lilyredd

4 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

This was a good one!  There was tea spilled and Alan surprised Brooke with special guest Tom Wiggin. Brooke and Tom took over and it was terrific!

At the end talking about her other projects.

 

Thanks for sharing. I loved Sam and Lucinda’s relationship and I had no idea Sam was always part of the story. I just assumed she was added later.

Finally took the time to watch the Locher room celebration of Elizabeth Hubbard. It was lovely. While I would have liked to hear from other actors she shared screen time with like Bryggmann, Hensley, or Wiggin, I think Bryce and Byrne did a great job and allowed for more of an intimate portrait of Hubbard. 
 

My favorite anecdote was from Bryce when he said Hubbard would come back from vacation and they would find a 6’4 man with a foreign accent drinking coffee and she met him Africa. Make me wish they had incorporated something like that for Lucinda. 
 

Hubbard will always remain a favorite of mine. She was interesting, she acted in an interesting manner, she lived an interesting life. I think the phrase, “they don’t make them like they use to,” works here. She stood out like Robin Strasser, or Beverly McKinsey or Eileen Fulton. There is just something about these actors that made their shows interesting. 

Just a FYI, but Scott Bryce and Martha Byrne will join Alan Locher to pay tribute to Elizabeth Hubbard on August 16 at 3 pm. 

Paolo Serganti was a fabulous find. He made Lily slightly better for a few episodes. I cannot help imagining what type of chemistry he and Melanie Smith could have created. 

The writing for Craig was so awful. Recasts happen but the writers just spit on his history for the reason of what?  Showing Craig as a supposed “strong” man? I loved his relationship with Lucinda - love, hate, attraction, etc. They bring him back and he has people poison her to get Worldwide. WTH was that? She wanted him in her company - a more nuanced approach could have been his getting her to crown him king and keep the Walsh/Montgomery clan intact.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I know Elizabeth Hubbard was far more than just Lucinda, but that's where I first saw her, and how I will probably always see her. 

On paper, Lucinda seems like a deceptively simple character - a Freudian case study, meddling and never being satisfied, always losing those she loves - but Liz made her far more. She was an incredibly dynamic presence, one who was absolutely born for the 5 day a week format, because she always kept you (and her scene partners) on your toes. Whether it was a line read, or even a look, you never knew what you were going to get. You enjoyed watching her. She made ATWT a more vibrant show, from her first episode to her last, and no matter how naughty - at times bordering on monstrous - Lucinda could be, you still cared about her. I still remember, as a kid, how moved I was by her performances when Walsh was taken away from her. You might have been able to argue that Lucinda "deserved" what she got, but the actual result broke your heart as much as it broke hers. Liz, often accused of overacting, was understated to the point of pure sorrow. 

Liz always cared, never ceasing to want to explore new avenues for Lucinda, never phoning it in, never forgetting the integrity the character should have.  She still wanted to tell stories like Lucinda going back to school, long after anyone at the show was going to bother with a character-driven tale. She still remembered that characters like Bianca existed, and added that to her lines. That clear passion, that basic respect for the genre and for her character, is what connected her with viewers. In a town that could sometimes be suffocated by paper dolls, ingenues and generic studs, Lucinda felt real. 

For all the talk of Liz changing lines or being set in her ways, she played a lot of material she knew wasn't great, she was loyal to the show as best she could be. That's one of the reasons why, when she finally did have enough in 1999, fans supported her, and even an increasingly stingy, hollowed out P&G supported her. And she rewarded them by being a stalwart for that final decade. 

One of the few positives of that last year for me was getting to see Lucinda back to her old self, meddling, scheming, doing what she thought was right for her family, and of course paying the inevitable price as she once against lost everything. Yet as she left for her happily ever after with her soulmate John, pledging to turn over a new leaf, you knew she'd be back. You knew she'd never really leave us. And she never will.

This is a beautiful tribute thank you. I loved this actress. I can’t put into words how her character has stayed with me throughout the decades. 

There are actors or characters or people that just make you stop and pay attention and Elizabeth Hubbard was such a person. I adored her Lucinda. Amazing career and I am so thankful for this wonderful actress. 

59 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I had a soft spot for Bianca. I just don't think they ever did much with her. 

I thought she was lovely but as you say she was not utilized. They, also, had two actresses playing the role which I took to mean the original actress was unavailable and not likely to stay. There were scenes,  brief though they were, where Bianca had a bit of an edge. I do not think the character needed to be a lead but I think exploring a relationship with Lucinda where they had a fabulous, supportive relationship, enjoyed each other’s company, had fun and were kindreds (as both grew up poor and both were daughters of women who worked as cleaners) would have been a nice contrast to Lucinda’s relationships with the other daughters. Everyone needs a kindred spirit. 

