JarrodMFiresofLove

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I think your opinions are shaped from your point of view as someone who had no extensive, long-term experience of watching these legacy characters, so they therefore meant less to you than they did to veteran viewers. This is not meant to be a criticism in any way. Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, of course. But longtime viewers of any series are wont to be protective of the legacy characters and the essential components that had made their shows popular and enduring in the first place.  Gail Kobe did not understand this as a producer. She felt that flashy plots were more important than the characters whom the audience regarded as friends and family, and she acted on that premise by gratuitously firing 2/3 of the cast.

 

I would say that Bill Bauer's death was pointlessly cruel, and the idiotic, history-butchering, factually-impossible story it lead to held no merit and only hurt the show. 

 

With all the other Bauer's gone, we were left with Peter Simon's morose, listless Ed to carry on the torch. If Mart Hulswit had remained as the warm, affable and FAMILIAR patriarch, Ed Bauer might have been relevant in the 1980s, but with Simon and Van Fleet in the role, the new and unimproved Ed was merely another stranger in a sea of newbies. TGL was no longer TGL.

Your post makes me chuckle because it seems full of (false) assumptions. I was a long-time viewer of Guiding Light. I watched from 1978 until 2009. As I said in previous posts I was initially unhappy with Mike being written out but in hindsight I can see that Ed was the better choice as a long-term way to continue the Bauers and basically Mike (and Hope) became expendable. The producers and writers chose to follow one branch of the Bauer family tree and it feels to me like they made the right choice. Just like in the mid-2000s, Wheeler and Kreizman wrote Michelle and Danny out and chose to focus on Rick's branch as the continuing Bauers. Some of it is down to budget, some of it is actors leaving on their own or being fired because they've reached the end of a storyline, whatever. But if someone has to go, it makes sense that the most expendable ones go.

I think it is wrong to assume that all long time viewers have the same ideas and the same kind of loyalty. There are probably others who agree with me that Ed's family kept the Bauers a central focus in the 80s and 90s. It's really not worth arguing about. From my vantage point I try to understand why some key creative decisions get made and to accept them where I can. Obviously I don't agree with every axing but I tend to agree with most of Kobe/Long's decisions. A lot of characters they got rid of had run their course and there were no new stories that could be had with them. Ben and Eve, as much as I loved them, were played out. Floyd was played out. I think Jennifer and Amanda were played out. All of those are ones I would have gotten rid of too.

As for Bill Bauer he was never going to become a regular character again under any headwriter. So keeping him alive did not generate any story. But killing him did. The Bauers were not above being axed. But actually, there was never a time in the 80s, 90s or 2000s when there wasn't a Bauer on contract. The family continued to be represented the whole time the show was on the air.

7 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

I think Mike Bauer was an essential legacy character who should never have been eliminated from TGL. You do not axe John-Boy from The Waltons or Spock from Star Trek just because new writers have no interest in them or are not creative enough to invent new material for such essential components of the series. Or because new viewers may have no clue about their historical significance.  Inventive scribes, had they had been truly invested in Mike, could have easily created new ties, relationships, and storylines for him. Hope Bauer as well. 

 

The problem with getting rid of Mike Bauer, Hope Bauer, Hillary Bauer and even killing off Bill Bauer was that it destroyed the heart of the show: the Bauer family. With Bert gone, and a woefully miscast actor in the role of Ed, the family was essentially gutted, and in the long-run that put the first major nail in the show's coffin.

 

The 1980s were such a terrible time for TGL. So many viable, important characters butchered or written out for no reason. So many new, useless ones introduced, rammed down our throats and then (mercifully) dumped. Intelligent writing dumbed down with a focus on painfully STOOPID fantasy garbage. Other posters have mentioned Elizabeth Spaulding. It always annoyed me to no end that the character was simply dropped and ceased to exist, even though her relationship with Phillip was so important and their story unfinished. With her wiped out of existence, I suppose we were to assume she had passed away (like Stuart Brooks on Y&R and Tommy Horton on DAYS), but the whole mess reeked of incompetence.

 

Thank heaven I have my memories of 1950 to 1983!

I would have killed Bill Bauer off too, if I was in charge. He had been so infrequently seen since the late 60s that the heart of the family no longer included him. At least Long and Kobe got some drama and real mileage out of his death.

As I said previously I think axing Mike was the right move. However, I did not think Hope should have been written off...or if she was, why she couldn't have returned later, especially when Alan-Michael was aged and reintroduced. The worst part of Hope's exit was she had become a drunk and we were supposed to want Alan to divorce her. But I can also see how being married to a man like Alan might have turned anyone into a drunk. So part of it made sense. Still she could have come back later on after she'd sobered up.

I also wasn't crazy about Hilary being killed off. But I think she was kind of played out. She should have just left town like Mike and Hope did, with a possible return later. I found actress Marsha Clark to be almost too masculine in the role so I never bought her as a romantic leading lady in any of the character's possible romances. She was best as a pal of Katie's at Cedars. And her friendship with Kelly and Floyd was good. But in terms of soapy drama, she was never going to be a center stage leading lady.

