Xanthe

3 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

I also heard that mid 1987 was the point where there were no more missing episodes, and that the end of the Sin Stalker storyline was missing. 

I remember the suggestion that they couldn't start with the early 80s because they didn't have all the tapes, but the idea that they were missing tapes from as late as early 1987 is blowing my mind a little. I wonder what the retention and cataloguing system was like because it was certainly common to have flashbacks to earlier events in the early/mid 80s. Most of the time they were pretty recent events (within days), but sometimes they were further in the past than that and they must have had a system to locate the clip they wanted.

2 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

There was a rumor going around that since there was so much turnaround the year before, mid 1987 was the easiest time for fans to jump right in and have a good understanding of the show, characters, etc. 

Didn't they also want to start there because it was when Anne Heche began as Victoria?

On 4/6/2024 at 10:03 PM, DRW50 said:

I would have loved hearing Agnes' thoughts on AW in the early '80s...

I would have been interested in her thoughts on any time period -- although I have to admit that I never really watched AMC or OLTL and don't have a good sense of what they were like under Nixon. 

I have to find the link again but I was reading an article originally published in the early 1990s that alluded to Agnes Nixon's having created a character on AW who had been Miss Black-Eyed Pea of 1960. Surely that must have been Lahoma. 

I've been trying to get my head around Sam Lucas -- was he supposed to be significantly younger than Ada or was Lee older than the novelizations gave me the impression she was? 

1 minute ago, chrisml said:

What was the deal with Neal Cory? I had never heard of the character until recently. Was the character another missed opportunity?

Neal (played by Robert Lupone) was a kind of ambiguous character who did a lot of shady-seeming stuff related to the Egyptian treasure. In the end I believe it turned out he had been on the side of right all along but he was sort of isolated so it was hard to feel good about the twist.

He pursued Victoria (then played by Ellen Wheeler) -- sometimes in a way that seemed like it could be charming, but at least once in a way that seemed like attempted rape. Then suddenly one day he left as his handsomer, more obviously straight-arrow brother Adam came to town to work for the BCPD.

I don't know why they replaced Neal with Adam so it's possible that they could have transitioned him into Adam's role if they hadn't decided to burn Neal's bridges. 

I have been reading Agnes Nixon's book My Life to Live. Here she describes watching Another World when Irna Phillips suggested she take the head writer position after CBS passed on All My Children:

Quote

I was shocked by the slow-moving, lachrymose episodes, which almost put me to sleep. I realized that Another World's only hope was to change the plodding pace by adding comedy. Not pranks, but the type of human comedy that we all share. This occurred to me because there were several actors on the show with wonderful comedic talent: Doris Belack, Tony Ponzini, Ann Wedgeworth, Judith Barcroft, Robin Strasser, Constance Ford, and Jordan Charney.

On first reading it sounds as if the actors were already there and inspired her writing, but based on the dates I believe Nixon created all of their characters.

I also thought it interesting that she doesn't seem to mention Rachel at all, not even as a prototype for Erica Kane whom she discusses as if the character had no precedent in her work. 

Unlike Harding Lemay, Agnes Nixon was capable of delegating to subwriters while headwriting two shows.

30 minutes ago, Khan said:

This one hurts.  A lot.

Definitely. I loved his Floyd Robertson for his irascibilty.

Since we are on a soap site -- at about 23 minutes in here he is as Rocco pretending to be Violet Mckay's long lost son Billy.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

Except, I think Rachel was more vulnerable, because her father had abandoned her and Ada.  She did some terrible things when she was young, but you understood that she did them because, to her, achieving social status gave her the kind of security she had lacked while growing up.

According to Harding Lemay in his book Eight Years in Another World (take with as many grains of salt as necessary), Olive was brought to town in order to delay Alice and Ray's marriage because of the timing of the recast from Ted Shackelford to Gary Carpenter.

An obstacle had to be devised to keep them from the altar. That obstacle materialized in Olive Gordon, Ray’s estranged wife, who appeared unexpectedly to demand a large settlement before she would free him. Thwarted in that, she quickly moved into an alliance with Willis to prevent Ray from marrying the woman Willis wanted for himself. In Olive, the fans once again had a focus for undiluted hatred. No actress on the show had received such condemnatory mail since Robin Strasser’s days as Rachel, and Olive Gordon was developed as the instrument through which John Randolph was destroyed.

The more I read the more it feels like Olive was treated as a plot device rather than a fully-realized character. Maybe Jennifer Leak's performance added nuance that I am not grasping.

