionally, the character becomes a participant in the soap opera's everyday life. Another black character may be introduced as a love interest, and once in a while a family member or two is also introduced. Blacks on soap operas tend to be police officers, doctors, entertainers, lawyers or, at the other end of the spectrum, trusted family retainers who are little more than stereotypes. So, what will differentiate ''Generations'' from already established soaps that feature major black characters? And what will tempt viewers to watch ''Generations'' instead of the primary competition in its time slot, CBS's No. 1-rated ''Young and the Restless''? Sally Sussman, the creator, head writer and executive producer of the new contender and a former writer for ''The Young and the Restless,'' explains: ''The difference is we're starting from scratch with a core family who happens to be black. That enables us to give them a credibility and importance, a history, that most blacks on daytime don't have. ''I wanted to show the problems and the conflicts of people who are a reflection of the times they were brought up in. The story simply evolved from my desire to portray life in the 90's in a big city. That means blacks and whites living together in a realistic way.'' In that respect, ''Generations'' will, indeed, be attempting something different. But not without hardheaded commercial considerations. In 1988, according to an A. C. Nielsen report, ''Television Viewing Among Blacks,'' 12.7 percent of all black households with television sets watched soap operas, as opposed to 6.3 percent of ''all others.'' That means, proportionally, that more than twice as many black households are tuned in to the soap operas. Although only roughly 10 million of the 88.6 million TV households in America in 1988 were black, the numbers are still noteworthy. Furthermore, comparison with the figures for the 1985 survey (the first year it was compiled) reveals that while soap-opera viewership among ''all others'' decreased in 1988, it increased among black viewers. But ''Generations'' is entering the once astoundingly profitable daytime arena in a less-than-favorable climate of declining audiences, steadily falling advertising revenues and rising production costs. Five years ago, the average half-hour episode of a soap opera cost between $200,000 and $250,000 to produce; today, that figure is close to $400,000. Additionally, although NBC is top dog during prime time, it is the third-rated network during the day (10 A.M. to 4 P.M., Monday through Friday). That means ''Generations'' won't benefit from the traditional pattern of soap-opera viewing, which is by network, rather than specific show. To appreciate why NBC is willing to risk millions of dollars on a new daytime drama in the face of these odds, it is necessary to understand the special nature of soap operas and the circumstances behind the waning profits. An ingenious symbiosis of intimate and frequently mundane details of daily life and plots laced with unbelievable flights of fancy and much dramatic license, the soap opera indulges the eavesdropper in most viewers. Five days a week, year in and year out, the viewer is the fly on the wall in these characters' lives. That is why a soap-opera fan is frequently loyal for life; thanks to the proliferation of the VCR, even aficionados with jobs outside the home can keep up with their ''stories,'' as they are known to the faithful. As for daytime's loss of viewers, the biggest decline is between 10 A.M. and 12:30 P.M., a time period in which the networks offer primarily game shows and talk shows to their affiliate stations. On the other hand, from 12:30 to 4 P.M., the time when soap operas are shown, viewership continues, with a few exceptions, to be high. Indeed, soap operas remain the bulwark against a rising tide of financial difficulties on daytime. ''The soaps are still the networks' best defense against multiple competitors in daytime,'' says Brian Frons, NBC's vice president of daytime programming. ''Local stations around the country can buy other game shows and talk shows from syndication, but only network affiliates have soap operas - and that's the unique franchise we offer. They still hold their audience extremely well. There's a higher 'brand loyalty,' if you will, to soap operas than to probably any other form of television.'' Three major factors account for the networks' loss of profits in daytime. First, the game shows - once a font of profitability - have, as a group, lost some of their attraction to both viewers and advertisers and are no longer the moneymakers they once were. Second, the advent of the 15-second commercial has been a heavy blow to the networks. ''Advertisers feel they can buy a 15-second commercial and it will have about 75 percent of the effectiveness of a 30-second spot,'' says Mr. Frons. ''They either don't reinvest the savings in daytime or don't spend them at all.'' The third factor is that many advertisers have bypassed network programming - except for daytime dramas - in favor of the syndicated market where they can buy more air time for their money. Mr. Frons says, ''The bulk of the money [ on daytime ] is really coming from the soaps. They deliver the 18-to-49-year-old women's group, which is the key target audience. Advertisers seem to view the soaps as a better environment for their spots.'' Thus, a new soap opera would seem the logical way to improve the financial side of NBC's daytime schedule. The network jettisons unprofitable game shows (''Sale of the Century'' and ''Super Password'') and launches a new soap opera, which, if it catches on, can generate a lot of money. The unknown in this equation is whether ''Generations'' is a show that viewers will embrace. NBC is gambling a great deal that it is. In a new era of network cost-cutting and penny-pinching, NBC, now owned by General Electric, is spending a million dollars just to promote the launch of ''Generations.'' The network has also turned over to its affiliate stations the half-hour that begins at noon, a time slot in which stations frequently present inexpensively produced local newscasts. To further encourage affiliates to carry the new daytime drama, NBC is offering a ''double