EricMontreal22

I love both of those, though it's hard to pick between the two Express Yourselves from each tour. I know she burned her bridges apparently with Nicki Harris after the Drowned World tour, but I wouldn't mind seeing Donna DeLory back as a backup singer on this new tour--I missed her (*among other things) during Sticky and Sweet. For Confessions our seats were right at the part of the stage Donna was often at when Madonna would be elsewhere, and she really was a great performer in her own way. I also find it kinda funny how Madonna largely poipularized those head mics for dance heavy shows--but then (and partly due to Madonna herself, as she did lip synch more back then, and used them for completely lip synched TV appearances) they became so connected in people's heads with lip synching (also thanks to Janet, who did it much more), that now most performers have gone back to hand mikes, even when they do heavy choreography, as a sort of proof that they're singing live, including Madonna... My only problem with Keep it Together (such an underated/forgotten single) is they really should have given Bob Fosse some credit for the rip off. Then again, Paula and Beyonce never have, and at least Madonna did do some (minor) work with him, so...

Yes, this aired oddly in Canada too on a Quebecois station (I say oddly because we also got the HBO, France one but some months later since Canada didn't have HBO Canada back then).

I certainly agree with that. I do think Girlie Show is the more "theatrically" satisfying overall--the segues between acts, for instance, were much better done--, but there's no doubt that Blonde Ambition broke new ground (even if artists including Kate Bush and Bowie had done some majorly staged tours before then, they didn't quite make the same mainstream impact), and perhaps has some of the more memorable sequences (aside from that Dancing with the Stars judge sliding down a pole topless with Girlie Show of course ). I thought there was more to the Blonde Ambition thing. I know Guy claimed online last year that a release of it was in the planning stages. I also know many fans are hoping they can somehow get all the footage filmed of the concert for Truth or Dare and edit it together, as many think that's the best filmed version, though I can't see them going through that trouble... I know a different date, from the Japanese leg was released in Japan though again I think it's tied into the laser disc deal--and then in Canada and some of Europe we got yet another date that has a lot of mishaps, and Madonna probably doesn't want released again--that aired on TV but I have an old video tape of most of it I recorded (I missed the beginning). Ah well, I guess it'll pop up eventually. The situation with ReInvention is odder--I know CBS was going to air it but then it fell through, though the concert edit has popped up in full online...

As I think they did for a lotof the Todd story--or at least hoping that people had vague and fuzzy memories that could easily be pitched into a different direction.

I forgot all about Carol and the previous rape.

She needs ot get her [!@#$%^&*] together and release Blonde Ambition to DVD--I know they keep promising it, and I have a bootleg of the DVD but... (of course Reinvention Tour is also sitting, all edited for DVD release, with nothing there--maybe she's waiting for a break in her career). I see that her old label, through Rhino is releasing a box set of all her major albums (so exclusing compilations, I'm Breathless and soundtracks--which means no Vogue or other major tunes) this month to capitolize on her promo I imagine. It's not a bad deal--$50 or so for all the albums in a box set, in individual paper sleevs, but I have them anyway I agree that I would love to see her work with Chris again--I love both Blonde Ambition and Girlie Show. I'm a bit surprised he never worked on any other concert tours. And yes of course she won't be working with him anytime soon again lol. As I said earlier in this thread, I think Jamie King who she's worked with ever since is getting a bit tired--at least Sticky and Sweet seemed to show that--besides which now nearly every pop star works with him, a change could be good... But I guess not this time around (I still have high hopes for this tour, regardless)

They have yeah. The common consensus seems to be that the two singles so far aren't the best tracks on the album, and the dance stuff and a few of the ballads have been getting some praise.

Great promo--the week that it references is on youtube in its entirety--I think I linked to it a ffew months back.

Some more reviews: http://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/going-out/music/mdna-review-madonnas-new-album-754626 http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/reviews/first-listen-madonna-mdna-interscope-7544751.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2012/mar/07/first-listen-madonna-mdna?newsfeed=true

I think they added the newer names to the list largely to seem relevent. Really, if they're going to include people like Aretha, shouldn't they consider people like Barbra Streisand, even if I personally have found her unlistenable since at least the early 80s? Yeah her tours usually are about half based on her new album, which I appreciate considering she lately has toured nearly every album, and it would be so much easier for her to just do more Greatest Hits tours (her Reinvention Tour after American life was advertised as a Greatest Hits tour--partly because of the lacklustre interest in American Life--but Madonna had it her way, and really it was modeled as much around American Life setlist wise as her past hits). I know this has made some fans unhappy--when I saw the Confessions Tour which i loved, we were surrounded by (I assumem, due to the ticket costs) fairly wealthy middle aged people who really only knew her old hits, and would leave to get more beer every time she'd do a new track--which was often. I think you have a fair point about her dance singles--while she's guaranteed to get every track at the top of the dance charts due to her name alone (the dance charts seem to largely be based more around gay clubs anyway--in the US even acts who don't do well there like Kylie routinely top them), I think maybe she's not sure how to approach the dance stuff lyrically now with the common belief that dance songs should be more about having fun and dancing, etc. That said Gaga (whether you like her heavy handed messages in her lyrics or not) seems to have avoided that--and even Madonna who claimed that her Confessions album would be all about having fun and dancing basically only had a lyrically vacant song with her lead single for it Hung Up, many of the other songs, for good or bad, being shoehorned with very personal lyrics (It also has some great midtempo songs, despite claims of it all being dance all the time, like Forbidden Love, which was so great live, and Push anbd Like It Or Not, we'll ignore the overtly religious Isaac). For the record, I much much prefer Mariah in full ballad mode (or at least some of her early C+C Music Factory dance pop like Emotions) than her hip hop/R&B work...

