titan1978

But things had changed after the trial.  A whole network was started just to cover court cases.  Cable news exploded.  The rise of white trash talk shows had also exploded.  Everything changed in that period of time.

The problem wasn’t just daytime execs trying outlandish and short term things to goose the ratings.  It was their blind attempts to get back to “normal” when television had changed.  The problem was a short sighted belief that those old numbers would return.  The audience had been splintered, and that has continued ever since with an even larger amount of options for viewing.  They killed their own products through panic, stupidity, and a lack of innovation matched with traditional daytime values/pacing/writing.

I think a core reason why Y&R stayed higher than everybody else was because they had viable, important black characters that the audience loved.  It gave them viewers that the other shows ignored.

They needed to calm down, and recognize that the daytime marketplace had changed.  It took prime time until the end of the 1990’s, very early 2000’s to see the same thing happen there.  Nobody will ever see consistent high ratings again like Friends, Seinfeld, ER, etc.  They eventually stopped trying for those kinds of numbers for prime time, and gave up on daytime.

I seem to remember Ron C did not go fi-core.

39 minutes ago, ChitHappens said:

Vanessa Marcil was married to Corey Feldman?

 

I know!  It’s such a strange part of her history.  Also has a child with Brian Austin Green, and a horrible stepmother to her son (If you believe her side of things and I do), in Megan Fox.

I can’t remember if anyone mentioned Genie Francis is married to Jonathan Frakes from Star Trek.  And her father was an accomplished actor, and her siblings have some fame from singing.

35 minutes ago, slick jones said:

Christmas tradition......

 

 

 

Thank you for posting.  Even though GH was not originally a show built around core biological families like most soaps, it still had a strong sense of community.  The hospital was the family home that everyone came in and out of.

I miss scenes like this, and I miss these characters.

3 hours ago, Cat said:

 

I was going to say! Obviously divorce is sad, but in cold Hollywood terms, this is a chance to raise your profile outside of the tiny (and ever diminishing) soap bubble. Most of the stories out there right now are from "a source close to Chrishell," and I'm glad she's not letting him sweep her under the carpet and control the narrative with this divorce. 

I agree.  Where he lost me was throwing shade when discussing the mother of his kids on a talk show to promote his career.  It was subtle, but it was still shady.  And now he’s divorcing the next one.
 

He absolutely is trying to backdate the divorce to keep some part of his money away from her.  Those photos of them at events won’t help if it goes before a judge instead of mediation.

20 minutes ago, ironlion said:

  

I find it interesting that Sonny left Brenda at the altar to protect her from his lifestyle, yet a few years later he moves Carly and Michael into his penthouse. I do recognize however, they only had Sonny do so because Maurice was going to leave the show temporarily.

 

Finally, there wete several missed opportunities with a Brenda/Jason pairing. They had a lot of chemistry during the high school years, in 1998, way more in 2002 during their fake marriage plot, and there was still a lot there in 2010. 

It was pretty well established that Brenda did not want him to be in the mob, and did not like that part of his personality.  To me, Carly didn’t care about that at all.  It was way more in character for her to accept the danger, even with her kid.  The absolute best example of them all coming to terms with their choices was Michael going to jail, and his assault.  Carly and Sonny both had lots of scenes about their choices leading him to this place, and Jason was pretty much destroyed by it for a period of time.  It was the first time I remember them really coming to terms with everything for Sonny, no matter the cost.

The natural progression at that time with how Carly and Jason felt about Claudia and just how bad Sonny had gotten was for them to really turn on each other.  The writing was even setting it up for a couple of years at that point.

From what I remember, the Sam/Jason storyline was going to be Brenda and Jason and they were going to pair them.  The baby that dies, bonding through that, etc.

43 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Wasn't she previously engaged to Matthew Morrison of Glee fame...wonder what happened there. 

She has horrible taste in men?

Sad news.  She had a long daytime career. Her season of GH:Night Shift made me wish she and Sri Rao had taken over the main show.

39 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

Is it Frank or Nathan Varni who has the hard on for Howarth and deVry? I don't really consider Valentin/Stuart a 'pet' but I still would like to see him exit. I feel like Frank didn't want to keep deVry/Julian but yet here we are.

For sure Frank is why Howarth is still here and still always in story.  Not quite as beloved as Easton, but still firmly a Frank pet.
 

deVry I have no idea.  After they burned down his pairing with Alexis I have no idea why he is still here.  People seemed to love them as a couple (I didn’t) but that ship has been sunk long ago.  Who is screaming for him to stay?

What tptb forget is that during Reilly’s first stint, all the outlandish stuff was rooted in romance, which had been the foundation of this show since the 1980’s.  Every crazy story was written around a love triangle or quad, or a family dynamic gone wrong (Vivian/Carly, Sami/Carrie).  And he paced everything almost like a Bell soap, certainly like a more traditional soap.

Marlena possessed was ultimately about Stefano’s obsession with her, her family issues, and her love of John.  All very relatable soap stories.

Even Kate/Victor/Vivian was a triangle of sorts. Carly buried alive was about Vivian hating her due to her family.

