Mitch64

On 12/4/2023 at 1:56 PM, TEdgeofNight said:

Ok Mitch. I challenge you. Who was the headwriter job offered to during that time and who declined the offer?

JLH had nothing better to do so of course she accepted. What has she done since GL? At least Kreizman is still writing at Days.

I have no idea..I just heard that some people were offered it (could have been more of the usual suspects) and no one wanted it..due to PG and network interference...the pay...and everyone knew GL was going to be cancelled.  

I will take JLH over Kreizman anyway..she has written a few L & Os and Kreizman was writing for pro wrestling for a while and the crap show Days...well, nuff said. As much as I don't agree with her on many things (the Cooper family is her comfort family..yuk) she got GL and she was responsible for writing the returns correctly and the great scene with Ed and Lillian at Mo's grave..which came about 10 years too late but....I know she was one of GA's favorite writers. 

On 12/4/2023 at 11:19 PM, Khan said:

RB and LD would have been too young to play Alan, but who knows?  I'd put nothing past JFP.

The thing is, Chris Bernau made such an indelible impression as Alan that it's literally impossible to picture anyone else playing that role.  Daniel Pilon couldn't replace Bernau.  Ron Raines DEFINITELY couldn't replace Bernau.  I'm not sure anyone could've replaced Bernau.

Born is only a few years younger then Raines..and at least Alan would have been sexy again...but I think he would make a better Kyle Sampson recast..he always seemed for "feral" under his business suits.  But I do agree, both Alan and Alex should have never been recast..I get that they needed to recast Bev as she left abruptly but it should have been a temp recast or JFP should have begged Bev to come back just to wrap things up...(i.e. make peace with Nick and Mindy..) Bring back a recast Amanda (sorry, Cullen was a washed out bore) or have Van run Spaulding...then AM...then Phillip.  Alan should have never been recast but they also kept RR around too long where his snidely whiplash antics were a bore...Alan should have died years ago and the new generation could have taken over and fought it out. 

2 hours ago, Khan said:

I'll never forget Ellen Wheeler's pitiful attempt at hyping the production changes by saying things like, "We'll finally get to see Cassie plant real flowers in a real garden!".  Bitch, I don't CARE about some damn flowers.  I watch GL for the characters and their stories.  And you don't need to sweat your balls off in NJ to provide them either.

Ha...that was Wheeler also talking about Harley opening her kitchen cabinets and you can see real pots...huh..they did that on sets too (not to mention Harley's crap house with the walls not drywalled.) And she compared it to Desperate Houswives and you can believe the show as it films outside...nothing about DH was realistic or wanted to be...that is even if you could compare the junkey backyard of Harley to the meticulous take on a fantasy upscale suburb where everything was perfect..on the outside. 

5 minutes ago, TEdgeofNight said:

She was inept to say the least. Pairing her up with the god awful Jill Lorie Hurst and Kreizman was trouble from the beginning. A recipe for cancellation.

No one would take the HW job at that time...not work the hassle or the bad pay. I do say JLH really loved GL and "got it" and she was mostly responsible for the last week of returns, etc. Kreizman just sucked.

13 hours ago, Dan said:

You touched on it at the beginning, but in fairness to Roger and Holly, roughly 75% of the show after Curlee and Demorest left in March until the end of the year was mostly tremendously uneventful and boring. Shame cause it's not like Curlee and Demorest left the show in an awful position. (Some mis-steps later in their tenure but nothing that couldn't be fixed). 

Also someone correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the church set Wheeler's office? It really is a shame cause Peapack absolutely could have worked, but it was done in such an amateur way it was sabotaged from the start. 

The 7-11 embarrassingly enough was a supply closet at CBS and the church was Wheeler's office...(the altar was really her desk I think..tho I am shocked she had an office and not a folding table in a hallway.) 

It could have worked given more money spent on it (the key word here) and more care (and if it happened a few years later when hand held were much better.) Peapack is a beautiful area (Reva's aborted wedding to Kyle  was filmed there) and I actually thought some of the sets looked nice...the Towers set and Company looked better than it had in years. The sets were actually more like they did the old time soap sets, which stacked next to each other and ran a camera down the middle of the sets to film, so when Lisa was being overly dramatic on one set, Nancy was waiting to film in the kitchen.  So if they had kept cameras, filmed and lit the sets better and kept the handhelds for outside..it could have worked..at least better. 

