prefab1

Wow, people are so up in arms about this that I'm wondering whether I've missed something! Based on the spoiler pics that were posted, it looks to me like Laura might just be unconscious or in a coma. I'll be upset if the show actually does kill off Laura, but I'm willing to let the story actually play out before I make that judgment. 

Yeah, Monday's episode wasn't the most exciting, but I was delighted by Kate's schadenfreude at learning what a big mess Laura had made. I wasn't even watching back in the 1990s, but I still appreciate that the show takes the time to mine that character history. 

39 minutes ago, FrenchBug82 said:

 

That was way too old for me to have even heard about it and it is fascinating. I wonder what made soaps more comfortable "suiciding" two majors characters in the 60s vs the more current skittinishness.

TBH, the current skittishness is probably a good thing. There's a long and well-researched history of suicidal people being pushed over the edge by romanticized representations of suicide, dating back at least to Goethe's Sorrows of Young Werther. And I recall there was a lot of legitimate worry over how Netflix's teen series 13 Reasons Why presented suicide.

So I actually think this is one of the few ways that today's soaps are being more socially responsible than 1960s soaps were, by showing characters who are on the brink of committing suicide (like DAYS's JJ) but are pulled back by loved ones who convince them that suicide is the wrong option. I think that's the far more powerful message, that it's possible to come back from a state of crippling depression/suicidal ideation and live a happy life again. 

I think that as fans, we sometimes dwell on the parts of the show that disappointed us and don't give enough credit for the things a show gets right. Case in point: in this whole thread on gay representation in ATWT, I haven't yet seen anyone mention Reid Oliver, who is by far the most interesting gay character I've seen on American soaps. And his relationship with Luke was also the most compelling one I've seen on a US soap, proving to me that Luke (who I'd always found pretty vanilla and whiny, like his mom) could work really well if paired with a character he had actual chemistry with. 

Of course, the less said about what the show did to Reid in ATWT's final week on the air, the better...

39 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

I believe they blamed her mental issues in the 1990 story as a bad case of PTSD from her pregnancy with Shayne.

During the Peapack years, when GL tried to inject more realism into their stories, they revisited the theme of serious post-partum depression with Reva's stepdaughter Ava. These scenes, which I believe were from Michelle Ray Smith's last day on the show, are by far her finest work as Ava.

I thought of a recent example. JJ on DAYS was close to committing suicide after he accidentally shot Theo. Casey Moss submitted these scenes in his Emmy reel, and they were in fact quite powerful, even if the storyline itself had a lot of problems.

41 minutes ago, provocative said:

The Ben/Ciara stuff is physically painful. Are their "fans" actually enjoying this? How can any of this very pathetic fanservice be considered remotely good by anyone's standards?

I'd imagine that their diehard fans are enjoying all this fortune cookie true love nonsense, but I agree that it's painfully insipid. I'm just hoping that it's the prelude to writing Ben and Ciara off the show, because there's really no story left to tell with these two. 

Ron could have easily used Ciara's time off the canvas to generate some storyline possibilities. For instance, say that Ciara has amnesia, and she's fallen in love with Rhodes, the man she thinks rescued her, and when Ben finds her, she's terrified of him--she thinks that the Necktie Killer is stalking her for some reason. Yes, that's a cliched storyline, but it could at least generate months of interesting conflict. (Cut to: Ciara yelling at Marlena, "Are you insane, woman?! You're a psychiatrist, and you want me to get back together with a serial killer?!") But when this equally predictable Ciara's Kidnapping story wraps up in a couple of weeks, the two of them are just at a dead end. If they do wind up poisoning themselves a la Romeo and Juliet, it will be a mercy killing. 

20 minutes ago, FrenchBug82 said:

I managed to cringe SO hard at those ten seconds of Ben and Ciara as Romeo and Juliet and I am not even a Ben/Ciara hater.

Also, I am so bored with R&J being overused as the stand-in for any relationship that faces tragedy and obstacles. Sorry but R&J's family feud is a very specific circumstance that doesn't apply here.
Find new literary references, writers.

Yes, but Romeo and Juliet were both dumb as rocks, so that's one way in which they're similar to Ben and Ciara. 

12 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

I do have to admit though, out of the 5 writers that you mentioned, I think that Ron is the best. I know that's not saying much lol but I think he does know how to tell a story. The problem is a lot of stuff gets too silly and too clownish under Ron's pen. I like humor on soaps, but not that campy kind that he can't get enough of.  I prefer that kind of snarky, sarcastic, deadpan humor that you get from John Aniston's Victor. He still makes me laugh sometimes.

