vetsoapfan

If they do go that route with the Aaron abuse storyline, it will be so irresponsible and repulsive. Are TPTB really that stupid?

DeliaIrisfan, your assessment of the series was perfectly expressed and quite perceptive. I agree 100% with virtually everything you wrote. I was going to try putting the exact same sentiments into words, but you did so quite eloquently, thereby saving me the trouble. Good job.

 

Now I want to go a rewatch a few dozen RH eps on youtube. 

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOATHED Kelli Maroney and her character, and could NOT stomach watching her on-screen. 

 

There are characters whom you love to hate, but still enjoy watching, and then there are characters like Kimberly, whom you simply loathe and do not want to see or hear AT ALL. EVER .

 

UGH.

I think that, under Claire Labine, the show was beautifully written and showcased characters who were multi-dimensional, flawed, realistic human beings. I don't think that having characters behave in unlikable ways is necessarily going to alienate an audience from the show itself. In fact, the daytime audiences seems to relish interpersonal relationships among complicated characters. I still watched RH, even though several of the principle characters annoyed me; I just did not form as deep an emotional attachment to this soap as I did for, say, THE GUIDING LIGHT, whose tentpole family, the Bauers, were characters whom I generally adored, and whose flaws I found less grating.

 

I could appreciate the integrity in Labine's writing, and the often excellent acting showcased by the leads, but I never grew as attached to the Ryans as I was to the Bauers, the Hugheses and the Stewarts, the Matthewses, the Hortons, the Brooks and the Fosters, etc.

 

Of course, that being said, I suppose I did care more for the RH characters, at least on a subconscious basis, than I realized, because watching the final episodes of RH, when we essentially had to say goodbye to all these people, I kept getting choked up. Even if they vexed me, I did not want them to disappear from my TV screen...forever!

 

I think RH's ratings woes were more tied into the declining quality of writing and storylines over the years. Certainly by the time we had to endure Delia and the gorilla, the writing had become a handicap.

I always felt Maeve was a cold shrew, but Johnny was an outright bully, and when Jack was injured and unable to walk, Johnny's belligerent bad nature was out of control.

 

There's a reason I never felt this was one of my favorite series. I found several key characters to be a major turn-off.

 

During the first few years of the series, I was surprised at how gratuitously insensitive or downright mean some of those sanctimonious Ryans were towards Delia. Objectively, I knew that Delia had been an irritant to the family for years, but we in the audience had not witnessed a lot of that back-story first-hand, as so much of it had played out before the show debuted in 1975.

 

There was a scene in the hospital where Mary was particularly cutting towards Delia, and I thought, "Are we supposed to like Mary? She's such a bitch!" And in another scene, an impatient, frustrated Pat cracked jokes (to Bucky, I think)  about finding Delia curled up on her mother's grave. It made me think Pat was repulsive; it did not help me understand why the Ryan family was fed up with Dee.

 

Once, Jack Fenelli bought a book about Irish history for Maeve, and read aloud a section about the Irish people. The description was not to Maeve's liking, and she (along with Bob Reid, who was there at the time) bitterly lambasted Jack...for comments that had not even originated from him, were not his own, and which he was only reading . Like when Pat was so insensitive to Delia, this made me dislike Maeve intensely.

Just for clarification purposes, in her autobiography, Ruth Warrick does discuss TPTB's disappointment in her initial interpretation of Phoebe Tyler on AMC.

Warrick initially infused a silly ditziness into the character, until a director confronted her with the fact that Agnes Nixon was not happy with that interpretation. Nixon wanted Phoebe Tyler to be more of a serious, formidable presence in Pine Valley. Warrick had been unaware of Nixon's displeasure, and when she asked why no one had ever mentioned it before, the director replied that he had given her "skippy little hints" on how to alter her performances. Her response was, "You're the director...DIRECT!" From then on, she imbued stronger qualities into her portrayal of Phoebe, and made everyone happy enough to keep her around for 35 years.

 

 

With the fast pace at which material must be churned out, I'm many most soaps would not relish the idea of any actor constantly kvetching about the quality of the scripts. Criticizing the writing did not do George Reinholt's career any favors, either. I suppose if TPTB wanted to go with a "younger, sexier" Ed, anyway, Hulswit's vocal displeasure with the material would have given them easy justification to let him go. Still, it was a short-sighted and stupid decision that robbed TGL of a familiar, comforting patriarch; the kind of character they sorely needed as time went on.

That was a wish shared by many viewers, but for whatever reason, TPTB seemed determined to keep Fulton marginalized and the character of Lisa barely used over the last several years of the show. It became increasingly obvious as time went on, and one has to wonder who among the higher ups held Fulton in such contempt, and why they did not simply fire her outright instead of degrading her by treating her like an irrelevant under-fiver.

