wonderwoman1951

11 hours ago, chrisml said:

I often wonder if the Stern/Black regime would look good in retrospect or if they really were as awful as their reputation.

were they less awful compared to what came in the final year? hard to say…

but, yes, they really were as awful as their reputation. 

thinking of martha.

it’s a free link to the ny times. 

 3 convicted

i remember treat williams playing a former football player with dementia on l&o svu — heartbreaking performance.  beth chamberin (beth on gl) played his wife. andre braugher was his denense attorney.

38 minutes ago, Khan said:

I tried to come up with an instance where I saw Hunt Block play any role with anything other than smarminess, and...I couldn't.

i didn’t find portrayal of ben warren on gl at all swarmy,

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

While I agree the writing for Craig was atrocious, I think the bigger problem was casting Hunt Block in the role. Block was a one-trick pony, really incapable of conveying anything other than an all-consuming self-interest. Block was given plenty of material to use as emmy bait, and only netted one nomination at a period in time when ATWT was awash in them. He was good at portraying a smug belief in his innate superiority, but not the ability to care about anyone else. And it's not like Craig wasn't given those moments, Block either couldn't, or didn't chose to play them. 

Meanwhile, Scott Bryce was able to give Craig a conscience in spite of even more atrocious writing.

agreed that the writing for craig was atrocious in the final years. funny thing, though,  about hunt block is that i really like him as ben warren on gl, when he did play the emotional layers. so i wonder if something else was going on. maybe what he was playing was closer to the vision chris goutman had for the character.

after scott bryce was fired in 2008, he gave an interview to michael logan and described his relationship with goutman as “odd, and disconnected,” then talked about how dark the show had become and suggested that maybe he “didn’t fit into that vision.” 

12 hours ago, DRW50 said:

The scenes with Margo, Craig, Lyla and Casey were all funny, sweet, touching, something that these characters (and the show) lost by the mid '90s. This is one of the reasons I just never could accept the changes to Craig and his relationships - Craig could be a selfish [!@#$%^&*], but he often loved his family. Scott Bryce had an ease and vulnerability no one else in the part could find.

When I watch these again I can understand why I was fond of Shannon at the time, as Margaret Reed is such an emotive, charismatic performer in these years (as shown in her last scene with Richard Burgi), but her stories just go nowhere by this point. The whole idea of morally upright Grant Coleman being evil or a killer is a nonstarter, even if James Douglas does a good job with the doubt. 

I was impressed with the relatively honest portrayal of homophobia and how it affects not just the gay character, but also the young straight men who battle with their homophobia and insecurity, and are targeted for being close to him. I've seen other episodes of the story which detail these things, but not sure any have ever done the contrast with Hank, Andy, and Paul as succinctly as this one. The f slur being thrown around makes this feel more real than I had expected. You would not get anything along these lines on a soap in the last few decades. Nor would you get the reality that only a handful of people would actually be close to Hank (especially poor Iva, who in real life probably would have spent half her time venting to gay men), with the most you get otherwise being apathy or hostility. 

I've wondered at times whether it was especially true to life for Hal to be son in Hank's corner, but I still appreciate it. 

I'm never sure why Marland didn't do more with Iva's biological father and his family. They just never feel very natural, and don't have enough impact on her life. It's a shame the woman who plays the nasty sister, Elizabeth, is so weak, as she is the only one in the group who is allowed to be flawed (as she has to move the plot along while her "good" family react to her). Elizabeth is the type of character you'd get more of on prestige dramas in the '00s and '10s. I wonder if Marland knew someone like her, and couldtn't stand her.

Seeing Lisa Brown and Liz Hubbard was a heartbreaker, but a reminder of what underrated, nuanced acting partners they always were together.

ita with everything you said. wanted to add: can only imagine what the budget must have been for this episode. 5 sets, which is not a lot, but i counted 25 characters, at least 20 on contract. 

those were the days…

excellent! how if georgia will just get its thumb out of its ass…

26 minutes ago, Vee said:

27 minutes ago, Khan said:

of these days, I'm going to have to break down and purchase that OLTL oral history on Amazon, lol.