The ABBA girls were vastly underated as vocalists undoubtedly but that's a hella weird list. Aretha hasn't had a great voice since the mid 70s--it just seems like they lopped together a lot of random female vocalists haphazardly--some who write all their own stuff, some like Madonna who co-write most of it (mainly lyrics--something sometimes I think Madonna should ask for more help with lol), others like Aretha who never wrote anything. I dunno, I think people still seem to find it hard to list female artists and categorize them (would a similar list lop Bob Dylan with The Rolling Stones and say Michael Jackson and Justin Timberlake or someone together--I don't think so, but maybe). Thanks for those reviews. I'm a regular Popjustice poster, and I usually agree with their reviews, although they have a tendency similar toAttitude of blind gay fandem (I guess they're not all gay but in my experience talking with the people who write there, they are ) and a somewhat annoying habit of claiming such and such track is the best track they've heard all season, and then when it comes out and flops turning around and dissing it. Still, it's good to see it's getting positive press. I take it that the last half of the album (on the standard edition) which is produced by William Orbit who did all of Ray Of Light will be the moodier, more ballad heavy part (a bit like her Music album I guess which is front ended with more dance tracks, and then becomes more moody and sombre by the end). I admit, I still like a Madonna album to be more dancey than not, but I do love her ballads--I just think if there are too many the album can get mired in Madonna's teenaged poetry navel gazing. American Life isn't nearly as bad an album as its reputation and sales would show, in hindsight a lot of it is interesting and I like Mirwais' production, but listening to at a whole it really is too filled with slower Madonna songs where I think she thinks she's deeper than she is, which is fine for a few songs but can become a chore to listen to. I do like Masterpiece and am glad it's on the album. Speaking of--the deluxe edition of MDNA will have four or five bonus tracks on the end (and sounds like it won't end on a ballad heavy side). I kinda don't understand this recent thing about Deluxe editions. I know in the past, partiularly in the UK, they often reissue an album a year or so later with a new single and extra tracks to boost sales, but the current thing is to releae Deluxe and Standard versions together--Gaga did it last year too. I'm one of the few people my age I know who still buys CDs, at least for the performers like Madonna I tend to collect, and I don't understand why anyone who is enough of a fan to buy the album wouldn't pay the 1-2 dollars more for the five extra tracks (right now on Amazon.ca the deluxe edition of MDNA is actually cheaper on presale). I suppose it's a gimmic like everything else, but this isn't a case of buying it from Target or somethign and getting bonuses, or the deluxe edition being limited...

Ha, I'd never seen that 1986 clip--that's great.

http://cdn.crushable.../alg_brahim.jpg

I have to admit I really like GGW despite myself, but it is VERY much Benny Benassi by the numbers, and anyone could be singing it--I expect and want more from Madonna. It does sound, again from that review solely, that there will be at least a few more interesting tracks on the album though.

You think Madonna would forget? Yeah i was going to post that Attitude magazine. It certainly makes the album sound way way more interesting than Hard Candy. Take it with a grain of salt though--Attitude is always always glowing towards the gay divas (Kylie, Madonna, Gaga, etc)

I agree Carl, though I hate to blame one team for what was used from their material later on by other teams, I think it's a fair point.

Great post Carl--thanks. It's a shame more was not done with Valerie--but I suspect her first love is the theatre and she certainly hasn't wanted in terms of acclaim in that depeartment since. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYS5BROQxw0&feature=related

We're going to have to agree to disagree, particularly the last comment (IMHo it was Ron who played lip service to the show's past, I would hate to have seen Malone and Griffith do the same). It can be argued that Malone should have tried harder to bring on less new characters, and reached into the show's past more. But, as you said, the show really was in dire states. I don't think his overhaul was as total as other successful ones, like Monty's at GH, at any rate.

That's a great read, I assume it was a year or so after The City started? Had no idea good ol' Nellie was doing soap press back then. It does seem weird they weren't up for an Emmy--I also never new they shot so out of sequence, though it makes sense--or thought about how usually a director on soap does focus nearly entirely on performance but with The City they really did have to think about the angles, etc (I appreciate that they aknowledge at first they were too busy)

I love these--Paul could you say what the date of both issues was?

