Videnbas

2 hours ago, yrfan1983 said:

I appreciate Macy more when she is in work and family mode...  as the Clarke story approaches its climax, she is a steady support for Sally both at Spectra and on the homefront.

Yeah, at work and in the family she is usually the voice of reason and stability. In her own personal life - not so much. Her inability to cope with personal problems (related to men) was always her Achilles heel.

So, I'm watching early 1991 right now (ep 955) and I still can't quite figure out what to make of Taylor's character. What was your impression of her in those days? This is where she is giving Storm's engagement ring a "trial run", while dating and making out with Ridge. Who would do that and why?

(On a side note, this episode has a brilliant scene where Taylor goes to Stephanie at Ridge's request to have a therapeutic conversation with Stephanie about the divorce from Eric, and Stephanie easily turns the tables on Taylor and changes the subject to Taylor's divorce.)

14 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

I'm on 1375 right now.

It seemed very different than what people had been seeing on B&B up until that point. It makes me think even more that Brad Bell had been given more of the head writing responsibilities at this point, rather than when it became official in 1993.

Thorne and Macy seem to be different as well. He's become like a mini Ridge, secretly loving the living arrangement that he has with Macy and Karen, whereas for Macy, it almost seems like she's degrading herself over this. Something that I feel she wouldn't have done before this point. 

 

I'm not there yet but it's an interesting observation. I have been wondering when we'd start noticing the Brad Bell shift.

Thorne definitely channeled his inner Ridge in that storyline (the premise of which was pretty contrived and sort of sexist if I recall correctly). I don't think it was necessarily in character for him to enjoy that living arrangement - I would have thought he'd be more respectful of women than his brother was.

As for Macy, I think she always had it in her to degrade herself for a man. Her very first storyline on the show was all about this - she fell head over heels for Mick Savage, knowing he was on the rebound from someone and wasn't over that other woman. Sally warned her that Mick was only using her, but she wouldn't hear it and even threatened to cut Sally out of her life for being against her and Mick. Then she begged Mick to take her with her to New York, only for him to dump her for Kristen who had been his first choice all along. Macy *always* loses her sense of self preservation when she falls in love.

4 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Sheila was the ingredient that made viewers check out B &B, but in 1992..the show was firing on all cylinders so viewers stuck around 

I'm not sure that is true outside the US. In my country, Y&R was never really a thing so when Sheila came om B&B she was just an unknown character and by then the show already had its loyal viewers.

I agree with @divinemotion that the setting was a major part of the attraction. The glamour (in my country the show was even called Glamour), the fashion... 

3 hours ago, Sasha66 said:

Who to you all’s opinion contributed to B&Bs success the most?

I think Stephanie was the show's center of gravity, so to speak. Everything and everyone existed in relation to her and had to take her influence into account.

From Stephanie, two main "force fields" emanated - Stephanie/Brooke and Stephanie/Sally. That is why I'd say Brooke and Sally were the second most structurally important characters on the show after Stephanie. 

After these three characters, the rest is a matter of personal preference IMO. I may have tuned in to watch certain characters, someone else tuned in for some other characters. But there wouldn't have been a show without Stephanie. And it would have been a very different show without Brooke or Sally. 

1 hour ago, sheilaforever said:

Now that I have in arrived in July 1992 I wanted to gush about the Sally/Clarke-storyline in those early years. While in the first few weeks, Bill Bell did some back and forth with Sally who started way more vicious and cold-hearted before becoming the woman reaching for ambition and respect – plus a crazy bunch of clowns going for laughs.

 

As soon as Clarke became Beau Rivage things got REALLY good. IMO, the show could have used this potential a while longer because… Clarke going full speed into Sally’s (personal) orbit happened not as organically as you would think in light of their long history eventually. At least; I thought that the wedding in June 1990 lacked some proper build-up and happened rather quick for the context of the time. Nowadays this would serve as an epitome of thought-out storytelling. LOL

 

Anyhow, Bill Bell was so smart to envision the sheer power of this couple and the storyline possibilities by not just having Sally draw up a one year term of the marriage contract but two years. 24 months is a long time… Again, it seemed like the final decision to have Clarke&Sally crash and burn happened more sudden than it was typically Bill Bell’s style: Clarke’s development from philanderer to perfect husband with some interest in Clarke Jr. stopped rather sudden. The show then came up with some good motives like the lack of sexual attraction towards Sally and the temptation that is Kristen, so that it made a brilliant story over all and Clarke was an equally fascinating character to watch. And the final climax in June 1992 was just divine. Darlene Conley killed the material, the script was crisp and the whole climax was just delicious. To my surprise, the show did not write off Daniel McVicar immediately, but again milked some aftermath material out of it

 

In the years in between we got the affair with Julie Delorean and Sally’s pregnancy. What a perfect umbrella story! Unfortunately, Sally never got this good, multi-layered and center-stage again like from 1990-1992. So I say THANKS for the uploaders of the classic episodes who gave me the chance to relive this magic!

