Lust4Life76

19 hours ago, j swift said:

What I think is so nuts about the summer of Silver, Erica, and Jenny modeling in New York was how much of the plot was directly lifted from classic films.  The iconic images of Erica modeling are directly influenced by images of Audrey Hepburn in Funny Face

Silver's story is obviously cribbed from All about Eve

and there are shades of A Place in the Sun in Jenny's story, and the shady photog who tried to take topless pics was taken directly from the movie Fame.

Copying classic films was a "thing"  on soaps at the time, and at ABC in particular, but I wonder if today's audience would tolerate such direct plagiarism?

Hmmm... the Hollywood "Golden Era" classics that "AMC" decided to emulate in my opinion actually complimented those storylines - given that most of them orbited around Erica's character, whom if I recall LOVED celebrity and yearned to be in the movies. But not in a way that "GL"'s Nola Reardon, or "LOVING"'s Ava Rescott fantasized. For Erica, her life was the movies? But going back to your original question, as soaps advanced into the 90's, I feel like each show still tried to emulate pop culture in a sense but maybe in the vein of what was popular and not a total crib - say a movie like "Basic Instinct" became the rage - you almost saw some kind of film noir/diabolical plot on "Y&R"; or wasn't the affair Duke had on Anna with Olivia on "GH" based on the popularity of "Fatal Attraction"? I do remember one homage, was given the popularity of "The Fabulous Baker Boys" Leanna on "Y&R" got on top of a piano and crooned like she was Michelle Pfeiffer. And who could forget "Ryan's Hope" attempt at "King Kong" with an escaped gorilla coming for antagonist Delia Reid Ryan Coleridge :)

22 hours ago, j swift said:

I think this was discussed recently on another thread about 80s news and gossip when Ms Lyman did an interview about taking the role on Generations and there were a few conclusions, (1) she was run ragged from the commute btw NY and LA at the start of series, and AMC had not been accommodating about her schedule, which may have soured the relationship,(2) she had developed an active directing career while working on Mama's Family and got many opportunities behind the scenes elsewhere, and (3) NBC was desperate at the time she was cast on Generations and they offered the kind of money that was not previously discussed on AMC.

Thank you, J, for answering in more detail. I tried to search and find the discussion but couldn't. I been watching "Mama's Family" all last month into this month (now since Betty White passed), and this just sort of crossed my mind. I hadn't started watching "All My Children" regularly until I learned Jill Larson, who was so wickedly fun in her work as Ursula Blackwell on "One Life to Live", was to be cast as Opal. Shortly after I started watching Larson's debut in November, "AMC" was embracing it's 20-year mark, and they showed a brief glimpse of Lyman's work - I always adored her as Naomi Harper, but the more and more I saw of Lyman as Opal, I fell in love with what she did.

QUESTION - does anyone know why Opal was recast back in 1989? I feel like "Mama's Family" had wrapped up by then, Dorothy Lyman would have been available... 

I felt like Victor Lord being sexually abusive to Viki was a risk, and it sort of depends who you ask as to whether it paid off or not... for me personally, not quite.

I will not deny the story was well-written or articulate, as it occurred during the Malone era that was touted as the most literate of daytime. But I couldn't see Victor Lord, as Agnes Nixon intended, as a pedophile or a rapist. I could see a business associate, an 'uncle' or close friend of the Lord family (maybe with a little stunt casting) as the offender, but Victor? He was already so many things - overbearing, aristocratic, opposing his own moral standards in lieu of his own weaknesses, and yes... he bankrolled an underground commune (which was another story risk in itself). But to make him commit the ugliest sin a parent can inflict on a child? I felt like Erika Slezak (Viki) had inferred in interviews, ruined that character, irrevocably and would have devastated some of the previous actors who played Victor Lord...

And though I can appreciate the opportunity to tell more story arose from Victor Lord reimagined as the ultimate evil, bringing him back from the dead in cahoots with Mitch Laurence to kidnap both his granddaughters Jessica and Natalie and harvesting their organs to save him from from heart illness... That was just off the rails, insanity. 

