Wales2004

This show gives the writers such easy outs because they can always undo any big moment they want.  I remember when Wells "killed" Cisco and they quickly undid that with Barry's quick trip back in time. 

Writing-wise I don't get why Barry would be so lost over the death of his father and disturbed by seeing his doppelganger yet choose to go back and save his mother instead of just going back in time a little bit to save his father.  Even if John Wesley Shipp did not want to be a regular, they should have handled Henry's prison release in a more sensible manner.  Having him decide to leave right away, after years of separation from his son, only to return to be killed off was such a waste.  And I really find the whole idea that Flash's adversaries can only find his loved ones if they are geographically close to him silly.  I guess that goes for Oliver Queen as well, since the same reason was used to send his son to another city. 

So if this Flashpoint is going to be more than one episode then the modifications are probably going to be selective.  I can see why they would eliminate his being raised with Iris, as this shuts down the idiotic "incestuous" relationship  criers.  But I cannot imagine that they completely abandon his relationship with Joe.  And if his mother never died and his father never went to prison then they would both be around which goes back to why kill Henry then? 

Barry is such an emotional character but they highlight his selfishness in the worst way.  Maybe they will come up with some great season of showing Barry why his mother had to die, laced with lots of pep talks that will speed him on back to taking back his words to Reverse Flash.

Eh. How is this damning to Hilary's campaign? Those laws were enacted over 20 years ago and in hindsight, do not work.

It's not. I just pointed out that he was helping her. Mass incarceration is one of the issues that is brought up in media race discussions as a major problem in "the black community" and a part of Hilary Clinton possibly addressing it as campaign bone is Bill Clinton acknowledging his contribution to it. He probably did not need to since his role in it has long been swept under the rug.

And to the people who still insist that we are somehow living in a post racial society:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/22/us/politics/obamas-twitter-debut-potus-attracts-hate-filled-posts.html

but I guess someone will claim that this is "playing the race card" whatever the heck that's supposed to mean.

I don't get those people who believe that Barack Obama's election is a sign of a post-racial society. Racial division is too lucrative to some politicians, community leaders, media outlets, and "race experts" for them to promote racial harmony in this nation.

Yesterday's breaking news:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/29/politics/dennis-hastert-indictment-questions/index.html

After Barry visited his father and his father urged him not to mess with the timeline, I found it hard to believe that he still went back anyway. I didn't like that he would go through all that agonizing to seemingly fall prey to Thawne yet again since he already seemed to make up his mind that he was fine with his life and didn't want to change it. I figure that this was just an easy way to undo Harrison Wells' death. Having Eddie kill himself took care of ending the body transfer since Eobard technically does not exist and Harrison Wells was thus never killed by him. Now they've just selectively altered certain things while still leaving Barry's life intact and the meta-humans as is and having some explanation to glaze over whatever might not fit such as how the meta-humans came to be meta-humans.

I don't know why Jay Garrick's helmet was used as Eobard's sign. I assume that along with the flashes are previews of the second season.

Another surprise was Cisco being a meta-human, which could mean Caitlin is one too? Interesting!

Caitlin was shown as Killer Frost.

I don't know if there will be a candidate in the 2016 Presidential election for whom I will reluctantly vote but I already know some for whom I won't vote.

In an effort to help Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton is fully supporting Hillary's efforts to change his criminal justice policies.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/06/politics/bill-clinton-crime-prisons-hillary-clinton/

I stopped watching Smallville because I didn't like the Clark/Lana saga. I thought the writing was too focused on the angst instead of the development of Clark into Superman. I know some people hated Lois but I preferred the way she was written to the writing for weak Lana. I tuned back in some time after Lana left.

I really liked Chloe and although I liked the relationship she had with Clark, I am glad that they were never more than friends. She and Oliver were perfect together, imo, and the only thing I would have undone was Oliver and Lois. It's too bad Chloe was gone for most of the final season but I like the way they wrote her and Oliver's ending. On a totally selfish note, I'm glad they changed actors for Arrow because it would have been so alternate universe.

Now that I cut the cable cord, this is the only tv series I watch with any regularity. I am glad that Iris finally knows Barry is The Flash because her not knowing just seemed to be contrived for drama's sake since the reason for not telling her was flaky. Maybe the intent was to give the character some depth at the point of reveal since she now has to evaluate her relationships with the men in her life.