I find that slightly unfair--=Malonereportedly spent hours with Agnes Nixon among others and tried to be fair to soaps as well (which is why one of his first stories was the week of flashbacks for Megan)(. Of course he had a learning curve, but... And as brilliand as Lemay's 70s work was, I'm starting to be unvconvinced of his later work... Granted it's hard to tell--he only had brief runs at Doctors and AW again, but all his talkas a consultant (where he was best friends with Jill PF of all people) make me think he was starting to not get soaps.

I'm glad you agree about the rape. As to Marty, I think she could have been successfully matured as a *true* shrink, not just an aged heroine with no actual shrink storylines. The desire to help others after she has helkped herslef makes a lotof sense--but I'll never understand why soaps have never (in my experience) been able to keep a *sane* shrink an interesting character (I hate to say this but Marlena may come the closest--at least every 10 years she offers some shrink-like advice, but she's not even close to what I mean). Usually shrinks on soaps are day players, or are psychopaths--yet to have a core member of a show be a shrink seems such an easy soap fix--most soap fans would love to see sessions where characters actually talk about their dilemnas in an organic way. I agree about Todd. From all I've read that was one place where Griffith and Malone disagreed as well--Malone gives Griffith credit for developing Todd, but then Griffith wanted Todd off the canvas, and Malone seemed all too eager to make him some Byron-esque figure--but none of that is really Gottlieb's fault. I think we'll have to disagree about the Vicki story--partly for personal problems--her story actually helped my mother deal with a lot of her past, and I can't imagine that happening from any other medium, but it is true that no one knew what to do with her after that. She was too vibrant a character to turn into a Ruth Martin type figure already at that stage, yet... Not much they gave her since then really was preferable to that outcome.

Some of this is just my reaction to the show at the time--and I was fairly new to soaps, and hadn't really found any appealing except AMC and, less so Loving--so stories like Marty's rape were a revelation to me (it also was the story that got my twin sister and mom fully into soaps--briefly for my sister, but more longterm for my mom). The point was that Marty was unlikeable--wasn't it?--but I guess that was very "un-soap like". Todd not having enough reason to be a rapist is nonsensical, when you look at real situations, but I admit was outside of the norm at the time in soap operas where rapists were either characters who appeared that very episode, or long term characters. In a way the criticisms remind me of those mid 1970s criticisms in the soap press for AMC which (largely) read to me as people objecting to a soap doing some different things... You are right though that she deserves (well, her and her collaborators) slightly more criticism than I stated above for the fact that others seemed unable to make many of her key players and story concepts work past her. I still think though, particularly considering how soaps fell apart in the second half of the 90s anyway, and how many other examples there are of great eras of soaps and characters imply not working when their key creators leave (AW in the 70s being a good example), that it's not a fully fair criticism.

So new single Girls Gone Wild is much more what I want from Madonna, even if it sounds a lot like Get Together from Confessions--and the remix of Celebration that was released to radio--no shock as it's also produced by Benny Benassi. TeamMadonna seems to be doing damage control, claiming THIS is the first single, and the previous single was just a promo single...

Marlena's attitude to LG really is one point where I don't agree with her view at all (I often disagree on points, but I think fundamentally I usually get where she's coming from). While she vaguely mentions it, she doesn't give enough credit to the absolute shambles of a show OLTL quickly became in the 1-2 years before Gottlieb came in. I also don't, in hindsight, get the offence many soap fans felt towards having an outsider come in on "their" show--I guess since then we've had such worse examples of people both from outside of the soap industry, and more so, from inside, who have done far more damage to the shows they come to--what Gottlieb did to OLTL really didn't ultimately betray the show's tone or fabric at all, and there WAS a lot of deadweight to get rid of. The short term stories and characters didn't work, but they tried that, and gave up on it relatively quickly (really within a year). The social storylines in hindsight seem kinda heavy handed, but at the time I don't think they did, and I also think OLTL needed a return to that--they had gone as far in the other direction as they could have under Rauch. I get what Carl says about the era ultimately leading to in the way the destruction (at least partially) of characters like Vicki, but really i someone had come on to the show and instead of changing directions, tried to just one up, and take character and story from the successful Rauch era, I feel much of that would have been destroyed MUCH faster. It seems unfair to blame lame stories that took their starting point from the Gottlieb era *on* the Gottlieb era, unfair. That's like saying that the sequels people have done of Pride and Prejudice mainly suck, and it's Jane Austen's fault... (well, not quite, but) That less talented teams of EP/HWs (and that includes later EPs who worked with Malone and Griffith--but mainly Malone solo) have taken seeds from their characters and stories and turned them to crap, isn't their fault--although some of what they did was destructive in and of itself.