zanereed

This looks like either 1988 or 1989.

I don't think the Dobsons had any intention of marrying Alan and Hope. As you stated, I think Alan was going to take a darker turn towards Hope. With Roger no longer in Springfield, Alan could focus all his energies on getting Phillip back, and I think he was going to use Hope in order to do so. Again, the rumor I have heard for years is that had the Dobsons stayed on TGL, Phillip's parentage would have finally been revealed to him sometime in 1980 (either the spring or summer). This was supposed to have started a chain of events that would start new stories for Mike, Elizabeth, Justin, Alan, Hope, Diane, and one or two others. Jackie was supposed to have fled Springfield, but I don't know if that was temporary - meaning she would eventually come back played by a new actress - or semi-permanently. I can only assume that Alan's affair with Rita would have either already been in play or started later on in 1980, as well. I really wish we knew who the Dobsons had in mind for Amanda's mother, but it certainly wasn't anyone like Jennifer Richards. Court deserved so much better, as the character of Jennifer never did catch on. Plus, how would the Dobsons have written off Roger Thorpe...?

@Paul Raven - you called it. I can't remember if Stewart didn't get along with Court, or if he just didn't like the pairing. I think Stewart still wanted the Mike/Elizabeth pairing to be the endgame for Mike. However, Marland wanted Mike to be involved with Amanda's bio-mother, supposedly creating further tension with Alan and Hope.

The memory does play tricks on me, I'll admit, but I do not recall Ed Bryce reprising the role of Bill Bauer at all until August of 1983. Now, having Bill Bauer at Hope's wedding would have been such a Marland thing to do, but I don't remember Bill being on screen once the character left in 1978, even for a guest appearance.

I actually recall Bert maybe mentioning Meta when Bill died in 1983. Or Bert might have been mentioned Simone? The mind plays tricks on me nowadays...!

Now that is a great question. I don't remember that at all, unless it was done in passing. @vetsoapfan or anyone else watching during this time, do any of you recall this?

Marland absolutely handled Roger's wrap-up beautifully. No character deserved a spectacular ending more. He had the core characters who had an involved history with Roger involved (Holly, Ed, and Mike), which added to the impact. Where I think he failed was not really having a good plan of what to do with Holly, post-Roger. Maureen Garrett just seemed to be hanging around for most of the spring and summer. And you're right - Cindy Pickett was apparently never sticking around past the end of her contract in 1980, so Marland had zero time to focus on the Phillip parentage situation with her in the mix as Jackie. I assume Marland had eventual plans to reveal to Phillip that Jackie and Justin were his biological parents, but I'm curious as to how far out that was going to happen. A few of the key players in Springfield knew by early 1981 (such as Hope, for example), so I always figured it would have been in play by spring or summer of 1981, but that never occurred.

By 1982, I wish they had either moved Sara back into either Justin's orbit or into Mike's...or both. I never thought Sara and Adam worked well together. Meta Bauer certainly would have been more than welcomed in 1986 after they officially recognized Bert's passing on air. @Paul Raven , you might be right - Ellen Demming may have retired by that 1986. However, others on here have certainly posted good candidates who could have filled that role. The other "missing" Bauer who could have ushered additional Bauers onto the canvas would have been Bill and Meta's sister, Trudy. Although Trudy wasn't on screen much past the 1950's, she did marry Clyde Palmer and that they were living in New York. I think Clyde passed away in the 1970's, but I don't know that Trudy was ever mentioned again...?

Quick follow up question - was Meta on the show consistently, or was she there off and on for those 14 years? I seem to remember that she and Bruce moved away from Springfield around 1966 (Papa was thinking of moving away with them), and then returned around 1971. Is the latter correct, or was Meta around during the latter half of the 1960's?

Agreed. I think Demming would have been more than capable of reprising the role. Speaking of Meta, does anyone know why Irna Phillips decided to kill off Joe Roberts? I assume the actor wanted to leave the show? I haven't seen much footage of Meta's third husband, Bruce Banning, at all, so I don't know how their chemistry was. Going to Dick Grant...I never found the character appealing at all. He never seemed to fit in as a leading man. I thought Paul Fletcher was a more interesting character of the Springfield doctors prior to the Ed Bauer and Joe Werner years.

