titan1978

15 hours ago, Donna B said:

Another thing I've read about Monty is what she did first & that was re-light the show. If the set were all dark when she got there & the ratings were in the toilet, then, you know, morale was abysmal when she came on. I've always wondered if that "smart cookie" exec in the movie TOOTSIE was an intentional homage to Monty.

It was.  I read an interview with Susan Pratt and she mentioned Hoffman visiting the set, interviewing some of the cast and watching filming, hanging backstage, etc.

I think Gloria had an eye for talent, and could spot chemistry, and knew what to do with it.  Because even when her show was not well written (outside of Marland’s tenure and both of Falken-Smith’s), it was still compelling and entertaining television.

As far as Luke goes- the Labine era made me love him.  He was still dangerous (all that Frank Smith stuff), and wasn’t really a “hero”, but he had so many rich relationships and had chemistry with all of them.  Sonny, Lucy, Bobbie, Lucky, Tony, Robin, Stone- not just with Laura.  I loved his relationships with those people.

The thing about Tony that drives me crazy as a fan of this show is he was always trying to sell a Luke I did not see on screen as the version of Luke.  I get he didn’t want to be turned into Steve Hardy, but he he was elected mayor!  At the height of his original run he was everything he claimed he hated about the character once Labine arrived, and blamed it on her.

If anything, Laura was the one that kind of lost her way under Labine.  Guza’s first tenure as HW brought her back.

41 minutes ago, Vee said:

 

Plenty of us do. Or plenty of us have. Whenever we do go back our feelings are justified again. The shows are bad, not simply the BTS shenanigans. If you don't feel that way fine, but you can't argue with the numbers. They're rock bottom because the shows suck, period.

They are bad.  It was one thing when it had been a steady decline for almost two decades.  But just a couple of years ago they were all on a viewership upswing and were getting positive press about it.  And they each squandered that with bad writing hires and terrible stories, bad casting decisions (including killing people they should not have killed off), and just general mismanagement.  Except they did it in two years, instead of 10 years.

It’s a shame, and some of it could have been avoided.

20 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

The thing is, when I watch, say, episodes of ‘70s/early ‘80s GL or AMC, the men never lacked for agency or complexity or masculinity yet the shows still recognized that soaps were a feminine genre. Go figure.

Same with GH in the 1980’s era.  Anna and Felicia could be strong without robbing Robert, Duke, or Frisco of any of their masculinity.

Until the spa storyline, I really enjoyed his work on ATWT.  There were other pockets I liked beyond that, but I truly enjoyed his early period on the show.

I really respected his comments when he got hired, about re-reading Marland’s bibles and just how good the storytelling had been.

When it all started, I loved Rose, Katie, Simon, and most of what he did.  Couldn’t stand Katie by the time I stopped watching, but I loved her in the beginning.

Did he write Luke coming out and the teen serial killer, or was that all Passanate?

He had a horrible tendency to kill legacy characters off.  But all the shows did by that point too.

On 9/23/2019 at 6:13 AM, dragonflies said:

Wow you know how bad the writing is when an actor even says WTF

 

 

I have never respected him more

Didn’t Corday give her a diamond necklace when she left the first time?  I remember reading she got a really nice gift.

I had completely blocked out that they brought Paul Hornsby back.

Ron should have stuck to the story for Bill, and spun out another story using the Luke backstory he created.  Both would have been great without the DiD mess.

I also loved Julia.  And truthfully, I liked Jenny Eckert, Sly, and Mac.  And Paul Hornsby.

Bill though-  just awful.  When Tony and Genie came back together as Luke and Laura, it was like a lightbulb went off.  I totally got why Tony was a big deal, and why they were great together, and how much Genie really shines playing Laura.  As Bill I couldn’t stand him.

Monty cast some good actors when she came back, and the characters were solid for the most part.  It was just a mess of way too many changes, and sidelining of characters that were at that time integral to the show.  If she hadn’t bombed so spectacularly, we would not have gotten Riche/Labine and that would have been a real shame.

I just can’t anymore with this show.

You don’t build an entire wing of a family with retcons then kill them all off within 4 months.

Monica deserved better, the fans of the show deserve better, and the legacy of the show deserves better.

I have never been one of the just cancel it brigade.  But these kinds of decisions make me think they don’t care about the product they are making.  So why should I?

I just started the oldest episode in that ABC online Sonny collection.

And I feel like a hypocrite.  Because I would take Carly married to Jax, Elizabeth and Jason as a couple, Kate Howard (original version), the old Metro Court lobby, and Claudia and Johnny any day over what is mostly there now.  And at the time I complained all the time about no Laura (even though Genie wanted to come back), and how Sonny centric the show was.  Maurice was also still very attractive in that 2008 show.

That Michael was always annoying to me though.

I forgot how awesome Sarah was as Claudia!  What a waste!

I can’t watch Monica grieve any more.

The character deserves better.

Any word on Genie?  I’m pretty sure she signed for one year, contingent on having a story, and we have to be coming up on the end of her contract.

1 hour ago, AdamNewmanFan said:

How do primetime soaps do in ratings?

How do we even quantify this anymore?  What is airing that we would call a Knots Landing or Melrose Place etc?

Grey's Anatomy is close to a pure network soap, in that the entire show (even the events) are about how the characters relate emotionally to each other- romantic, family, friendships.  It has maintained very strong ratings over its entire run.  This is Us is a soap to me too, also high ratings.  

But everything that is not a done in one procedural is a form of continuing drama, and most of those have soap elements.  Even something like The Walking Dead has some soapy elements.

I think we have already seen what Josh is capable of.  Several times.  I do not think Angelica was dictating all story to him.  Chelsea was removed during her time and brought back during her time.  And is pointless.