That's a shame. I enjoyed his work on PP, AW, and ATWT very much.

As Paul Raven pointed out, that is Joan Anderson, who appeared on ATWT from 1963 to 65.

 

I'd say this photo is probably from 1964 or 65, not 62, judging from the actresses pictured.

I know viewers usually do prefer familiar faces in long-running roles, but if rehiring Stewart did not work out for any reason, including ego or personality conflict, I really do think the audience would have accepted Jed Allan in the role. Attractive, personable, age-appropriate; he would have made a fine choice. And pairing Mike Bauer with Alexandra Spaulding could have provided TGL with years of explosive family drama.

 

This show wasted so many opportunities in its last few decades of existence. As a veteran viewer, it was disheartening and infuriating to see the continued failure by TPTB.

Hulswit would have been perfect as the new patriarch of the Bauers. He exuded warmth, which reminded me of both Papa Bauer and Bert, but could also be strong and fierce when in righteous or protective mode. I appreciated Peter Simon on SFT, but his morose, often too internal interpretation did not fit the character of Ed.

 

Don Stewart would have been my first choice to bring Mike Bauer back to Springfield, of course, but after his passing, I could have accepted someone like Jed Allan in the role. After Michael O'Leary bloated out, I was afraid TPTB would sideline his character for not fitting into the romantic-lead hunk mold, and I'd have been okay with them recasting the role of Rick (whom I still want to call "Freddie," even today) with an actor like Tuc Watkins, who could play the comedic aspects Rick was known for, but who was also so attractive.

 

Elvera Roussel was by far the best of the adult Hopes, and I would have asked her to return to the show. If that did not work out, I would have offered the part to Robin Mattson. Mary Stuart was a great choice to play at Meta, and the show was lucky to have her.

 

Mart Hulswit as Ed. Don Stewart or Jed Allan as Mike. Elvera Roussel as Hope. Tuc Watkins as Rick. Mary Stuart as Aunt Meta. Woohoo! Bauer Power could have been in full force!

 

I thought she played on ATWT from 1964 to 1966, which would not fit if this photo is actually from 1962.

 

(I just checked in two reference books, which also list Alexander's tenure on the show from 1964066.)

I think Hulswit's being slightly pudgy had a lot to do with it. TPTB believe that the audience only wants to see thin romantic leads. (Well, it's getting a bit better nowadays, but in the past, it was rare to find any overweight characters of that sort.)

 

I was quite offended by Marland's referring to Hulswit as a "dodo," a mean-spirited bit of sniping that was so unnecessary (and so unlike the writer, who never seemed to have a bad word to say about anyone, even Allen Potter or Gloria Monty, both of whom he had had trouble working with.)

 

Seriously, I would take Hulswit's Ed over Simon's any day. (Although I would take Simon's Ed over Richard van Fleet's version.)

In an interview many years ago, Douglas Marland spoke about how TPTB wanted to go younger and sexier with the character of Ed, and how Mart Hulswit was supposedly a "dodo," who was not attractive or fit enough to play a younger, sexier Ed. 

 

It was absurd, of course. Regardless of TPTB's opinion of what will or will not appeal to the audience, we do not all demand to see washboard abs and shampoo-model hair on every soap opera character. We have loved matriarchs and patriarchs like Bert Bauer, Lila Quartermaine, Joe Martin, Stu Bergman, Grandpa Hughes, Katherine Chancellor, and so many others, regardless of their physical attributes. Mart Hulswit was warm and comforting, and certainly attractive even though his waist was expanding and his hair was thinning. He was Ed Bauer. Peter Simon is a good actor, but much more aloof and reserved than Hulswit, and is he (or was he, at the time) significantly more attractive than Hulswit? I would say no.

 

The early 1980s saw the unavoidable loss of Bert Bauer, the completely avoidable loss of Mike, Hope, Hillary, and even Bill Bauer, and the pointless recasting of Ed Bauer.  It was a series of death blows to the core family and to the show, and TGL never actually recovered.

Yes, that SJR clip is available on youtube, and to be fair, SOD labeled Reinholt difficult, but we all know he had had to deal with Harding Lemay and Paul Rauch on AW, neither of whom were fragile, retiring flowers, themselves. Lemay's haughtiness and hubris are evidenced in his own autobiography, as well as in many press interviews he has granted over the years, and Paul Rauch was...well, Paul Rauch, not known for always treating people with respect or decency. Had Reinholt been working with another writer and producer, would he have become so abrasive? Who knows? But I find it hard to believe that with Lemay and Rauch in the mix, 100% of the conflict arose from Reinholt.