Yes, I really think Sally/Clarke was a stroke of genius! They were both character types that just don't exist on the show these days. And their union, absurd though it may seem, still made perfect sense for them. Sally's desire to win respectability by making Spectra a legitimate fashion house and getting herself a handsome young husband in the process, and Clarke's desire to succeed in his career even though it meant marrying Sally whom he was not at all attracted to. And in business, they were quite a team, but outside the office, their incompatible expectations eventually caught up with them.

Clarke was really quite a fascinating character because his main focus was always his own ambition rather than any romantic interest. And because he valued his own ego above all, he always carried within him the seed to his own destruction. Time and time again, he got himself into trouble and it was always his own fault. He was the archetype of a man whose arrogance becomes his downfall.

And it was clear that in the *very* early days of Sally Spectra, Sally was supposed to be more of a mob boss type of character. But I think Bill Bell was really quick with the "course correction" when he saw the true potential of the character. I think I can pinpoint the exact moment where Sally's heart and humor were born - it was a tiny nonverbal gesture during an interaction between Sally and Saul. They are talking about work and Sally is having lunch at her desk. And without stopping the conversation, Sally casually offers Saul her sandwich (or whatever it was) and he casually declines. Neither of them mention the tiny interaction, it's just a natural thing that happens while they keep talking about other things, but it speaks volumes about their relationship - they are a lot friendlier and more equal in status than we've been led to believe so far. (Imagine Eric Forrester offering food from his plate to one of his tailors - unthinkable!)

Going back to watch the early Spectra scenes they are full of moments of nonverbal comedic brilliance. The dialogue just keeps going as if nothing at all is happening, and meanwhile they are making secret hand gestures, wiping lipstick off each other's faces, trying to carry too many office props at once, you name it.

On 11/16/2021 at 11:01 PM, Huntress said:

Adrienne Frantz (Amber) and Andrea Evans (Tawny) were believable as daughter/mother on B&B.

On the opposite, Jack Wagner and Lesley-Anne Down as son/mother were ridiculous. Nick also didn't look like Jackie and Massimo's son.

The short-term faux-Bridget who was in the role for a couple of months in 2004 looked more like a young Brooke than Jennifer Finnigan or Ashley Jones ever did.

KKL, Heather Tom and Jennifer Gareis don't look like sisters.

On Melrose Place, Josie Bissett and Laura Leighton were believable as sisters Jane and Sydney (even though Jane later turned out to be adopted).

Oh yeah, LOL, Nick and Jackie as mother and son! That was absolutely ridiculous. Jackie must have had Nick when she was in kindergarten.

And the blonde curly-haired Phoebe was not at all believable as Ridge and Taylor's daughter.

Other than that, I think there have been a lot of good matches on B&B.

Taylor and Steffy (HT and JMW) I think looked like they could be mother and daughter. The eyes, the hair, the facial features.

JY's Rick and AB's Bridget looked believable in the late 90s as Brooke and Eric's children (although they were more like Brooke than Eric).

CD's Felicia and RM's Ridge looked like brother and sister. The hair and the cheek bones.

Original Donna and Katie could definitely pass for sisters.

Sally and Macy were also believable as mother/daughter - about the same height, low-pitched voices, and something about the facial structure, especially about the nose and eyes (I remember this one scene where Macy's face morphed into Sally's face and they were virtually identical).

MC's CJ looked like a believable blend between Sally and Clarke.

Sheila and teenage Mary Warwick (CD) were also very believable as mother and daughter.

6 hours ago, sheilaforever said:

These assessments heavily rely on when you STARTED watching (or stopped LOL) because of the sheer length of B&B's timeline by now:
Due to Caroline's death, the whole relationship has the perfect romance status - forever. Even though the last time we have seen Caroline was her ghostly visit in January 2021. Ridge had to FIGHT for Caroline and he had the chance to GRIEVE for Caroline. (Something that has rarely happened since because pacing nowadays is soooo different!).