Usually soap headwriters get worse and worse over the years, because they use up their few good ideas in their first headwriting stint, and then it's just diminishing returns. But I think Ron is the rare soap-hopper who's actually gotten better with each jump. I didn't care for his OLTL very much, because a lot of the camp seemed crass. But I thought he rejuvenated GH, although he still had some bad writing tics--for instance, all the time he spent on introducing new "pet" characters like Sabrina. Now that he's working with producers who will rein in his worst impulses, as well as an excellent team of veteran writers like the Cullitons and David Kreizman, he's putting out much better work on DAYS. It's not to everyone's taste, but it's about as good as a limited-budget 21st century daytime soap is going to get.

That said, the Ben/Ciara stuff really sucks (and the addition of nu-Claire makes it suck even more). I think the writers themselves know it sucks, and they're not shy about broadcasting their contempt for Cin fandom--hence, the material on Friday's show that had Susan, the stereotypical "dumb housewife" viewer, "watching" the Ciara scenes on her mental television and reporting them to Ben like she's doing a soap recap. But that doesn't make the storyline suck any less. 

22 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

So far Linda has failed to capture Vivian's essence. But it's only her second episode. She's nervous and rusty. It also doesn't help that the story isn't any good.  I see poor Days is using Jarlena's set as Vivian's. Corday going to have do a GOFUNDME soon. 

I think Dano was a bit better at playing Vivian in today's episode, but the character is such a product of Sorel's unique loopy energy that any recast is going to have trouble. 

I normally like the show's use of camp, but today's episode was a bridge too far even for me. The Susan stuff was too over-the-top and all played at the same screeching level. And everything with Ben and Ciara and the fortune cookies was too stupid for words. If there's any character I'm rooting for in that storyline, it's her kidnapper Rhodes. Maybe Ben and Ciara can go ride off into the sunset together, and he could be our next "redemption story"; I mean, at least he's not a serial killer. 

6 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

Dano's Auntie Viv comes across too nice and reasonable. Ivan kidnapping the twins. For his beloved Madam doesn't work for me.

Agreed. I'm all for subverting viewer expectations, but Vivian has a good reason for wanting revenge on Lani, and it just would have made a lot more sense if she'd been plotting this kidnapping from the shadows and sent Ivan to execute it. 

41 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

OH LORD! Those flashbacks.

Those flashbacks were incredibly campy, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy them. Emily O'Brien did a pretty good American accent as Gwen's mom Tiffany, and Marci Miller's Missy Reeves impression was hilarious, as was Cady McClain's take on Jamie Lyn Bauer's fluttery affect. 

I still would have rather had someone on Jack's side of the family secretly paying Tiffany off, but I thought they gave a plausible explanation why Laura would do this. 

I liked today's Kristen scenes, but boy is it weird to me how her relationship with Marlena has changed in the past couple of years. Seeing her hug Marlena and break down sobbing in her arms just felt so wrong to me. 

Also, how great was it to see John Aniston again today? I'd been a little worried about his health, since he's been absent from so many scenes in this Phillip vs. Xander storyline. But he was looking pretty good today (and of course he acted the hell out of his scenes, as usual). 

1 hour ago, AlexElizabeth said:

My god... Michael and Willow are the most boring part of this show. I feel like they've been having the same scene for months. "Do we sign the annulment papers? What do we mean to each other?" BORING. They have no chemistry and are a complete snoozefest. If the show was smart they'd put Michael/Sasha and Willow/Chase back together and never tease the idea of Michael/Willow again. I literally groan every time they are on together.

If the show was smart, they'd kill off Sasha and Willow in some kind of sweeps month disaster and put Michael and Chase together. 

1 hour ago, AlexElizabeth said:

Camila Banus looks amazing, but this Gabi return is already so annoying. She looks pathetic. Time to go back to Arizona.

Right now, I'm preferring Jake with Kate, but Banus has only been back for a few days, so I'm happy to see how this triangle plays out. 

I'm baffled that even in a sweeps month, Y&R is still continuing this same sort of low-stakes, sleepytime storytelling. I do think some of this stuff might work if the characters were a little more likeable, and the actors were warmer. (I could imagine a storyline like "Billy introduces Lily as his new girlfriend, and conflicts ensue" would work just fine on a primetime family drama like Gilmore Girls or This Is Us). 