By that point, I wish Rauch had brought back both Hulswit and Stewart as Ed and Mike on contract. Hulswit for exactly the reasons you stated. For Stewart as Mike, I was amazed during the 60th Anniversary event at how many people Mike interacted with before he left for DC in 1984 that were still on the show. Plus (as I think we previously discussed), having Michelle's law-and-order uncle on the show when she was involved with the Danny and the mafia storyline would have lent more weight to it.

@Reverend Ruthledge , I can't argue why you liked Gentry in the role. Gentry's Ed was always intense, which absolutely worked with what they were writing from 1966 to 1969. Gentry was a great contrast to both Bill and an evolving Bert. I don't remember Gentry much as Ed, so thank goodness there is some of his work out there (though I have always wanted to see his work as Ed during his final months in 1968/1969). But as @vetsoapfan mentioned, MH was the one that, IMHO, brought into Ed some warmth along with the intensity. And Stewart definitely didn't have that Papa Bauer warmth, either. @Mitch64 - that's interesting that they tried to get Hulswit back. Do you happen to know when this was?

@vetsoapfan and I are very biased when it comes to Mart Hulswit as Ed 😁, aren't we? No one else who played Ed Bauer had both warmth and charm like Hulswit did. And yet Hulswit could turn it to irritation, anger, and even aggression at the drop of a hat if someone kept at him enough, which was mostly Roger Thorpe (to be fair). IMHO, Gentry lacked true warmth. Simon had zero charisma at all. Van Vleet was completely out of his depth. For example, could Hulswit's Ed take on Roger in a fist fight? Not likely, but he would absolutely try. Imagine Peter Simon as Ed Bauer in Santo Domingo chasing Roger Thorpe through the jungles in 1980. I'm just not seeing it. Hulswit's Ed might be difficult to imagine roaming around Santo Domingo, as well, but his Ed would act on complete instinct if someone he knew and loved was in danger. I think that eventually under the Dobsons, Mike and Elizabeth would have ended up together, as would Ed and Holly. I always thought Hulswit and Garrett had good chemistry.

Speaking of the Dobsons, I wanted to pick up on an earlier post about what they had planned moving forward if they would have been allowed to stay on TGL. Does anyone know if the Dobsons' original plan for Roger Thorpe truly was for Dr. Renee DuBois to alter Roger's face, so that Michael Zaslow could exit the show (as he wanted) and the Dobsons would have brought on a new actor to portray Roger? If not, I wonder how they would have let Roger exit the show...? I was told in the past that the Dobsons were finally going to reveal Phillip's true parentage to the entire town by the late spring of 1980. This would have resulted in Hope leaving Alan for a time, Justin and Elizabeth finally divorcing, and Jackie leaving town after a breakdown, as something was supposed to happen to Phillip. He would run away from home, I think is what I heard, and Jackie would blame herself for it and leave Springfield. I don't think Cindy Pickett was planning on staying past her contract when it expired in June, so it could be that Jackie left for a bit and returned later with a new actress portraying her...? Were the Dobsons always planning on killing off Lucille? I've heard conflicting stories. I have heard that the Dobsons never planned to actually marry Hope and Alan. Marrying them was all Marland. I'm not sure what the end goal was for Hope and Alan in the Dobsons' plans - does anyone venture a guess? I think the Dobsons did have someone in mind for Amanda's mother, but I was told that it would have been an original character of theirs versus Jennifer Richards, who was an original of Marland's. Does anyone know if they had something in mind for the mother...? I don't think Rita and Ed were the final game plan for the Dobsons - would Ed and Holly have eventually reunited? Would Elizabeth and Mike finally have ended up together after she divorced Justin...? What were their plans for Hillary and Katie...? I'm trying to determine if the Dobsons would have redeemed Ross, or left him as the black sheep of the Marler family? It would have been fun to see Hope break up with Alan and start dating Ross. Neither Alan nor Mike would probably have been thrilled.

Thank you for alerting me to this @DRW50 . It is always great to see the original families from the TV years.