I think refocusing the Bauers on Ed and Maureen was the right move. And giving Ed another child (Michelle) kept the Bauers going until Rick was old enough to take over as the Bauer patriarch. Subsequent head writers continued to make sure more Bauers were born. Rick had several kids. And technically the Bauer line continued through Alan-Michael and the Spauldings too.

1 hour ago, zanereed said:

 

Actually, I think Long was starting to write a very interesting storyline for Mike in 1984. Mike had been heavily involved with Alan from the Spaulding family's initial introduction in 1977, and he was front and center in it  - even when Marland took over. The problem with Mike was that the character had no solid family at that point, unlike Ed. Mike was clearly the more stable of the Bauer brothers, but with no wife and his only child (Hope) SORAS'd and now with a grandson (Alan-Michael), he became more of a supporting character. This was probably due in part to Don Stewart's refusal to work with some of the actresses that Marland had planned for him (Jennifer Richards, for example).

 

By 1984, however, Pam Long planned a love triangle with Alexandra/Mike/Lillian. The repercussions of that triangle would no doubt have carried over into Lujack and Beth. However, once again it appeared that Stewart wasn't set on working with Bev. I think that was the final straw for Kobe, and she fired Stewart.

 

I still think that if Long's end game would have been Mike and Alexandra, that marriage (or potential marriage) could have sparked more years of Bauer-Spaulding storylines, especially when Bernau eventually returned to the show and if TPTB brought back Hope (and not a severely SORAS'd Alan-Michael).

Good post. I agree with what you wrote.

2 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

 

I think that is why Long struggled when head writing Santa Barbara because there wasnt thst Bert type of character, plus it wasnt known for being a community based soap.  It was in a unique category of it's own.  From what I have seen, I think she wrote Jo and Stu on SFT quite well and used both up till the finale (she was there in the last 6 months with another head writer).

 

I always thought Long should have gone to Another World..imho.

Yes, Jo and Stu were very much refocused during those last six months of Search, and I agree, that was down to Long. In fact I think if the show hadn't been cancelled she probably would have had Jo and Stu marry. There were subtle hints of that, especially one episode where she had Jo and Stu on some vacation, sharing a cruise ship cabin together. I think she was interested in taking those two long serving characters into a whole new frontier. She would have reinvented them yet kept their friendship at the core of a meaningful marriage. She liked writing for older established characters that helped guide the show's sense of community.

12 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

 

Pam long used Bert quite a bit...she was the voice and moral go to.  I had heard Long had planned to test H.B and Bert together but sadly this was never explored...just like her planned Mike/Alexandra story didnt pan out.

Yeah I think Bert was Long's type of character. Long liked telling stories with heart and Bert fit perfectly into that.

At the time I remember being upset when Mike was written out. I think instead of putting him with Alex they put him with Lillian for awhile, after the stuff with Bradley ended. But then Mike was sent packing to D.C. around October 1984.

Looking at the Dobson episodes I watched the other day, it's clear that Mike has exhausted a lot of his storyline by late 1977 and as the years wore on, there was even less they could do with him. Marland played up the Mike-Alan-Hope stuff but that could only last so long. By comparison, Ed was younger and had a younger family (Freddie/Rick, Chrissie/Blake and then Michelle). It's easy to see years of story ahead for Ed but not for Mike. So in hindsight I think Long and Kobe made the right decision axing Mike.

If Charita had not gotten sick again and passed away, Bert undoubtedly would have remained on the show. She would always have had a place in Ed's stories.

3 hours ago, robbwolff said:

 

I much preferred Richard Niles in the role than Chandler Hill Harben. Harben lacked the intensity and edge that Niles had as Rico.

 

I wonder if Julie was meant to go over to the spinoff. She was set up as quite a schemer and a foil to Carolee. I also wonder how Avery would have gotten Steve over to the spinoff. During the winter of 1970, Steve had split from Carolee and was pursuing Althea. He was hardly in Carolee's orbit at that time.

I think I prefer Harben's interpretation because it's NOT the intense edgy let's channel Marlon Brando in STREETCAR and WATERFRONT type performance. It's refreshingly subdued. Also I think when Niles played it, he was too much a mini-Nick. In mid-1975 Nick was off the show on a long sabbatical so Rico could be his own different kind of character, independent from Nick.

3 hours ago, Edward Skylover said:

I was looking at the history of Guiding Light and noticed not many of the original cast lasted long. Was Charita Bauer as Bert Bauer the only one who transitioned from radio to tv? I think Helen Wagner might have been the only other actor but she only lasted a couple of months into the TV broadcasts. Bert lasted from 1950-1984 which is a long time. It seems like not many actors lasted very long in the early days of soap operas.

I think the contracts were different in those days of radio soaps. The performers were contracted to the network and worked on more than one show at a time. Many just freelanced. So they would have a short-term role on this soap and on that soap at the same time. In Charita's case, she became a real fan favorite and so overly identified as Bert she was restricted from doing other characters on other shows. When they transitioned to TV, her popularity ensured the television format would be based around her character. She dominated the show in the 50s and 60s.