Bianca Walsh was by far Lucinda’s best daughter. They were simpatico. She never judged her nor yelled at her. She was 1000% team Lucinda. Usurpers steal her company- on Lucinda’s side. Lucinda lies about Holden’s whereabouts- well she had her reasons. I loved their relationship because it was the only relationship Lucinda possessed by the 90s where she was given complete absolution.  Bianca was one of those characters that should have always been around. 
 

Bianca was never jealous of Lily. The scenes after Lily divorced Lucinda and Bianca comforted her mom were wonderful. 

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

^^I always loved how Lucinda doted on Bianca. People might criticize how Lucinda was supposedly made the controlling, out of control heavy presence in both her daughters lives but I contend that her relationship with Bianca offered a different view, especially since Bianca willingly received Lucinda’s affection, in a way that Lily and Sierra sometimes found smothering.

Same. They seemed at times kindred spirits. 

My recollection of the Royce story is he was abused as a child, developed DID and accidentally killed Neal while one of them. After the trial, he was sent to an institution to recover. When he returned integrated, he and Emily resumed their relationship but at their wedding he couldn’t marry her and broke it off. Emily sought comfort with. Craig. I don’t remember many details as I found Royce unappealing even though played by a great actor. 
 

It did not make sense to me for Royce and Neal not to tell Lucinda who they were and strangely I think the story was told too quickly. 
 

4 hours ago, blueberrywaffle said:

What happened between Emily and Royce ? In November 1993 they were going to get married but in the next available episode (December 13 1993) they seem to have broken up and she likes a man named Craig ?

He left her at the alter. 

9 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Definitely a weak ad, but I loved the story and my unpopular opinion will always be that Craig and Lucinda had heat and passion (that I found and still find lacking with him and Sierra) and that they should have had long term affair through the years. And not just such a one-sided obsession as was written for Lucinda toward Craig. 

I think Douglass Marland was an incredible storyteller and a writer who cared about the audience, the show, and sought to tell compelling stories. I remember reading an article where when he came aboard the show he went to lunch with Hubbard  and asked about her character motivations and that he had planned as early as 1985 to pair Lucinda and John.

That type of planning, execution demonstrates his meticulousness. He knew all the players on his chess board and where he wanted them to go years into the future. More soap writers like that would help the genre. But at the same time, with Marland this lead to a rigidity with him where he seemed unable or couldn’t imagine characters with different stories or having different experiences. For example,  Lucinda did not need to be so obsessed with Lily - Lily supporting the people who took her company should have been a wake-up call (stop giving her stocks) and how many times even before she knew the truth was Lily whining about wanting Iva as her mom? Allow the character to distance herself from Lily- not stop loving her, but go do whatever she wants because she will never be enough for Lily nor will she ever truly be on her side. Be a full on bitch, Miranda Priestly style.

I, also, agree the show seemed to really reflect his experiences and desires and he ran out of ideas. Thus, the Lily/Holden retreads. I like a good dark tale, but when you have joyful characters like Lisa and Lucinda all depressed, that’s a problem.

8 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

I have no doubt..I was just giving my opinion..plus there were other factors involved with the ratings then just approving of the material. But IMO overall GL was more of an "enjoyable" watch..they had family, community, friends, mystery, business, love stories, some topical things, camp and of course, humor and just fun, which the at this time morose ATWT did not have.

Oh yes, and sex..GL had some good heated sex going on, which ATWT was too polite (or depressed) to show.

I know this conversation has been discussed but ATWT was very dark in the early 90s and I find your perspective mirrors mine in some ways.  I think the politeness and lack of passion is another thing that hindered my enjoyment of those years. Like with a trial attorney having co-counsel during the trial is immensely helpful, Marland needed someone sharing head-writing duties.  

8 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I think Liz may have felt the same way, which might be why there are  moments of  her on the up, like Worldwide being such a success. I do agree that it was missing something for Lucinda to never really get a proper romance again post-John - Scott was never anything real, and then Marland passed. To be honest even if he had lived I  think Lucinda probably would have remained alone, as he seemed to work hard to phase out that more  passionate side of her.  

I agree. While I know how popular Marland is, I did not trust his writing and if he had lived I would not have been surprised if he wrote her out. 

Thanks for the episode. I have such a love hate feeling for that era of ATWT-the 90s -wonderful acting and great use of the cast but I felt so much of the joy was missing from Marland’s later stories. I totally have an agenda for one of my favorite characters (Lucinda). I hated that most of her stories became her losing -John, her company, Lily, Neal, always rejected- even Ambrose abandons her for Walsh Enterprises. Hated her falling all over herself for the likes of John Dixon. Divorce his boring a*& and go have some fun. 

