Chris 2

5 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

@kalbir Thanks for sharing those ads. I find it funny that CBS still used the intended Season 9 logo in their promos when then show had reverted back to the S6-S8 logo allegedly following viewer backlash.  

The CBS promo department was occasionally misaligned with the programming dept in those days. I remember during the first Sharon Gless season of “Cagney & Lacey,” the “brought to you by” bumpers were still using the theme song from the Meg Foster episodes, a completely different tune.

Margaret Ladd as Emma is the MVP of the entire series, IMHO. Emma is the only character in the Channing family who can talk back to Angela, who has a major soft spot for her younger daughter.

23 hours ago, JAS0N47 said:

I have some extra time this week, so look for some ratings posts this week!

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS: WEEKS OF 9/15/80-9/19/80 & 9/22/80-9/26/80:

The Nielsen book has the CBS time slots listed as this for the week of 2/4/80:

8-9 Captain Kangaroo

9-10 (Local)

10-1030 Jeffersons

1030-11 Celebrity Whew

11-1130 Price Is Right 1

1130-12 Price Is Right 2

12-1230 (Local)

1230-1 Search for Tomorrow

1-2 Young and the Restless

2-3 As the World Turns
3-4 Guiding Light

4-430 One Day at a Time

Yes, that’s the schedule the Boston and NY affiliates followed. The cool table posted earlier is off by an hour for some of the affiliates.

I know that Dallas loved the status quo and that’s why JR and Sue Ellen’s first divorce didn’t take. But I loved seeing her stand up to him and his threats in order to protect her child (John Ross was much better off with her than at Southfork, where he would have been raised by his grandmother).

I wish Sue Ellen hadn’t gone back to him. And realistically, I don’t see how she could have after all the threats he directed at her when he wanted to get John Ross away from her. I would have rather had her find happiness with someone else.

I always thought they should have gotten Gregory Harrison to join as a Bobby substitute - whether as Jack or someone else. He is a similar type as Patrick Duffy and would have looked good with Victoria Principal. He was finishing up his run on Trapper John MD as the dream season began.

5 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

There is no way Bobby would've been friends with someone like Matt. Matt gave me the creeps.

I always hated Mark. He was insufferable. All he did was stalk Pam. When he returned during the dream season the new writers toned him down for the most part.

Agreed 100%. Dallas couldn’t stand for any of the women to be single, so Pam hopped into bed with Mark about 30 seconds after Bobby died. And Mark was happy to be with Pam even though he knew that he would always be second fiddle to Bobby.

There was no reason to resurrect Mark. All he did was take up space which could have been better filled with a new love interest for Pam later on.

I think the challenge with the Ewing cousins is that cousin relationships are never as charged as sibling relationships. And neither Jack nor Jamie were particularly well cast. Jenilee Harrison simply wasn’t a great actress. And Dack Rambo had this coldness to his performances and didn’t have chemistry with anyone.

If they needed more family members, they would have been better off giving Clayton a couple of more children. They never utilized him properly - he was a total cipher, who pretty much gave up his entire life to move to Southfork to devote himself to Ellie. Where were his friends or other family members (beyond Dusty and crazy Jessica) and business dealings?

When Victoria left, Dallas as we knew it - the Ewings vs the Barnes - was over. They needed a new setup. Instead, they just tried to keep going with a Pamela-sized hole in the show. And then you had the adventures of Ray, Jenna, and Charlie sucking the life out of the show whenever those character appeared, which was far too often.

If you’re an actor and you know your lines cold and your scene partner doesn’t, I can see how that would get old fast.

So, this is heresy, but I never got all the accolades about Beverlee McKinsey. Her performances are fun, but she has that same over the top quality as other soap performers like Robin Strasser, Jess Walton, and Susan Lucci (thought I’ll admit she’s better than Lucci). Disclaimer: I’ve seen plenty of her Guiding Light work but not as much of her Another World work. And I thought she was miscast in her brief role on General Hospital.

In the revival, there was a scene at JR’s funeral with Sue Ellen, Mandy, and Cally talking and agreeing how charming and charismatic he was. I think he was supposed to be one of those people who, when they focus on you, make you feel like you’re the only person in the room. Isn’t Bill Clinton supposed to be like that? It’s an attractive quality to some. And then there were other women on the show who saw right through it: Pamela, Donna, Valene, even Afton eventually.

6 hours ago, j swift said:

In retrospect, it was a sign of the times that cis male writers would create a fantasy in which one of the privileges of wealth is that every woman swoons to be with a rich guy.  Even if that guy is out of shape with daddy issues and wears a hairpiece with odd microbangs. 

LOL. And lives with his mother!