I am not saying I loved all his work.  But since his first stint, the outlandish has little to no foundation except crazy.  And Ron without limits is just a cartoon.

13 hours ago, Khan said:

Which wasn't a bad move, in retrospect.  GH perked up a bit during his first stint from the somber tone of the latter part of Labine's regime.  It's only after he left to help launch SUNSET BEACH that I think the wheels began to fall off the wagon.

I agree.  I loved Labine, but she was out of gas after Stone died.  And I was still faithfully watching, but the show was so Stone centric (and rightly so, it was a magnificent, beautiful and heartbreaking story) that when he died the show was just sad.  They didn’t even get Brenda and Sonny back together after or before he died.  A huge set of the characters was just miserable.

Things did perk up just before Labine left, and Guza ran with stories like Jason’s accident and the arrivals of Jax and Carly.

I would not want that first Guza HW stint to go away.  But Curlee could have easily taken his place once Richard Culliton ran out of Guza’s projections and the show fell apart.  That dumb jeweled egg.

Maybe Curlee could have convinced Beverlee to come out of retirement and play a real character on GH.

Is that some shade towards JFP?  He doesn’t come to her defense per say.

Also cool to see him praise Riche.  I think a Curlee/Riche team would have been fantastic.  As much as I loved Guza’s first tenure as HW, I grew disenfranchised with his deconstructive storytelling style, and then just grew to hate it.  Now I am happily imagining Curlee and Demorest taking over instead of Bob coming back when he did for round 2.

As an empathic person, I am more like a Laura that wears their heart on their sleeve than a villain (although I am not as much of a basket case as she often is).

Maybe the poor to middle class person who always manages to marry into the wealthy family in town.  And both hates and loves them.

Eleni- GL, Lois- GH, etc.

My dream is Abby from Knots Landing- cunning, sexy, and not quite as horrible as the major villain.  Just out to get what is hers, even if she has to steal it or your husband to do it.

I’m shocked at this return.  I truly thought we would never see her again.

I would be less surprised to see Tony again than her.

I will tune in for sure for Tracy.

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Sorry if she was already mentioned, but I'd have to say Donna Mills. If anything she stayed two or three seasons too long (which she has also said, I believe). Abby was one of the most complex characters ever on a primetime soap and you could tell that the Lechowicks just did not get her. 

She always needed something to be striving for and the chance at getting caught in whatever under handed means she employed to get to her goal.  Gary, Apaloon, Lotus Point, etc.

I think once the affair with Gary starts through Peter’s death was a near perfect run of stories for Abby.  The show as well, but Abby really starts to meander after that.

What I remember is just how it all felt kind of rushed, especially for Y&R.  That was a pretty quick set up relationship and wedding for Bill Bell and such major characters.  Not just Nikki but Victor and Diane too.  I got the sense that he wanted to shake things up and prolong the inevitable with them reuniting.  Then it seemed like Bell wanted to retire with a bang, and the climax was sped up.

It still took almost two years, but it seemed faster because normally that would have been three or four years lol.

5 hours ago, Khan said:

IMO, the Josh/Cassie pairing was devoid of any real, natural conflict.  Reva loved her family too much to try and upset her sister's happiness -- if anything, Reva would have given the two her blessing while crying her eyes out in private -- and having Cassie become jealous of Josh and Reva's history together would have turned her into another Annie, and Lord KNOWS we had been there and done that.  So, again, where's the conflict?  What's going to hold my interest beyond the initial shock factor of seeing Josh hook up with his sister-in-law?

 

OTOH, if Cassie had somehow ended up with Alan Spaulding.... 

How mad could she get?  She married his dad, and didn’t she have a relationship with Billy too?

Did Josh have a relationship with her other sister?  These people haven’t met a relative they would not [!@#$%^&*].

8 hours ago, Gray Bunny said:

But back to your intended topic, for some reason I can't see Lisa Rinna being Billie during some of the storylines they gave Krista Allen from '96 to '99. 

I agree.  Her Billie wasn’t suited for those stories.

7 hours ago, Khan said:

 

Actually, @titan1978, as crazy and OTT as OLTL was during the Rauch era, I don't believe Karen would have suffered too terribly had she remained on the canvas.  After all, her sister, Jenny, was there for part of it and (by my estimation) she emerged unscathed. 

 

It wasn't the characters who had changed during those years so much as the situations that Rauch and his writers placed them into.

I don’t know.  For me, even Jenny would have been out of place by the time we get to heaven, the old west, eterna, and the overall high action, super couple, glamour and wealthy trappings of his middle to late periods as EP.  The salt of the earth type characters suffered.
 

Even with everything that happened to her, Karen Wolek seemed like a real human being.  The grit, the mistakes and her suffering through them.  Her selfish choices. Her love of Jenny and Larry and her complicated relationship with Marco.

But the Luke of Marland and Falken Smith had a telekinetic sword fight after they were gone, and Labine was able to reestablish him as less of a cartoon.

I was watching an old interview with Judith Light, talking about Karen Wolek, and I started imagining if she had stayed on OLTL.  And I just could not see her and that character on a OLTL that goes to Eterna.  I know she was part of a mind control story, but still.  
 