In the early 70s she had a lull in storyline but the Dobsons breathed new life into the character during the mid-to-late 70s. Marland didn't really use her very much in the early 80s, he was more interested in the younger newer character he was introducing. After Marland left she had health problems but Pam Long wrote her real-life amputation into the show and that was arguably her strongest storyline. So she remained relevant up to the end. She had a long run and earned a lifetime achievement Emmy.

What about the original Rico? Anyone like him? I prefer the recast from 75-76.

46 minutes ago, Chris B said:

@JarrodMFiresofLove Thanks for that! I definitely see what you mean. So far his tenure doesn’t seem too destructive like some HWs, but he doesn’t seem to have much of a vision. The show is watchable but there aren’t any stories that are really standing out. 

Spoiler...ahead...I thought Julie's death was a real low point. I didn't like the way they chose to have her die. It was very contrived and unnecessary. After I watched the episode where she was fatally injured and rushed to the hospital I was glad there would be a change in head writer soon afterward.

On 8/20/2018 at 12:34 PM, Chris B said:

I’m still in 1970, currently in March. I just finished the episode where it’s revealed Anna is having pains and Althea and Maggie worry it’s soemthing bad. I know Anna leaves this year so I’m getting worried as well! She’s such a delightful actress it’s a shame she didn’t stick around longer. With that said, I’m interested in seeing where this goes. 

 

Beyond that im very disappointed in the story with Carolee and the abortions. I just don’t see the purpose of it. In the end nobody was really to blame and she quickly patched things up with Julie and Nurse Buckley. I feel like they could’ve done more with it. I notice they keep mentioning Carolee’s mom. I can’t wait to finally meet her since she sounds fun and I remember y’all enjoyed her from older posts. 

 

Matt and Maggie are still dealing with the fallout from their car accident. Maggie seems distant and kinda obsessed with the boy who survived. This is another thing I’m curious to see. I’m ready for Maggie to have something centered around her for a change. 

 

Now my one big question: What did y’all think of Ira Avery as a HW? I saw on Wikipedia that he gets a co-HW next month. So far I think the show is fine but it could definitely use a kick. Im curious if that co-HW will improve things any. Clearly he couldn’t be that great if he gets replaced with the Pollocks but I’m still enjoying the show!

He wasn't very good. I thought his episodes were filled with nonsense. When the Pollacks come on, it's an immediate improvement.

10 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

 

I remember Vicky.  She was slowly introduced as an assistant to the dr that did Reva's cloning, as well as being Vanessa's personal doctor when she was ill.  I think Vicky double crossed him, and the fall out was his death causing Vanessa to instantly dislike her.  In fact, I recall Vanessa background checked Vicky and revealed to Alan that she was the grand daughter of the Jamaica branch of the family.. and it looked as if the show was gearing up for a Vicky vs Alan battle.. than the show recast the actress (who was cold and lacked warmth) with another actress that smiled too much and lacked any of the backbone of the first Vicky.  The character fell by the wayside because of a recast that wasn't needed.

Thanks. I'd forgotten there was a recast. She was involved in the Spaulding business plots for awhile. I think there was a gap between the two actresses, like they were deciding whether or not to recast. Then they did recast and it just didn't work. There was no proper exit for the character. She just stopped appearing on screen. Later head writers were not interested in mentioning her.

1 hour ago, Mitch said:

 

I had suggested before that Edmund was the real Spaulding heir...I have no idea who you would work the mechanics with that one but we have had clones and paitings as portals to time travel..so.  I didn't really like Edmund but I loved DAM and he would be more the age and no..Gus was not a Spaulding it was all a big mistake...

The Spauldings didn't need any more long-lost kin crawling out of the woodwork. Esenstein & Harmon Brown tried to revisit the Jamaica story from the mid-80s by bringing a young Victoria Spaulding on to the show in the late 90s. But after a solid introduction she quickly became just another token black character who stopped appearing after a year or so. I don't even think Labine, Gold, Weston or Kreizman ever addressed what happened to her. Did she die? Did she go back to Jamaica? It was like she had never existed. At one point she was living in the Spaulding mansion and involved with David Grant, another token black character who didn't amount to much in the scheme of things.

5 minutes ago, j swift said:

BTW re:Phillip's baby switch, I know many have suggested that Gus should have been Rita's child, but imagine if he was Elizabeth's kid that got switched for Phillip...

Yes, I agree...that would have been better. I think Rita had reached the end of her dramatic shelf life. But Elizabeth had more life in her, from a writing standpoint. She should have been brought back later. She could have been someone Alex brought to town again to rattle Alan.

Plus I always wanted to see Lizzie have scenes with the grandmother she was named after.

I also think Hope should have been brought back. Elizabeth and Hope were two legacy characters that could have added a lot to later storylines.

Another mistake soap writers make, and the British soaps make this mistake too, is they think the whole town needs to find out about the secret. No, it should only involve those in the immediate orbit of the story. That's what made the Dobsons' tale so effective-- it was not about all of Springfield knowing the truth about Philip's parentage. It was this one extended family dealing with it.

