JoeCool

57 minutes ago, JAS0N47 said:

NIELSEN RATINGS UPDATE:

 

Good news for daytime ratings fans!  Confirmation has arrived for the final "missing" weeks. All of the remaining missing weeks still needed from 1987-1990 have been found except for two weeks in late 1987. So, as we start to finish up this project, the final stats are this:

 

From January 1979-May 1992, there will only be 3 weeks missing full data (1 from 1981 and 2 from 1987). At the moment, it looks like two weeks from 1991 are still missing, but those weeks are covered by the Soap Opera Weekly charts, so only two weeks from 1991 will be missing the additional data not covered in Soap Opera Weekly (affiliates, clearance, demos, preemptions).

Thanks so much @JAS0N47

I appreciate all you do!

2 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Y&R #1 three weeks so far in Summer 1986. We saw July 18, 1986 during the classics, Victor proposal to Ashley.

Restless was so so good Summer 1986....so good I watched restless and taped AMC.

31 minutes ago, kalbir said:

John/Jill divorce and Jill's shooting.

Yep. Lots of good stuff!

2 minutes ago, kalbir said:

June 20, 1986 Y&R Brad/Traci wedding.

What was happening on Days to get to 3rd? Days hadn't been 3rd since Bo/Hope wedding I believe.

I started watching Restless in May 86...I remember Brad/Traci wedding...very good lead-in weeks to that event.

3 minutes ago, kalbir said:

1986 was the first summer concert I remember. 

Thought so. That was a very good summer on Restless in 1986.

42 minutes ago, kalbir said:

June 26, 1986 Y&R Tricia Cast debut.

Summer 1986 Y&R Lauralee Bell is now a full time cast member. Cricket proceeds to eat the show for the rest of the decade.

I tuned into Restless during the summer of 1986. It was fascinating with Cricket, Danny, Nina and Phillip. Summer 1986 with AMC was rather ho hum. I ended up watching Restless and taping AMC. I am not sure if summer 1986 was the year of the summer concerts on Restless...though.

All My Children ended today - September 23, 2011. Does not seem 12 years.

All My Children ended today - September 23, 2011. Does not seem 12 years.

1 hour ago, beebs said:

Wild to see Loving so competitive at this stage, coming so close to beat AW, especially knowing how this truly is as good as it's gonna get for them. Were the stories really that strong at the time, or was it just them being buoyed by the uptick of ABCD in general?

Agnes Nixon returned as HW in June 1985 and the stories got stronger for a time. This probably explains the small bounce.

12 minutes ago, watson71 said:

This is getting ready to air in November and December. Originally AW was to film scenes in Egypt and had to transfer to Arizona quickly after the the Achille Lauro ocean liner hijacking took place in early October when the ship was hijacked off the coast of Egypt by four men from the Palestine Liberation Front.   It was in the news at the time that the safety of the cast and crew did not warrant the trip to Egypt.  It was jarring onscreen that Carl Hutchins buried an Egyptian treasure in the Arizona desert.

I remember those shows. I taped them...I was not a regular viewer of AW but I wanted to see those shows. 

4 minutes ago, kalbir said:

@JoeCool Remember too that 1988 ratings are going to be affected by the Writer's Strike.

Y&R becoming #1 was a combination of owning their time slot, having strong lead ins, and holding on to their audience during the Writer's Strike.

@kalbir I forgot about the 1988 strike. It will be interesting to see. Thanks.

1 minute ago, kalbir said:

@JoeCool From the annual ratings, Y&R moves past All My Children for 2nd in 1986, ties General Hospital for #1 in 1988, and becomes #1 overall in 1989.

I know there are some weeks in that time frame where Y&R is #1. Days got to #1 in July 1988 w/ Steve/Kayla wedding.

@kalbir Thanks I knew about AMC but I thought Restless made its move on GH earlier. I thought Restless was Number 1 against GH for a significant amount of time in 1988. It will interesting to see GH slip.

1 minute ago, kalbir said:

We're a year away from Oprah going national. It will be interesting to see clearances of the bottom tier soaps at that point.

Ryan's Hope will tank as well as Loving. I am interested to see the drop off as well. Also in a year September 1986, General Hospital starts to drop and Restless overtakes GH.

3 hours ago, JAS0N47 said:

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS: WEEKS OF 9/16/85-9/20/85 & 9/23/85-9/27/85:

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS: WEEKS OF 9/30/85-10/4/85 & 10/7/85-10/11/85:

All My Children begins its descent. After being in the top 3 since 77-78, AMC drops yet stays competitive. AMC forgot what it did best love stories and family relationships. Not until the fall of 1989 does AMC rise again.  Ryan's Hope is just horrible the quality of the show was awful and ABC affiliates were dumping it and should have been canceled..tying SFT for last.

ABC did ask Agnes for help with OLTL in 1983 when Jean Arley was hired as producer.  After nearly 2 years, Arley was canned and Rauch was brought on. Agnes  had disdain for Rauch on his brusque style but could do nothing about him because ABC wanted him.