Yes, Reinholt had certain issues while working on both AW and OLTL...and I don't think we even had to read through the lines to see it. His problems were pretty overt. Whether or not his loud, public complaints about the shows' writing and producing were justified (and in certain key areas, I  agreed with his criticisms), by all accounts he must have been a handful. He later spoke about working as an escort, claiming that he went out on platonic dates with fans who wanted to spend time in his company.

 

As a viewer, my principle concern was what he brought to my TV screen, however, and for most of his tenure on AW, he gave complex, mesmerizing performances, and had great on-screen chemistry with Jacqueline Courtney, Robin Strasser, and even Victoria Wyndham.

All these vintage photos make me so nostalgic for the golden era of soaps.

 

((Sigh))

 

 

Courtney has said in interviews that she liked Wyndham a lot, and that Victoria was very much into her character. Wyndham has also been quoted as saying she liked Courtney and Reinholt, although back in 1975 she wondered if it was a good idea for Reinholt to join OLTL after leaving AW, because he seemed unhappy working within the soap opera medium. Considering how much Reinholt later badmouthed OLTL, claiming its writers were even worse than AW's (!!!), and how Reinholt ranted his way out the door of the ABC soap, Wyndham was probably right. Using a huge knife to stab into a cake at the OLTL anniversary party one year, producer Joseph Stuart joked about the cake being George Reinholt's heart, LOL.

 

I have a letter to the editor of Afternoon TV Stars from Reinholt, published soon after he was fired by AW's Paul Pauch, in which he says that both he and Courtney had originally felt Wyndham was miscast as the third part of the Alice/Steven/Rachel triangle. Courtney made a comment once about the cast being miffed about all the new, aggressive actresses coming aboard AW and getting attention for their work that perhaps others, like Robin Strasser, deserved more. This was before Wyndham arrived, however, and it sounded like she was referring to Susan Sullivan.

 

I tend to believe Courtney and Wyndham got along fairly well. It was just Reinholt who could be prickly, based on so many other actors' comments. At this point, however, 40+ years later, we'll never really know. Heck, even Paul Rauch, who was so critical of Reinholt and Courtney back in the 1970s, praised Courtney when she passed away a few years ago, calling her a "great gal" who always gave first-rate performances. 

Yes, that is Hulswit, looking as cute and cuddly as ever.

They had a few good actors cast as David, my favorite being Richard Guthrie, and the character was well-written and well-used under Pat Falken Smith and even, to an extent, under Ann Marcus. In 1976, we had Wesley Eure as Mike and Richard Guthrie as David, and it looked like the next generation of Hortons was on solid footing. That did not last long, but it was good while it did last.

Heather North was interesting as Sandy Horton, and had  a screen presence which was lacking in the later actresses who played the role. When the show brought back the character many years later, I don't think TPTB really knew what to do with her, and were not really committed to keeping her around longterm. The same with Scotty. They aged him way too quickly, and without a lot of point, for he did not last long, and the show never mined the potential the character could have had. It was like the writers just wanted to throw a Horton on-screen, but didn't actually know how to weave them successfully into the mix, and gave up after brief, half-hearted tries. Sarah Horton also fits into this category. If they had had Deidre Hall debut as Sandy Horton in 1976, and given Sandy the stories and attention Marlena Evan received, it would have been a longterm shot in the arm for the Horton clan.

 

After Wesley Eure was fired, Mike stopped being Mike, and subsequent actors in the role (Michael Weiss being the best of the lot) were basically playing an entirely different character just going by the same name. Like Dusty Donovan and Meg Snyder on ATWT, whose later incarnations bore no resemble whatsoever to the characters as originally created and played.

Yes, Slesar did not have his characters sit around pontificating about feminism and the need for equality. He showcased female characters who already WERE strong, capable, layered, interesting in their own right, and not just appendages on the arms of more dominant men. 

Mary Stuart said that once they saw her on-screen, TPTB thought Sloan looked "too mature" (meaning old, I guess) for the role. I did think Sloan was a strange choice for Patti, but they certainly did go through a ba-zillion actresses to play Jo's daughter. The only one I really liked, of course, was Loring. All those who followed her were "fake Pattis" to me, LOL.

I cannot praise Slesar enough. He was great at creating intricate, long-term storylines which kept the audience guessing right up until the last minute, and which wove most of the show's characters into the action. He was also wonderful at character development and relationships, and his handling of the Adam and Nicole love story, as just one example, proved he could write romance effectively. In short, he could do it all, and the viewers benefited from his genius for many years. His best story, IMHO, was the original Whitney-family saga, in which a deranged Keith Whitney/Jonah Lockwood terrorized Monticello. 

 

BTW, the critique of TEON was spot-on. We need some soap journalists today like Deborah Channel. I'd trade 10 Caroline Hinseys for one Channel.