lilyredd

20 minutes ago, Bill Bauer said:

 

Thank you very much for that explanation, lilyredd. That makes sense the way you told it. I forgot about Martin Guest. I guess I was confused as well by the two suicides of two men connected to Lucinda who were never seen on the show. 

You’re welcome. My mom used to watch The Doctors and raved about Nick and Althea and we thought it would have been cool for Gerald Gordon to play Martin Guest in flashbacks. 

10 minutes ago, Bill Bauer said:

Does anyone remember the origins of Connor and Evan Walsh? I was reading an online synopsis and it's confusing. It said that Mr. Walsh, Lucinda's husband who killed himself, was Connor and Evan's grandfather. I thought he was their father. Does anyone know which it was? Unless Mr. Walsh was really old, I would think Connor and Evan would have been too old to be his grandkids. I know ages are all messed up on soaps but that seems weird. Then again, if he was their father, how could Lucinda not know who they were? I'm just confused. Anyone remember? 

James Walsh was a rich old man Lucinda married after Lily’s adoptive father and Lucinda’s husband Martin Guest killed himself. James Walsh had a son who was the father of Connor and Evan with Edwina the mother. Walsh enterprises was founded by James Walsh senior and Lucinda built the company to a power pushing the son out. Connor and Evan came to town to take Lucinda’s company. She never knew the grandkids because they probably were babies and she had no relationship with Connor and Evans father. Connor and Evan blamed Lucinda for their father’s suicide- a copy of why Lucinda came to town and hated Whit McCall.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

 

Generally the show would focus on Lucinda reacting to another relative, usually one who was long-lost, if the story wasn't about Lily. Marland returned to the pattern previously established with Sierra by bringing in Neal and Royce. Then after Marland's death, Sam filled that void. Then as Lily moved into a more settled life, they brought in he's-her-son-oh-wait-he-isn't David, and granddaughter Georgia, along with the bizarre James romance. I don't think any of this ever would have lasted, to put it kindly, but Liz Hubbard's hostile relationship with Felicia Minei Behr ensured it wouldn't. Then, when Liz returned to the show, she was mostly kept in an even stricter supporting role, there to react to Lily or to Craig. 

 

I do think Lucinda's use in the last year, so heavily manipulating various story strands and finally leaving for a life of her own after Lily took Worldwide away from her, was satisfyingly done - more than I would have expected by that point, anyway. 

My only quibble here is that Lucinda gave Worldwide to Lily. Lucinda is like Miranda Priestly- she ain’t going anywhere!

Worldwide could have been a great source of stories that last decade like Succession and Billions. Walsh and any other companies fell so they could have established that company as a monolith like Amazon. Have all the grandkids vying for power with Lucinda as puppet master.

13 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

It just feels as if people forget that the series didn't begin and end with Marland's tenure. 

Lucinda's vitality as a character should have boosted as Lily became more and more entrenched in adult life, yet Lucinda didn't go in that direction in the character's latter years. Other than having Lucinda stricken with illness, what was really done with the character to show her as a vital, spirited woman? When Lily became a mother and it was clear that she was fully on her own as a woman, would have been the perfect time to give Lucinda a new path. I don't even remember Lucinda driving much storyline at that point.

I actually do not disagree with you. I watched most consistently from 86-93 so that is my main point of reference with story and writers. I only watched intermittently after that time with college and career etc. I don’t think Lisa, Bob, Kim, Susan had much at a certain point either beyond health issues or their kids. Strangely, when I watched in later years the dynamic with Lily and Lucinda no longer irritated me. 

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

They could have done all of this after Marland's death. The characters all outlived him. Why didn't they do it?

That same lack of imagination? Lol, I don’t know. Writing for such a large cast with all the intendant requirements and demands is immensely difficult. I just did not enjoy the tone or the direction of the Lily/Lucinda dynamic. 

1 hour ago, victoria foxton said:

  

Thanks for the episode.

This will be unpopular, but this episode epitomizes why I often disliked Marland’s writing and why I disliked Lily so much. 
 

The Walsh takeover had only been a few months prior to this wedding. Someone who takes over my mom’s company will not be at my wedding, my hubby is not working for them nor will I dance with one of the people and beg them to work together. Lily is awful. 
 