3 hours ago, Fevuh said:

I don't remember if it had ever been done before, but I remember one that was shocking for me that I hadn't seen...but I was a teenager at the time - mid 80's? So maybe someone had already done it.  But I believe the depth with incest that As the World Turns went with Angel Lang, and her abusive father, Henry - and her romance with Caleb Snyder...I believe being blamed for getting Angel pregnant, to find out that (she lost the baby??)...but she was pregnant by her own father, not Caleb.  

I feel like this was ATWT's head writer Douglas Marland's continuation of Lily's story from "LOVING", but we'll never know because ABC couldn't support it's new soap long enough for it to be successful. 

55 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Shouldn't this be posted in the Bold from the Beginning tthread?

Oh, I don't know, I thought by asking I was 'discussing the soaps', sorry. I anticipate it will be moved. Good Night!

I feel like the risk of all risks, was the Corinth Serial Killer on LOVING killing off the entire Alden family... and then the LOVING's revamp to becoming THE CITY, a soap which exercised more diversity, innovation and always had a very Aaron Spelling vibe. It ended way too soon. 

On 10/30/2021 at 6:21 PM, ironlion said:

AMC - Re writing history and making Kendall Erica's daughter. It set up years of story with the fantastic Sarah Michelle Gellar.

True, true, but I always wanted Kendall to be Tom Cudahy's daughter, lol. Like ditch the statutory rape, and base the idea of Erica's secret child on the fact after her disco closed, and Tom ended their marriage that Erica left town (around the time Susan Lucci took time off to have her second child), only to learn the child she tried to avoid having with Tom she was NOW pregnant with, only to be so far along in the pregnancy she couldn't abort, and still wanting a career in modeling she decided to put Kendall up for adoption. That would have shook things up in a more localized way... and given veteran Richard Schoberg something substantial after the death of his daughter by Brooke. 

On 10/30/2021 at 9:56 PM, Franko said:

@titan1978's choice of the Y&R reboot is a good one. I'll go with similar and even more extreme -- Dark Shadows going all-in on the supernatural with the introduction of Barnabas. Talk about an answered Hail Mary!

For the most part yes...  but I always feel there was a storyline pre-Barnabas, that was instrumental in going that direction. There was the supernatural tale of Roger Collins' estranged wife Laura (aka 'The Phoenix'. Hers was an eerie story of reincarnation and I firmly believe, with the show closer to the axe, the writers gave it a try to see if the ratings would improve and if they could do something bolder in what was to follow, which was that in our friend Barnabas Collins. 

On 10/30/2021 at 2:19 PM, Vee said:

For better or worse, OLTL took huge risks with both the Marty gang rape story and the DID revisit of the 1990s and both, in their own ways, paid off tremendously. For good or ill they became singular achievements and forever redefined swaths of characters and parts of the canvas - people may despise Todd Manning, or find him a relic of the past now (as I do despite once finding him a favorite), but he was tremendously galvanizing and popular for the show. Later years, of course, took all the wrong lessons from both of these stories. OLTL should never have touched DID again, at least not with Viki's family. And Todd, don't get me started.

I totally agree with you... I am watching the first season of "Bold and the Beautiful" right now, and it opens as you may or may not know with several stories depicting violence towards women with the character of Brooke Logan getting attacked, but then Caroline Spencer being raped. And though it's an earnest story, the work Michael Malone put out there depicting Marty's experience was something unparalleled by any show before or since. Poor Marty could not get a break, and it was months after her attack that she would even be believed without all the other characters basing their presumptions on her given a bad reputation that preceded her. My only issue with the storyline was Marty was a character that came out of the blue with no connection to anyone or any family on the canvas except for having lupus the same time fan favorite Megan Gordon Harrison did...

There was that same bone of contention I had with the revisiting of the DID storyline. The story was beyond compelling, but the fact it was done to our heroine Viki at the hand of a well-established, legacy character like Viki's father, Victor Lord? I could see it being a business associate or close family friend and that Victor's betrayal of Viki would have been to believe the associate/friend over his own daughter (but maybe that was too much like Erica's rape on "All My Children"?) 

