MarlandFan

13 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

With the more time that passes, the more and more that Sheffer run feels alienating and perplexing. Even then, the show felt so foreign to itself for me. Why were so many people distracted by an increasingly dying soap press and irrelevant Daytime Emmy awards? 

I guess I can see it being appetizing to newer and casual viewers at the time, and maybe some loyal fans were excited to see things finally happening on the show after those very long/boring years in the mid/late 90’s (not to mention, Leah Laiman tanked the show pretty badly before she was fired), but upon revisiting some of it years later, so much of it hasn’t aged well (I think that’s true for so many things for that era actually, not just on soaps), and it just feels as empty and hollow as ever. 

I never understood the Hogan Sheffer love. And bringing back Craig as a villain was a slap in the face to both the character and the audience.  

12 hours ago, adrnyc said:

That's because they wiped everything! Why does everyone find that so hard to believe??!!! 

I think we find it hard to believe because -- if true --  it is perhaps one of the most idiotic corporate decisions ever made.  You never delete or trash content/property -- especially in this day and age when there are so many niche-related media outlets and so much demand for content.  Even if they trashed the physical tapes because it cost too much to store, at some point they were creating episodes in digital format. Storing digital is easy and cheap. 

10 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

Yep, I haven’t seen much detail about the case, but someone posted that article on Twitter today and I didn’t realize those charges are a few years old now, but the actual trial is happening soon it seems.

I also didn’t realize Martha had been making the rounds on far-right trash media outlets in an attempt to clear her husband’s name either. 

 

I was also a little put off by Martha's appearance on NewsMax (besides being crazy-partisan, they are so unprofessional they couldn't even spell her last name correctly.)  But I imagine that NewsMax may have been the only media outlet that was willing to have her on (or maybe she had some sort of contact over there?). While it's a big news story to ATWT fans, the rest of the world may not be interested in what seems like a complicated case.  And -- again -- while past soap actors are important to us, the rest of the world may no longer even remember who she is.  However, given the frightening situation which has happened to her husband/family, I'm willing to give her a pass on this appearance.  Everything I've seen from Martha over the years indicates that she is loving, inclusive and open-minded. 

After Marland's death, I watched ATWT for another 18 months.  1993 stayed strong but by early 1994 the seams were showing.  While Shannon's January 1994 return was a fantastic surprise, her story immediately became boring when it was clear that the new writers did not know how to write for her.  And the villainous Hans was also boring largely because the actor playing him was a light-weight.  Conflict, subtext, weighty confrontations all seemed to disappear from the show. With Marland, I felt he was always one step ahead of the audience; Friday cliff-hangers were true nail-biters.  But post-Marland, I was rarely surprised. I know I keep using the word "boring" -- but there it is.

3 hours ago, Liberty City said:

Stumbled upon this when researching something completely different.

It appears that someone downloaded every ATWT episode they could find from YouTube and is now attempting to sell the MP4s.  

9 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Thank you so much for the Kathryn Hays profile!  It's incredible that she was never nominated for an Emmy - especially during the Marland years when she was given such great material.  I'm not certain if it's because she didn't wish to put herself in the running or if she never got pre-nominated, but she was often head-and-shoulders above those who were nominated.  The Emmys are notorious for ignoring talent, though.  For example, Susan Flannery was doing incredible work on B+B for over a decade before she was finally recognized with a nomination. (Then, like a dam bursting, she won several times.)  I suppose some actresses just make it look effortless and are therefore overlooked.

7 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Did they? I always thought he just vanished or at most mentioned he was off on a trip.

I recall Eileen being disappointed that Chuckie was suddenly killed off. She was probably smart enough to realize that in a few years she would have been the mother of a SORASED character and could grab some airtime.

Chuckie (Charlie?) could have come on in the early 80's. Marland ended up giving her Scott but later writers were not interested.

Maybe Chuckie could have been brought back in a baby switch story. Remind me about Scott, Did Lisa believe he had died at birth?