That little scene with Lucinda at the beginning where she says she would concentrate on her own life should have come to fruition. It showed a lack of imagination to just write her as interfering with Iva’s daughter. Lucinda is a joyous character- let her have fun. It was a missed opportunity. A Lucinda untethered from Lily would have had fun. Frankly, a Holden free from Lily would have had fun. 
 

The couples here lack heat or joy or fun. I can see why Zenk enjoyed the writing for her character in later years. Here and so often with some of her pairings she looks so earnest instead of joyful. It must have been freeing to just play.

11 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Is there a full episode of that original scene on YouTube? I'm not talking about the scene where the argue and Lucinda pulls John into the tub (I know that one is up), I'm talking about the next episode, where they're already both in the tub arguing and kissing, as shown in this clip.

Also, was the Vegas elopement actually shown onscreen? Or just them already back in Oakdale.

It's been so long, I had forgotten that there was anything after they pulled each other into the bathtub.

 

I was so young but my recollection was there was no scene of their wedding and this might have been on an anniversary.

31 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Am I the only person who felt distracted by Lisa Brown's dental work? I feel somewhat bad for saying this aloud but honestly, when I watch her appearances in the 90s and beyond, it's one of the most prominent things that I see every time I watch an episode from this period.

Never noticed her dental work. I always thought young Lisa Brown looked a bit like young Judy Garland. I remember they had Iva win some contest and get a makeover and a cruise and I always thought it was funny because that lady had every hair color under the sun and had different looks through the years but in reality needed a personality transplant. 

41 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

  

Best part of this episode was Mary Kay Adams. Just a wonderful actor. She even made Royce and Scott tolerable. Great chemistry with everyone and I loved her interaction with Lucinda. 
 

John and Iva? Were they popular? I tended fast forward through them and the Snyder family in general. 

45 minutes ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Ironically, that ugly side of her personality was the side of her personality I found most interesting. Because it was real - off-putting yes but it was an actual personality trait and invited believable drama.

As you said, most everything else Lily was written was either bland or very very heavy on the character-propping. 
 

I loved characters like Lucinda -rich, complicated, weird, over the top, intense and bad. Like Dorian and Alexandra and Iris and Alexis. Just delicious and fun. Too often their stories, however, were just Lady Capulet retreads when stories involved their bland children. 
 

There are enumerable examples of Lily being awful in a quiet manner. The one that stands out is her telling Lucinda she wished she had grown up poor. The audacity of such ignorance with no blow back and the unwillingness of the show to call her out on that crap! My dad lost his hearing as a kid because he couldn’t get proper medical care and cannot afford new hearing aids right now because my mom needed dental surgery. It was such a gross statement.  Strangely, the show could have granted her that wish later. She dumped all the stock Lucinda gave her and got rid of her trust fund during the disaffirming her illegal adoption (another nonsense move- it was illegal nothing to disaffirm.)  While she would never truly know poverty, I would have enjoyed seeing her not be secure in her finances and for her mother to stop gifting stock to someone who did not appreciate it.

Lily Snyder is a character I had the same thought from the first scene I saw her as I did her last scene: she is awful.  
 

I know writers can have preferred characters or favorites but they fall into a trap thinking that every character worshiping at the alter of their favorite will make that character shine brighter. Marland really overplayed it with Lily. Every woman of a certain age wanted to be her mother, all the guys wanted to date her (especially if their last name was Snyder when they should have recognized you don’t sleep with your niece- adopted or not), everyone liked her. Too many far more interesting characters were mired in the muck supporting her stories. The show would have been served with her exit for longer than a few months at the change of actresses. When she married Holden the first time, I wanted the show to ship them to Kansas to run that other Snyder farm. 
 

Frankly, even knowing how toxic Lucinda was with her kids, Lily was a crap daughter. Passive-aggressive and constantly whining about every little thing her mother did or did not do at every turn. It was not entertaining. Every time Lily disowned her, I wanted Lucinda to celebrate. 

11 hours ago, Forever8 said:

SchfiftyThreeRetro posted a episode of ATWT from Christmas Eve 1990. 