There were two people that Marland did not like when he inherited TGL - Mart Hulswit and Lezlie Dalton. Hulswit because he was critical of the writing, apparently too critical according to Allen Potter. Marland allegedly convinced Potter to fire Hulswit so he could replace him with a more dashing, leading man. Potter said later on (I wish I could find the source - it was in a book I read on soaps, in general) that he regretted doing it, and he would never be convinced liked that again. In regards to Dalton, I don't know what issue Marland had with her. It seemed that Marland had no idea how to write for Holly, or didn't care to. I think Marland was always going to write out Peter eventually, so the obvious play would be to put Holly back in Ed's orbit again. Sara never was interesting again after Dean Blackford died. I really wish the Dobsons would have pivoted in 1979 and had Mike Bauer and Sara get closer, post Dean's death (due to the trauma Sara faced). Then eventually add in Hope by March of 1979, and it would have been the Jackie/Justin/Sara/Mike/Alan/Elizabeth entanglement. The Dobsons didn't seem to know what to do with Sara, though, other than having her go back to being essentially being in a supporting role. I LOVE your idea about Brandon and a male heir/trust angle "threat" to Alan. Add to that Brandon could have made it a point that the first child Alan had must be a male heir. Meaning, Alan had to make certain to ask the doctor for a male child. Had other writers picked up on this or if the Dobson's would have used this premise, Brandon could have blackmailed Alan after finding out about Alan's liaison with Amanda's mother resulting in Alan's firstborn being a daughter (whether the mother of Amanda turned out to be Jennifer Richards or someone else).

There are some episodes up on YT from June and July of 1984 that feature Mike and Alex. Looking back, I wonder if Stewart knew his days were numbered. Mike didn't give any speech at all during the Springfield Founders Day event in August of 1984. I think Bert wasn't available because of Charita's health, but the fact that the second longest running character on the show didn't give any speech concerning Springfield, and that a speech was given by none other than H.B. Lewis (who had only been on the show for about a year) made zero sense. As far as the Reardons go, I agree with @P.J. - I don't really think they had a true direction for the family once Marland quit.

@DRW50 - you are very welcome. Again, who knows how accurate any of this, especially 41-odd years later. The things I believe the most out of all of it are that the Mike/Lillian/Alexandra love triangle was supposed to play out for most of 1984, and lead to ramifications with the Beth/Lujack romance, along with Kobe definitely firing Don Stewart at some point in August.

Exactly. Take these things with a grain of salt. I've heard that Hillary's death was Kobe's call to add more weight/excitement to the story (she said something along those lines). But by the time of Hillary's funeral, Ed was recast, Mike was written out, and the only anchor they had was Bert being there. So, was Mike supposed to go to Barbados for Hillary as well as rescue Alex? I really would love to see Long's actual story projections for all of 1984. Supposedly the P&G video archive began in September of 1979, which should have all the episodes with Brandon Spaulding and his death. I was hoping when that first German "Guiding Light" DVD set came out a few years ago that it would begin with those September episodes. Instead, it began in November of 1979. Maybe the September episodes are no longer in the archive.

You may be absolutely right! I'm trying to remember who actually interacted with Brandon before his death in and around September of 1979. I do remember Lucille being with him, but was anyone else? I honestly can't remember, other than Lucille. I assume Alan was...? I was very young at the time, so I can't recall. Regarding 1984 and the November Babados storyline - all I was able to gleam years ago was that Mike - still apparently upset with Alex at that time (for whatever reason, that wasn't clear) decides to go to Barbados to both help rescue Alex and to get some type of revenge for the death of Hillary. Lillian doesn't want Mike to go, but he does it, anyway. The point of this was to bring Mike and Alex back together and to legitimize Brandon's sudden reappearance. And you are correct - if Mike helped Brandon with his will, it would tie him in some way to Brandon besides just Alex accepting his return. I never found out if Pam Long had anything else planned for Mike Bauer beyond 1984. I've been told that Mike was going to have to make a tough choice at Christmas, whatever that meant. I assumed it would mean being with either Lillian or Alex. Hell, it could have meant choosing between regular and decaf 😆.