The story about whether Roger or Ed was Chrissie's father was also handled expertly by the Dobsons. It just affected the Bauers and Thorpes. People on the wrong side of tracks across town did not need to be drawn into it.

Going back to my earlier point about the chaotic 80s. In addition to so many new families and characters being added, the show added too many new sets. Back when the Dobsons were writing, it was really just Cedars and the homes of the core families. Maybe a small set was used for Mike's office, which probably also doubled as Alan's office, shot from a different angle. They did not need Company, suites of offices at Spaulding Enterprises, Frank's chop shop, the Beacon Hotel, Towers, the courthouse, WSPR, Springfield U, Lewis Oil, and so on and so forth. The Dobsons wisely kept the action centered at the hospital and inside the homes of the main families. Again, they kept things basic.

10 hours ago, j swift said:

Agreed, I like that it is aspirational without being flashy.  They all have careers, dinner parties, and nice homes, without being princes, or super villains.  It seems like it is always trying to be a heightened reflection of the culture at the time.  Even the discussions of family planning seem so much more evolved that the baby crazy women portrayed on soaps today.  Jackie isn't trying to ensnare Alan in order to mother Phillip, she is pragmatic that Phillip was close to his father and marrying him was a good way to join the family; also Alan was unusually magnetic when he wanted to turn on his charm.    

 

Jackie and Justin were so groovy it is hard to believe what a wet sock Samantha turned out to be, but her casting was an excellent use of history given the SORAS-ing of Alan-Michael.   

You're right about Jackie's motives. She wasn't some pre-menopausal woman with a biological clock ticking who was trying to reclaim a son. She was a woman who wanted to be part of her son's life, and as you say, join the families together. Her motives were fairly pure. Cindy Pickett was superb in this portrayal and I could never really take to the recast. This said I don't think she should have been killed off in a plane crash, that seemed like a mistake.

The reason I really love this storyline about Philip's parentage is because it becomes an open secret. A lot of modern soap writers make it all about keeping people in the dark. But as this story went on, all the adults knew the truth. They kept it from Philip to protect him. That is why several headwriters were able to keep it going for seven years of airtime. The adults were not in a rush to reveal it to him. Today's writers get too impatient and want the big ratings episode where the bombshell is dropped six months later. But it became more interesting and more involving for it to just continue along, with all these extra layers added. It made the story much more powerful and the ramifications run that much deeper.

The fact that both mothers were not around when Philip finally learned the truth hurt the story a bit at the end, in my opinion. We really needed to see Philip confront all four of them. He should have visited Elizabeth wherever she was, and he should have gone to Jackie's grave. Instead, it became more about him and the two fathers. After Justin left it became more about Philip and Alan, with Ross there as a sounding board.

The aged Samantha didn't work for me, because I think Long brought her on as a sister to Philip more than anything else, instead of making her into a lead character that could stand on her own. It didn't surprise me when Suzy Cote left two or three years later and the part was never recast. In fact I don't even remember Philip mentioning Sam after 1995, did he?

2 hours ago, j swift said:

The backstory is that Justin dated Sara while they were in med school, but then he left her for Jackie, whose family was well connected.

 

Justin & Jackie met Alan & Elizabeth in Europe when both women were pregnant and had the same doctor (who later becomes a part of the story, even through Diane Ballard's murder).  Justin and Jackie came to Springfield (many Europeans chose Springfield for the first place they settled in the 70's) when Justin worked at Ceder's.  Then Alan and Elizabeth come to town.   Justin and Jackie split first, then the couples change partners because Elizabeth really likes Mike but Phillip doesn't like him so she settles for Justin. 

 

I think the sequence of people knowing about Phillip's parentage/switching is Alan (because he set it up in the first place), then Justin (he treated Phillip's hysterical heart problems), then Jackie, and finally Elizabeth.  Spoiler alert: Jackie &Justin reunite then she dies in plane crash, Elizabeth gets institutionalized, like all 1970's women who were too liberated, at his high school prom Phillip finds out from Beth's abusive father Bradley that he is adopted, Alan and Justin confirm it, then Justin leaves town.  So, they got seven years of stories out of Phillip's switch and the resulting butterfly effects; and then never mentioned it again....

Thanks. I was born in the early 70s, so the first storylines I remember watching as a kid were probably from 1978 or 1979, when Jackie was married to Alan; and when Roger raped Holly. So this earlier stuff is kind of interesting to see.

I certainly remember when Jackie and Justin reunited, though there was a recast by that point in the role of Jackie. And I also recall them having another child, daughter Samantha who came back to Springfield in the late 80s or early 90s but was kind of nerdy.

What I love about this earlier stuff by the Dobsons is how they built these romantic entanglements around the Bauer brothers. Around Mike we have-- Elizabeth, Jackie, Justin, Alan, Sara (and later Hope when she becomes involved with Alan). Around Ed we have--- Holly, Rita, Roger, Peggy, then Alan when he has an affair with Rita behind Hope's back. In addition there is this stuff going on with Holly's mother and Roger's father; plus Bert and Bill with Bill's other family. It's really quite complex and multi-layered.