feed,'' which means that stations can show ''Generations'' either at 12 or 12:30, using the other half-hour any way they choose. In other words, NBC is doing everything it can to give this serial a chance to succeed. Despite all the emphasis on a single racial group, NBC is confident it will not alienate a significant portion of those multitudinous ''all others'' out there in the daytime audience. ''I hope - I believe the country is beyond that,'' says Mr. Frons. ''The most popular family on television [ ''The Cosby Show'' ] is black. Look at the success of 'Roots' - and that was 12 years ago. I think 'Generations' will be successful if black audiences say, 'I relate to those people. They remind me of my family.' It will be successful if white audiences can relate to these characters simply as people with flaws and virtues. If viewers, regardless of color, don't like these characters, they won't watch them and the show will fail.'' Ms. Sussman is equally pragmatic: ''We're in the business of drama here, not social reformation. I'm not out to change the world. I want to entertain people and captivate them with our characters. What makes people tune in to a soap? Compelling characters, romance and good stories with strong emotional payoffs. Black or white, that's what the daytime audience wants to see - and that's what we're going to give them. In the end, it's all a crapshoot.'' Fans Mourn Loss of an Interracial Soap Opera By C. GERALD FRASER Published: March 5, 1991 Washed out by low ratings, television's first interracial soap opera devoted to the adventures and misadventures of black and white families, "Generations," has left behind a group of disappointed viewers, many of them black professionals, still yearning to tune in tomorrow. After broadcasting 407 episodes, NBC took "Generations" off the air at the end of January. It had lasted for 13 months. Describing the serial in 1989, as it was about to go on, the network said that it was "a contemporary daytime drama set in Chicago" and that it centered "on the relationships of two families -- one white, the Whitmores; one black, the Marshalls -- whose lives have been linked for generations." Now it is gone for good. An NBC spokesman, Rob Maynor, said, "If it doesn't deliver, it doesn't stay on the air." The cancellation annoyed a number of the show's regular viewers. One New Jersey working couple taped the 30-minute show daily for evening viewing. They were perturbed "on the day of the final segment to find out that most of it was superseded by a war bulletin, leaving a seemingly inexplicable ending and adding insult to injury." 'It Was Different' The cancellation also upset Marsha Hunt, a Philadelphia novelist. "It was a very good show," she said in a telephone interview. "It was different. The story line was not who's sleeping with whom. It showed a real relationship between the two women." Ms. Hunt did not rest on her disappointment. "I don't sit back," she said. "When people say blacks don't write in, I'm not one of them. When they say blacks don't call in, I'm not one of them." She wrote, she called and she organized "The Coalition to Save 'Generations.' " She said she had 12 people in 12 states "running groups" that had sent "around a thousand" save-"Generations" letters to local stations, NBC, prospective syndicators and PBS, which they view as a potential broadcaster of the serial. Ms. Hunt voiced several complaints, echoed in the letters. One was that the serial had been broadcast in poor time slots. In New York, it came on at 12:30 P.M., opposite the No. 1 soap, "The Young and the Restless." In some cities, Ms. Hunt said, "Generations" came on at 2:30 A.M. She also said that the soap had not been given enough time on the air to develop an audience. Were Ratings Accurate? She questioned whether the show's low Nielsen ratings accurately reflected the number of viewers. "There are few Nielsen boxes in homes in minority communities," she said. A Nielsen Media Research vice president, Jack Loftus, said yesterday that 11 percent of households in the Nielsen population sample are black. Mr. Maynor, the NBC spokesman, said the network had dropped "Generations" "because it didn't get the size of audience we wanted." "We wanted more than we had," he continued. "It was the lowest-rated soap opera on the air. It had the smallest audience, it didn't deliver for advertisers and it wasn't attractive to affiliates." Consequently, he said, the network does not intend to revive the show. Creator of the Show Sally Sussman, a writer who had received two Emmy award nominations as a member of the writing staff of "The Young and the Restless," created "Generations," serving as both its executive producer and head writer. In a telephone interview, she said, "I came up with the idea four years ago and sold it to NBC to create the first racially balanced show." She said it had been well received . "Most shows are given more than two years to find an audience," she said. "The nature of the soap opera business is that it takes two years to find itself and find an audience. The current climate at NBC, in terms of economics, did not lend itself to continuing the show. It was expensive to produce and had a soft advertising market. And they decided to cancel. It was a valid reason from their perspective, but I think it was short-sighted." In New York, the editor in chief of Soap Opera Weekly, Mimi Torchin, agreed. "It was intelligent and fast moving," she said. "A new show always gets off to a slow start. They're always terrible in the beginning. Until you are in these people's lives, know the background, it's hard to get involved, until you care about them." The probationary period for most serials is, she agreed, usually two years. For example, she said, NBC dropped "Texas" only after 28 months. She also cited "Loving" and "Santa Barbara" as two long-running soaps that have never achieved high ratings. Ms. Torchin, speaking of the "Generations" cancellation, said: "Blacks are only 11 percent of the total viewing audience, and there was not enough of a black audience to watch it." She added: "It was known as 'the black soap' in the heartland. There's still a lot of racism and whether it was racism per se, there was resistance."