He is hack adjacent- not quite the Carlivati, Passanante, Higley or Brad Bell type.  More like a boring McTavish.  Clearly some talent, but firmly in the land of hackery.

What this type of thing signals to me is that these networks do not see a need for daytime divisions.  So no future here, from soaps to network branded talk, etc.  It doesn’t need their attention, except for someone down the line to pull the plug or make further money cuts or both.  They can just rerun or put reality tv in its place.  Or whatever the next thing is that is cheap that people are in to.

I really did like Karen Witter as Tina on OLTL.  I wish she had ended up on another soap, or stayed as Tina.

I didn’t start watching ATWT until the late 1990’s, so I missed a lot of great stuff that YouTube has thankfully been there to show me.  I think that HBS is my favorite Margo, and Gregg Marx is my favorite Tom.  I only knew her as Nora.  Seeing her work as Margo makes me appreciate her even more as an actress.  I also prefer Ellen Parker as Maureen.  Dolan is a good actress though, just not my favorite in either role.

Do we know when/if Finola is coming back?

The correct answer to this after some reflection was Frons.  He pretty much dismantled his network’s entire daytime drama strategy.

Through his meddling we suffered through some truly heinous storylines and characters forced down our throats on all his shows, until he finally decided to cancel AMC and OLTL.  And he gave us Phelps, Pratt (twice between GH and AMC), and Guza with too much power.

The only thing I can say I thank him for was restoring the best All My Children theme music.

Recasts are weird to me.  When I was a kid in the 1980’s, my favorite two shows GH and DAYS rarely recast a major part, and if they did it was to drive a major story- like Roman in DAYS.

On GH- when Luke and Laura, Holly, Frisco, Lesley, Jimmy Lee, etc left the show they left and their characters left town or were presumed dead.  Monty didn’t really recast major roles once we got past the Heather and Rick recasts of the late 1970’s.  DAYS was the same in the 1980’s as far as I can remember, with Roman being the major exception (and again, to drive story).  I don’t remember a GH recast until Duke, and that was a storytelling mess.

Y&R was relatively stable until Brenda Dickson left during that time too.  I don’t recall a major role being recast once the show really took off again mid 1980’s until Jill and then later, Jack.

It wasn’t until later, when I started to watch more of other soaps that I really noticed the recasts to keep story going.

Jess Walton was quite a success.  Jill was an important character, in her own story and central in other stories.  Brenda originated the character, then kind of reinvented her again as a daytime Dynasty diva.  She also had fantastic chemistry with Jack, John, Katherine and Philip and Nina.

And Jess arrived and eventually brought us a gritty, grounded Jill that was just as combustible and sexy as Brenda’s, plus she brought back some of that younger Jill vulnerability.  When she fought with Katherine it seemed like Jill was doing it, not a recast.

With Katherine- Brenda made me feel like she was pissed at her for their shared past.  Jess made me feel like Katherine had deeply hurt her.  There is a difference. They both played the anger and the snide remarks.  Jess just also brings out the pain of Katherine’s years of torments and killing Phillip.

And I loved Brenda in the role.  But Jess is a stronger overall actress.

I know I have said it here many times-  I just absolutely love Lee Baldwin.

9 hours ago, Khan said:

Sure, it's easy to dismiss this-or-that storyline or era.  You have to remember, though, that somebody, somewhere, loved it; and as a writer or producer, I think you have to respect that.

 

Also, I'm a firm believer in playing fair with your audience.  If we saw it on-screen, then it happened.  Even if you were to retcon it out of existence, like Y&R has done with Dylan, that doesn't negate the fact that people at home still witnessed it.  Otherwise, how can you ask the audience to invest in anything you do on your show?

Yes it should matter, especially to those behind the scenes creating the shows.

But I also hate when people like us, devoted fans that are dedicated to their shows, think everything should be brought up all the time.  There is such a thing as strip-mining these character’s histories.  And placing too much importance on mentioning everybody that is not on the show anymore.

I just want them to move forward and tell me a good story today, with the casts they have.

There was a chunk of time between Laura losing her mind and Lulu’s SORAS that I pretty much ignored GH.  Minus that first Brenda return.  Everything that happened then didn’t matter to me and it was the first real break I had taken from the show since the late 1980’s.  Too much Carly/Sonny/Jason and lip service to the other characters.  I have no idea what happened and I don’t care to figure it out.  I also checked out for a bit when Brenda did.  I have no memory of any part of Sam’s first 6 months on the show.  Not her with Sonny or Jax.  And I am happier for it.

I know later I would see scenes with Luke and Skye and they acted like they had history and I was blissfully unaware of them.  I know Heather came back during this time and I didn't see it or care.

I dropped out again after the text message killer.  Wrong characters killed, horrible ending, and the show was kind of limping along in my opinion.

Thank you for the stats.  Interesting to see Tony Geary not the leader any of these months.  His notorious vacations.

Also-  this was still Guza’s second round, correct?  Much more balance, although anyone getting 18 or more episodes is on too much.

8 hours ago, KMan101 said:

 

It really is. Pisses me off too.

 

But I also never seemed to despise Kelly Monaco either and now I want her smug bored face off my screen as well. Was she always this bad way back on Port Charles? I know I never wanted her on GH and 16 years later she's still cashing a check while thinking about pizza. Yeah, she's been on GH I believe 15 or 16 years at this point, plus three or so years on PC. LORD.

She was much more appealing as Livvie.  And more invested.

I have never enjoyed her as Sam.  Even when she went bad and slept with Ric and plotted against Liz.

You can absolutely tell when she is not invested.  And even when she is, she plays Sam like a spoiled brat.  I think she intends it to be brooding and melancholy but instead it has always come across as bored and petulant.  Vanessa Marcil treads similar ground as Brenda, but is capable of pulling it off and keeping you rooting for her.