DeeeDee

Y&R made definitely made a big mistake getting rid of her.

Though the lesbian story was unpopular (despite making total sense) & Kay made a great everywoman (like Judith Light as Karen Wolek) given the ratings it was understandable why they abandoned it.

She had a couple of great emotional scenes with Herrera & Kayser (one where she broke down about the state of their marriage to Herrera being especially good).

I do wonder what long range plans Y&R had for him, if any

Not much unfortunately.

While he was good even then Kay Heberle was the real star.

For those of you who were around, what exactly did "paid companion" Jill do?

She basically hung out with her (their relationship was a lot like Katherine & Amber's).

After Malcolm found out Callie was married to Trey he went off to Paris and ran into Dru and convinced her to come back to Genoa City with him.

No he didn't.

Dru wanted to rekindle things with Neil

No she didn't.

and about this time is when King took over.

No she didn't.

Dru was written out with some really flimsy excuse of not being able to hack it or something.

Nope.

See, this is a little complicated, because we're also dealing with a certain type of upper middle class black family that is just as black to me as the kids of A Different World, but when you add more kids, more slang, more hip-hop culture what have you, then non-black people suddenly see a "black show" when they were both just as black. It's like when people say that she show "got ghetto" with Pam and her friends. Offense taken. What I also find tough is the idea that upper middle class blacks were more "palatable" to certain white audience members, yet from the same group (and from blacks too to be fair) the show was criticized for being unrealistic by having a black doctor father and black lawyer mother. Like, how dare you say that's unrealistic?? White and no one would have batted a lash.

Yep.

I don't know why I get them mixedd up so much.

They had such a long courtship it's easy to do.

They really should put this series up for sale. I'd buy it. I wish they would do another show like this.

Amen.

That was Season 2. Dwayne kissed Whitley in the back seat of her car. He was pissed that they were stuck. Whitley through out her spare tire because it was too ugly. While they waited in the back to keep warm Dwayn kissed her. The rest of season 2 he made it clear he liked her but she was afraid to ruin their friendship and ended up with Julian instead.

Season 3 but otherwise you're right.

I beleive that happened on the Cosby Show

Nope.

It was A Different World.

Didn't Denise and Martin make an appearance on an episode in one of the latter seasons?

Yep.

Dwayne visited Denise at in NY & got closure then got trapped in a car in a snowstorm with Whitley.

Did this show even deal with homosexuality?

Not directly.

I loved when Rudy crossed over and Denise got jealous bc she liked Whitley more. I liked that story she told her of some snow princess

The Ice Queen story.

One of the best parts of the 1st season.

How was that story with Vanessa and her fiancee' resolved? They broke up right?

They never officially broke up but said they were just friends when they showed up together for Theo's graduation.

LOL! The twins annoyed the hell out of me.

Now THAT we can agree about.

Cliff and Claire liked Olivia more than their own damn grandchildren.

Yet she was never allowed to call them Grandpa & Grandma.

I felt like Tempest's story in the last season was a little too serious for her, although I liked the idea of it.

I liked it too.

But the writer's paternalistic writing had kept her "chaste" for so long all her relationships felt false.

That story would've been better served given to Sabrina or Malcolm.

I know what you mean about the kids. Olivia was great, in certain doses, but they also had her friends, and then they brought in Sandra and Elvin's twins...

Raven was amazing for the first year (not as effortless as Keisha) but still really good but then the writers started doing Kids Say The Darndest Things with Bill & Raven instead of writing Cliff & Olivia.

The twins were just a mess.

Bill Cosby's mugging had gotten way too OTT by then.

A lot of the problem had to do with the kids.

Sondra was too old to do cute kid stuff, Bill had problems with Lisa, Tempest was in school & adorable as Keisha was as a kid she was NOT a sympathetic teen actress.

Which left Malcolm (who Bill favored) who did a LOT of the heavy lifting (along with Tempest & Raven) as far as the kids toward the end.

Erika was brought on to help the show be more "earthy" & help Tempest but besides the brief sex story the show never gave Pam much to work with.

Raven was a wonderful actress especially at first but then the writers wrote her too precocious as she aged.

You can think whatever you want.

Right.

What facts am I supposed to present?

You asserted that almost every time white people appeared on the show that they were presented as racist.

FALSE.

You asserted that the show was "preachy" in 5 & 6 in comparison to other seasons.

FALSE.