I also felt though the teen-age homosexuality on "One Life" was an incredible story of outreach - I wish they would have kept it centric to the core Buchanan family, and that Joey, or even Kevin, had been the gay child. I wanted to see it impact Viki and Clint directly, though Clint as the homophobic parent never ever jived with me, or for that matter: the actor, or the audience! I would have rather seen Phil Carey's Asa show his bigotry which that character was more prone to do, than the more worldly Clint ever would have...

As for the character of Todd Manning... I just never cared for him from the privileged frat boy, to the anti-hero he became, at least no more than some cared for the conflicted Luke Spencer of yesteryear. But while Luke was redeemable, I thought Todd initiated so many gross inhumanities against characters, that I never felt comfortable having him around. There was no redemption found in him, even when he secretly was revealed to be a Lord heir, and there was no poetic justice like there had been with "One Life's" characters from the past (ex. Brad Vernon raped sister-in-law Karen Wolek, went to prison where off screen, but alluded to, Brad was raped by an inmate). Unless you count the Margaret Cochran story as Todd's retribution, but even that was somewhat campy, with emotional beats few and far between...

I am watching the first season as it is continuously made available on YouTube, and it's fun to see B&B's genesis... but question about Beth Logan... The character was originally played by Judith Baldwin, known for replacing Tina Louise as Ginger on a "Gilligan's Island" reunion movie. Ms. Baldwin was featured for all of three weeks? Was there a reason she left so early? Was it unexpected as Ms. Baldwin's vanity shot in the opening continued to be shown well into her replacement's Nancy Burnett (the actress most associated with the role...) debut?

Hi there,

  With the sporadic uncovering's of Classic OLTL episodes from the late 70's and 80's, I am very intrigued with Llanview's local landlady Ina Hopkins and her haven for some of the show's beloved characters.

I know Ina lived/owned the property, but who else lived there?

I know Karen Wolek did, after she broke up with Larry given her secret life turning tricks...

Katrina Karr... Karen's hooker friend lived there, and was Ina's business partner in a local restaurant... 

Ed Hall, after his divorce from Carla...

Did Marco Dane when he masqueraded as his twin brother Mario?

Did Herb Callison when he separated from Dorian?

I think Faith Kipling, Johnny Drummond, and Cassie(almost?) As well as Melinda? and Becky Lee? 

How was Ina written out of the story? Did she move with Kat to be a live-in babysitter to Kat's daughter Mary?

I wish she, Ina, would have stayed in Llanview throughout the 80's and 90's... I liked the boarding house motif and the surrogate families it created...

Thanks,

Erik

40 minutes ago, ironlion said:

The quality and rush to production required to write a scripted series airing 5 days a week is why I've grown to be critical of the 5 day new episode model.

I wish they would just go back to 30 minutes. People would make time for multiple shows. Even an hour is overly generous and nowadays you have to burn a lot of story where typically you build towards most things (my friend Daniel helped me figure that one out )

@ironlion I know, despite their criticisms Frank and Ron, I feel, do better when together...and a lot of actors admire their ethic. But I've never worked with them, so I don't know what it would be like...

Sometimes, I fantasize about being a soap writer, professionally, outside what I have done personally and performed locally. But honestly, I fuss with my work A LOT, just because I want it to be perfect. In Daytime, you have such a short time to get your episode written and ready for review and record. I am sure they are doing the best they can in today's era...where back in the day if you wanted soaps you had to watch the big 3 networks...Now, you have choices x infinity, plus reruns of golden eras if you want.

5 minutes ago, ironlion said:

Why was this after she brought General Hospital significant acclaim and awards in the 90s? 

Because for ABC it came down to money. Wendy Riche probably was expensive, and I think people were telling me networks were looking at downsizing (even in the late 90's), and who should take the first cut in spite of it all? Management...and with Riche gone, all the usual suspects took her place, and "General Hospital" began to go downhill...same with "One Life" and "Children"...

2 minutes ago, Lust4Life76 said:

...people were telling me networks were looking at downsizing (even in the late 90's)...