I was interested to note since we had discussed Liz' disappoinments in love that apparently she lost Charley to Ada. I have a hard time imagining Ada troubling herself to take an active part in a love triangle. 

There were lighter moments, more to my liking, as brash Burt courted vacillating Clarice, whose father Charley had moved in with her and her young son and soon the object of competition between Ada and Liz.

Joe Flaherty of SCTV has died.

https://www.tvinsider.com/1129950/joe-flaherty-dead-tributes-sctv-freaks-and-geeks/

13 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Also, after Even was killed and Olive and John spit-up, Olive had short romances with Brian Bancroft and Dan Shearer. So those two were romancing Olive in that house.  

Did Brian have a home set after he split from Iris? I feel like I chiefly remember him at his office when he wasn't visiting other homes or squiring ladies to public events.

13 hours ago, Olive Randolph said:

It’s where Olive and Evan would plot to kill John

Did Olive have real feelings for Evan or was she just using him and vice versa?

7 hours ago, slick jones said:

ROMEO AND JULIET        Theatre 91

I know that Steve Schnetzer played Mercutio to Robert Sean Leonard's Romeo in a production directed by Charles Keating for the Riverside Shakespeare Company in 1990/91. (Gerit Quealy was Juliet.) Not sure whether this is a different production.

7 hours ago, slick jones said:

Nancy Snyder     3/18/1982 - Present     2 Children --  Ben and Max

https://www.metrowestdailynews.com/story/entertainment/arts/2020/01/09/from-soaps-to-stage/1931078007/

In the linked interview from 2020, Schnetzer mentions that he and Nancy are divorced.

1 hour ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

The house that John built for Olive was likely the largest set ever on Another World up to that time.  Although it was never described as a mansion, as Iris's house and Mac and Rachel's house had, the set for Olive and John's house was much larger than either. It was very modern in design and decor.  And from left to right, it had essentially four different spaces where scenes could play out.  First there was a small porch outside the front door, next was a foyer, then a living room, and finally another room rather like a den. And again, all very modern and completely different from Iris's or the Cory's house.   I believe the intent was to demonstrate that Olive was "new money," and eager to show it off.  Although John was certainly never a millionaire, he was a very successful attorney, and he went heavily into debt to satisfy his new young wife.  Sad that she was cheating on him with the architect.

It sounds splendid but it does make me wonder what percentage of scenes would be set at John and Olive's to make all of that worthwhile. 

2 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Kinda sad the way those boys got passed around from person to person lol their anger and resentment could have led to a good storyline once they were older

It's really rather strange that they were kept offscreen for the entire duration of Olive and Ray and Beatrice. I'm sure that there were probably some details that didn't make it into the synopses but it seems very odd that at the very least John would not have expected Olive to want to bring the boys to live with them once they were married. It almost seems as if there was no intention to make Olive a longterm character when she was first mentioned, and the children were just there to add colour to Ray's background, and then when Olive was brought to town and kept on staying they were such an inconvenience that Lemay shrugged and said they were with Doris and nobody missed them. And yet on the other hand hadn't Beatrice come to town because Alice had adopted her biological granddaughter Sally? Why so much less interest in her grandsons?

Still at the synopsis level, it seems as if Olive almost instantly jumps into bed with Evan Webster and starts scheming with him to design the house according to requirements that are different from what John wants just in order to show how very bad she is. Given where she ends up I am not holding out much hope that she will be extended much empathy that could explain any of her villainy.

3 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Idk the exact age but I’m pretty sure they were supposed to be young. I’m guessing Olive was supposed to have primary custody as well, but now I’m wondering who was taking care of them when their parents and Beatrice were all in Bay City at the same time. 

I read through some of the 1976 synopses, and they say that the boys were 8 and 10 years old and that Olive had gone with them to her sister Doris in California. Before Olive shows up Ray tells Alice that Olive is marrying another man and then a couple of months later it turns out that Olive and the other man have broken it off. Not long after that Willis goes to California and arranges to pay Doris and send the boys to camp in British Columbia. At the end of the summer even though Ray has been portrayed as a theoretically devoted father, while he and Olive and Beatrice are all in Bay City, he is fine that the boys are staying with Doris. I have not yet read through 1977-78 to see whether they have any good explanation for why they remain with Doris for such a long time. 

I also note in passing that the bust of Mac that Robert destroyed had been recently sculpted by Rachel and given to Iris as a present. 