I remember the first week of filming...Reva and FauxCassie wandering around the woods, and Jeffery being filmed from across the street with weird camera angles which in the old days meant stalker was watching...and I got excited he was going to be killed off....the worst was the Spaulding press conference in the field..(CBS couldn't let GL use a real boardroom or offices) the best was that Kimmer really adjusted to it and Reva 2.0 finally became more of a real person(stories still sucked) instead of overly dramatic love goddess.

12 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

still kept a lot of familiar characters/faces into its final decade. I didn’t feel GL was really limping until the Conboy/Weston debacle and the drastic 2005 budget cuts.

Agreed...it still had some good things occasionally happening, but it was Conboy and Westen that put the nail in the coffin and that is attributed to MADD letting it happen. 

On 12/2/2023 at 12:53 PM, wonderwoman1951 said:

a freebie from today’s ny times: 

i survived guiding light

Very nice, funny, sad story...thanks for sharing.   I loved the comment section, not only people who were on the show (who confirm it was a crazy, sometimes dysfunctional family) but the viewers remembering Nola and Reva and that GL and soaps were communal kind of viewing. 

25 minutes ago, TEdgeofNight said:

Yup. Lujack lived in the Reardon boarding house. And they had physical scenes.

Yes.... I am sure it was GB...he was the stud up to that point and had to act like a big brother figure to Lujack. Its too bad, I loved Tony and GB was sexy as hell and I now know why they never brought him back..(I wonder what a Tony/Reva pairing would be like...)

On 11/25/2023 at 3:29 PM, DeliaIrisFan said:

I could have sworn this was the same Xmas episode that used to be on YouTube, when Kim had one of her "open houses" pre-Marland (I had totally assumed that expression wa one of Marland's touches, but I guess it was something people actually said in conversation at the time.  I remember when I first started watching ATWT holiday episodes on YouTube/DVD, I had to Google "holiday open house" once I realized Kim wasn't selling her house).  I do remember Kim and Bob were a couple in that other episode, whatever year that was.  How long were they together in the '80s before their wedding?

"Open House," is a very midwestern thing which isn't used much anymore...(My parents would have a lot of them...) it just is a party that goes from a certain time and people drop in as they can....have a drink and then on to something else...they were held mostly during the holidays when there were a lot of parties taking place a one time. 

Bob and Kim were friends together for so long and seemed like an old married couple even when they weren't that it can be confusing, but seemed more "real"

I thought that Nick and Kim were fairly popular (more due to Kim) but I do remember that KH said she got a lot of hate mail when she was getting into the sack with Nick when he recently found out his wife was really alive. It seemed odd and lazy for the Dobsons to throw the "back from the dead" storyline at the same time Joyce was having that same story, and to have Kim have yet ANOTHER bitchy ex dogging her, when the Kim/Dan/Susan story was still fresh and kind of iconic. Andrea didn't last long as she didn't go over and really, it was like they had no plan for her other then.."Im ALIVE"  I never understood why they just didn't make Steve Nicks son from a youthful indiscretion. 

On 11/22/2023 at 3:53 AM, Soaplovers said:

This is a pretty decent episode and it proved that the Dobsons weren't a complete disaster writing for ATWT.

I can see why P & G thought the Dobsons could work their magic on ATWT, but ATWT was in worse shape than GL was when they took over.  It was going to take a lot longer to fix ATWT than it was to fix GL.. and also I think that the viewers for ATWT were a bit older/more conservative than the viewers watching GL.

Even so, I did like the scenes between Tom/Carol... and I liked the debate that Maggie/Lyla had over John Dixon.  There was some strong elements here that never really gelled (either because of P & G having mandates, the upcoming writer strike, or the fact that the Dobsons weren't the right fit for the show).

Oakdale is gearing up for an ice storm and black out... soon Lisa and Joyce are going to have their one millionth confrontation and Joyce will "accidentally" light Lisa's skirt on fire!

Its weird..this is right after Margo finds out she is John's kid, but there doesn't seem to be much drama pumped out of that...she just seems pissed at Lyla and annoyed at John. I know he gets run over by a car and goes blind, but I would like to not only see the episode where Margo hears she is John's kid, but when and how Margo got to be so protective of John. 