When a friend told me in 2001 that in 5 years only a few soaps would be left I couldn't believe it - but slowly but surely, of ten shows..."Port Charles", "Passions", "Guiding Light", "As The World Turns", "All My Children", and "One Life to Live" were cancelled, leaving...as predicted...a few soaps

How about the premiere cast of characters for LOVING?

A newscaster with a liberal media bias...a progressive priest...and a nurse who works with AIDS patients...and not one storyline that involved any one of them or their respective topics? Let alone the compelling incest story that masterfully executed but then dropped all for the network's sake of marketing a movie of the week that dealt with the same topic...

Was 20 characters too much for a 30 minute program? 

1 hour ago, FrenchBug82 said:

"...if polluted by all the padded-on extra plot-driven storylines (the marriage, the murder etc)..."

Oh God yes, the fact itself that Michael Cambias had this obsession with sexing Bianca, which only led to her rejecting him because of who she was, and his grudge for not having her and then the act of rape itself, is a testimony of toxic masculinity. That could have been a character study (no for anti-heroism) rather than a catapult for the usual soap opera conventions. 

On 4/5/2021 at 12:22 PM, Faulkner said:

I mean, he’s not a bad actor. He just was never talented or charismatic enough to warrant the elevated profile he received.

You say it perfectly. I never understood his mania. Like Camron/Ryan showed up in Pine Valley one day and it was like "Oh, he's interesting..." but then he began to dominate the show that had been an ensemble cast, a community, for 25 years. I resented that.

4 hours ago, Skin said:

Her last real storyline was probably the Betty Ford clinic one after that she just felt so unrelatable in so many aspects, and it felt like the entire universe just sort of fell to its feet to help her whenever the occasion arose. Men desired her, the world couldn't get enough of her, and everything she ever wanted was just within arms reach.

Yes, THANK YOU!! There was no "full circle" with Erica. She went through a period of emotional, hard Life experiences that led up to immense recovery and her sobriety as a metamorphosis. Only months later, for her to go into stealing a baby to punish her husband and sister-in-law for having an affair, and tricking a mentally disabled woman into aiding her? And then FINALLY giving Jackson, who had waited patiently for her despite all her previous snubs and inability to commit to him. It was sad. Because Susan Lucci deserved more adult 'treatment'...

I will say this, the work Susan Lucci did, when she said good-bye to Kendall the first time (when Kendall was Sarah Michele Gellar), was Erica at her most adult. It was raw, it was sad...I don't care what was going on behind the scenes with the actresses - it was like Erica was becoming stronger. 

On 4/4/2021 at 9:30 AM, ajsp35801 said:

Funny how you're the only person that mentioned any Black characters except for the one person who mentioned Jessie on AMC when daytime seems to be in a perpetual struggle with it's Black characters. Instead all I'm seeing are white characters these shows had out front and center in story after story who just so happened to get a bad one.  LoL

  After all was said and done with Ellen Holly's original storyline...what prevented Agnes Nixon, or Gordon Russell/Sam Hall from approaching her and asking her (or even Lillian Hayman) about themselves that they could draw story from? On another note, isn't that why Victoria Rowell esteemed Bill Bell for just talking to her which in turn helped add credibility to the stories he was trying to tell about Dru?

  I  seem to remember in the 90s a lot of soap publications heralding the arrival of a promising new black presence on any number of shows...only for that character (characters) to show up, and then be phased out within a year...l mean, on "One Life" Troy Nichols showed up in Llanview with his son Kerry, along the same time Shelia Price showed up with her sister Rika...and within no time three out of the four were written out with Sheila becoming involved with Hank Gannon, and those two languishing on some serious backburner.

  Can I ask, what people thought about the writing for Diahann Carroll's "Dominique" on DYNASTY? What about the people of color on the reboot of DYNASTY?

On 4/3/2021 at 6:04 PM, Skin said:

It's like they are frozen in time, cast into different roles but never living up to what they were initially designed for. Someone with vision is needed to mature these characters, but without the investment they are just old husks of what they once were.  

That's a great articulation on how I felt, as others have suggested, about Erica Kane in the mid-90s! It was like would she just stop marrying everyone for a moment and enjoy her sobriety and enjoy herself without having to revert to antics she had literally outgrown in the 70s and 80s...?!