It's worth it! And pretty cheap. I posted way too many excerpts from it in the thread dedicated to it at the time and IIRC the author was not pleased with me. I only found that out much later, lol. I'm sorry, Jeff Giles!

it is sooo worth it. that level of candor must have involved some adult beverages.

also looking forward to the ryan’s hope oral history coming out in the fall.

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

2 hours ago, Vee said:

Thanks! I always wondered if they wanted to do more with Earl and didn't. But I don't know how far he and Lisa got, I'm still deep in '86 lol.

I can't remember when exactly, but it gets to a point where Earl just does not appear for long periods of time. I'm not sure what Farley Granger's status with the show was by 1988. I like Farley's work on the show, he's very charming, but based on the way he was used, they should have just contained him to one story and then wrote him out at the end of the story.

when granger joined atwt in 1986, his partner, robert calhoun, was the executive producer. calhoun left the show in 1988. wonder if that had anything to do with granger’s status? 

15 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Not to belabor the point, but it is CBS Sunday Morning, and not exactly catering to the young and hip demographic. I don't think it would be asking a lot to acknowledge the passing of stars that appeared on their network

THANK YOU!

3 hours ago, Khan said:

Also, I'm sad to say this, but CBS likely noted JZ's passing, because GH was a pop culture phenomenon in ways that the P&G shows weren't.  The only actor from a now-defunct soap whose passing I could see making the news would be Susan Lucci's - again, because Erica Kane wasn't just a soap character, she was, for a long time, part of the zeitgeist.

3 hours ago, Wendy said:

And Jacklyn Zeman, along with Anthony Geary, Genie Francis, etc., LITERALLY saved GH from cancellation and helped turn it into the pop culture phenomenon that GH became in the early '80s.

That soap reached viewer numbers at that time that NO other soap has or will ever see.

In that context, I get why a rival network would acknowledge Jackie Zeman's passing.

all true — but kathryn hays was on atwt for 38 years, liz hubbard for 24. and not for nothing, ‘world turns and guiding light WERE ON CBS! and over the years those shows generated 10s, if not 100s of millions of $ for CBS. so one might think that would supersede the NEWS aspect of their passing.  

today, cbs sunday morning mentioned the passing of jackie zeman. i have no quarrel with that.

it’s just that the show never — NEVER — notes the passing of actors who were on p&g soaps for decades: kathryn hays, liz hubbard, jerry verdorn, lisa brown are the most recent ignored by the network.

does cbs have a rule forbidding the show from acknowledging these actors?

pleased that both kathryn hays and jackie zeman rated obits in the ny times. absolutely shocked that la liz did not. 

On 5/8/2023 at 5:14 PM, Khan said:

It's long past time for the Consumer Cellular Generation to rise up and save network TV.

that’s my generation (though i have xfinity wireless:). and it’s not going to happen if reality, game, and true life crime shows continue to dominate the schedule. yes, they’re cheap to produce, but i have absolutely no interest in watching.

15 minutes ago, MarlandFan said:

I do think that Marland may have become frustrated with the havoc that the OJ Simpson trial brought to soaps in 1995

expect he would have been frustrated, but marland died in march 1993.

2 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Fans rooting for SB Craig was the total opposite of what Goutman wanted.

And out the door SB went.

i’ve always believed that cbs vp for daytime, barbara bloom, had a lot to do with that — martha byrne, too. not for nothing, but both were replaced by actors who worked with bloom at abc. all part of the massive influx of former abc daytime actors who invaded oakdale in the final years, mostly playing characters not connected to the core families.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

Personally, while it broke my heart that a legacy child I'd been so invested in at birth was killed off---I was not a fan of the writing for or casting of the character. IMO, his death was partly emmy-bait for Hunt Block, which I believe failed spectacularly. 

agreed! while i understood the need to bring more people in as writers, it never made any sense to me bringing in people who were so openly contemptuous. while i loved hunt block’s ben warren on guiding light, his version of craig was hogan’s misguided idea that what was wrong with ‘world turns was that the men were lacking ‘balls.’ 

and for jeanp, the person i’d really like to ask is courtney simon. 