Like Maggie's coat and think she is a really interesting character...making her Lyla's sister is so clunky....so while living in Sweden, she just happenes to meet and start screwing the son of the guy who is engaged to her sister. I wonder if Deas and Colin were starting to be an item yet?

6 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

 

Sad day.. the day my Mom found out she was pregnant with me...she will always remember coming home from the doc and turning on "World Turns" as she would call it, and hearing the news here. I can't imagine what it was like for people at home sitting down to watch "their show" and to find this horrible news (well, depending on how you look at it, my Mom got two pieces of horrible news that day!!!) 

Imagine a show dedicated to if you were going to invite your ex daughter in law to Thanksgiving dinner...much more relatable then the ridiculous plots we were subjected to over the years, and really what Wheeler and Co. should have done with the new production model on GL. 

4 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

The fact that he’d later be portrayed as brazenly flaunting his illicit behavior seemed highly ooc.

I think Sheffer and Kreizman both used characters they could live vicariously through (Craig for Sheffer, Jonathon for Kreizman) which is fine, except that those characters were never allowed to loose, and if a character is ALWAYS going to come out on top, all the stakes vanish. 

9 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

GL: Like others have mentioned I was entertained by the Reva clone (remember when clone Reva planned her honeymoon for Genoa City because she was a Y&R watcher?) and Nursery Rhyme Stalker stories. Also I’ll add in the Marion Crane story.

 

I forgot about the Nursery Rhyme Stalker storyline, which everyone seemed to hate, but I loved. Holly was clever and wiley and MG looked hot slinking around town in her leather (like we didn't know she was the stalker, she was the only woman in town who didn't wear a pastel dress.)  I just wish that Holly and kept the tude and the leather afterwards, no one besides BevAlex was as good with a withering ironic takedown of someone like MG/Holly when they wrote her that way.  And yes, Brent/Marion was great and I did not see that switching HIV test results was any worse than any other partenity/medical test done on soaps over the years. 

During the Phillip goes nuts and hurts the poor widdle Coopers story on GL, Harley donned disguise to investigate in Spaulding (apparently the hiring process and security at Spaulding was very lax) and GA rightly was pissed off about it, as it was obviously was Harley and so he incorporate eye drops in a scene.

3 hours ago, Faulkner said:

Brent Lawrence and “Marian Crane,” Guiding Light. Such a dark story. Wouldn’t fly today, of course, without considerable backlash.

A really good actor and character wasted on trying to make the audience like Lucy Cooper and the actress, one of JFP's friends. 

On 11/17/2023 at 9:26 AM, Gray Bunny said:

I mean, the whole premise of Guiding Light's clone story was the most ridiculous and unrealistic thing imaginable, but dammit if it didn't make for fun, compelling entertainment! Double the Reva; double the fun!  IMO at least

Oh God..no...Zimmer was already eating up the SF scenery like Godzilla..we didn't need two of her.  But you are right there was a perverse love of watching scenes of Rauch and the writers massaging Kimmer's ego at that party where everyone was in AWE of Reva's skin and complexion...not knowing it was the clone(this was right when Kimmer was starting to show her age in Rauch's overlit sets and turning into the battle-ax we all know and love..) 

I do think that Reva 2.0 gave us a bountiful feast of entertaining bad stories from Josh being drugged by FauxAnnie (Sit DOWN Josh) to Reva the Queen of San Cristobal and things like the Matt and Josh repeling over a wall, where the camera pulls back to reveal they could have walked around it, the chase of RN on a motorcycle going "Grrrrrrr REEEEVAA" to the residents of midwestern SF being lined up in front of a firing squad (what kind of justice system did this dumb place have and did they not think that might not cause an international incident and Reva after dimRichie runs off to stop it...sits there drinking her coffee and staring into the distance when her friends and family are about to be blown apart) and of course, the Toliet Bowl of Doom when Eddie dragging Reva around in a gown and a tiara (looking like a very big drag performer) tries to drown the "Kentucky Fried Venus" to unfortunately..no avail.  Reva 2.0 gave us enough bad stories, cheesy sets. The Clone seemed downright ..intelligent!

