Wendy

Agreed on Lyhn Clark vs Paula Irvine and Lily's evangelistic past not working because Irvine looked so youthful and frankly, didn't play Lily that way.

And OF COURSE I agree with you on Ric vs. Rafe- there IS no comparison!

So was there a rewrite that said that Ric wasn't really a Castillo or that he wasn't superior? Because I don't remember him being revealed to not be a Castillo at all.

Maybe not a rewrite, but just a stupid plot point? Either way, Ric was not a Castillo. Do you remember when Carmen Zapata was recast for a time with Karmin Mucillo? Around that time, it was revealed Carmen had an affair with Harlan Richards (a baddie business guy on the show) and Ric was actually his son - and Ric was in a tepid romance with his own half-sister (played by Julie St. Claire) and didn't know it. When he did, he left town.

And stupid Rafe was Rafael's spawn with some unknown woman, so he was a Castillo.

On another topic, SB really liked the name Lisa. In uploading some Mason/Julia stuff tp my YT account last night, around the time Mason went to rehab for his alcoholism, I had forgotten about Mason and Julia's secretary, Lisa DiNapoli, played by Tawny Kitaen. (And who always took me out of her scenes, even if her acting was okay, as all I could see was her writhing on a car in that Whitesnake video!)

Yep, a simple baby names book would have been helpful.

I was admittedly meh on all the characters who were not Capwells, involved with the Capwells, or interacted with the Capwells from years past (of which there were few) by '92-ish, so Bridgette Wilson's Lisa made no real impression on me, either way. I admired Pam Long (one of the only times I did) for actually trying to use Lilly/Lily's (sp?) con history. But Paula Irvine took me right out of it as I still think she was miscast and far too young after Lynn Clark's RM-lookalike version.

As an aside, Lisa. We had just come off of the Lisa/Eden debacle. Had this writing staff never heard of a simple baby names book?

Another aside, I did like that Lisa also made Rafe miserable, but I think that is simply because I hated Rafe, never bought him as a Castillo, and hated that the show ditched the (IMO!) much superior Castillo brother (even if the dumb rewrite said he wasn't), Ric.

FUN FACT: I think SOW kinda sorta realized and admitted their blunder with ED because the SOW Santa Barbara tribute Issue has Carrington on the cover (pictured with Roscoe Born). Of course, Cruz & Eden were the centerpiece, Lionel & Augusta were on it, Warren & Angela (!- I'm shocked it wasn't a BJ picture), CC & Sophia, and The Walker family, so there were a lot of old characters on there. But you'd have to be more than a little insulted if you were on the show til the end and the actress you replaced gets the cover of the tribute issue.

Not so fun fact: The same week that issue came out, JFP killed Maureen off 'Guiding Light.'

I still have that issue packed away somewhere.

By the way Wendy, I'm SO with you on that ED interview in SOW- do you have it still? I'd love to read it again. As for her IQ comment, much as I hated her, she didn't originate it. The soap press had a field day with her hiring and both SOD & Michael Logan's TV Guide column made the exact same statements before Davidson even aired.

No, I don't! But it shows how much that awful IQ line stuck with me, huh?

I believe you when saying that Michael Logan may have talked about Kelly's IQ, but ED was the first I had read of it, and maybe it did not translate well in text, to give ED the benefit of the doubt, but her remark about it to me sounded so...snide! And I don't even exactly recall WHEN in '91 ED was hired, as I would love to look up the old issue on eBay.

To this day, it galls me that the show let CG go for ED. And, you're right, ED clicked with no one. She maybe had a glimmer with Charles Grant's Connor, but certainly nothing to write home about.

I never knew SB was supposed to get a new opening.

I'm kind of glad that never had the chance to happen. The opening was one of the last (pathetic) reminders of what the show used to be before Pam Long and Paul Roach...er, Rauch...annihilated it. Memory association, if you will. And it had that "California" vibe to a T.