From what I gleamed, the set up was Lillian dating Mike to start. Alexandra was to become fascinated with "Mr. Law and Order" by the late spring/early summer of 1984. You can see Alex and Mike's relationship developing on some of the June and July episodes available on YT. Alex would even use Lujack as leverage to keep in Mike's orbit, trying to get Mike to help free Lujack from The Galahads. Mike was still dating Lillian at the time of the Founders Day event in August of 1984, but shortly thereafter Mike Bauer was gone from Springfield, completely. I don't remember Mike ever having an exit scene at all, despite what has been written on some sites. I wish more episodes from late August and early September 1984 would become available to actually confirm when Don Stewart's last appearance was. I have never seen the original story outline for Mike/Lillian/Alexandra, but Mike was supposed to eventually go to Barbados to help rescue Alexandra from Susan Piper and to legitimize Brandon Spaulding's surprise return from the dead (though I don't believe Mike had ever actually met Brandon Spaulding previously). I don't know if this was to be the event that finally brought Mike and Alexandra together or not...?

I completely agree - they should have brought back Hope back in 1987 before an 18 year old Alan-Michael, whether played by Elvera Roussel again or by someone new. Eventually A-M could have been brought back to Springfield, but they could have brought Hope to feud with Alan first. I would have finally put Ross and Hope together, for instance. Even though I have Stewart as my avatar, I agree that they could have recast Mike Bauer back in 1984. I am assuming that the issue was that Stewart was still massively popular with the audience, since he and Charita were the longest running cast members at the point. Plus, Pam Long did want to write for Mike, since he was an older leading man in Springfield that was single! Long had planned out a love triangle for Mike, Lillian, and Alexandra that would have had repurcussions for Beth and Lujack. Stewart and McKinsey didn't apparently get along, so that story didn't progress the way it was supposed to. I was told that Kobe had enough, and informed Stewart while he was out playing golf that his contract wasn't being renewed. I thought that was just hot air, but I seem to remember Roger Newcomb verified that story in this very thread years ago! I think Stewart came back for the 60th Anniversary in 1997 because Paul Rauch was the producer at that point. I wish both Peggy and Billy had returned to Springfield, especially once Roger was back in 1989. I think having Billy Fletcher back (although you are absolutely correct- he would need to have a new first name!) versus introducing a new son in Hart would have had a much bigger impact.

I think all those succeeding teams didn't care for a core family like the Bauers. The Spauldings and Lewises always seemed to be more attractive. Plus, once they SORAS'd the hell out of Alan-Michael in 1987 to 18 (born in 1981), it probably would have been tricky to bring on at least Hope due to this. My issue with removing the Bauers was that a core family with a rich history was gutted in about year. By the end of 1984, Ed was recast for the second time in 3 years, Hillary and Bill were killed off for no good reason (though Ed Bryce was really brought back in a guest role to finish Bill Bauer's story), Mike and Hope were completely written off, and Charita passed away off screen. It was Ed and Rick remaining, with Michael O'Leary having a little over a year under his belt and (IMHO) Richard Van Vleet being completely miscast as Ed. I still think that Kobe planned to recast Mike Bauer once she fired Don Stewart. Meaning, Mike Bauer would leave for Washington DC temporarily in September of 1984 and return by October or November with a new actor - just in time to rescue Alexandra in Barbados and to add further legitimacy to Brandon Spaulding's return. However, when Peter Simon didn't resign with the show, they quietly wrote Mike Bauer off to Washington DC, never to return.

I think Kobe's emphasis was more on plot versus character, which is why she was just fine in firing most of the people she did. If anyone pushed back on something planned for their character, they were expendable. Better to have Pam Long create a new character played by a new actor than to try to placate a beloved vet. I was told that the only exception to this was Charita Bauer, who Kobe liked and admired. Apparently Kobe gambled that she could completely change the show to her image (to be fair, as most producers did) without pushback as long as Bert Bauer was on the show. Obviously, Charita's untimely death put that theory completely to rest. This is why I never thought Long and Kobe meshed well. Long seemed to thrive writing for characters versus big events (i.e. Susan Piper/Barbados/back-from-the-dead Brandon Spaulding to start with...).

There are probably a few more episodes out there from the Dobson's run. I believe Roger Newcomb from "We Love Soaps" confirmed on this board back when Soap Classics DVD program was in existence that at least 2 1976 episodes existed in the Proctor and Gamble archive, but unfortunately they were never issued. Thankfully Roger got the 2 1977 episodes and the 1973 Papa Bauer funeral episode released.