I never said Agnes worked with Paul Rauch. Agnes in interviews avoided talking about Rauch. When Rauch fired Ellen Holly, Agnes Nixon offered Holly a part continuing on Loving but Holly refused. Agnes then focus on Loving in the mid 1980s.

24 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Why did she leave? Who was HW in her absence? When was she the consultant to the writing on all the ABC soaps? She had a plan at one point that Wisner Washam would write her way in her absence so she could do other things. Why didn't it work? 

Lorraine was Agnes' protege as well. She started as a breakdown writer for Agnes in 1979. In 1982 Lorraine and Wisner were co-HW for AMC until 1986. Wisner left in 1987. Lorraine was sole HW then th1 1988 strike and ABC then got involved and Lorraine was demoted to Associate HW. Margaret Depriest was hired as HW then Agnes came back in Nov 1989. WIsner returned as Associate HW with Lorraine as Associate HW.

What happened during this time, AMC lost its focus on what it did best love stories and family relationships. Agnes never really should have left at all. Because of ABCs decision not to move AMC and place Loving at 1:30PM, Agnes really got tired and then ABC asked in the mid 80s to save Loving and OLTL. 

10 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Why did she leave? Who was HW in her absence? When was she the consultant to the writing on all the ABC soaps? She had a plan at one point that Wisner Washam would write her way in her absence so she could do other things. Why didn't it work? 

Agnes has said she was exhausted. She intially left AMC as HW in 1982. Winser Washam became HW. Winser was Agnes' protege.  Agnes retunred a writer for brief stints in the early 1980s. Winser was gone in the late 1980s. Lorraine Broderick and Winser were co head writers in 1986 to 1987. In mid 1987 to Nov. 1989, Lorraine was sole HW. Agnes returned as a writer in 1988 and then took over as HW in 1989. 

Agnes was busy with Loving and OLTL during this time. Winser was gone in 1987 so that really explains AMC's descent. Lorraine did not get into her groove and master AMC's tone until 1989.

It did not work simply it was not Agnes and/or Winser. They knew AMC.

12 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Why did she leave? Who was HW in her absence? When was she the consultant to the writing on all the ABC soaps? She had a plan at one point that Wisner Washam would write her way in her absence so she could do other things. Why didn't it work? 

Winsner left AMC in 1987 and returned as an Associate HW  from 1989 to 1992. He left AMC once Megan McTavish was named HW in 1992. 

Wisner has said Megan was nasty and did not want to work with her. McTavish was not in Wisner's league as a writer.

4 hours ago, JAS0N47 said:

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS (FAST NATIONALS): WEEK OF 8/26/85-8/30/85:

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS: WEEKS OF 9/2/85-9/6/85 & 9/9/85-9/13/85:

September 1985 is the beginning of All My Children's 4 year descent and AMC will not begin to recover until September 1989. This is the weakest period of AMC in the 1970s and 1980s. It will finish in the top 3 for 1985-1986. Then descend to No. 4 (3 way tie with OLTL and Days) in 86-87 season then tied for No. 3 for 87-88 with OLTL and then No. 4 in 88-89. AMC ratings will fluctate from No. 1 to No. 7 in the weekly ratings and its performance becomes very erratic until ABC asks Agnes Nixon to return.

Agnes was gone from AMC in 1985 and did to return until 1988 and then Nixon stayed until early 90s. AMC was in the top 3 since 77-78 but its descent is based on the fact that the writing was subpar and it faced intense competition from NBC and CBS. AMC rebounds in 1989 and finishes third in the 89-90 season and 2 years later will dethrone General Hospital as ABC's top soap.

If Agnes Nixon did not leave AMC but stayed on even as a consulting writer, AMC during this period would have be much better.

1 hour ago, MichaelGL said:

Looking back, I've underestimated what a phenomenon AMC was back in the 80s. I'd say it's more consistent ratings wise compared to any other soap on ABC at the time, that includes GH. 

Very true. AMC is very underrated when compared to GH. AMC was higher rated than GH from 1975 through 1979. AMC hit number 1 in the weekly ratings in 1973. AMC was a phenomenon for a long time. GH got all the attention because of Luke and Laura. AMC also had toougher competition in its time slot than GH.

20 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

From what I've read Jackie asked Agnes for a recommendation for a writer for GH & she definitely said Douglas Marland & Jackie went with that. 

I've never read of Agnes having anything to do with Monty being tapped & promoted from Director to EP. 

And I've read copious amounts about this. Jackie = ABC Daytime VP Jackie Smith

Agnes was asked by Fred Silverman about Monty and recommended based on Monty's efforts at CBS. Jackie worked for Fred. So when Jackie asked so did Fred. Fred hired Jackie and credited her with ABC's success. 

1 hour ago, JoeCool said:

 

1 hour ago, soapfave06 said:

RH seemed to be doing very well, but wasn’t there a lot of interference from the network with recasts and plot? Between that and the time slot change it just seemed it was ranked on purpose to be kept on so much longer than it needed to. 
 

Loving seemed pointless in general.