On 11/11/2023 at 2:47 PM, DeliaIrisFan said:

Which reminds me, at some point just before (or possibly during?) Kim's stalker story, she was attacked by some thug(s) who were after the jewels Shannon and Earl were smuggling?  Or at least Shannon blamed herself when she confessed her real identity, but maybe she was mistaken and Doug or Marsha was responsible for whatever happened to Kim that time as well? 

Good point, this was before or at the very beginning of the Stalker Storyline where Kim found a dead body in the woods behind her house and called Margo.  I remember Shannon being a jewell smuggler but I have no idea what became of that or the body in the woods. How could Shannon start off as a jewell smuggler and turn into such a Marland bore worried about Lily and honesty? 

John and Lisa were both red herrings in the stalker..John with the card (why would John Dixon send out cards to anyone, much less Lisa) and Lisa still being in love with Bob (which started pre Marland when I think when Harding LeMay was consulting) and doing some fun stuff like pitting Kim against Nancy (who LeMay or someone had as her usual stern self) by not telling Kim Nancy headed kidney pie or something) Lisa broke down crying telling Babs she was still in love with Bob and yes, Marland was great in dredging up the Ellen/Lisa feud of Ellen not trusting Lisa (and in one scene insulting her handwriting "Lisa, I never could read your handwriting...') fun stuff that made the characters seem more real. 

Marie was brought on as the spoiler in the Kevin/Frannie thing..but that was as about as interesting as a wet cracker, and Marie was killed during Shannon's Halloween party when she was dressed as Madonna.

On 11/9/2023 at 1:03 PM, China Jones said:

I remember someone saying Beverlee McKinsey gave off a "to the manor born" vibe whereas Marj Dusay had more of a "showgirl that married well" vibe and that's why they didn't care for Ms. Dusay as Alex. I get the same "showgirl that married well" vibe from Maree Cheatham, so I understand what you're saying.

Do you think that Marj Dusay would have been more suitable as Miss Sally too?

I think I may have said that.  I don't think Cheatham would be a good Alex...Alex is cool sophistication...and I think Maree is move volatile..which is what Marj was so it never worked. Maree or Marj would have made a great Ms. Sally..(especially since she hated Reva and both actresses are as LOUD as Ms. Kim.) 

23 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

It would have been better if Holly saw Roger yelling at someone.. and it triggered her memories of what happened between them in 1979/1980.  She then realized she still had a lot to deal with and pulled away from him... which made him feel the impulse to keep pursuing her.  

Agreed...that is why I would have had Fletcher get killed by Brent/Marion(and not just because I dislike Hammer and Fletcher so much) He is on to the story of Alan working with Brent to steal from Spaulding...Alex frames Roger for it...Fletcher, being dumb annoying self righteous Fletcher is loudly pursuing Roger for it (in no small part out of jealousy) and Roger gets pissed and beats the tar of out Fletch just as they actually had him due in a scene. Holly sees the violence in Roger...Brent kills Fletch as he trips over the truth, and then frames Roger, and Holly( and all of SF ) go full on to get Roger convicted. After the truth comes out Holly realizes there will always be violence lurking under Rogers skinny and that she can never truly trust him and they go their separate ways though colliding into each other very often. 

I always wondered about Holly and Ed together as a tentpole..she would be no Maureen in the kitchen, but they are two damaged people who "get" each other and have an understanding of life.

15 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Although I thought Larry Pine was hilariously venal, I did find the original actor intriguing, maybe because the contrast of this good looking, somewhat charismatic guy who was an otherwise awful human being.

I thought the first guy was hot...and then they go to kind of a typical soap villain, sleazy, mustache twirling. 

15 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Maybe Lisa Brown wanted a clearer contrast to her GL character, Nola who had been known for being edgy. Brown was a known B’way performer and may have had other opportunities and honestly, I can see her being bored with portraying any character too similar to the last one she played the last time they worked together so, perhaps that character shift got her to stay on the show?