For me Taylor was always Ridge's second perfect love. Now that I've seen 1990-1992 it is a little harder to fall this assumption because I had no idea hoq quick the shift  of commitment happened in 1992. However, from 1993-2002 there was zero possibility for that Ridge actually loved Brooke. She was a caniving h* who always used her children for her own benefit and desperate need to cling onto Ridge. 

Ever since the show shifted to Nick/Brooke/Ridge and Bill/Brooke/Ridge we have entered a whole new aera in the traingel business which made Brooke much more liekable for me, but the perfect romance never involved Ridge.  

Indeed! The first time around, I started watching from about early 1988, which caused me to root for Brooke over Caroline because I missed the beginning of that storyline. Watching from the beginning it's clear to me that Brooke was the rebound and Caroline was the unavailable one that Ridge really wanted. But it's equally clear watching the late 1990/early 1991 episodes that there Brooke's role is reversed - there it's Brooke who is the one Ridge prefers, although she is unavailable, and Taylor is the rebound.

That being said, I don't necessarily think Ridge kept preferring Brooke over Taylor as he grew closer to Taylor. I just personally don't think Taylor had a lot of chemistry with anybody (with the possible exception of Storm). 

10 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I think Caroline was Ridge's true love and Brooke got him by default.

I think Ridge went for Taylor initially because she wasn't like Brooke nor Caroline. And she was someone new that didn't have the baggage of Caroline...plus Brooke was with Eric by the time he was able emotionally to date.

Regarding Macy, what was everyone's favorite love interest of hers outside of Thorne?  I liked her with Grant best...and I think anything given to Macy after that was an insult to her character.

I am watching early 1991 right now and to me it is obvious that Ridge is attracted to Taylor but more emotionally involved with Brooke, although he has given up on her because she's marrying his dad (kind of like he tried to give up Caroline after she married Thorne and dated Brooke instead). Another thing that is obvious is how Brooke is clearly more in love with Ridge than with Eric, and that that marriage was doomed before it began (Brooke dreaming about marrying Ridge on her wedding day to Eric). 

I agree that after Thorne, Grant was Macy's best pairing. He was very good with her and cared very deeply about her happiness.

I think Macy as a character was very sensitive to OOC writing and it showed in the storylines the months before both her deaths. Because she was usually so decent and sweet, she didn't have a lot of leeway, so anytime she broke that pattern it made you go "whoa..." and it didn't always ring true. Usually it was her interactions with Brooke that pulled her out of character because Macy was shown to truly hate Brooke and it wasn't really in her nature to be hateful, bitter or vindictive (she usually ended up on friendly or at least civil terms with all her rivals - even becoming best friends with Karen). Also, she was more aggressive with Brooke than I'd say was believable for Macy (it was more in character for Macy to turn that destructiveness inward). But it went both ways - Brooke also showed her absolute worst side in her interactions with Macy to the point where it was almost OOC (I never really knew Brooke to be quite as gleefully sadistic with anyone else as she was with Macy - like when she sent her a drink, or when she casually suggested that Macy's mother was dead just to see Macy's reaction). 

4 hours ago, Sasha66 said:

Who had the better chemistry to u

I'd say RM's Ridge had better chemistry with Brooke than Taylor. 

But to be honest, I haven't really liked any of Taylor's pairings. I find it really hard to connect with that character emotionally.

As for who was Ridge's true love, I'd say Caroline hands down. 

6 hours ago, Sasha66 said:

I wonder if the writers always meant to have ridge and Brooke as endgame or it was Tridge before Hunter left 

I am not sure. I think either pairing could have been endgame. But Brooke/Ridge makes for better narrative symmetry because it would make Caroline prescient on her dying day. 

2 hours ago, sheilaforever said:

B&B was amazing back then. 1995 had some clunkers like Rick/CJ and the rather lull Fall but spring/summer was MUST SEE TV. People waited years for Sheilas comeuppance and the show delivered: Sheilas suicide (no 1) was the ultimate climax

I have to say, I barely even remember anything about the last few months of 1995. I just remember, like you say, the absolute awesomeness of the spring and summer, and the feeling that everything just kind of wrapped up at Thorne and Macy's beach wedding. I even remember thinking at that point that it almost felt like the show was ending and those scenes were like an epilogue. Everyone in the cast was there, it was a joyous wedding that everyone approved of (how often has that happened?), it seemed like the principal couples were all paired up in a way that could be the end game (Eric and Stephanie were pretty friendly, Ridge had just made his decision to stay married to Brooke, Thorne and Macy finally got their happy ending after years of misery), the Forresters and Spectras were getting along okay (except for the kids), and the major psychos were safely behind bars. The A, B, and C storylines had all been resolved during the summer, and it took a while to get new frontburner storylines going.