Iris haters generally seem to be more whiny than they claim she is. I am no fan of the whole Superhero suffering from unrequited love but it's nowhere near being the whole show. I like that he acknowledged her significance to him and that his emotions are noted as part of who he is. His determination to clear his father is another aspect of how much love drives him and paints him as more than just another guy in a costume out to save the day.

For a low budget production, they did a respectable job depicting Grodd as terrifying and Jesse Martin made Joe's fear and vulnerability come across in a way that made me feel for him--especially when Grodd's face was close to his.

Openly evil Wells is great. Poor Eddie...

Those who defend Bill Cosby don't all have the same reason(s) for doing so. I think it might just be hard for some people to see the person they saw one way as a serial rapist. The number of women coming forward may not make it any easier for them to reach that conclusion--especially if they were never around him or never met him.

If everyone rationalized things in the same way there would likely be less strife in the world.

He seems to think that Obama not being embraced by a staggering majority of americans shows that the approach has been wrong all along. So, him actually getting ELECTED means nothing? What's the alternative? A descent into crime and drugs degradation?

I think his election is more about the voters who elected him than it is about him. Those who hate Barack Obama because of race were never going to take his upbringing into consideration anyway. Hating another person on the basis of race is irrational. Model behavior will not have an impact on that type or irrationality.

Once upon a time people may have assumed that "good behavior" would help with disadvantages and ward off the racists or at the very least, give them less of a reason to attack. In politics it is just thrown around as part of the manipulation to which politicians are prone. To say that black people should behave a certain way implies that orderly behavior is against the nature of black people and people such as Bill O'Reilly are only too happy to show their concern for the black people by doling out this advice, and pointing out some black man who said it, as though they've come up with some great solution.

The fix for racism comes from within the racist individual. The victims are not the ones who can solve it.

Intellectualizing race discussions with smart-sounding terminology simply allows people to make racism a profession and create distractions. The cure comes from individuals. Individual's thoughts and feelings cannot be legislated and all the aricles, books, and discussions will probably never address that and certainly won't change that.

I have zero interest in this movie but the movie soundtrack has some lovely songs on it:

 

 

I agree, profiling is there for a reason.

Profiling is just a form of sanctioned harassment. It's easy for people to pretend it's necessary to harass "the few" in order to "keep the masses safe." I'm sure the people who are its biggest supporters are those who are quite certain that they will never be profiled/harassed.

Nobody knows with one hundred percent certain which "muslim looking" person might be a terrorist or whether the "muslim looking" person is even a muslim. And I'm going to guess that the "security" people are not properly trained and generally just bring their biases to work with them when deciding who looks "suspicious."

Unless they are looking for a specific individual or someone sets off a detector or the like then either everyone is under suspicion or no one at all. The person most likely to do something devastating is probably very rarely the person people suspect and that's how they get away because everyone is busy profiling the innocent person.

As for general police profiling, they should include as part of their public outreach the need for people to be more descriptive regarding suspects. Saying someone is black male, a male hispanic, et al, is not enough of a description and gives them license to harass based on something vague enough to allow them to get away with doing it.

I was not bringing up gay people and saying Black people dont exist.

My cousin fosters a black girl and she had racism in her face and her home was vandilized and she got letters telling them hey N lovers leave the neighborhood. Is that not first hand experience

Also Gays have also been discriminated, murdered, hung, dragged by cars etc just like blacks. They are both horrid experiences but this my racism is worse than yours so I win [!@#$%^&*] has got to stop

I totally missed this but I do want to respond.

I was trying to make the point that being black isn't mutually exclusive of everything else and there are black people who are also gay. I wasn't suggesting that you meant that black people don't exist.

This is neither here nor there because if Joe is beaten up because he is a boy and Jane is beaten up because she's a girl and they both end up with cracked ribs then the reason for the beating doesn't override the result of the beating. I do make a distinction between residual racism and racism because one happens by association and the other is direct. It's not a question of which is worse but the victim of residual racism has the option of not associating with the target of the racism while the target does not have that option. I am stating that more as a point of fact and not to in any way slight any victim of residual racism.

Gay people may be discriminated against as have others but my initial point was that a gay black guy can be beaten, dragged, hung, et al. so I can't get with the whole this happened to gay people like it happened to black people when I know that this also happened to black gay people.

If a news report states that a black lesbian was murdered, is she a woman, black, or a lesbian? She's all of the above but being black in America seems to me that you cannot be seen as anything else by some people. That should be thrown in that great big discussion of race in America. Then again everyone who is not black or white isn't even invited to talk.

IMHO profiling & stereotyping is Racist & bigoted. Whoppi was in the wrong here about that you must be black to experience and know what racism is.