I remember reading a 1992 interview with Fulton after the Scott reveal.  The previous year, Doug Marland had taken her aside and asked her about Chuckie's death: had he died off-screen?  Marland was hoping to do a "Chuckie returns" story.  But when Fulton confirmed that there were scenes of his death, Marland (who had great respect for the fans) decided not to erase history and instead created the Scott and John Eldridge storyline.  In the long run, I think that worked much better.  It's easier to believe that a young, selfish Lisa had abandoned her child rather than to imagine her hiding Chuckie for decades in a rehab hospital or something. 

Great photos @victoria foxton.   Thanks!  

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Awful. The P&G hits keep coming. I always remember her as the little girl, rather than all her tragedies later on (and the ATWT role she seemed out of it during). I hope it was fast and painless.

Not sure why they called her ATWT role recurring.

I noticed the "recurring" word as well.  She was actually the young "star" of the show at the time.  ATWT's answer to GH's Laura.  I'm guessing that the writer(s) of the obits are young, have limited knowledge of soaps in general, and during their cursory research found some website that used the word "recurring".  And many of these articles lift/borrow/steal entire paragraphs from other articles, so the word "recurring" is being used in many of them.  Journalism is truly dying.

29 minutes ago, kalbir said:

That's right, one full contract (spring 1985 to spring 1988). Her departure was during the writer's strike and before Robert Calhoun was replaced as EP by Laurence Caso.

1988 was a difficult year not only because of the 6-month strike, but also because it's virtually impossible to maintain the high standard of 1986 and 1987.  That being said, I like the Caso period very much; 1990 was very strong (almost as good as 86/87).  And (if you ignore the Carolyn Crawford murder mystery) 91 and 92 were also excellent.  I'm not certain what story ideas Caso may have contributed to, but he seems to have been a strong supporter/protector of Doug Marland.

2 hours ago, adrnyc said:

 

Agreed! And he had chemistry with everyone. I can understand why people enjoyed Scott Bryce - having see so much of the 80s/90s, I like him as well -  but one thing that can be said about him: he was in no way smokin'.

While I feel Hunt Block was very sexy in his "Knots" days, I'm apparently in the minority in preferring Bryce over Hunt.  Bryce -- while not sexy/hot in the traditional sense -- had a confidence and swagger that was VERY sexy and far-outshined the wooden Block.  (lol ..."wooden" Block.)  Sex with Bryce/Craig was probably way more better.

8 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

A few days late but thanks for the tag @DRW50!
 

As far as the Tom and Margo scenes go this is the beginning of Margo’s PTSD which basically we would end up seeing Margo act crazy for the next two, three years or so.

Cullinton had a strong 1995, I wonder why it fizzled and he was let go. What gets me is why P&G even hired Stern & Black. Having rewatched Falcon Crest sure their early work was alright, but their returned to write and produce the show’s Season 8 (1988-89) was an unmitigated disaster, and history would repeat itself in 1996 

 

Might be a controversial opinion but at the time I actually preferred Sheffer’s ATWT at least 2000-2003 to what occurred in the FMB era and at least under Goutman/Laiman. 1997 started of promising but ended up almost as bad as 1996, and 1998-99 was sloppy. As much as I enjoyed Molly later on, those first couple years were rough as she was literally everywhere roaming the show aimlessly, even dating Andy at one point. The less said about Julia and Katie during these years the better. 

@Vee mentioned haircuts during the FMB era, I will have to say at one point West and KMH seemed to have the exact same hair cut as well at the height of the scheming as well I had to to a double take a couple of times. Maybe that was someone’s idolized idea of an vixen?

At least in first couple of Sheffer years at least was highly entertained compared to Lethal Laiman’s tenure, it really wasn’t was until the rapes of Jack and Jessica I found myself feeling offended by Hogan.

I still mourn the fact that Clare Labine was offered the ATWT HW position in 1996, but instead chose to pursue a new show pitch that she hoped would see fruition (it didn't).  Think of the possibilities!  She would have been the perfect fit.

15 hours ago, blueberrywaffle said:

Why did Royce leave ? 