I love how deceptively simple the scenes are. The pre-Thanksgiving episode had Justin and Sara making an apple pie in her kitchen, but the way they talk about all this other stuff and how interwoven it is-- I found it to be very masterful writing, very absorbing. Another thing I notice the Dobsons do, since I looked at another one of their 1977 episodes is right after the opening logo, they start with a long five to seven minute scene. Just the one scene, no commercial break. So you really get drawn into what's happening, because the lengthy scene without any cuts feels like real people with real conversation. Then after the first commercial, the scenes start to get shorter, and they build, with a certain kind of rhythm. It just flies by, because with all these interwoven conflicts, all these layers of relationship drama, you get sucked into it and don't even watch the clock.

Another thing the Dobsons were good at, and Marland was too, is they have the characters kind of gossip. Like Bert Bauer is this pillar of the community but out of concern or compassion for others, she talks about this one and talks about that one. So you get caught up on the other stories through Bert's kind-hearted gossip. I really love that kind of writing, because it's how people are in real life.

And I enjoy how spacious the sets are. Jackie's home with those large windows and spiffy fireplace...the wide hallways at Cedars with the wonderful blue walls...the lounge at Cedars where Bert and Justin talk...Sara's kitchen...there's just so much space for them to move around. These feel like real rooms, not studio sets. Procter & Gamble put a lot of care into this show in the late 70s, probably because they wanted the hour-long format to be a success.

Just watching these two episodes from 1977 took me back to the Springfield I remember from watching the show as a kid. In the 80s, I think things got too chaotic, too many new characters and families were added. But back in the late 70s, they kept it pretty basic. It's easy to see why the ratings were strong and there was a resurgence of interest when the Dobsons were in charge. It's a shame the show had become so far removed from this basic premise during the Ellen Wheeler years in the 2000s. Guiding Light didn't really have to end. It just needed to get back to basics.

3 hours ago, slick jones said:

Sara had four husbands.  Lee Gantry, Joe Werner, Dean Blackford, and Adam Thorpe.

Thanks. Procter & Gamble partnered with some publishing company in the late 80s/early 90s. I remember being inside a Woolworth's department store in Chicago in early 1990 and there were paperback books that retold some of the early storylines. One book I picked up was about Sara's marriage to Lee, which if I remember correctly from the back cover of the book, he was a villain.

I watched the episode from the day before Thanksgiving 1977 on YouTube last night. And I have some questions.

It seems as if Alan and Elizabeth have just been introduced with young Philip. How does Jackie know the Spauldings? It seems obvious she's Philip's mother though that is being kept a secret at this point. But how did the Spauldings come to stay with her temporarily so she could be close to her son?

Also I am assuming that when Jackie was introduced she had already been divorced from Justin (though they would remarry later). I do remember Alan and Elizabeth divorced, which allowed Jackie to marry Alan for awhile to be mother to her son.

What is the time line here? I would think Philip was born in the mid or late 60s. When did Jackie and Justin divorce? When did Alan and Elizabeth divorce? Did Elizabeth marry Mike? I seem to remember her being very close to Mike Bauer.

The 1977 episode I watched last night shows Justin rekindling an old romance with Sara, with him wanting to marry her. But I don't recall them ever marrying. Did Justin have any wives in between his two marriages to Jackie?

And how many different husbands did Sara have?

7 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Fair enough...should be watching more carefully.

 

Is it fair to say that the majority of scenes are taking place outside of Hope Memorial?

 

This was a criticism of Marland's upcoming writing, but is DePriest guilty of this also?

Yes. When she spends many episodes with long scenes inside the Conrad home we can say she's guilty of it too. It's weird when they have a whole episode that takes place away from Hope Memorial then use the hospital set at the end for the closing credits. It seems disjointed, like the show is losing its main identity.

15 hours ago, MonaCroft said:

The negativity above about the production values and acting talents is a bit over the top.   From what I understand, TD cut it very close from tape to air date.  They likely were working on a quick turnaround.   Indeed, it taped at NBC in Rock Plaza where none of the crew had likely trained on soaps.  Also take into account the era.   Audiences were not as mean and super critical as they are today.  As for the acting, it is generally good.   There are some isolated bizarre choices, but, for the most part, the cast is decent.   I have admiration for those acting in this medium, which might one of the most difficult creative venues to be in.

I've never seen the value in making excuses for things that come across unprofessional and not as good as they could be. There's a reason the show started to tank in the ratings. They had done over 3000 episodes by mid-1976. Some of the behind the scenes people had been employed on this show since the 60s. The fact they still can't do an episode without boom mic shadows is ridiculous. Why make an excuse about that? Would you make an excuse for a chef who can't cook your hamburger properly after making 3000 other hamburgers? We can be critical of these things as the consumer without it being construed as meanness.

I posted this earlier on the Daytime Royalty website and thought I'd share my thoughts here too:

*****

I've been spot-checking the show. I skipped over Althea's latest surgery and recovery, since it was just a rehash of her previous stories. And I don't feel like I missed anything. Last night and this morning I watched the stuff with Eleanor and the pearls in the glasses, plus the two episodes afterward (June 29 and 30 1976). Some observations follow:

Eleanor's scenes are too long. It's obvious she's DePriest's favorite. Scott's turned into a cartoon villain. Paul is also a cartoon villain but at least the actor is decent. Geraldine Court is having fun playing the devious Ann but it's so out of character to see Ann become that way. If this had been a newly introduced character, not an established character undergoing a radical personality transplant, I could get behind it.