Regarding Sean and Tiffany of "General Hospital" fame, I believe Claire Labine did know how to write for them, she just called them "Kevin" and "Lucy"...

Michael Malone did write Tina-esque antics, like it would be totally plausible for Tina to fall in love with her illegitimate brother, find out he an imposter and then still love him anyways, lol...But her most recent almost "incestuous" subplot was all during this odd "VC Andrews" period of the show where incest was already being told center stage between Viki and her father Victor; with intermezzos of Viki's own alter Niki Smith making odd plays towards her own son Joey and illegitimate brother Todd.

The one character I feel Michael Malone did malign during his tenure, was Clint Ritchie's "Clint Buchanan", by making him a homophobe in what was a break through coming out story. That one hurt because Clint Buchanan was the "Every Dad" with how he loved his children, and now you had him taking a stance that if the character translated into real life, would have broke my heart that he did not have my back. I thought that was careless.

8 minutes ago, mikelyons said:

As close as we'll get to the original theme from AS THE EARTH TURNS. This is from the original pilot, which was used to sell the show & never aired on television.

 

 

"…This, then, is the broad base of our storyline. We would like to stress the point of “AS THE EARTH TURNS” is not a melodrama. It is the story of people. It might well be said that the life of each of us is a serial story. Heredity and environment shape our destinies. As it is true for us, so it is true for the Hughes family. The experiences of these people are predictable as the changing seasons, and as unpredictable as nature itself. What happens to them to so many of us who are subject to the many influences, pressures, of everyday living in this particular era - an era that is breeding insecurity, feat, almost futility. But as long as this is a springtime and a harvest, as long as the earth turns, nothing is futile."

That the world within the world Irna Phillips is creating is a nuanced representation of the world she lived in. And that the Hughes family is her "seed", and that despite the problems of the day "ATWT" was created, she is providing an escape, a celebration of the home, to take the viewers mind off of the problems of the day. What do you all draw from it? 

37 minutes ago, mikelyons said:

It's a valid point!

Thank you  Copyright is understandable, I understand that much. And that would detour a lot of people to try to copy, or emulate the style of writing that the respective creator is known for and then try to pass it off as their own.  I think when I looked at "As The World Turns" bible I found it was a nice example in the sense the late Irna Phillips wrote it from the heart, and made it a romantic, very personal creation. But then I wondered are all bibles created equal? What takes did her pupils Agnes Nixon and Bill Bell employ to sell their "worlds" without end. I think if there were access to these materials budding writers could examine their own characters and stories effectively. The way Agnes alleged to have done, per Peter Bergman, who received a character bible for Dr. Cliff Warner upon being hired so he knew where things involved him and other characters story-wise). The bible, a marvelous set of instructions, a gift of oxygen so your brain child may have the ability to flourish and grow. I have to wonder what Charles Pratt's bible for "Models Inc" looked like. Don't get me wrong, I loved that show - but I'd have to wonder. And did Charles Pratt create "Sunset Beach" too for Aaron Spelling?

2 minutes ago, mikelyons said:

One of the things with bibles that haven't been made public is that the archives know who's been in and can easily track who shared them. 

What are they trying to do in preventing the story bibles from being shared? I would think they would want to make them accessible in order to educate those who want to create serials or any other type of work? And I mean the towns of Pine Valley, Llanview, Corinth, etc., have already come and gone in their creation, so there isn't any way to plagiarize the work - people just want a rough idea on how to create their own worlds without end based on these bibles the creators all speak of. Forgive the simplicity of that question, but I think had I had access to an example I would have been like EUREKA!

24 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

We had a couple of conversations about AW, and how she learned to speak English by watching the show.   

I thought she was very intriguing, because she had such a love for the soap genre and wanted to tell incredible stories. It was like "just hire her already!" I mean if the passion is there?!

Re: [S.W.S.N.B.N.]...

  Why do I remember her being in the soap opera news 10 years ago? I show on IMDB.com she was a writer for "Days of our Lives", but I always felt she had a connection to "One Life to Live" too?