You asserted that the election was always mentioned in season 6 when it was only mentioned in maybe THREE episodes.

FALSE.

You asserted that whites were portrayed as "racist, ignorant, and evil" & that the show was "pushing an agenda that whites are horrible people with no respect for blacks."

Both FALSE.

I wasn't in the room, while they were shooting out at ideas so I have no ideaa if they were purposely writing whites as racist.

You're still projecting.

I never claimed anything I said was fact

Yes.

You did

Your assertions didn't become "opinions" until you were presented with evidence to the contrary that you couldn't dispute.

Just becuase you showed me some supposed facts, doesn't mean I'm going to change my opinion.

Just because you change your assertions to "opinions" doesn't make you any less wrong.

You're welcome to dispute the presented facts until then you're just wrong.

Everything I have said about this subject in this thread has been an OPINION.

No.

You made assertions you can't dispute when presented with FACTS which clearly prove otherwise.

That's not an opinion.

That's being wrong.

So because you don't agree with what I said, my opinion is incorrect?

It's more than just "disagreeing".

You were presented with FACTS you couldn't dispute that clearly proved your assertions false.

I still felt that show was preachy at times

Which is a perfectly fine way to feel.

However you asserted that the show changed its social values & it didn't.

END OF STORY.

No.

Until you are able to dispute the FACTS it's not a "difference of opinion".

You're just wrong.

Kim: Kinu?

Whitley: Shay's blAck 'n jApuhnaise...

:lol:

Just about everytime a white person was brought on, it was just to show how racist they were

No they weren't.

That's the point.

EVERY time there was a racist White person there was at LEAST one counterbalance.

So your assertion is false.

I said that I felt like they were painting a picture of blacks being opressed upon by whites all the time.

And again the FACTUAL evidence clearly proves your assertion wrong.

that is just how I feel.

You're projecting.

That's not the show's problem.

You see it your way, and I see it mine.

No.

It's NOT a difference of opinions.

You made incorrect assertions & were proved factually wrong in every instance.

I still stand by what I said that in Season 5 & 6 they were preachy throwing social issues at us almost every week.

You're still projecting.

The show ALWAYS had strong moral & social values.

That never changed.

The racist store clerk in the episode Whitley went to go buy a present for her dad's birthday party.

Which is a reality & didn't happen in the last season.

The white men that Dwayne and Ron got into a fight with in the parking lot of the football game.

Also a reality, didn't happen in the last season & was counterbalanced by Ernie Sabella's character.

The white women who were looting during the LA riots, and were making remarks about blacks bringing it on themselves.

Again a reality & counterbalanced by Tom/Roseanne & the homeless guy.

When Charmaine and Terel got ran down people automatically assumed it was whites until Charmaine told them it was a rainbow coalition of idiots.

Which is "anti white how?

everything wasnt so doom and gloom.

Kim's dad getting shot?

Whitley being robbed at Christmas?

Josie having HIV?

Novian being homeless?

Kim's pregnancy scare?

Them almost getting killed at the beach?

Freddie almost being raped?

Ron not graduating?

Kim turning down her scholarship?

Zelmer going to war?

Frank being injured in war?

Kim & Matthew?

Alex's adoption?

Brad being a token?

Kim passing out?

ALL 2-4.

As for ADW's views on whites -- I rarely felt like the show was trying to say most white people were racist. I felt like, after the first season, someone at the show said, "Why do we NEED white people on our show? Just to show we're not anti-white? Please." So they wrote out Maggie and only had white characters in minor or recurring roles. I thought that worked. Sometimes they had characters make remarks against white people, but most of the time I didn't think that was the show's point of view, just certain characters.

+1.

Most of the time they portrayed whites as racist, ignorant, and evil

Such as?

In season 6 they dealt with the LA riots, the 92 election, Whitley working at a school with underpriviliged kids, Dwayne mentoring two gang members, Lena's friends visiting Hillman and accusing her of selling out, Terel bringing a gun to school after someone ran him and Charmaine down, Gina's abusive boyfriend returning, etc.

Topical & Preachy are two totally different things.

Lena said something along the lines that the problem is white people who don't understand and dont want to understand blacks. And that black people should have their own nation.

So?

That was LENA's opinion.

The episode also acknowledged both Freddie's Mom & Brad's ex-wife were white without any negativity.

the show just began to push this anti white, pro black agenda

Not at all.

Whitley: Look at Kim lookin' like Millie Jackson!

+1.