I don't like how Mona's being written. She seems to turn a blind eye to all of what Paul and Ann are doing. A woman as savvy as her would not be so clueless, she'd be on to them.

Mike working for the law is uneventful. He came over to the Aldrich place and all they do is sit on that sofa with their legs crossed talking about Carolee not contacting her kids. Extremely boring, repetitive, and no action. We don't even see them making calls to people who might know where Carolee is. The whole thing is drawn out talk-talk-talk and ridiculous.

Mona being selected for a position on the board is so overdone you'd think she just won a Nobel Prize award.

The Dancy daughter plot is still being dragged out. It's clear DePriest is a conservative in the episode where she was the only credited writer and obviously furnished all the dialogue. Having Matt and Hank talk about hospital policy about euthanasia, then the mention of how it's illegal to unplug someone in Joan's state (at that time), then giving villain Paul the position that he opposes Matt and thinks life support should be ended-- it's all heavy handed, meant to manipulate conservative-minded viewers who are pro-life. It's kind of like the way this show handles abortion. Nobody is allowed to play god and take a life. If they do there will be dire consequences.

The only actress who is consistently good is Julia Duffy. She's the only one I find compelling episode in and episode out. The others are going through the motions, flubbing their lines, getting out of character. But Duffy is a pro in every scene she does. She gives us a very interesting, nuanced character. It's easy to see why she had so much success in primetime.

Nick is bringing out the more loving side of Althea. And she actually seems more feminine with him. But we know this isn't going to last.

Stacy's pill popping storyline is absurd. All her storylines are contrived and have been a flop. This idea of her being sexually frigid has been played to death. They should be taking her in a new direction, making her more self-confident.

M.J.'s story with Dr. McIntyre (who does not have a first name in the credits) is dull. No chemistry at all. Another dud story eating up screen time.

I don't like the new hospital set. They've tried to make the nurses station look like a pharmacy with all the stuff on the shelves. Nowhere on this show do we ever see anyone use a cotton swab, apply a bandage, use a tongue depressor or even dispense an aspirin. So to have these "props" on a shelf, just set dressing and nothing else, is about as fake and bogus as DePriest's scripting.

The guy who plays Jerry has an awkward way of kissing. And then there's Gerald Gordon who is constantly trying to put his tongue down Liz Hubbard's throat, which is what he used to do with Geraldine Court. The Hollywood studios used to give contract players lessons on everything from horseback riding to fencing to kissing. The actors on The Doctors could benefit from lessons in screen kissing to make the scenes more dignified, natural and realistic.

There are boom shadows in every episode I watched. Sometimes the shadows fall on the actors' faces or over their hair, or the shadows are cast on the walls right behind them. The lighting on this show is a problem. After thousands of episodes this show should be able to light and film an episode without boom shadows. It's unprofessional.

The phones have smudge marks on them from the actors' oily fingerprints. This was very noticeable when Paul was using a black telephone receiver in his home. Stacy also used a black phone receiver in her apartment. If they were using white or beige-colored phones the oily smudges would not be visible because of the bright lighting on this show. Or if they continued to use these dark colored phones, then surely the set decorators should have the stage hands wiping the phone receivers clean. There is no way a doctor is going to put a dirty phone receiver up to his ear. Too dirty and too many germs. So it's very unrealistic that Paul's phone is as oily looking as it is.

The actress who plays the Dancy mother is adequate but she has a weird smile she does between some of her speeches, like she's happy she just remembered her lines. She was much better on All My Children playing a sour-faced character. On this show she's supposed to be torn up about her daughter's medical situation but I don't buy her lack of genuine emotion.

DePriest's pre-introduction of Nola Dancy is silly. She just keeps having people say Nola sings and plays the piano, as if this is supposed to define a new character and get us anticipating her arrival. A lot of people sing and play piano, what makes her so darn special?
 

Jarrod, I'm curious about what you, and others think, about Rusty. I don't know how I feel about him. It's clear that Ralph Ellis and Eugenie Hunt are trying to craft him as a long term threat to Liza and Travis' happiness as well as making him a major antagonist in the lives of many Hendersonites. The problem I have is it just seem to work, which is odd because Warren Carter works beautifully in this sort of role as sh*t stirrer who also seems to have some of his own emotional angst. I would have to say my biggest gripe with Rusty is the lack of attention that the writers pay to the relationship between Rusty and Travis. There are very few scenes with Travis and Rusty connecting or trying to connect. The Rusty and Liza dynamic fascinates me now that we've gotten to a point where Liza has Rusty's number, she knows she can't change Travis' mind about his father, and she just takes some pleasure in knowing that she and Travis will be stronger if she doesn't give Rusty the power to break her.