Original recipe Iva was different then Nola.. more edgy (Nola at her worst was just a girl who wanted more and knew how to manipulate to get it) more mature, and more jaded (Nola would never be jaded as she was a dreamer...which was why her return to GL failed, Nola would never be a lonesome looser depressed by Quint's affair..she would fight the good fight to get him back and if she lost she would tell him to go f*ck himself..that's why I would have just had Quint disappear presumed dead so Nola could move back to SF without him) Iva was a fighter but one more...tired then Nola would ever be. I never understood why they just made her a depressed bore. 

I see Liaison was a producer during this time...(again, didn't he learn something from working on Marland's ATWT) and I know he brought Brown to GL, so maybe Nola sad sack ways was something he wanted and Brown naturally went to after Iva. 

14 hours ago, MarlandFan said:

 

Iva's return...when she had some fire and edge and wasn't perpetually depressed and depressing. They even dressed her differently. I wonder why Marland chose that path for Iva..she was much more fun as a Snyder outsider with an edge. 

14 hours ago, GL Oldtimer said:

When things were good between them, they were so good. The characters had a nice maturity about them and they had some great scenes in 1994 when they were working through some things regarding communication and trust. I think there was a reliability about them during that time.

Like every soap couple, I knew they weren't going to last.  But the way the writers handled their breakup still gets to me, especially since Holly went back to hating Roger, despite how far they had come as a couple. As a fan, it was hard to watch it all unravel, and the chance for them to rekindle their relationship or at least get back to a better place ended when Michael Zaslow was pushed off the show. I feel like their journey together as a couple was accompanied by a lot of missed opportunities and premature endings.

1994 was the year it all started to fall apart (both for the show and for Roger and Holly...) I really hated how they put them together as a couple, even living in Hollybend together...yes, they got past a lot of stuff, but not to the point of being in relationship. It just screwed over all the years that GL built showing that Roger did indeed rape Holly, and while he regrets it, that changed their whole dynamic for ever and it can never be forgotten. Plus, they were boring.... And yes, it was just as ridiculous they way they broke them up...all of a sudden she screws annoying Fletcher on her desk and its all about him. 

Roger and Holly were the ultimate soap couple that could never be apart, yet never be together. If it wasn't for that one decision Roger made, they MIGHT have stood a chance, and that regret would haunt Roger and make him who he was, and the same with Holly. Again, I love them thrown into each others orbits, sometimes conspiring together and sometimes against each other. The twins was the perfect time to do that, with Holly getting Roger to switch the paternity results to name Ross as the father to both, and that secret binding them.  But then McTavish went nuts and put them back to square one, with Roger being EVIL and Holly hating him (and being very self righteous about it.) 

18 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

That was a humdinger of an episode, wasn’t it @Soapsuds?  I think I did set the VCR to record the episode but I also remember walking really fast after getting off the school bus, (which was a block away from my house) so that could catch whatever I could in real time of the episode (probably the last few minutes). Then, in the evening I could watch from the beginning. 

I remember watching it in the student union in between classes (the last half) back in the day where the three TV lounges were tuned to different networks...this was before spoilers and the room went into an uproar with James' now soap iconic line. This football player LOVED ATWT and GL and he was screaming "James f*cking Stenbeck..Barbara girl look out!!!" The show was so good then..still a little campy and fun. I love Margo browbeating Lisa but it doesn't seem to be a Lisa thing to just give in so easy. 

12 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Brad discovered that there was silver there and through his new friendship with Lisa, got the Hughes to sell them the land. He also needed the Stewart property and approached David and Ellen. David found out there was silver and decided to lease out his property to another company. Brad began mining the Hughes land and Joyce,Melinda and Jay got involved along with Brad having interactions with Annie, Dee, James and Don. So they were really setting him up as a central character.

Brad was skulking around the property (running tests) and met Annie who was sulking about some breakup.  Bob and Lisa knew him as his dad was friends of theirs ( a point quickly dropped) and Brad using his supposed charms got Lisa to push the Hughes to sell the land which then Brad announced that he found silver.  Then the Hughes were mad that Don was going to work for Brad..setting up a storyline but that was dropped. It jus was weird and the character never worked. I have no idea why they did not have James do all of those shenigans and just have Brad work for him.  They also started a storyline where David is flush with cash from the mine and buying things and Ellen is against it but that was dropped. 