So Rita Lakin helped create Flamingo Road--the fairly well known mystery author? Who also wrote on the original 60s Peyton Place, and the Next Generation TV movie, Dynasty, etc?

Since lately I've been especially interested in the David Jacobs/Lorimar soaps, I have to ask, just how involved was he? I know he worked at Family (which led to a few primetime soap writers, but also led to the Herskovitz/Zwick domestic dramas like thirtysomething. As I've said on here ad nauseum I wouldn't quite classify them as primetime soaps--though they're some of my all time fave shows, so it's interesting that in a way Family, a show I'malways tempted tobuy on DVD but have not seen yet, seemed to kinda mix these genres--though I know it wasn't truly a serial). And then he submitted a story based around the concept of Scenes from a Marriage, the network said they wanted a drama set in the south, he did Dallas, left after overseeing 8 episodes and repitched his original idea as a spin off and stayed at Knots Landing at least for a little while in some capacity--it seems Knots was his true baby, not Dallas. Yet, I don't think anyone ever classifies him as a headwriter/show runner? He also was an exec producer on MidlandHeights, and Berrenger's as has been mentioned as well as some other non soaps(the Dr Quinn forerunner, Paradise). Anyway, in the late 90s Ann Margaret stared in a show by him that has been called both Homestead and Four Corners. It ran as a tv movie and for four episodes--does anyone remember this? Was it a primetime soap or something diff? For a show that ran so recently, it seems odd so little exists on it. The other show he helped create in the early 80s was a late night soap--I think CBS aired it Friday nights at 11:35 (premiering with an hour episode, followed by 35 minute episodes). Behind the Screen, it took place backstage of a soap opera, and Michele Lee made an appearance as herself. This is the only LATE night network soap I can think of (RIP 13 Bourbon St), and ran from late 1981 through to 1982. Does anyone have ANY memory of this? I can't find any clips or photographs and it fascinates me.

10 episodes of UK QAF is all it ran (the first series was 8, 35 minute episodes--dunno why the odd time length--Series two was one movie, or two 50 minute episodes) I belong to imdb,but I don't pay, but I didn't know there was some content you could view--is this new? *confused* I dunno, I thought Sydney was still in many ways a throwback to those 80s primetime bitch/goddess characters. Played even bigger might have not worked--that said I liked Tracey/Jane Eliot in the role much more I almost hate to say--but part of that is by the time she essentially replaced Sydney, The City had finally found its rhythm and was better as a whole.

It sure did... (But I loved her on CPW)

The people at Falcon's Crest, Central Park West and Nip/Tuck didn't seem to think so LOL I'm easy either way I created that Peyton Place thread for instance, simply cuz I didn't think all fans wouldnecesarily see this thread.

There's an old thread in canceled soaps for Dynasty and Knots but they have zero to no posts in them, LOL. I'm sure it's fine to discuss them here