As much as we wish these actors had stayed at the time, where would they fit?  Where does Karen fit on what Rauch would turn OLTL into?  It’s hard to imagine OLTL in the late 1970’s/early 1980’s without her, and yet, she’s out of place (in my mind) in the Gabrielle/Tina years.

I also can’t imagine Sarah Brown’s Carly with Ron Carlivati writing.  All that camp would not suit her at all.

Beverlee McKinsey saved herself from years of awful GL story (Rauch again).  I would not wish her having to act out scenes with Lucy, and try to maintain some dignity when Reva’s clone is running around town.

Even though I loved Labine on GH, I can’t imagine her writing Robert Scorpio.  Anna I could see, but not Robert.

Any other examples come to mind?

8 hours ago, Khan said:

 

I'm glad to hear that.  I was afraid I was coming across as inarticulate, lol.

 

I have heard that one of the reasons why Patrick Mulcahey stepped down at GL was because TPTB nixed his proposed interracial romance for (I think) David Grant and Bridget Reardon.  (Or, was it Gilly Grant and Alan-Michael Spaulding?).  IIRC, too, Bradley Bell and Karla Mosley singled him out in interviews during the initial transgenderism story w/ B&B's Maya.  Now, I know the story ultimately petered out, as most stories on B&B are wont to do, but I do think its' beginning -- and in particular, the scenes where Rick finally learned the truth about his wife -- were praised very highly online and in the soap mags.

 

And then there were the many, extraordinary episodes he wrote for SB.  (Last time I checked, Mason and Julia's wedding was still on YT.  You should check it out if you have the chance).  Honestly, if not for SB's scriptwriters -- Mulcahey, Frank Salisbury, Jane Atkins, Lynda Myles, Courtney Simon -- I think that show would've been cancelled a lot sooner than it was.

I always knew when it was one of his scripts on GH.  Everyone had a brain and a heart.  I think his work is so well suited to characters like GL’s Ross, and people that do snappy well like Nancy Lee Grahn, Rick Hearst, etc.

With Ashley gone, it makes since to me that Lauren would be used more as the token female vet that has ties to most of the canvas and has the potential for a business storyline.  Plus with them using Tracy Abott more, there is natural history and a place for some feisty scenes.  Really a waste.

No doubt they do well in streaming.  Isn’t Days either the highest stream on NBC.com or close to it?

Again- I would watch the [!@#$%^&*] out of these soaps if they were streaming, even ones I never watched before.  But they already have me!  I’m watching GH at times now, and it is pretty near god awful.

5 hours ago, Chris B said:

 

People talk about ratings negatively only when it relates to soaps. All four soaps have better ratings and more loyal audiences than pretty much everything on the CW and pretty much every cable network. If the networks stopped treating them like it was a time filler and invested in promoting these shows (and gave them a budget) they'd benefit. Also the lack of streaming support for them with their libraries is insane, even if you just focus on what is on the air. For ABC, they own their soaps so why not throw them on Hulu or Disney Plus?

 

That's free money and easy to do. It'll also be curious when Peacock launches if they put soaps on their platform. DAYS has a big online following so one would imagine classic episodes would be a given there. ALso when you consider the lawsuit with Sony was about *not* streaming DAYS I could see them pushing for it. Passions and Sunset Beach are also easy soaps they could dump on there.

It’s not free money.

Even if they go the easiest route and just throw them up there (like Hulu did with Designing Women- not remastered at all, syndication opening etc), that still costs money to convert all those old shows before streaming was an option.

Plus there is the issue with classic soaps and music clearances.  And the talent.  They have to pay everyone again (actors, writers, directors etc depending on their contracts), and if they somehow don’t, their unions will make sure they get compensation in another contract negotiation.

That is all a labor of love for a product that we would buy, but how far beyond us would that go?  And how many of us would pay for it?  Just because I would be willing to watch GH from Monty’s arrival (before that lots of episodes are just lost) and pay for it (maybe even a monthly subscription up to $20,) doesn’t mean other people would or have the means.

At least shows like DAYS and Y&R have every episode saved.  ABC soaps are not so lucky.  I’m sure there are huge eras of vintage GL and ATWT that are gone too.

I wish they would stream old stuff too, but we as an audience (because of the crappy product they make now) are diminishing returns.

I keep reading stuff from fans online saying this is GH’s fault, Frank’s fault, etc, and the show should hire him to give him the motivation to get better.  Frank has a lot to be at fault for but this is not one of those things.

This is not how addiction and recovery works.  Yes, they need support to get better.  But not enabling to stay a course that is not working.  He needs lots of help that has nothing to do with job.

1 hour ago, Vee said:

 

Allegedly, his issues may have been a factor in the collapse of his re-negotiation and exit from GH a few years ago.

 

It is sad. He's talented.

I always assumed it was a classic Frank lowball offer that messed things up.

He is talented and I loved him as Nikolas.

I appreciate those devoted fans.  But what I see is a show that desperately needed to cut down the time between filming and airing.  And if all that lead to this and some people not coming back if they resume filming- okay. Because the production model was absolutely hurting the show.

Maybe this will give them a chance to end on a higher note than filming it 8 months before the actual end of the show.