If SB had gone on I wonder if they would have brought Carrington back.

I have asked this before but I read somewhere that they were thinking of bringing Robert Newman on, although perhaps not to be paired with Kim Zimmer. Do you know anything about that? I know he'd already been on once, as Kirk Cranston, so I assume it would have been a new character.

They never did have any plans for Jodie/Cruz, they just had them as a brief relationship from long ago, right?

I think A Martinez leaving caught everyone off guard since there was this interview with Pam Long who says she would never had taken the SB job if she knew A Martinez was going to leave. So my guess is, she did want to do something with Cruz and Jodie but, again, that is just my guess.

I have not heard about Robert Newman returning to the show at all. As for Carrington Garland returning, that would have been great, but again, I doubt TIIC would have admitted to that mistake even if SB went on.

BTW, come to think of it, ED's SOW interview did allude to the fact that she was supposed to cross paths with JW's Warren (I never heard of CG's Kelly doing so), but it never seemed to come to be on screen unless I blocked scenes out, which is certainly possible since ED's Kelly (and JW's Warren, IMO!) were not exactly memorable.

Sorry if this has already been discussed but I read that the show was eventually planning to put JW's Warren with CG's Kelly. Did that ever happen? Or was she fired before that point? Did they ever try him with ED's Kelly?

CG's Kelly, IIRC, was fired shortly before JW's Warren even aired. Or, maybe just after he debuted. But I know CG was gone just as JW's Warren came on canvas. I also don't remember any true scenes with ED's Kelly with him, either. If anything, ED's Kelly was tested (and failed miserably with) Stephen Nichols' zen therapist Skylar Gates. Nichols didn't last long. Wrong role.

ED's Kelly seemed to be a chemistry void whereas CG's was a chemistry magnet with every male. The only guy ED's Kelly seem to click a little with was her final pairing with Charles Grant's Connor McCabe. But Carrington clicked with whichever guy Kelly loved that day, a blessing and curse since her chemistry with everyone had the writers make Kelly into a fickle flake. (I loved her short flirtation with Peter Love's Ric Castillo just prior to Robert, frankly. But then Kelly/Robert took off...) The Dobsons seriously made a huge mistake firing CG because, to them, she looked "too young for all that Kelly had been through". As I have said elsewhere, I found that very ironic since Carrington Garland was actually two years older than Robin Wright.

And, as I said here and elsewhere before, I kind of liked that ED failed as Kelly after basically insulting CG's version by saying Kelly's IQ would finally go up in her first SOW interview after she was hired.

Then again, there is not much the Dobsons did right during their second stint.

Ahhh... Santa Barbara. It was the first soap I ever watched - my dad got me hooked on it when I was 12. I started watching about a week after Julia was raped by Dash, but even I in my youth and naivete did not see it as he said/she said. I didn't buy for a second that Julia was someone who would lie about that, nor did I think she was incapable of knowing the difference between consensual sex and rape.

Despite the awfulness of the rape storyline, I loved NLG as Julia. I never saw Lane Davies as Mason so I have nothing to compare Gordon Thompson to, but I did love GT, and I adored Marj Dusay as Mason's mother - I was beyond thrilled when she came to All My Children years later as David Hayward's mother.

I loved MW as Eden, and it bothered me to no end that she just wasn't as good on AMC. She had some good moments, but I agree that she looked much better as Eden. I HATED the multiple personality storyline though. It just seemed too out there, and I hated what it did to Cruz and Eden.

I'm one of the few who liked GT as Mason. (Most think Mason stopped with Lane Davies. And Terry Lester? Good actor, wrong role.) But I do think since he was the original, that Lane Davies best defined the character. There is a bunch of Lane Davies as Mason up on YT or at his web site - with the Mason Chronicles - if you are ever curious.