On 4/27/2023 at 5:17 PM, Soapsuds said:

Why they killed him off made no sense.

this was hogan shefer’s worst decision. i’d love to know if anyone with some institutional memory ever explained to him that bryant was connected by blood or marriage to virtually every ‘world turns character. as was jennifer. properly written and cast, they could have been the next generation’s umbrella couple. 

bryant’s connections

jennifer’s connections

as for kim onasch, i never heard about any issues between her and todd. however, helen wagner told me that kim often came to the set not knowing her lines. 

praying that colbert’s not on vacation this week.

can’t remember where i read this, but it’s a nice example of elizbeth hubbard’s acting chops:

“In the second episode, Lucinda's granddaughter, Faith, is brushing her grandmother's hair and asks why Lucinda's hair is coming out in the brush. There are so many ways that scene could have been written and played. The "soapiest" would have been for Lucinda to have a total emotional meltdown in front of Faith, followed by the requisite, and heart-rending, explanation and apology between grandmother and granddaughter.

But that's not how it happened. Not even close. The drama of that scene was all in Elizabeth Hubbard's face as Lucinda struggled mightily not to let Faith see the pain and terror she was feeling, willing herself not to let go of her emotions until her granddaughter was safely out of the room. It was a powerful moment, and as the students watched, all I could hear was their breathing, punctuated by the occasional sniffle. Nothing illustrates the sorry state of daytime soap opera these days more than the fact that one must be of a certain age to remember when these kinds of moments were not so few and far between.”

4 hours ago, kalbir said:

With the news of Elizabeth Hubbard passing away, is there any new information on other As the World Turns veteran actors? AFAIK Don Hastings, Eileen Fulton, Larry Bryggman, Marie Masters are still with us.

don hastings, eileen fulton, and larry bryggman all did a locher room remembrance of kathryn hays. was surprised and concerned that marie masters wasn’t there.  

On 4/4/2023 at 8:25 AM, victoria foxton said:

When David Stewart passed away. Both Bob and Kim mentioned their deceased spouses Nick and Jennifer. To convey that they knew what Ellen was going through. Details like that are very important.

a lot of that has to do with having the same actors in the role. much harder when there are new actors, who don’t always know their characters’ history, along with new writers who tend not to care.

so while the writers may have only rarely referenced the long-standing animosity between kim and susan stewart, kathryn hays and marie masters always made sure it was there, even there was nothing explicit in the dialogue. 

3 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

I've always wanted to ask the vets on the board if it is true that when a head writer creates a new character, do they get some kind of residual check if the character last eons? I remember someone saying that on SOC (when I used to post there eons ago), and I found that to be farfetched; however, if true, it'd explain why all these soaps writers prefer creating all these pointless characters instead of digging in the rich annals of these shows.

i’ve asked ta couple of headwriters and the answer is always “not true.”

the peter boynton interview was excellent!

alan seems to do so much better in these one-on-one interviews than with a group. 

loved the betty rea story. just goes to show even the great ones don’t get it right every time. back in 1961, houghton mifflin turned down ‘mastering the art of french cooking’; knopf is still laughing all the way to the bank.

interesting that charita bauer was still doing theater. nothing about it on her wikipedia page and ibdb lists her last broadway appearance as 1944. 

and never realized that doug marland continued to do theater after he became headwriter. it’s a lot to juggle. not surprised though that he created the part of tonio for peter. he really did appreciate actors. 

i’m always amazed at the insights soap actors bring to how fans really connect to both the shows and characters, perhaps if more of the suits had shared these insights over the years, soaps wouldn’t be in such a sorry state. 

i think the fact that it was moonves who “suggested” black and stern as ‘world turns headwriters in 1996 makes that a rhetorical question. 

and for a little well-deserved schadenfreude: a freebie from the ny times:

moonves/redstone