Another viable avenue would be to go back to the show's roots and emphasize how these people are all very rich and very unhappy--and how the two conditions are intimately related. That's what the show did in its early portrayal of Kay Chancellor, lonely alcoholic wife of a millionaire industrialist. But that would require a particular point of view that the show seems reluctant to present. 

So instead, they just end up in this uncanny valley where the characters are largely boring and cold and have endless mundane conversations about business and careers. If I hadn't watched back in the 1980s and 1990s, when I formed emotional connections to characters like Jill, Paul, Nina, and Lauren, I'd find it impossible to care about any of these people. 

I think taking some time off the show has actually done Galen Gering some good, because I've been really liking Rafe's scenes recently. He was a fun straight man in the lighter, comedic scenes with Gabi and Nicole today, and I thought he was great in those cat-and-mouse interrogation scenes with Charlie the other day. 

17 hours ago, Antoyne said:

It truly makes no sense. Please love me daddy while I destroy your life and ruin your family.

It makes sense to me, because I think that Gwen's primary objective is to make Jack and his family feel the same pain she felt for years when (in her mind) he rejected her. Of course, deep down that pain comes from a place of mourning and longing to be loved.

And eventually, after a few months, we might see some scenes of Gwen and Jack bonding. But this is in no way a tactical plan to win her father's love. 

14 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Hmmm

 

Maybe one of those 1980's ingenues like Martha Byrne.

Fiona Hutchison or bust. 

Episodes like today's make me wonder whether DAYS would ever be willing to "go there" and make Lani & Kristen a full-fledged couple. I mean, I like her just fine with Eli, but Lani seems way more touchy-feely with Kristen. 

2 hours ago, John said:

Could Laura still be the Mom

Maybe she had DID and Gwen's mom is a personality

Although Gwen just said her mom was dead, so that would be a little tough to retcon. 

8 hours ago, AlexElizabeth said:

Can we just stop with Ben and Ciara? It is time to put both of these characters to rest.

Maybe this storyline will lead the two of them to reunite and then ride off into the sunset together. I think the two actors actually have chemistry, but I agree there's no real story left for them, especially with Hope gone. 

Extended promo. Marci Miller doesn't pull her punches, LOL:

2 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

You're right. That's what Gwen said

IMO, you won't be disappointed. I think today's episode is great. Almost every scene has been good and the acting has been on point. 

 

But of course, I could've gone without today's round of Superhero Serial Killer lol

Agreed that this was an excellent episode (except for the Ben scenes). I especially like how the story Gwen told brings up some new mysteries. Is Jack actually her biological dad? And who, if not Jack, was paying her mother off every month? (Was it maybe someone like Harper or Angelica?) 

And Emily O'Brien is doing a great job showing us Gwen's pain and vulnerability, especially in that final scene where she's alone in her hotel room. 

54 minutes ago, RavenWhitney said:

So let me get this straight: for the last several months Ron has been running to identical plots: the bastard, previously unknown child out for revenge (Charlie and Gwen).  I see.

They are quite similar plots, but then again, this is a soap staple (see, for instance, the introduction of Carly on GH). And Charlie's motivations for coming to Salem were a little different, as he wanted to win his mother's approval by being her mole in Titan. But I'd still love to eventually see a scene where Gwen and Charlie meet, then commiserate over feeling unwanted compared to their "golden child" sibling. 

Also, I wish they'd gotten Jake involved in the Charlie reveal. Rather than that awkward scene where John and Steve fly to "Philadelphia" to rough up Ava's cousin Angelo, Jake (who was also involved in the Philly mob) could have simply run across Charlie in the town square and recognized him as Ava's son. 

I miss the days when soaps tried to address real social problems. I'm not just talking about their reluctance to depict the current pandemic, but also the way that--aside from maybe DAYS' somewhat botched attempt to do a Black Lives Matter story--they steer totally clear of the 21st century's political or economic issues.

We're not getting stories about homelessness or immigrants being deported or characters getting sucked into right-wing hate groups or anything else that might meaningfully connect to our current moment. As far as I know, no one's even an environmentalist or a vegetarian on any of these shows.

I mean, I still enjoy the soap that I regularly watch (DAYS), but I feel like it's in its own bubble, dictated by the generic conventions of 60 years of soaps and not touched by the outside world.