Actually, if I recall from reading, the casting of Pamela was just one of the issues that started the Dobsons on the road to being locked out. They wanted Marj Dusay to begin with, but the writers wanted a British actress by the name of Samantha Eggar. From what I read, to allow for Pamela to be written for and for the writers to be enthused, the Dobsons acquiesced. However, Eggar quit before she even started taping as soap demands proved to be too much for her. That is when Shirley Ann Field was cast. I have no idea why she was let go, as she seemed fine to me. Maybe that was the issue, though? Maybe the show wanted a slightly insane Pamela from word go and felt Ms. Field was too "together". Because Marj Dusay certainly brought the OTT crazy angle. That said, it is ironic that the Dobsons' choice would remain in the role until Pamela was phased out for good in 1991. (While I loved that Capwell Dinner in '91 with her there, I was watching older clips of LD's Mason, and it seemed like after the Hal Clark mess, that Mason had washed his hands of his mother, so I don't get what caused the turn-around, mother or not.)

I am one of the TWoP posters. And it was in SOD that the Dobsons brought Katrina Ruyker/Maria Ellingsen on as a love interest for Mason. The Dobsons even had them in a scene discussing Mary. But GT looked like her father. Then the Dobsons were fired, and that was that. The Dobsons made a point of saying Mason and Julia were star-crossed lovers, and they seemed to like Mason when he was forever unhappy, never quite staying happy. I think their second and last tenure had proven that much!

Ditto Sister Sarah supposedly being younger. The strike casting killed her as a Mason/Julia foil. I recall reading that, perhaps in SOD, or maybe TV Guide, but it was out there.

And I was the one who claimed Mason/Ted were more distant with the recast Ted and Mason. But, as I also said, it made sense since Lane Davies and Todd McKee were friends in real life and even went on a European trip together once both left the show. I remember SOD had pictures.

To be fair, though, AW did seem to have some...odd recasts. There was Robin Strasser to Victoria Wyndham, but it worked. I will say Nancy Frangione and Susan Keith were vastly different. Whether the change worked is up for debate. But that also is the case for Lorna Devon going from tough but vulnerable Alicia Coppola to more soft/regular soap heroine type with Robin Christopher. That was jarring.

As was going from Sandra (Ferguson) Reinhart to Christine Tucci, who were night and day in appearance and style, and made even stranger with redheaded Laura Moss and then back to Sandra Reinhart. AW seemed much like its (supposed-once sister show) ATWT in recasting roles with actors who were nothing like the original actors. Sometimes, it worked. Sometimes, it didn't.

As an occasional AW watcher (it was a'ight...but I was more of a Santa Barbara gal and would watch as I waited for 3:00 p.m.!), what is the deal of the behind-the-scenes stuff alluded to with Chris Rich, Nancy Frangione, and Laura Malone?

I know she had her issues with drugs, but she is one I never thought would die like this. May she RIP.

It's a shame her SB run never seemed to work out. You'd think she would have been suited to that show.

Yeah, I get that. But I also believe Pamela was a character used best in small powerful doses. And for her longer run, the ending was memorable, what with C.C. trying to kill her and Mason (for once) defending his father and telling C.C. that Pamela wasn't worth it, etc.

Her final appearance at the ill-fated Capwell Dinner in '91 was fabulous.

Scherra, I'm glad you are enjoying the clips. I have some more to upload and will. I just tend to space things out, if I can. Although it is painfully obvious from my channel that I am an unabashed Mason and Julia fangirl. Hee.

Cruz and Eden were the signature fairy tale, but I much preferred the warts-and-all pairing of Mason and Julia. And I will agree that Lane Davies just personified Mason Capwell, good and bad. I did come to appreciate and like Gordon Thomson's more openly devoted version of Mason (as is also obvious on YT), but for all that, I found Lane's version more...something...and I think you hit on a small piece of that. How Mason was so tangled up inside with Lane playing him, that expressing himself outside of a courtroom or under an influence of alcohol was always a struggle and infinitely complex. It was when he was not in lawyer mode or drunk that he was left with...himself...and Lane played Mason, for all of his bravado, as insecure and unsure of himself and his place in his family - or in his romantic relationships.