Rest In Peace, Kiddo.

On 3/20/2022 at 9:59 PM, Soapsuds said:

 

Thanks for posting this, I hadn’t seen this uploaded before. The episode in some ways epitomizes what I loved and hated about Marland (especially 90s Marland) -layered stories, clearly planned stories, community, but awful couples and too much politeness. 

16 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

This just breaks my heart. I loved Iva - one of my favorite soap characters ever. As a kid, something in me connected with her immediately. She suffered and suffered and suffered, which could have been very maudlin, but  Lisa rarely played the material in a melodramatic way. She connected with the pain of Iva and never let viewers forget what Iva had gone through, even when it might have been easier to do so. She was at her best in the quiet, sorrowful conversations with her family, or when she found out about Ellie and Kirk. As time passed, the sorrow seemed to completely consume  Iva, but I never stopped wanting the character to have everything she had dreamed of and which was never in her grasp.  I never forgot Lisa's presence on ATWT, even after Iva was written out and barely mentioned, and I never will. 

Lisa was born in the wrong era - she would have been right at home in the "queens of the lot" era of the '30s and '40s. That's why she was so at home in the old Hollywood homages Nola went through,  especially the Bette  Davis  moments Davis herself wrote her a fan letter in praise of. 

Even if  the filming was shambolic in that final year,  I'm glad Lisa was  willing to return as Nola for the finale, and give fans a chance to say goodbye.

The main moment going around for Lisa seems to be Lily's paternity reveal, which, to be honest, I did not care for as a scene, so I will post this instead: 

 

Lovely tribute. She just shines as Nola. So multitalented. 

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I don't remember which scene she submitted for her Emmy reel for the '88 Daytime Emmy awards, do you remember? 

It was a shame that Ellie and Kirk ended it getting married because Iva and Kirk were a much more entertaining and dynamic fit. I thought each was the others' best pairing on the show but I don't know if one particular scene stood out for the Emmys, it was more about the banter they had and the obvious chemistry that Brown and Tom Wiggins had.

It's just one of those quirks of the Daytime Emmys that Brown was never nominated for her work on Guiding Light despite how incredibly popular her character obviously was.

 

My main point is that I don't think that her best work from ATWT is even on YouTube.

I’m not certain what she submitted.
 

Iva had spunk when she arrived but Marland sent her down a dreary road. I think Brown had a bit of Garlandesque quality to her and writing her character as such a sad drudge was a disservice. 

21 minutes ago, Vee said:

Was this Craig or Steve, or someone else?

It was Craig, but I would suggest her best work was her first run as Nola on GL and her romance with Kirk Anderson which allowed the drudgy character that was Iva to shine with wit and fun. 

Immensely talented. Gone too soon. 

22 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

It was really a ONS. Lucinda explained that they knew each other before they had met her. Later she explained to John that they sought comfort in each other's arms because of grief.

Personally, I think they worked much better as antagonists, that's where the heat came from. Marland was smart not to revisit this, imo. Today's soaps show no such restraint and continue to beat old story threads to death. A mistake.

The only issue is her Southern accent afaic, There are people who look just Sierra in any Central and Latin America with the influx of Germans in the post WWII period (ahem, we all know why) and their German descendants stayed. Telenovelas are full to the brim with actors/characters who look like Finn and they were born and raised in countries like Mexico, Argentina and Perú and their roots are nowhere near the Iberian peninsula, lol.

Finn returned in 94 after Marland's death, and the entire show seemed funereal at that time.

When did she return before that? I thought her only previous return was in '89 when she helped usher Scott off the canvas, when he wanted to leave again.

Boynton's casting wouldn't fly either with that quasi-"Scarface" accent. The only person who would be allowed to stay would be Karina Arroyave.

Uh, when was Sierra ever in a triangle with Emily and Tonio??

She may have returned the same year or into 95 - she came on the show to demonstrate their marriage in trouble then to escort Craig back to Montega and/or Miami. I thought Carter and Bryce had lost their spark. The 90s were such a morose affair on this show to me. 
 

I loved Karina Arroyave. She shows flashes of Lucinda even in her too few scenes on the show. 

That was a fun episode. I loved Craig and Lucinda back in the day and still think they should have continued their affair. 
 

I enjoyed Finn Carter as Sierra and found her very believable as Lucinda’s daughter. I  thought she was a killjoy when she made appearances in the early 90s, however. As to her casting, the issue is real. Perhaps an argument could be made her father was of Spanish ancestry. I don’t think the father was a revolutionary, he was one of the leaders and an aristocrat- just like Tonio’s family.