I understand that Daniel Hugh Kelly signed a new contract with the show in January 1981, when his original contract was up. His new contract included an “out” to do a primetime show, and he took advantage of that in the fall of 81, when he left to do “Chicago Story”. The producers left the role open in case Kelly’s new show quickly failed and he wanted to return. It did, but he didn’t.

Once Bobby and Pam reunited in Swan Song, Jenna had outlived her usefulness. Priscilla Presley has her finest moment as Jenna in the scene at Lucy’s wedding where she lets Bobby go (“I really would understand if things weren’t the same.”) The whole situation is soap opera at its best:

• Pam is willing to sacrifice her happiness for Jenna’s sake (she tells Bobby that he is obligated to marry Jenna after her release from prison).
• Jenna is willing to sacrifice her happiness for Bobby’s sake.
• Bobby sacrifices his life for Pam.

There was no reason for Jenna to hang around an additional three seasons after this. She had served her purpose. The Presley version of Jenna simply wasn’t built to be a character in her own right; she was merely a plot device to keep Pam and Bobby apart.

The season when Patrick Duffy returned had the smallest YOY rating drop (3%) since before Duffy left. And then Victoria Principal left the bottom really dropped out of the ratings.

The dream season producers blew it. The ratings were free falling in the second half of that season. It was only the strength of the ratings in the early part of that season that kept it in the top 10 overall. Most of the Dallas audience was not interested in emeralds, foreign intrigue, and the adoption of special needs children. So CBS and Lorimar panicked and brought Duffy back. They got one more season out of a setup that was already tiring before Duffy left.

What a shame. Had they successfully reinvented the show after Bobby died, they could have revitalized the show for years to come.

They also had an opportunity to reinvent the show when Pam disappeared. I would have done a time jump, with Bobby remarried and the new Mrs Ewing trying to figure out why no one wanted to talk about wife #1. And the show might have benefitted with an older John Ross and Christopher as well.

Ha I agree. Victoria may also be an introvert, which also makes fan events less attractive. My guess is that she’s happy on her ranch/farm with her animals (she’s been divorced from Harry Glassman for years).

3 hours ago, SoapDope said:

When Dallas started in 1978, Victoria was stunning with her long hair. Later on she got that weird shag haircut and other bad hairstyles and dye jobs when she did the commercials for Jhirmack. I think she may have had some plastic surgery in the early 80's. She looked odd around the time of J.R. & Sue Ellen's remarriage in 1982. 

I was watching the remastered episodes on FreeVee and I agree she was stunning during that first year. Her look was very simple and that worked because she was a natural beauty. Then in the middle of the first year she got the shag and started wearing heavier makeup. There’s speculation that she got some work done during the dream season because she missed an episode (during the Colombian emeralds storyline) and after she came back, she never looked the same.

Very well put. My guess is that Victoria is like most people: she does better work when she’s passionate about it. And she probably didn’t like the nervous breakdown material, or the times when Pam merely existed to support Bobby’s storyline (Pam feels neglected by workaholic Bobby and turns to Alex Ward, for example), rather than as character in her own right.

JR says at the end of episode 1, “It seems I’ve underestimated the new Mrs. Ewing. I surely won’t make that mistake again.” That, to me, is the series distilled to its very essence: JR vs Pam (with Bobby caught in the middle). I wanted to remind the writers of later episodes to go back and watch that scene!

Agreed - it’s frustrating to see the Pam character like that. Plus, Victoria Principal was still fairly green as an actress. Her acting style changed around the time Pam divorced Bobby and she become a more polished actor.

I wish we could have seen Pam’s spunkier characterization from the early days of the show after Principal matured as a performer. We certainly saw signs of it in later years, but not consistently enough. I cringe a a bit when I think about when she went to work at Ewing Oil and felt overwhelmed and needed Mark to help her. Or when she tried to get Jenna to let her adopt her baby. Ugh. Early Pam was confident and wouldn’t have behaved that way.

I think Falcon Crest considered most/all cast members disposable, male or female. Only Wyman and Lorenzo Lamas lasted from beginning to end.

I know Knots gets grief for losing Constance McCashin and Julie Harris, but they also dropped male cast members like John Pleshette, James Houghton, and Doug Sheehan.

Dallas seems worse by comparison - Charlene Tilton, Barbara Bel Geddes, and Susan Howard all went before any significant male cast members were let go.

I liked the idea of Christopher being JR’s. But Dallas loved the status quo, and Christopher being JR’s would have made it difficult to return to the status quo. Same thing with Kristin having JR’s baby. How would they have gotten JR and Sue Ellen remarried if Kristin was hanging around with a baby? Even Lucas’ messy parentage was resolved cleanly by Bobby basically becoming a deadbeat dad.