And Rusty continues to try to break her. In the last few episodes I've watched, the latest stage of Rusty's plan is playing out. He has Ringo trail her in his car to convince her that someone is after her. To make the situation more real for Liza, Rusty misplaces documents that Travis needs for a Sunburst experiment at TI requiring Liza to drive the papers to him. The whole situation is engrossing, but then we finally learn Rusty's motivation from a conversation with Aja. Finally, Rusty admits that he wants Liza away from Travis because of a stipulation in the General's will that Rusty will be the guardian for the stocks that have been set aside for Travis' first born. Of course, there's a deadline for the birth of said child that, if it isn't met, the stocks revert to Travis and Martin. So Rusty wants money and power. Simple and compelling motivation except it is predicated on the idea that this was written when the General believed Rusty was dead. Did the General really not remove a codicil for nearly twenty years before he died? That's a stretch especially given how much attention has been given to things like the dynamic between the General / Martin / Rusty. It would make more sense for Rusty to buy the stocks that Martin has with Rusty trying to make the argument that he is family. Maybe that's where this was heading, who knows. 

My interpretation of Rusty, maybe I'm wrong, is that he was designed to be a heavy in a way that Martin couldn't be. Previous writers had made Martin more of a rascal instead of a villain. So Rusty was another member of the family from that same older generation who did more heinous things than Martin (and as a result had a shorter shelf life).

Maybe the writers had planned for Rusty to rape Liza, that might have explained all this build up and extensive scenes between them. I agree there needed to be more Rusty-Travis interaction. But if Rusty had done something truly vile or offensive to Liza, then surely Travis would have had a bigger stake in it and would have had more scenes with Rusty during the aftermath/fallout.

Warren Carter worked as a character because he was a younger generation example of a guy trying to climb the rungs of society and make a name for himself. Rusty was already established in his many (nefarious) business enterprises. But Warren was basically just starting out, just starting his life of crime. I think Warren's death was premature. He should have survived Suzy's shooting him and gone back to prison. There was more they could have done if he'd gotten out later on a technicality and stirred up more trouble for Suzy, Cagney, Wendy, Jo and the others.

I honestly thought they would put Buzz with Alexandra. That was hinted at several times, even during Joan Collins' short three-month tenure. But I guess Lillian and Buzz were okay, not offensive. I agree that having Beth and Harley as step sisters is a neat idea, an idea that Pam Long would have gone to town with.

I always felt that if Wheeler had brought Pam Long in around 2007, the show could have rebounded. Instead it became more about a cheaper production model over good writing.

I didn't mind Bradley Cole as Jeffrey, though Richard was the far better role for him. Richard was consistent. Jeffrey was all over the map. I didn't care for Jeffrey's weird affair with Beth, which Conboy & Weston did. It made no sense. Also Jeffrey's sudden dalliance with Marah before Marah left town. Didn't Marah end up moving to Paris to be with Mindy? The Lewises were always going to Paris which seemed silly.

As for the ITL episodes being Emmy bait, I think all producers design stories with head writers that are meant to sway Emmy voters. It's how they garner free publicity for the show. So that's one thing Ellen Wheeler did correctly. Putting Gina Tognoni or Kim Zimmer in a position to snag another Emmy brought Guiding Light much-needed publicity/hype in those final years.

Yes, Doris became a lesbian (at the turn of a dime) and her daughter's name was Ashlee. I didn't find Ashlee to be a compelling character, except when she would temporarily interact with Jonathan. Killing Tammy off baffled me but letting Tom Pelphrey go and writing Jonathan off was an even bigger mistake. Pelphrey was his generation's Michael Zaslow. The show needed that new "Roger' to drive long-term story and Jonathan's volatile relationship with Reva was perfect made-to-order drama. I felt Sandy was a dud, probably because of how he was introduced. And after Conboy and Weston left he was quickly axed by Wheeler & Kreizman which didn't surprise me.

The Boudreaus were a family with great potential. But like so many African American characters on the show, they fell flat. It would have been better if they had brought Gilly back. Maybe she could have married the Boudreau father and been the matriarch to Mel and Remy. That would have connected this newer family more to the history of what came before. After Mel married Rick, she was given two careers-- lawyer and doctor, which seemed unrealistic.

On 8/5/2018 at 9:58 PM, dc11786 said:

If I remember correctly, the Peapack transfer happened in February, 2008, during the Writer's Strike. I believe "Guiding Light" had a short period with no writers credited because they planned ahead and had extra scripts. Also, I think one of the early scenes pre-transition or post-transition involved a wedding or some other gathering where Mallet and Marina were fighting about something and, in the background, the weather was constantly changing in the window. It rained one minute, the next it was sunny, and the next it was raining again. Something along those lines. Am I making this up?

 

I didn't like the "Inside the Light" episodes. One every now and then could have worked. I think they were trying to hard when they did one every week. I was already waning in my viewership by that point, but when they had Lizzie trying to figure out who slept with who and it turned out to be Olivia and Buzz I was done. Horrifying. I didn't even stick around long enough to see the superhero one. I do remember Ross being declared dead, buried, and Blake declaring she would run for office all in a single episode. At the very least, I felt it was two "In the Light" episodes. To be fair, I do believe those Wednesday episodes helped the ratings didn't they? 