I still don't get why Brad married Annie if he was always mopping about Dee. T

On 11/3/2023 at 2:08 AM, Paul Raven said:

Donald Hughes was also onscreen in 1980 when the Dobsons arrived. So they had the two brothers template, one a doctor and one a lawyer, similar to the Bauers.

But I think Don and Bob were pretty similar by that stage.

Agreed, when the Dobsons came on board there was Nancy, Chris, Bob, Don (engaged to Mary) Tom, child Frannie and discussion on Penny (so Marland thinking of bringing her back?) I think Marland started the back from the dead Joyce (interestingly called Coleman, not Hughes tho still married to Don.) So they had a whole core to work with. I think they were trying to turn Don back into the renegade Hughes as he was going to represent Hollister (who gyped the Hugheses out of their land.) It didn't work as they would have had to recast Don..which would have been fine and interesting..though I think they had Grant and Don both as middle aged lawyers involved in the same storyline so I can see the issue there. 

By the time the 25th rolled around in April, the Dobsons decimated the core, firing Don, obscuring Nancy and Chris who became walk ons and Wagner left, leaving only Bob and Tom, and recast Tom barely had any interaction with his family..that was all on the Dobsons. You can't blame the network and P & G entirely...Marland was still writing for the Bauers, and introducing the Reardon's with a traditional matriarch..(and we know 4 years later her would return the Hughes to their place)

On 11/3/2023 at 6:47 PM, DRW50 said:

I think you're right. What hurt ATWT was no one in place there seemed to have any idea what this shift needed (was anyone in the viewing audience horny for Brad Hollister?). With a few exceptions, like the casting for Margo and Craig and recasting Tom, they didn't seem to figure it out until around 1984 or 1985.

The Dobsons just didn't care about the Hughes enough to fight to keep them the core..and you're right, they didn't know what to do with the show. I think the Dobsons second tenure was more successful because of Bunim..(not that she gave a crap about the core.) And thank you to whomever got rid of "horny" Brad..note to the Dobsons, your romantic hero should not be as scuzzy as your villain in the triangle. John had motivation...Brad was a scuzzy serve stalker!

9 minutes ago, GL Oldtimer said:

Donna L. Bridges, thank you for the information regarding the petition to award a Posthumous Lifetime Achievement Award to Beverlee McKinsey.  I have added my support to it.

Mitch64, you make some interesting points about how Bloss took over the character of Blake. I never looked at it like that, but I agree with you.

I did like both Keifer and Stringfield in the roles. I can't really say that I have a favorite, but I just noticed in revisiting the episodes from the early 90s how much different the character is from Stringfield to Keifer.

For those of you that are in the know about these things, what was the overall reception from Guiding Light fans to the pairing of Fletcher and Holly? As a huge Roger and Holly fan, I still find it hard to rewatch the episodes of Roger and Holly's breakup and Fletcher and Holly's pairing. Nearly 30 years later it still bothers me :). 

Annette

I HATED Folly, but I really didn't like Jay Hammer and they tried to shoehorn Fletcher with every diva and I felt it didn't work. He did have nice friends chem with Zimmer in the early years but that was about it.  However, I didn't like Roger and Holly "together" he raped her and abused her. They should have always been in each others lives as they share a history, daughter, grandchildren a dangerous attraction, but not as a couple. But then, I never felt Jeva was healthy either. 

Hammer used to walk all over Garrets lines..and he just became almost as insufferable to me as Deas/Buzz. I do think they had fans but really, the chairs in Company probably had some wacko fan base.

2 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Very nicely said, well thought out. She's my favorite Blake, too. I thought I was alone! I also got to know her a bit as a person & she is an incredibly interesting, neat, kind, smart, etc. person in real life. 

And I just picked this up on IG. I know not everyone did, but I loved the Marvel crossover! Shout out to Beth Ehlers & Shawn Reeves (Costume Designer) who both were great with it & really did it justice!! 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzFvWfSskC8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Hated that dumb ass episode...just so Davey could stroke one to Ehlers abs!! 

1 hour ago, Fevuh said:

I know I'm in the minority, but I liked the twins from 2 fathers storyline.  And they should have told it, and left it alone.  I think in the end it turned out not to be true?  Because Annie switched tests or something?  Which - I don't even remember a motive for Annie to do such a thing.  