Had they been able to persuade Principal to stay, they could have killed off Jenna and done a custody storyline between Bobby/Pam and Ray. Again, though: the producers wouldn’t have like that because it would have permanently altered Ray’s relationship with the family.

I agree about Bobby becoming less likable upon his return. Part of it was that Duffy demanded that Bobby be stronger when he was revived. Part of it too was the way he treated Pam and Jenna. When you think about it, it was awful that he proposed to Pam before he officially broke his engagement with Jenna. He didn’t need to pair his announcement of his engagement to Pam with his breakup. He could have waited a bit before he started publicly dating Pam.

The producers blundered by not properly building the show around Pam as the new protagonist after Bobby died. There was so much story potential there. They didn’t need to bring back Mark (but the love of the status quo and the familiar struck again). And they quickly returned to the status quo when the ratings really fell in the second half of the dream season. They - and Hagman - felt that Dallas was a “man’s show”. And the women were disposable. Too bad, because the second half of the series could have been much stronger without that sexist approach.

On 6/6/2023 at 2:01 PM, GLATWT88 said:

Can you elaborate on the Victoria becoming a laughing stock.

Also, it seems like Victoria wanted nothing to do with the show post her departure. Did something else happen behind the scenes? What's her relationship like with the cast? 

These days, Victoria says that she told Lorimar when she signed her two-year contract extension in 1985 that she wouldn’t sign another. But her colleagues say (and some trades reported at the time) that she was negotiating for another extension in 1987.

Patrick Duffy got a huge salary increase to return in 1986. Victoria, by some accounts, wanted salary parity with Duffy to sign another contract (she deserved it by the way). She also wanted to sign just a one-year deal. Lorimar didn’t want to pay her the same salary as Duffy and wanted a two year commitment. TV Guide at the time reported that when negotiations broke down with Principal, they had to quickly rewrite scripts to take out the Pam character. So they were expecting her to sign, and that’s why Pam’s exit is so clumsy.

Lorimar also initially announced that they had dropped Principal. She was furious about that and got her lawyers involved and forced the studio to retract this. She also said they took her parking space away during her final weeks there as retaliation. Later on, she refused to allow the studio to use her image on the show or in clips (during Sue Ellen’s movie storyline, for example).

Larry Hagman had dinner with her a year after she left to convince her to return but she declined. She wouldn’t even come back for a handful of episodes to resolve Pam’s storyline. That’s why Pam was recast for one episode.

She as willing to return for the series finale if it wrapped up the story of Pam, but wasn’t interested in the fantasy storyline. She turned down the JR Returns movie. I’m not sure if she was asked to do War of the Ewings. Accounts differ whether she was even asked to do the TNT revival, but when the show started teasing Pam’s return, she released a statement saying that she was not going to do a “desperate reappearance” and that as far as she was concerned, Pam died in her car crash. 

The studio produced a in-studio mini reunion with Duffy, Gray, Charlene Tilton and Steve Kanaly for the 40th anniversary DVDs. Principal didn’t appear on camera but did call in. She seemed to enjoy reminiscing and had some laughs with Duffy. She also posts reminiscences on instagram. She says she’s proud of the show. I just don’t think she wanted to be part of its long decline.

Afton was pretty effective as a Greek chorus even though the actress herself didn’t have a lot of range.

The second half of the series should have focused on JR’s redemption. Not that he would have become some nice guy pushover, but he should have followed the same arc as Jock. That would have been better than JR becoming a loser, played for laughs.

Robert Foxworth has that cold, remote persona in all the roles I’ve seen him in. Clu Gulager, who played the role in the pilot, was worse, but that’s not saying much. A crusader like Chase needs an actor who can infuse the role with some warmth. That’s not Foxworth’s strength.

Agreed on Billy Moses, too - he was kind of a stiff. Cole was even worse when he got married to Melissa and started acting like he was 50 years old.

The season 2 finale was great. For once, a major family member was guilty! Unlike the cop-out resolution of Who Shot JR. And having the camera zoom away from the manor house (I think they just reversed the clip from the opening credits) was cool.

Yep, and then you could have retained some of the elements of the coma season, because what were they talking to Bobby about while he was comatose?

I agree about the show being Pam vs JR. That was the Barnes/Ewing feud distilled to its essence.

Maybe Pam should have been written out like Dynasty’s Claudia. She’s pissed at the family and has a nervous breakdown, lighting candles in her room and naming them after all the people she can’t stand. Then one tips over and lights the room ablaze. Southfork is on fire - again - and Pamela is burned and bandaged up. She flees Dallas when the bandages come off.