The biggest shame to me is EDGE being canceled when it had equal ratings on a thirty percent less clearance rate, that’s a tragedy. 

What years did ABC really trust in Agnes? If she contributed to recommending on how to save GH, and ABC was at the top of its game, what happened in the mid-80s and how did ABC end up in such a mess by the late-80s and early-90s (OLTL and GH were dreadful and RH officially canceled, AMC had a rough patch but was better than ever by ‘91)

Agnes gave up her HW position at AMC in 1980/1. ABC was a mess basically because the writing quality was awful. GH after Luke and Laura had all these adventure storylines which were awful. OLTL had a rebirth between 1986 to 1988 and got into the top 3. AMC had its decline because a lot of big actors left the show in the mid 80s and Agnes was not there to steer the ship. Agnes was brought back in late 1980s to HW AMC. AMC got better but ABC was still a mess.  The ABC formulas in the late 70s/early 80s were not working anymore. Bill Bell was still HW at Restless and the quality never waned. Marland was at ATWT and Days was having a rebirth. It was not so much as ABC collapsed...the competition was better, had better writing and better stories. Ryan's Hope and Loving were at the bottom and not doing well and that did not help ABC.

19 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

ABC paid Agnes $50 million as a consultant? I find that a little hard to believe.

Yep. Over a period of 10 to 15 years. It has been reported. Not hard to believe. Michael Eisner was in charge of Disney then and loved Agnes. Eisner was daytime VP who greenlit AMC. Capital Cities/ABC also had Agnes under a consulting contract.  Disney bought ABC.

Agnes made millions from ABC after she sold AMC and OLTL. Agnes is the one who recommended Glory Monty as producer for GH. Case closed on the millions. Fred Silverman asked Agnes about how to save GH. Agnes also recommeded Douglas Marland for GH. Silverman also loved Agnes.

Ellen Holly mentioned Agnes'  huge contract for consulting in her book.

10 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Are you aware that Claire Labine regretted selling it to them & repeatedly asked them to sell it back to her?

Of course, Agnes is said to have regretted selling to them also but she never did anything with that sentiment. 

The independent owner situation was just too difficult, which is why almost everyone sold. 

Nixon never expressed regret publicly but it was too much for her and her husband. But Agnes was very angry when AMC was moved for RH. 

Labine regretted it and wanted RH back but that ship sailed.

15 minutes ago, Sean said:

Well, as a fan, I'm personally glad they gave Ryan's Hope a few more years.  1984-86 was a dire period, but some of my favorite material aired in the 80s—1983 and 1987-89 in particular were strong.

Even if it never attained the heights of AMC/OLTL/GH, it did well for them for a few years, and without a soap as a lead-in for most of that time. Plus it's my understanding that the demos were solid (I think there's a post early in this thread where AMC and it were at the top of the key demos in 1977-78). Once the ratings began slipping at the end of 1982, I can understand why they gave it some time to recover before effectively issuing it a death warrant with the move to noon. AMC was a behemoth on its own, and I doubt a stronger lead-in would have materially changed its performance unless it was something on the level of General Hospital.

Launching Loving when they did has never made sense to me—I find it hard to believe that they thought it could succeed in a time slot that hadn't seen a successful soap in years. Plus, based on the fact that it never had a consistent creative direction at any point in its 12 year run, it doesn't seem like they believed in the material, either. At least with Ryan's Hope they fully owned the show and had an incentive to keep it on until it no longer generated enough profit. Was there ever any genuine fear that Agnes Nixon would leave the network if they didn't greenlight a third show?

When RH debuted in 1975, it was given AMC's time slot at 1PM and AMC went to 12:30PM. Agnes Nixon sold AMC and OLTL to ABC in January 1975. Agnes fought hard against the time slot change. As a result, AMC went down and then recovered in 1977, reclaimed the 1PM slot and went to an 1 hour.

Agnes never would have left. Agnes wanted Loving at 1:30 PM. AMC from 12:30 to 1:30PM. ABC was not keen on the idea. RH did well in the demos in the late 70s and then went down. ABC wanted to make RH an hour and Claire refused. RH could have been 12PM to 1PM.

ABC eventually bough RH and then Loving from Nixon. By 1984, RH should have been canceled. Loving should have never made it to the 1990s. ABC was very eager for Loving but it never took off because of its first morning slot and then later too intense competition from Restless.

Nixon blamed ABC for Loving and she was right. AMC was moved for RH and Nixon wanted AMC moved for Loving. ABC did want another show from Nixon after Loving but she was over it. ABC paid Nixon over $15M for AMC and OLTL in 1975. ABC paid Nixon $50M for a consulting contract in the mid 80s to early 1990s. Nixon made her money and felt content.

8 hours ago, kalbir said:

Ryan's Hope run was 13 1/2 years. Loving run was 12 years. They were ABC's longest-running soaps other than their big three.

RH should have been canceled before 1989. ABC owned it so it had no incentive. Loving should have been canned by the late 80s but Agnes Nixon had clout at ABC. RH's ratings were horrible its last 7 years and should have been canned. ABC made 2 mistakes regarding them.