Great actor, wrong part.  And the timing for his character was bad because headwriter Doug Marland passed away before he could guide the Royce multiple personality story to its natural conclusion.  Between Neal's untimely death and the anti-climactic way Lucinda discovered Neal and Royce were her half-siblings, the storyline kept missing the mark.  And, while beautiful, the actress playing Emily (Royce's love interest) never generated any heat with her male co-stars.  That being said, Royce eventually left the canvas to focus on his emotional healing AND to spare Emily any future hurt that she was certainly destined to experience by being married to him.

10 hours ago, KMan101 said:

Are the rare uploads sticking around on YouTube lately? Remember the 'purge' a year ago or so? Siiigh. I'm so grateful to those who upload old episodes.

I've also been worried about YouTube suddenly taking down all of these old episodes.  As a result, I've been downloading the videos I want and storing them on DropBox.  I use this free website to download to my computer: https://yt5s.com/en120/youtube-to-mp4   

2 minutes ago, Brolden said:

With all this talk about P&G wiping everything, I'm very pleased to announce that I am currently in the process of creating an ATWT vault!

I've been inspired by the vaults for B&B, Y&R and GL that I've seen on this board. I'm currently in the process of filling it up, so give me a little time before I share the links with all of you. I need to sort through a lot of stuff that I've left unsorted on my external hard drive for way too long. I've always taken the approach of "rather have three copies of an episode than no copy at all" when collecting episodes, so I'm tryin to sort all that out. 

Stay tuned!

I would be eternally grateful!!!  TY!

The exteriors, yes.  I believe they also filmed the "Holden-searching-for-Lily" scenes at the same time, but for later airing.  These were the scenes that re-introduced Martha Byrne to the show.

6 minutes ago, RavenWhitney said:

ATWT was so unfocused and uneven in 90-92. I found it hard to watch.  Too many groups of characters coming in and out of scenes.  Of course, compared to what followed, those years were gold but Marland had lost something with the bigger cast and budget.  

I disagree.  I love that there was constant traffic coming through the hospital cafeteria or the Yacht Club or at Bob and Kim's house.  It kept the action moving and each scene might touch upon 3 or 4 different storylines.  (These days we're stuck with static two-character scenes with boring dialogue that goes nowhere.)  However, while I love the 90-92 era, I think the Caroline Crawford murder mystery was a major clunker. It introduced so many bland, tertiary characters (to your point) with no connection to the main families. and it went on forever (18 months!)

2 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Oh wow! I was about to post more of your uploads from YouTube on here.

Thanks for uploading them on YouTube.

That's cool.  Keep on posting! 

15 hours ago, Brolden said:

With all the recent never-before-seen episodes popping up on Youtube, I'm working hard to download these episodes and store local copies in case something happens to the online versions. Interestingly enough, one episode doesn't seem to be working. I can't seem to get the December 10, 1990 episode downloaded, my theory is it's because the URL contains two dash symbols, which is unusual. Has anyone else tried to download the episode and run into the same issue? Does someone know a workaround?

I'm the guy who has been posting the 90/91 episodes.  Like you, I have also been downloading episodes over the years just in case some (or all) ATWT episodes are taken down.  Sorry about the Dec 10, 1990 episode - I have no idea why it is not downloading.  I also just tried to download it using this website (https://yt5s.com/en112/youtube-to-mp4) but I got a 302 error.  Maybe if I re-upload it, you'll be able to access it?  I'll do that over the next day or two.

1 hour ago, Fevuh said:

Very odd.  Margo and James were a huge thing.  Always wondered that myself.  

Marland chose not to revisit Stenbeck's rivalry with John Dixon either.  I think Marland always planned to use Stenbeck sparingly (3 to 6 months at a time). He was an over-the-top villain that no longer fit the canvas.  Too much of a good thing. I'm glad that Marland believed him to have died in 1989 and never brought him back. 