 

 

Cal and Lyla just never worked for me. Actually, Cal was a character that never worked for me. I do not know what is was about him as the actor was fine (I mainly remember him playing a sexist pastor on Designing Women). Lily calling him “grandpa” always seemed weird to me.
 

It is too bad the show didn’t keep a Bianca around for Lucinda - she was the only daughter never fazed by her shenanigans. 

48 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Watching November 1, 1985 episode and there is a scene between John and Lucinda, where John makes a wisecrack about Lucinda's bathtub.  I wonder if this scene was a consideration for the infamous bathtub sequence almost two years later? If it was, that would involve some memory, especially considering all the story that happened in those two years. It's just one of those minor details that one wouldn't expect to play in such a major way so far down the road.

That's one of the things I find fascinating (from a technical perspective) about the writing during this period.

Little scenes that appear to be about something completely different, but when you go back, you see seeds being planted, whereas, in real time, as you watch, you would never figure this out.

So I went back to watch the episode, what memories. I was in grade school when this aired. Marland was quite good at details from year to year. I think this was his best era with ATWT (85-90). I know Lucinda and John were popular, but I liked it better when Lucinda did not like him. Finn Carter was really a natural. 

OLTL- I cannot imagine Elaine Princi as Dorian during the Death row/secret room story nor could I see her in any of the David Vickers stories. 

GH- I would have kept BJ alive and no heart issue for Maxie. While beautiful performances, I think the story set a bad precedent for all other shows (we know shows like to copy). A consistent rinse repeat of killing one character for said character’s organ for another was tedious. No hiring of Phelps. 
 

GL- the show gives Beverly McKinsey all she requested to keep her on the show. 
 

OLTL- no Phelps 

ATWT- Marland welcomes a co-head writer by 1990. I felt there was a real switch by the time the 90s rolled around in his writing. There was such an abundance of depressing, joyless stories.  Marland was a magnificent architect but terrible interior designer. So many of his creations suffered from a “sameness” and so many stories simply a repeat. The best part of his writing was the clear plan, attention to detail, and how each and every character played a role in his stories. A real sense of community - when Lucinda lost John or her company, people reacted. When Bob is shot, people react. Unlike later years where each lived in a bubble. I still get salty watching the ‘99 story where Lucinda is on her death bed and few react- not even John! 
 

ATWT- In 1989 I wish, since they intended to end them anyway, Lucinda and John broke up.  It would have been a balanced ending- John knew she would never change nor accept Duke; Lucinda would have rightly been disgusted with John continuing to sleep with Susan (especially after she returns from her Montegan adventure and tells him her daughter was “executed” and she “found” her mass grave.)

Lucinda needed a real love interest outside of John - unfortunately none existed on the canvass, so I would have brought on someone new for her.

Also, ATWT 1989-Scott Bryce stays on as Craig or they recast immediately. Loved the story of Sierra being one “the disappeared.” I thought it was timely in that it wasn’t that long since Argentina’s junta and its horrors. 

8 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Welcome

From what I have been able to glean, it seems as though some interviews may have been out there years before the reunion live stream, but I admit, much of the talk recently stemmed from discussion that came specifically from those reunion live streams.

Thanks! 
 

I just watched the ATWT 50th anniversary special episode from Soapnet via YouTube (sorry I do not know how to post it here) and Hubbard mentioned how Marland liked to write for young love but when she said it on the show she was very complimentary of him and didn’t sound negative at all. Perhaps, it is overblown as to her feelings on her character and Marland’s writing for her? 
 

I do, however, think Hubbard disliked how the John/Lucinda marriage ended and maybe that and the writers having Lucinda throw herself at John or Gavin Kruger or Craig only to be rejected may have informed her opinions on any love stories. 
 

And it is of note she always seemed to remember that pairing and John after he left the show. 

First post and what a fun thread to read. I watched ATWT regularly in the late eighties early nineties and this lockdown has me rehashing lots of past shows and books. 
 

I am curious why people assume that Hubbard did not like playing the villain? I have not read nor heard her say she wanted Lucinda to be the good guy. Is this from the Locher room interview?