I think, under GT, that trait only stayed when dealing with C.C., but it used to be his default setting with everyone.

I cannot speak for scherra, but Lane Davies' last year was filled with Sonny Sprocket. I'd say that is a low point right there. (It was amusing back then, but watching it now, it tended to grate after a point.) I understand WHY that was done (Lane and Nancy's issues, which are now well known), but surely something better could have been written.

Oh, well. At least LD/NLG both grew up and buried the hatchet later on - and not, incredibly, in each others' backs.

ETA: Scherra, I had already mentioned this in the thread, but in case you did not see it, you should check out The Mason Chronicles, if you haven't, at Lane's site. There are two time lines, a "current" story arc, and an earlier "retro" arc. The retro arcs sometimes have (textual) commentary to go along with the clips.

MC - current week:

http://lane-davies.c...hronicles.shtml

MC - retro:

http://lane-davies.c...icles0097.shtml

And don't worry if you start in mid story. The clips always circle back around again. If you are a fan of NLG, Nancyfan.com has M&J's story from The Baby Contract onward, too.

Wish this was in English, but still a cool entrance for Eden!

Thanks for telling us about this. I'd heard of this but didn't know there was commentary

Well, print commentary (as you'd see when you click the link), but still, great to read Lane's thoughts on some of the scenes and actors.

Does anyone watch The Mason Chronicles over at Lane Davies' site? He even offers commentary for the "retro" week clips versus a more "recent by SB standards arc" that runs concurrently:

Retro with commentary:

http://lane-davies.c...icles0096.shtml

Current (the current stuff gets a video added each day, M-F):

http://lane-davies.c...hronicles.shtml

It circles back around, so whatever you missed, it will likely get re-posted down the line.

Which parts do you think don't translate well?

I'm curious, too, since, besides the '80s clothes and hair, I think Santa Barbara was a soap that held up remarkably well!

I saw the recent comments about Frank Runyeon. Boy, I hadn't thought about him in years, until I got the recently released DVD. I have mixed feelings on FR. On the one hand, I can see what a ham he was in his prime.

Maybe, but hammy is better than boring or sanctimonious, which, to me, summed up his role as Michael Donnelly on Santa Barbara a few years later.

Wow, I disagree. And while the last year did have shitty writing, up until about '90/'91, SB had anything BUT. With the writing Emmys to show for it.

But as with everything, I guess it is tomato, tomahto.

Merry Christmas!

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Thanks.

Sorry to keep asking stupid questions, but SOD carped at SB for a scene where Kelly ran down the airport runway after Cruz left. Do you remember that? Was it bad?

Oh, bad does not BEGIN to cover this. By now, of course, ED was Kelly and this was off the heels of the disastrous Kelly/Cruz pairing. Think of an SNL parody of a soap and magnify it times ten. It was a stereotypical pearl-clutching shriekfest.

I was also going to ask about a clip of the 1992 Christmas, where CC was in dual roles, or playing two versions of himself. What was that about?

In short, basically another redux of "It's A Wonderful Life". I say redux since Cruz already did the same scenario in 1989.

And don't apologize. I like to fill in blanks if I can!

Were there any characters you felt only certain writers truly understood, or was that not the case for anyone? Or any characters who weren't the same when they came back? Like Augusta. What did you think of her after Louise Sorel returned?

I love Louise Sorel, but I think Augusta floundered once the Dobsons were locked out. Probably why she left (only to return periodically). I don't think Pam Long "got" the Capwells/Lockridges, either (minus Warren, who was revealed to not even be a true Lockridge - which I called BS on), since they all but disappeared in any important capacity under her watch.

Julia was more casual when not in court. Much more relaxed than Alexis is/was.