26 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Both Andrew and Melanie raised eyebrows and gave serious side-eye when they were told that Paul and Emily ended up together. I think, in the eyes of many, especially back then, Paul and Emily were never meant to end up together. It’s still odd to me that this ultimately happened. Then again, I would never have thought to put Barbara with one of James Stenbeck's spawn. Just really odd.

Revisiting this Casey euthanasia storyline made me wonder about the impetus for the story surrounding Casey’s sad and brutal decline. The more I see of this era, the more I think that death may have been a consistent preoccupation for Marland. It’s as if he knew on some level that he had just a few years left and he wanted to grapple with the implications of a life cut short.

Regarding Casey's death: it was actor Bill Shanks who wanted to leave the show after his 3-year contract expired. Marland knew that Casey would never abandon Lyla and Katie so, rather than have Casey leave, he decided to write a story about Guillain-Barre syndrome which would eventually lead to Casey's death and the right-to-die storyline. Unfortunately, Hillary Bailey Smith left ATWT at the end of December 1989 just as Shanks was scheduled to leave (and Casey was to die). Marland knew that the audience would not feel the same emotional connection to a new Margo and the right-to-die story (and its fallout) would fall flat.  So TPTB asked Shanks to stay an additional 6 months to allow the audience to accept Ellen Dolan as Margo.  This actually helped the emotional impact of the story on other levels too because during those 6 months, it helped to create the friendship between Casey, Duke, and Susan so that his death devastated them as well.  (It also further humanized Susan after she went to bed with Bob).  

I don't think Marland had an obsession with death, but I think he began to understand that he had a responsibility to tell socially-relevant stories. He had always done so, but such storylines seemed to pop up a lot more in his later years. In 1990/91/92 he focused not only on the right-to-die story but also on teenage alcoholism, incest, bulimia, abortion, AIDS, rape, child abuse, interracial marriage, and Native American rights.  The examination of Kim and Bob's marriage was the most adult I'd ever seen on a soap.  The show lost most of it's whimsy/fantasy elements from the late 1980s and became a very mature show dealing with mature topics.  The ratings were very strong during those years which must have indicated to Marland that he was delivering stories that audiences wanted to see.

1 hour ago, Soapsuds said:

 

The infamous Carolyn Crawford Murder mystery. One of Marland's rare missteps. It seemed to break most of his own writing rules, especially the one about focusing too much on characters who had no connection to the main canvas.  I know the story was intended as an homage to the Hitchcock film "Suspicion", but it went on too long (18 months) and used too many ancillary characters. And it involved the murder of someone we didn't care about.  If Marland had stuck with his original end to the story (that Daryl DID kill Carolyn) then perhaps it would have been worth it. But it ended with a fizzle and, when Daryl and Frannie were both written off a month later, it made the story seem even more of a waste. 

Wow - I'm surprised at all the criticisms of Marland. Other than the misfire of the Caroline Crawford murder mystery, I thought the show was very good in 91/92. The Aaron storyline, Holden's amnesia, Angel's crisis, Connor's takeover of Walsh, Margo's rape, Scott's arrival, Tonio's end, Ellie and Kirk's marriage, the healing of Kim and Bob's marriage, Jessica and Duncan's relationship all were riveting.  While many of the stories were indeed sad and dramatic -- that's what soap operas are!  And the ratings for this period seem to validate that Marland knew what he was doing -- ATWT was in the top 4 shows for both 91 and 92.  1993 began very promisingly with the introduction of the Grimaldis, Royce and Neal's secret relationship to Lucinda, and Martha Byrne's return. I did not have the sense that Marland was getting tired of the show or that he was looking for an exit.  And with the strong ratings, I don't think that P&G was thinking of replacing him.  Unfortunately,  Marland's death derailed the show.  Which brings me to my final point: the show never recovered from his death.  Marland's 9 years were ATWT's high water mark. I'm sad that we never got to see what he may have come up with for 1993 and beyond.

2 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

I loved Jessica and Duncan. She grounded him and he opened up her world. And then of course, their being one of Daytime's first interracial marriages was an important milestone as well. Kudos to Doug Marland for seeing their potential and exploring such social themes.