1 hour ago, AbcNbc247 said:

According to Wikipedia, Brad became EP in 1996, but had been head writer since 1993. Even though, by watching the episodes, it seems like there was a shift in writing styles in 1992. 

That's interesting! I have been wondering about when we'll see a shift in writing style. I'm only at early 1991 right now, so I'm not there yet. I wonder who has the most influence over the general "feel" of the show - the head writer or the executive producer. Going by what I remember, I seem to recall one clear "shift" by 1996/1997 and another one around 2003.

1 hour ago, Sasha66 said:

I know it was dragged out and pretty much took over the show, but I’ll say the baby Beth story, I feel the issue with that one was more so the pacing. I think bold REALLY started to go in [!@#$%^&*] when Patrick M stepped down as story consultant after 2019

Yeah, you're probably right. At least there was a beginning, a middle and an end (although the story really struggled to transition from "middle" to "end" and went into a holding pattern while everybody and their mother discussed whether or not to tell the big secret). 

4 hours ago, skebujebu said:

I started watching in 1998 so all I’ve seen from 1995 is afterwards and boy what a year it seemed it was! Ivana/Anthony story and Sheila’s shananigans Very exciting in deed!

Indeed - two dramatic confrontations at gun point in the same summer! 

The final scenes with Anthony and Macy were chilling, the way that everything played out like a romantic date on the surface level, but underneath it was a deadly cat and mouse game where both of them were secretly plotting to destroy the other. There were obvious hints of Shakespeare's Othello as well (with a tape recorder playing the role of the handkerchief). 

6 hours ago, Sasha66 said:

What did u all think about the year 95

I remember it as one of my favorite years. There was a lot of pretty dramatic stuff going on - Taylor's return from the dead, Anthony going crazy, Sheila going crazy... 

Just curious - when would you say was the last time the show had an actual storyline? I mean a proper one with some kind of working narrative structure and a clear sense of forward motion. (as opposed to just random things happening with no purpose or goal) 

I can't even remember. 

1 hour ago, divinemotion said:

Bold is a masterclass in greek mythology. 

Do you have any examples? I agree it sometimes has the general feel of Greek mythology but I haven't been able to pinpoint that many specific myths, other than my impression that Eric/Stephanie are Zeus and Hera, and a bit more far-fetched comparison between Caroline and Helen of Troy, which would make Ridge Paris and Thorne Menelaos. I also see Stephanie as a bit of a Cassandra because she is usually right about how things will turn out but nobody believes her.

1 hour ago, Ponds said:

I'm sorry, but that face just screams TRUMP for me.  

I try not to think about it because I really do like her as an actress and her character is (was) iconic. 

Thank you so much for the new uploads! This is so exciting!

2 hours ago, brynandmaddie1998 said:

Oh absolutely! I see them very differently now as a 40+ year old woman re-watching with years of life experience behind me than the 12 year old girl I was when I first started when the show came on the air and had no life experience in ANY area, hahaha! As a mom, I can definitely sympathize with Stephanie and her love for her children, her desperation to make her marriage work. I loathe Eric and his disregard for his wife just so he can swoon over Beth any chance he gets. I am irritated by Ridge for thinking that a mere 3 months for Brooke to get untangled from her mess of a marriage to his father is "too long to wait", and for thinking he can play god with other people's lives. You can't force someone to love another! Caroline made her own choices and rewatching the episode where Ridge begged her to not marry Thorne and she STILL said she wanted to, has made me realize that all her belly aching in the episodes to come were her just regretting her decision - not that her decision was ever taken from her. I used to think the timeline of when she could've received that fateful letter would've made a difference but in watching the show, she would've had an extra day to consider. Not once did she say "I have to marry Thorne because people are counting on me". She said she loved Thorne and wanted to marry him - period. I could go on & on

Agreed! I think it makes a huge difference watching this show as a mother, as opposed to watching as a little girl. 