12 hours ago, teplin said:

From We Love Soaps:

John Randolph had ended his long-term marriage to Pat (Beverly Penberthy) and wed duplicitous Olive Gordon (Jennifer Leak) in March 1977. At Olive's insistence, the couple began building an elaborate new house designed by slithery architect Evan Webster. Soon Evan and Olive were having a torrid, adulterous affair. The Dec.16-19 shooting took place at the newly-finished house. John was in shock after the event; it was only after Olive arrived home and discovered Evan's body that John realized his wife's deception. Her hysterical reaction ("You killed him!" "Evan..") pushing her husband away in rage & disgust) told John the truth. 

John had a breakdown, became mute and was psychiatrically hospitalized. Eventually, he recovered and was cleared of charges. He and Olive divorced, but she ironically would cause his death in March 1979 (when he became trapped in a fire she set to kill Alice). 

Jennifer Leak was an outstanding (and since unsung) soap villainess in 1977. Long-term AW viewers will remember her doe-eyed act with John and tormenting Alice (by denying Ray a divorce) and blackmailing Molly Ordway to do her bidding ("Do you want to go back to the cows & pigs in Chadwell?") Olive came to Bay City as Raymond Gordon's (Ted Shackelford) estranged wife. The neglectful mother of two sons, Olive enticed her way in to John Randolph's office and life. She drove the final nail into the Randolph marriage by ingratiating herself with John's daughter, Marianne. All niceties stopped on her wedding day to John.

Thanks. I'll have to look for episodes from that timeframe. The summary certainly doesn't suggest Olive deserved any sympathy.

3 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

I always wondered why they never introduced Ray and Olive's sons

How old were the sons supposed to be? I watched a scene where Olive was talking about getting her divorce settlement from Ray (and whether he could make a condition that she return to California) and she mentioned her intention to bring the boys to Bay City once she had the money. If they were minor children it seems odd that neither parent seemed to have custody.

4 hours ago, chrisml said:

Ed Fry's Adam was another charming actor/character who didn't do much after they did the retcon on MJ. I think he had more chemistry with Anne Heche than Laurence Lau (who is one of the few actors who does not play well on rewatches).

Poor Adam flirted a little bit with both Lisa and Victoria after MJ left. Unfortunately I don't think that the 1986-87 era was very attentive to defining networks of relationships outside a character's  primary storyline and when that storyline dried up they could find themselves at a very loose end. 

Ed Fry was charming. I even liked Laurence Lau with him when they talked as if Jamie and Adam had known each other as children. 

4 hours ago, chrisml said:

the character of Scott baffles me. In rewatching the show, it feels as if there were big plans for his character that just never got plotted (more than just the nature of his parentage). I wonder what kept the different stories from going forward.

I think part of it was that Reginald absorbed too much energy from everyone generally. Scott's primary story was his romance with Cheryl which was interrupted by his romance with Dawn. The conflict in the Cheryl story was supposed to be that their fathers were enemies fighting for Mary and I guess that Cheryl was an innocent virgin. Maybe they would have opened up Scott's story more if they hadn't decided to go with the Dawn storyline. But in a way I think Scott was also hampered by the fact that characters weren't well-integrated outside their primary storylines at the time. They don't have to be close friends with everyone -- they shouldn't be! -- but they should show the degrees of separation from time to time. 

10 hours ago, teplin said:

I can still remember the day John Randolph shot and killed Evan Webster, Olive's lover, and the end-credits rolled over a black screen with audio of Olive wailing over Evan's corpse. Chilling. 

My chief memory of Olive is only that I thought her name unusual and striking. I wasn't watching enough to really follow her storyline. Who was Evan Webster and what was their relationship?  

22 hours ago, chrisml said:

I'm less annoyed with the gorilla than I am with how they brought back Alice Barrett-Mitchell. They should have just retconned Frankie's death instead of bringing her on as Anne. Maybe that was the plan and they didn't have time, but it would fit in with the whole Lumina nonsense.

I'm torn because the Lumina nonsense also makes me see red and I think I would have been annoyed if that had been the crutch they used to bring Frankie back to life. Maybe if Lumina had been a hoax and Anne was a lookalike put up to the impersonation by Jordan Stark ... which could then either lead to finding the real Frankie still alive despite everything we had seen and heard, or the discovery that Anne was related to the Frame family. Although Sharlene was gone by then -- was there a Frame family to speak of? Josie I guess, representing the last vestiges of both Frame and Matthews. And of course she would be connected to Charlie.