I didn't see the show but I just viewed an edited clip and I do agree with her on how racism is diluted when just about everything is labeled as racism. I believe she's right in that it probably leads to "racism fatigue" and causes some people to be less likely to care about more serious cases of it.

Idisagree that a person has to be black to experience and know what racism is. I think she may have been channeling some experience that she knows Rosie O'Donnell wouldn't have. I think Rosie bringing up raising a black child may have come across as having a black friend being the reason one is not racist.

Along with some other aspects of America's race discussions that I find off is the belief that only black people in America can ever experience racism or know what it's like.

Race is some sort of socio-political construct, imo, devised to subordinate people. Everyone at a certain point just fell in line and made out as if it's something wholly natural and not created by society and that everyone is somehow helplessly and hopelessly bound to follow and enforce.

I also get pissed when people bring up racism and then say you dont get it your not black

Then someone says Im gay or I raised a black child your told its not the same

Hate is hate. If we are striving for true equality here we need to support each others struggles and not be like well my struggle is worse or more important than yours.

Hate may be hate but I don't think the comparison is the same. I personally get put off by someone comparing being black to being gay as though black gay people don't exist. I could go on...

Raising a black child is defintely not the same because now we're not even talking about first-hand experience. We're talking about either being saddened by a child's misery or someone's hateful stares or words that are still directed toward that child. Mothers can feel pain for their children but I don't believe the can feel their children's pain.

Instead of trying to discuss these things through a prism of being able to "know what it's like or what it may feel like," maybe people should figure out that being the subject of discrimination or being an outcast is awful. So now that we understand pain and suffering exists go forward with possible solutions.

I wholeheartedly agree that racism should be a topic open to everyone. A person does not have to have experienced any of another person's experiences to know that it was bad or awful. If I fall and scrape my knee, no one needs to tell me that he or she fell as well to be able to say too bad for me or get up and stop whining about it.

Ann Coulter should know, she's a woman!

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/ann-coulter-most-women-who-say-they-were-raped-are-just-girls-trying-to-get-attention/

Are you just joking about her knowing on that basis? You can probably find a bunch of women who disagree with her and who would be right then?

I receive reinforcement every day that people either don't know what opinions are or they have a hard time respecting any that differ from their/s because far too many people are adamant these days that their opinion is a fact and whoever agrees with them is right and whoever does not is wrong.

She may be right if saying that some women may be seeking attention but many are not. Who knows how many suffer in silence.

BINGO. I feel those that are somehow surprised and/or disappointed that Camille and the daughter are staunchly standing by him, come from broken families, or families where members stab each other in the back. They can't understand the concept of a family sticking together for better or worse.

I'm not going to attempt to psychoanalyze anyone for whatever positions they want to take on this. There are probably a wide range of reasons why individuals would have a problem with their defense. I don't know any of them and I have no idea what they know, don't know, believe or don't believe. I just think it would be wrong on my part to assume that a wife and children are always well aware of all things pertaining to a husband/father.

His wife may have believed she was dealing with a cheating husband and maybe she was too consumed with her children and own issues to notice whatever signs/clues people believe a serial rapist would be leaving around the house. And who knows how the death of her son affected her.

And I don't think not being able to see something that everyone else thinks you should see in another person makes one stupid or blind either.

As for knowing how you'd react--you may very well be someone who knows how you'd react in a situation. Sometimes I think I'd know but there are situations where I'm unsure how I'd react.

I was raped as a child and I didn't figure out what happened to me until I was an adult. It greatly impacted aspects of my childhood and I know what it's like to be nine years old and want to die. I tried to kill myself and today which may seem funny to me today but certainly not then. Yet despite that, I cannot relate to any of these women. I simply cannot see myself knowingly keeping something like that secret for decades unless I had one of those moments like Pola Kinski who said she got tired of hearing people tell her what a great man her father was. I am certain I would not have been able to watch him on television or hear about how great he is without saying something. Any notion that we all would or should react the same way in a given situation seems faulty.

But they didn't all come forward at the same time. One was able to read the others' stories, and duplicate it. That's why it would have been important to have a police report, or some kind of record to corroborate some of this stuff, even if it was just ONE woman out of the 23. And most people won't point fingers at victims, even if they are not. because they will be seen as cruel, misogynistic, etc.. even if they are wrong. I'm saying the tide would turn with the naysayers if there was just ONE police report from when the events happened.