And it becomes clear how complex most characters and situations were. 

3 hours ago, sheilaforever said:

Maybe the show licensed the library / YouTube page to a service provider and therefore there is a lot less connection to B&B than we think? Or nobody at B&B does have the actual airdate list because nobody did track CBS back then? Or they are just lazy and thrilled to have ironed out everything with licensing to go through with broadcasting on YT? It could be either. LOL

1 hour ago, divinemotion said:

This youtube profile is disturbing. How a professional profile can be like that is beyond me. They upload strange unfinished episodes... tons of them... they upload the classic ones cropped, looking off and without proper airdates. I don't like that. It takes away from experience. Also the quality in some videos is laughable. It's stupid, because we know they have near HD quality. Episodes have been re-broadcasted... like hundreds of times... in the last couple of year there have been 2 channels repeating old episodes... we have seen from Cala Classics and RTL, that they have them in pristine quality. 

Also from some reason they deleted a season, 2009-1010, which was long ago uploaded on the channel is somewhat OK quality... and right now they have been Premiering these episodes again, but with OVER THE TOP low quality, near unwatchable. Yes, I repeat, they are premiering these episodes, uploading even low quality trailers.

Are the people connected with this youtube psychologically disturbed?

 

It is just odd. If this account is really the official one connected to the show, it's strange that they don't make an effort to make it more "professional".

And  I can understand that maybe the actual airdates may be hard to sort out 34 years later, but why fake it? If they don't know, at least be honest about it and name the episodes by number instead of by air date. Simply making up an air date doesn't make sense on any level. It is just completely unhelpful and confusing for any fan looking for a particular episode. And it gives the impression that the uploaders just don't care. I mean, getting a date wrong here and there is one thing. Being consistently off by 2-3 weeks is another.

But, again, I'm still glad they're doing it and hope they will keep at it. And I'm kind of hoping that if the early seasons make their way back into TPTB's consciousness, they might be inspired and rediscover what made the show great to begin with. Characterization, storytelling, long-term planning, a variety of plots and characters shown every episode, and so on.

EDIT: I just read and got a laugh out of the disclaimer in the info section:
"This program is presented as originally created. It may contain outdated cultural depictions."
I think we all understand without being warned that a show from the 80s depicts the culture of the 80s.
However, that warning label might be warranted in connection with the current episodes.

38 minutes ago, rsclassicfanforever said:

Yes videoland is still airing.  I hadnt uploaded cause i had a operation on my theeth 2 weeks ago and yesterday for a second time.

 

but i will go on uploading as soon as i can!

I hope everything went well with your operations!

And thank you so much!  I am very excited that there will be more episodes eventually - my favorite part of the show is just beginning!

4 minutes ago, sheilaforever said:

Airdates are indeed completely off. Seasons start March 23 every year, though…

 

at least they used to: sometime around 2013 B&B switched to the fall season schedule of CBS. Yawn!

Okay, then it's still Season 1! But I still don't get why they put the airdates in there if they have no idea. If they go on to Season 2 in a separate playlist (hopefully they will go on!) it will be harder to locate the correct episode because the airdate will be wrong and the playlist number will have to be added by whatever the number of episodes in the previous playlist is. They could just make it easier for everyone if they went by episode numbers instead of made up dates.

Somehow I feel it's the same thing happening that happens on screen when the writers forget the show's history. The people currently working at B&B either don't have access to information about the history of the show (even basic stuff like air dates), or they do and just don't care.

I'm still glad they're posting the episodes at all, though!

Has anybody else noticed that the airdates on the official Youtube playlist are completely off? They are clearly just making them up.

For example, episode 185 was the Christmas episode and they have it listed as December 7 (which obviously can't have been the intended air date).

And I believe episode 188 was the last one of 1987, and still they seem to keep going in the Season 1 playlist even though Season 2 should probably start with the episode they call December 11 (episode 189).

If they don't know the air dates, why don't they just name the episodes by episode numbers so they can be easily identified?

Does anyone know if Videoland is still airing episodes after 1350?

On 11/18/2021 at 5:11 AM, Sasha66 said:

I just wanted to say I rly enjoy your takes, you have a lotta knowledge 

Thanks! I've been a fan for a long time and I have a pretty good idea of what went on for the first 15 years of the show. After about 2003, the show started becoming less interesting to me and I haven't been paying as close attention.