 

I felt Wheeler was constantly trying to create a show that would never work with the budget limitations she was given. I almost would have respected her more if she and Kriezman made careful, but painful, cuts to the cast and tried to rebuild a Springfield that could survive. I really didn't see the Spauldings as a functional unit without Phillip around. I'm sure others will disagree. It all seemed so fractured. For a moment, I thought the show was going to pull it together when they brought back Alan-Michael, had Beth marry Alan at Ravenwood, and their was a looming board meeting. There was a great scene where Harley and Gus are in their obnoxious glory ranting and raving about something and Beth just looks on mortified that they are the ones who will lead the family. At the time, Beth was gunning for CEO of Spaulding, or whatever the main title was, which was why she married Alan, and he married her to goad Phillip into returning. I understood why the characters were doing what they were doing and then suddenly they decided that Harley was going to be the new CEO and I just couldn't bother. St. Harley wins again. I'll pass. 

 

I never understood how characters like Mallet, Natalia, Grady, Cyrus, and Susan became so prominent in the shows final years. So much low-energy to no-energy additions that I just couldn't get behind. They weren't necessarily played by bad actors, but I felt so many of Wheeler and Kriezman's additions brought so little to the show in those final years. If the storytelling was stronger it could have worked, but I don't know if Kriezman told any story that built to a satisfying climax that didn't involve mental gymnastics to make the story work. There were always interesting ideas and dynamics that would be touched on occasionally, but anything that seemed worth investing in longterm just petered out. 

 

I didn't like Natalia and Olivia. I'm glad they didn't go the route I thought they were hearing with using Gus' heart as the reason the two women were falling in love with each other, but I felt Olivia with Natalia was as awful as Olivia with the Cooper men. 

 

The Peapack episodes were just so poorly done. I do remember trying to watch once Grant Alexander returned, but the production was just awful. I feel like everything echoed in the "Spaulding mansion" and it was surreal to watch Buzz sitting on a bench in the middle of the suburbs talking to ghost Jenna. And I can't remember what song they blasted over Buzz sobbing over Coop's dead body, but it completely took me out of the moment. 

Great comment(s). I agree that a lot of characters added in the later years fell flat. I thought Ava had potential, especially when she was revealed to be the daughter of Olivia & Jeffrey but they didn't really develop her properly. I couldnt' stand Doris and her overweight daughter whose name I can't recall. The plot where Doris married Alan was absurd.

I didn't mind Cyrus too much. I liked his storyline with Alex. It was probably Marj's biggest story in the 2000s. But of course Cyrus, like so many other men, had to eventually be paired with Harley. I still remember Beth Ehlers' last episode. To me that's when GL completely fell apart. A show without Harley just seemed dead in the water.

I was not a fan of Otalia...they felt over hyped. I never bought Olivia being gay and not even bisexual. She had gone through so many men in her early years on the show and she always kind of seemed like a brunette Reva to me. It was like if they had suddenly made Reva gay or Alex gay, it just didn't fit the way the character of Olivia had been originally designed. She was never questioning her sexuality on anything.

The strangest pairing was Buzz & Lillian. Namely because both characters were pretty much played out by the end and theirs seemed like a default relationship (because there was no one else to put them with). It did give us Lillian's only on screen wedding. When she was introduced she'd already been married to Bradley Raines and that marriage lasted one storyline. So for 95% of Lillian's time on the show she never had a husband till she finally married Buzz.

I liked a lot of the Wednesday episodes. I think my favorite one was where Harley and Alan intervened to help Gus kick his drug habit. Ricky Paull Goldin, Beth Ehlers and Ron Raines were all fantastic in that episode. I do agree that these self-contained episodes didn't need to occur every week. Once a month would have been fine. Otherwise it started to feel too gimmicky. I think these episodes not only raised ratings but they also gave the actors a lot of the material they would submit for Emmy voting. Gina Tognoni earned two Emmys under Wheeler, and I think it was because of these special Wednesday episodes where she had a whole hour to basically do the show from her character's neurotic point of view.

One thing I like about the later years of GL was how Jordan Clarke was rehired to play Billy again full-time. He always brought something special to the show. Billy's relationships with Josh and with Reva, as well as with Vanessa, were a mainstay of the program.

Yes, great overview of late 82, dc. That was the time I started watching it, after it switched to NBC. It's a shame that Rusty didn't become a long-range "villain." It's also a bit sad to realize that both Travis and Martin would be gone by October '84. The successive changes in producers and head writers just decimated this family. And losing Sherry Mathis in the summer of '85 was the final nail in the coffin.

What did everyone think about the remotes where the cast went to help build homes in communities across the country? Sometimes the normal plots would end five minutes early so we could watch little segments at the end where Frank Dicopoulos and the others were building homes in New Orleans or wherever they went. Ellen Wheeler way trying to show them all becoming real guiding lights away from the studio. No other soap did that before or since, to my knowledge. Zimmer talks about it in her book. She hated it at first but then changed her mind, because she realized the good they were doing in some of those communities dealing with natural disasters and poverty.