People are going to believe whatever they want to believe -- evidence or lack of won't make a difference to some. I don't know who is lying or who is telling the truth and I am not going to assume that the number of women makes the accusations any more credible. Nor will I assume that those coming to his defense makes the accusations any less credible.

If true, then along with all the other terrible aspects is the fact that this was not exposed soon enough to save some of the victims. A whole lot of enabling and indifference had to have taken place and all of those people who helped make this happen, if true, should be made accountable as well.

His family should be expected to defend him unless they know what this is true and I am not going to assume that they know anything -- especially his children. Crime shows and documentaries sometimes depict how people are able to lead double lives to which their families are oblivious. Unless someone is claiming this all took place at his house and even then people can get away with things and his children are of a generation that may not be as aware of what kids might easily figure out today, especially if they thought their father was a great dad.

Oh Carly, honey somebody still loves you

 

 

This is one of those songs I could easily find annoying but it hasn't happened yet:

 

 

A new advisory label should be created for shows like this: DT (Don't Think).

Jelena is pretty much the showrunner. He will probably never make her lose in any significant way, thus no real payoff for those who don't like the character or who merely want her actions to have some real consequences.

Viewers are supposed to be so shocked by all the illogical "twists" that they don't notice the millions of holes in the plots and the elementary approach, such as Immigration 101 (one can only obtain residence by marrying a citizen). Didn't Raquel get the goods on her invisible child's (or maybe I missed the episode with the child) father? Wouldn't she have found a way to address that years ago? Why is Jelena kind to her when she kept her off the team? Unless my memory is faulty on this, why would Olivia have gotten her that bartending job only to threaten her with information she must have known all along? And how does one get to be an instant bartender?

Terrence only exists for Jelena so after the break-up there was no mention of the restaraunt he named after her and clearly no women put the moves on him.

Ahsha was with German for years, lusted after a coke head and fell in love with him that quickly and was flipped back to German in an attempt to sell German as a killer.

Are there are any writers of poorly written shows who admit to it or are they all in the habit of using Twitter and such to brag about and congratulate themselves on their sub-par work?

This show thrives off not making any sense. Just throw in a shock here and there and the overall audience probably thinks it's great drama and fun. Being on in the summer is probably a big plus because if this played against much better shows the deficiencies might be more obvious.

I don't know why Charlotte Ross is gone but it's too bad since Olivia was one of the better characters. Adult woman vs. Bratz doll only makes sense in the context of mother/daughter feuding or boss/petulant dancer feuding. Realistically though, Bratz would have been terminated thus no story.

To add to the already long list of absurdities is the team dancer wanting to run/rule LA. Legit celebs don't even run LA. Nameless team dancers don't stand a chance. The only name I've ever heard associated with team dancers is Paula Abdul's. Once upon a time she choreographed for the Lakers Girls.

Sloane didn't bat an eyelash when Chase told her he raped Mia.

Raquel has had plenty of time to fix her immigration status.

Lionel hears Pete tell Sloane he loves her and this causes an insta-miscarriage. I take it she routinely flushes embryos down public restroom toilets.

Oscar had Olivia watched but missed all the other potential murder suspects....or he had no need to threaten them all....not even Derek Roman. Making a tape makes better sense than just threatening him like Jude and Jelena and blowing his Kylie alibi. Poor writer can't keep up with his make it up as I go along play for shock value mess but he doesn't need to.

Best of all is the post-mortem retcon of Olivia. The red envelopes made no sense. How was blackmailing the powerless Scooby gang supposed to help her?

She already had the goods on Oscar and his associates by virtue of her "working" for him so she could have hung onto that job forever.

The most laughable thing has to be German killing Olivia (again for shock and to be clever). Well, you didn't see that coming because it doesn't make one bit of sense. He's been getting Asha's mail. Uhm, she lived with him so it makes sense that mail which is addressed to her and delivered by the USPS might not be redirected so quickly. There was no address on the red envelope. Surely Olivia would know where to find Asha since she apparently knew so much about everyone. Plus Olivia would have walked up to all of them or texted not sent envelopes since she wasn't throwing a blackmailing party (which actually might have been more interesting had Charlotte Ross been around for a few scenes).

I'm just surprised the creator extraordinaire didn't throw in a scene with German saying "I would kill for you Asha." and turn that into a gif for his return of Gersha tweets.

The best thing about finales is they end my bad summer tv watching habits.

I feel as if we've hijacked this thread so I'd like to move this over to a new general music discussion and leave this as intended with a video to redirect it back: