JamesF

Carla is something. It's great watching her torment the weaker characters, particularly Maria.

Tonight's episode was fantastic. Janice distracting Audrey with an impression of Edith Piaf that caused her to drive into a tree. That's the kind of sentence you can't write for another other soap.

Just a couple of clips to throw my 2 cents into the thread.

First from a couple of months ago when Theresa took offense at a party nextdoor and dragged Rosie out by her hair:

And my favourite Corrie catfight ever between Gail and Eileen when Sarah found out Todd was gay.

I've been very impressed with Susan Bower's material. Though I think the incidental music could have used a little beefing up, the bushfire is fantastic and you can really see the budget increase.

They've done a good job too from what I've seen of psycho Jay holding Steph hostage. I'm not sure how they plan on pulling off her stabbing given the timeslot restrictions but I like that Bower is pushing the envelope a little. Even little things like Donna being bisexual. There's more of a balance between the Drama! of 2005-6 and the slooooooow pace since last August.

Oh I loved Jazz. She was a bitch but she had a real vulnerability to her that Holly Brisley wasn't really able to pull off in Amanda.

I've found the show pretty unwatchable recently if I'm honest. It started the year so, so well building up to Sally's departure and Johnny's murder but they really neglected to line anything up to keep the momentum going. The last time I watched, the uber-Christian mother of some new girl was holding a PTA meeting because she didn't like the curriculum that Miles was introducing to Summer Bay High.

Now I like the community stories as much as the next person but it seemed so derivative and flat in comparison. There's definitely been a very noteable shift back to teenage stories in the past couple of months.

Celeste Holm was finishing up a gig on Falcon Crest around this time and I don't think she joined Loving til around 1992.

I'm not sure who's playing Isabelle in this episode but it's definitely not the same actress from the pilot.

I watched the show through recently and have to agree with Cheap. Perhaps it's because I saw the high school stuff as a kid and have a very vague nostalgic connection to the characters but as soon as Brenda left, the show seemed to fall apart. The relationships were all so arbitrary, the guest characters were dull and it seemed a bit muddled.

I quite liked the beginning of Season 8 when a new headwriter took over and freshened things up a little but apart from that I was Brenda era all the way.

Raquel Welch didn't work and the character was a poorly conceived mess. Everything about her screamed Alexis retread -- banished away to Europe by her ex-husband, walked out on her kids etc etc. It needed someone who had a lot more pull as a serious actress to make the whole thing seem interesting. Instead it just came across as what it was. Throw a "name" actress in, go apeshit crazy with camp and hope it sticks.

Yeah Mariel worked for me because Stephanie was an ostensibly nice but stupid character. I enjoyed watching Carrie wind her up in the office. Rachel Dennis sort of represented the mis-steps. I didn't see that she served much of a point. It was like the Nikki character. At first she had a nice story as Allen's mistress that tied in nicely with the canvas but then she became useless. I've never seen the 3 or so unaired eps so I don't know how her story progressed.

I loved the pilot. Don't know why but it just appealed to me. And CBS sure as hell plugged it.

As for the writers, Terri Minsky certainly did a good job and I like how it was so obviously a precursor for the NYC vibe of Sex and the City for Darren Star and his cohorts. I found it interesting that Dallas writer Camille Marchetta was dragged into the camp revamp but then she was responsible for the Moldavian massacre on Dynasty.

I read a story once that Raquel Welch annoyed everyone on the show by constantly being late for shooting so John Barrowman got revenge by wiping his ass on one of her wigs.

Loved the show though. I rewatched some it recently and realised that I actually preferred it in the beginning before it went all Dynasty. There was something fresh about it for its time -- it had the trash factor but didn't necessarily come off quite as predictable as other shows. I certainly don't see that Mariel Hemmingway was a major problem.

IA with JamesF. Taylor was fun and a bright spot in season 6. Remember when she it herself with the door to trick Peter into thinking he beat her? LMAO

Loved it. She was just so stupid and ineffectual. Full of crazy schemes that wouldn't get her anywhere.

Coop didn't work for me because they completely wasted his potential. The Kimberly plot point could have been a tremendous springboard for a storyline but it ended up being completely forgotten. They should have made him psycho from the very beginning, seeing Megan as a Kimberly substitute to battle Michael for.

Sam bored me from day one. I can't believe she was there for so long or that they considered her to be interesting enough to make a regular.

I hated Lisa's character! She was just so whore-ish, I couldn't stand it. With those ultrapumped lips and breasts and a little too much lipstick... Hideous. As for Lexi Sterling – I know back then I hated her transformation from daddy's good girl on a vengeful rampage to a superbitch who haunted Amanda. Now, I'm kind of OK with it, although I saw so much potential in her being good and still believe it would have been a much better choice.

I loved Taylor! It always surprises me to find that she's so hated because to me she was the only bright spot in a very dull sixth season. I didn't find her enjoyable in season 5 but as soon as they started playing to Lisa Rinna's strengths as a zany comedy character, I warmed to her. I still remmber the scene where she tried to convince Megan that she'd drugged Michael to rape him. Hilarious.

As for Jamie Luner, I liked her as the bad girl but I didn't like the transformation simply because it didn't have any logic to it. I think it's a travesty that Luner hasn't got a regular gig on TV, daytime or primetime. She oozes charisma.

Wolfbridge was the big umbrella story in season 5 when Diana Gould was on the writing staff. Abby was funnelling Gary's money into a bogus corporation she set up to con Karen out of the Lotus Point development. She and Greg Sumner then got involved with the Wolfbridge group who turned out to be into organised crime leading to Karen getting shot, Gary faking his death and Abby being kidnapped.

Empire Valley began in season 6 when Dallas's David Paulsen came on as producer and wanted to make the show a little more macho. Paul Galveston partnered up with Gary to develop a model community on the land. Galveston died, Greg got involved and it turned out to be a cover for a secret underground communications spy centre. All very silly IMO. Gary blew it up to get everyone off his back but accidentally ended up causing arsenic pollution at Lotus Point. It was still being talked about in season 8 as Greg got the land back to clean up the spill (which he was only pretending to do but that's another story).

LOL mini-series. Never seen it but have read that line somewhere before. I think it was called Lace?

Was the Empire Valley stuff when Diana Gould was writing?

I don't think she was any longer on the writing staff for Empire Valley. The majority of it took place when David Paulsen came on as producer for a season and Lechowick/Latham were story editors. Diana Gould was involved with the Wolfbridge story but left after that was wrapped up.

I'm watching Empire Valley at the moment. The fallout with the arsenic poisoning and Peter Hollister arriving are good but the preamble didn't sit well with me. It seemed to go round in circles with Greg demanding his land back and Abby scheming until Gary just blew the damned thing up. Apparently David Jacobs thought the story was a mistake because it just got out of control and they didn't know where to go with it.

You're right about the slower style and episodic storytelling. As soon as Abby got Gary away from Val, it got a whole lot soapier.

I'm inclined to agree to a point. I think seasons 1-3 are really fascinating television. They're not particularly great for throwaway entertainment but if you're in the mood for it, there is some great character work. Episodes such as The Lie in Season 1 with Laura's rape or Let Me Count the Ways when Karen comes to terms with approaching midlife. Season 2 has some good themes of infindelity and then of course you get onto the fallout of Sid's death and Laura gaining independence. Obviously there are duds like Kenny and Ginger or some of the self contained epis but I wouldn't skip over the first few seasons.

The middle years before the Lechowicks arrive are much more hit and miss. Some iconic stories like Val's babies mixed with stuff that doesn't really hit the mark like Empire Valley.

I loved "Central Park West" when they retooled it! They brought in Raquel Welch and Lauren Hutton to be kind of like Alexis Colby and Krystle Carrington. Diana Brock and Collette Ferrier were their names I believe, and they hated each other. CPW took on a more Dynasty/Dallas/Melrose Place feel once it was retooled. Another one of Morgan Fairchild's shows was called "Paper Dolls", where she played "Racine" a.k.a. "Racy", a vixenish owner of a modeling agency. Does anyone remember another one on CBS called "2000 Malibu Road"? I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED that one! It was the story of four women (played by Lisa Hartman Black, Jennifer Beals, Drew Barrymore, and Tuesday Knight) sharing a beach house together while getting caught up in each others' messy lives. Hartman's character "Jade" was the owner of the beach house and I believe she was also a former prostitute. Beals' character was a lawyer, Barrymore's character was an aspiring actress I believe, and Knight's character played her quirky, overbearing sister. I don't know if anyone remembers this one in syndication: "Dangerous Women". It was very good as well, lots of camp, intrigue, melodrama, and even humor. It was the campy "women in prison" type of show that aired two back-to-back episodes once per week at night. Patricia/Faith, Cissie, Rita, Holly, Maria, and Crystal were the main women/inmates the show focused on.

Never saw Dangerous Women but it was based on the Aussie soap, Prisoner.

I enjoyed CPW and it was even better when they retooled it because it was as if they knew they were dead in the water so just piled on the camp, to hell with anything else. Raquel Welch was Diana Brock and Lauren Hutton was Linda Fairchild. They had a great catfight in a water fountain.

Paper Dolls I could take or leave.

2000 Malibu Road was great. It was aired over here as two part mini-series instead of 6 individual episodes. I remember reading that it rated well for CBS but for some reason or other it just didn't get renewed. The mini-series tacked an ending on the end a la Models, Inc tying up the loose ends. Perry (Jennifer Beals) ended up in an institution after being raped by Roger Tebor (Michael T Weiss), Joy (Tuesday Knight) got struck by lightening and recovered and I'm not sure what happened to Jade (Lisa Hartman).