Maybe my memory isn't correct, but I thought the curly haired Frederick should have remained Rick's child, and the other one Ross's son.  

I could have gone with it, but they needed to play all the beats which they were not willing to do. McTavish played it as a comedy at first..(ha, ha..I just slept with my stepsister who is now married to my Dad's best friend, and who is a surrogate uncle to me..ha..ha..) and gave MOL the chance to work his worst tendencies in acting..mugging or being overbearing. They also needed Ed and Roger and Holly to be involved more and to bring up their own history. I would have played it that Rick felt real morose for what he did, and for Blake to be Blake and write it off as a mistake until she found out the pregnancy thing...then to rope Roger and Holly into switching the tests to make it look like Ross's kids.  Roger would be disgusted that his grandkid was going to be a Bauer, Holly would warn Blake about the mistake of lying to men about their child...but then do it after Blake pulls the guilt card.  So Rick would move on not knowing (with Abby or someone else.) and then somehow finds out, tells Ed about it, but they resolve to let Ross and Blake continue on as the parents until the [!@#$%^&*] really hits the fan and everyone knows. Ross would be angry at the two most important people in his life Blake AND Ed, Ross would fall into someone else's arms (I would bring back Hope Bauer for this)  Blake would fall into someone's arms (soap people can't solve a problem unless they screw someone) I would make that Matt..(just cause I would love to piss off the Blossies AND the Mattresses) Roger would be determined that Rick would have nothing to do with his grandkid...Holly and Fletcher would have issues that she was conspiring with Roger still.  The eventual solution would be for Rick to let Ross raise both kids as his own, but it would always hang out there..until they are SORASED .

Yea, they had it that Annie switched the tests but it was a retro write. ..Annie would have no reason at the time to do that, she was as shocked as Blake and why would Annie want to hurt Rick anyway. Sloppy. 

1 hour ago, Fevuh said:

Maybe my memory isn't correct, but I thought the curly haired Frederick should have remained Rick's child, and the other one Ross's son.  

No..the show was so screwy at that time the curly haired kid was Ross!

7 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

More challenging but more interesting, just from the perspective of someone who once wrote a play about a mother who came off as domineering but had her reasons (whether the audience agreed with her methods or not). Perky would get very boring fast for me. I also think that, it didn’t have as much to do with a soap’s “DNA” as it was with executive interference, of which P&G soaps always seemed to experience more than their fair share.

Nancy Hughes was always a more cold, dominate matriarch...so I don't think it was as much execs as it was the Dobsons as Bridget would always airly say they "Write what they feel, and what interests us and no one else."  It would have bene interesting to see writers evolve Nancy more.to see her gradually see that she she can let go of her family a bit more and have another interest..I think she also should have been the one more aggressively angry with Joyce then Lisa..(she shot her kid) and show her trying to block Joyce's access to that kid and ride Joyce...all the right reasons (Joyce was neurotic and unreliable) to show her iron fist..and I am sure more fun for Wagner then being a walk on and serving coffee.

On 10/25/2023 at 5:22 PM, chrisml said:

Liz Keifer is a good actress, but I didn't find her a good Blake. So much momentum was lost with that recast. Keifer should have been brought on as another character.  Kimbeley Simms is an example of a recast done right and then they couldn't find a good replacement for her even though Barbara Cramption is a first actress (just not as Mindy). 

I think that I am the only person who likes Keifer of the previous actress. I thought SS played Blake over the top and campy, and didn't really find her that sexy..no offense, but she always seemed like a big strapping girl especially next to skinny little AM...(my favorite Alex lines..."And Alan Michael can you pick that MOOSE off the floor!") 

I think the problem was that "BLOSS" took over...Ross and Blake should never have been end game...and the writers took away all of Blake's agency..she didn't have a job, (I remember episodes of her just having out at that ugly diner...) and then she was saddled with that "Jelly of Amanda, so I get drunk and screw the guy I used to think was my older brother" and the bad twins storyline and from then on out, even with Ben, she was tied down. 

I think Keifer did well as a woman who tried to get over her f*cked up childhood but kept making mistakes. They could have developed that more with her trying to be a mom to her kids unlike her own mother, and like everyone, not doing as well as she thinks she should...but they just kind of made Blake a flighty eccentric nobody.