36 minutes ago, watson71 said:

I suspect TPTB thought it was cute to revisit Carolyn during the last week of the show as a salute to Cass and Felicia’s capers with Wallingford.  I didn’t mind it, but the time they wasted in the last episode could have gone to Rachel having some flashbacks of past characters in the final scene of the series.

I believe Cass and Felicia explicitly reminisced about Wallingford during the Carolyn shenanigans. 

I have to say that when I think back on the last few episodes I am eternally grateful that the big event wedding was Cass and Lila and not Amanda and Cameron. I happened to catch a scene the other day where Jordan Stark was trying to make Amanda the vessel for Amelie and there was a lot of dialogue about the struggle Amelie had to keep control of Amanda because even though Jordan dismissed the idea, Amelie could feel that Amanda really really loved Cameron and that strong love was blocking Amelie.   

5 hours ago, watson71 said:

Ron Harper who played Taylor Holloway has passed away.  His character was featured on AW in 1980.

https://deadline.com/2024/03/ron-harper-dies-journeyman-actor-generations-another-world-loving-1235867791/

I don't really remember Taylor Halloway but I see according to the AWHP he was Kit and Rick's father and that he had an affair with his sister-in-law Miranda. Was there much of a storyline about this affair or was he just background for his children? 

A little while ago we were talking about the reuse of surnames for different unrelated characters. I notice that apparently the rich Uncle Kevin that David Thatcher smothered with a pillow had the surname Fowler which of course was also Sam's surname. 

I believe that Uncle Kevin was David's wife Jennifer's uncle rather than David's uncle and for some reason he intended to make Sally the trustee of Kevin's inheritance after Jennifer died.

Having Sam related to Uncle Kevin would not really have done much to enhance his storyline -- although I guess it could have added detail to Sam's dislike of rich people somehow. But David and Sally were dead and Kevin gone and none of that would have made the tension between Mac and Mitch's half brother any more intense.

14 minutes ago, danfling said:

I am now wondering about actres Janis Young.  She appeared on Our Five Daughters, The Edge of Night (probably in a day role) and Another World (which was produced in the same studio as Our Five Daughters).  

I read that after she and her husband (record producer Mark Abrahamson) divorced, she became a drama professor at Bennington College.  Is she still teaching there (doubtful), or how is she spending her time now?

She is on the Bennington website as faculty indicating that she was a full member until 2004 and since then has taught occasionally. Doesn't say how recently.

https://www.bennington.edu/academics/faculty/janis-young

This is not a new find or anything since the AWHP has the info in both the Actor Guide and the Minor Characters list, but I had not remembered/recognized that Jake's amnesia girlfriend Alison was played by Marin Hinkle. Actually I had forgotten all about the character and when I saw her I was trying to figure out whether it was a temporary Amanda filling in for Christine Tucci.

On 3/22/2024 at 4:35 PM, Mona Kane Croft said:

To anyone who was watching AW when Judith Barcroft played Lenore -- did Lenore have any storylines before her murder trial (for the murder of Wayne Addison)?  It seemed Lenore got plenty of screen-time in the early years, but I don't remember hearing of any storylines that heavily involved her, until Addison's murder.  What was she up to between 1967 and 1971?  

This is really before my time, but I was reading the New Yorker article that @VelekaCarruthers linked in the writers thread (for some reason although I wanted the link to the post I got the link to the article instead) and the author drops in a lot of plot references from this period including mentioning that Lenore was interested in Bill Matthews. I must say some of the plot descriptions are rather dizzying but I found them interesting.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1972/02/12/afternoon-television-unhappiness-enough-and-time

Post link:

On 12/15/2018 at 12:02 AM, slick jones said:

 

This is a screencap of Toby Miller, Mikey's father, 1990.   He looks familiar. He reminds me of Hunt Block. Is it him?

This is from a long time ago and I got very hopeful when I came across a couple of episodes from the custody trial over Mikey but sadly neither included credits. However he definitely does not sound anything like Hunt Block -- in fact I wonder whether he might not be American. There is something about how he pronounces "like" in this clip that sounds a bit English or something?

 

I had not remembered the part of the story where Donna has Mikey's mother arrested for prostitution.

3 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

He helped the audience to understand the reasons for Liz's meddling behaviors -- loneliness, abandonment, lack of love.

Did Liz ever have any romantic relationship that wasn't one-sided and/or with a creep? I believe she was disappointed in Wayne Addison, Mac, and Milo the producer.