DanMan869

1 hour ago, will81 said:

I wanna say Lezlie Dalton but I could be wrong. Nope I was wrong, it was Victoria Thompson. she played Janice Frame

Will, you’re awesome—thank you! BTW, she unfortunately made a terrible Lorie Brooks. I hope she was much better as Janice Frame on AW!

Forgive me for sincerely asking this without scouring through the 702 pages of this forum, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me the name of the actress who filled in as Lorie Brooks around March 1978 (I believe Jaime-Lyn Bauer was on maternity leave at the time). I could've sworn I read somewhere that the actress who filled in had formerly been part of the cast of "Another World," but I can't recall her name and don't recognize her.

58 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Yikes at the audio/video syncing issues but it's nice to see an episode where Nella is actually working as a nurse, further proof that she was NOT a candy striper, lol.

Too bad there are almost no episodes on YT of Nella in the nursing program with Meg.

That scene with the nurse who refuses to care for Hank because he is the partner of an AIDS patient is a reminder of where society was where HIV and AIDS were concerned--the prejudice. There also seems to be a hint of homophobia in the nurse's stance as well. Also a reminder, perhaps that while we judge the characterization of Hank and his relationships from able millennium perspective, the reality of what it took to get this story onto daytime television, on perhaps the most conservative network at the time is a whole other matter.

Gosh, I'm sorry that a week or two ago I posted a mis-rememberance of what Nella Franklin's job was back in 1988-89. I never insisted that she was a candy striper and personally never asked for proof. While I respect your wealth of knowledge about ATWT, I'm not sure a "LOL" about my saying she was a candy striper was necessary.

10 hours ago, DanMan869 said:

DD, I stand corrected. I hadn't heard about her 2019 Las Vegas troubles--and, looking on the web a few minutes ago, they sound pretty sad. I also deleted my Facebook (and, earlier than that, my "FB friendship" with Michael Swan) in Spring 2019, so... somehow I missed reading about her troubles. I'm kind of surprised the current soap websites (I regularly peruse Daytime Confidential) never posted anything about it (as they have about other former soap stars' legal troubles) unless I missed that, too. (YIKES! LOL)

 

Unless Finn or Michael came forward and said they're no longer together, I don't think most people would have any idea whether or not they'd broken up.

DramatistDreamer, just for the heck of it, I just googled "Michael Swan Finn Carter" and this turned up first on the list. It's from Finn Carter's Instagram account back in December 23, 2015. She commented on the post  "Photo by Michael Swan 12. 10. 15" Who really knows what kind of relationship they had (just hot sex--and don't talk politics?!) or for how long, but I feel like this supports what I posted about seeing on Swan's FB a few years ago. https://www.instagram.com/p/_p76MLimn9/?hl=en

21 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

I have never heard anything about them dating. In fact, I had heard that she was daring a doctor before all the problems began for her. I know she has been divorced for a few years and has two grown daughters, who hopefully she has reconnected with by now. I hope she is doing well and getting her life sorted for the better. 

The Vegas incident did indeed make news on we discussed it on this board. 

 

I know that Swan and Reed dates and Reed seems pretty liberal, bordering on downright progressive, but they dates a long time ago, so it is possible that one or both of them have since changed in their political views. I cannot even imagine Finn, of the Carter family, cousin to Jimmy Carter being romantically involved with anyone with Swan's current political views. Swan has some pretty bad stuff on his IG (I recently checked) and if you see Finn's Twitter, she is without doubt a Democrat, in the tradition of the Carter family.

I'm sorry but I am going to need some solid proof that they were actually together as a couple, lol. I mean it.

Just to be clear--I'm not at all standing firm that Swan and Carter were definitely together. Though I could have sworn that at the time that I was FB "friends" with Swan that it was mentioned on his page that he was involved with Carter, but I could have misunderstood. Maybe they were together and ignored their political differences until one or both couldn't anymore? Stranger couple combinations have happened in the world that eventually imploded. Maybe someone else can chime in with more definitive info one way or another?

21 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

That, I don't believe, especially considering Finn's recent struggles, she seemed completely alone.

 

 

DD, I stand corrected. I hadn't heard about her 2019 Las Vegas troubles--and, looking on the web a few minutes ago, they sound pretty sad. I also deleted my Facebook (and, earlier than that, my "FB friendship" with Michael Swan) in Spring 2019, so... somehow I missed reading about her troubles. I'm kind of surprised the current soap websites (I regularly peruse Daytime Confidential) never posted anything about it (as they have about other former soap stars' legal troubles) unless I missed that, too. (YIKES! LOL)

Unless Finn or Michael came forward and said they're no longer together, I don't think most people would have any idea whether or not they'd broken up.

1 hour ago, Mitch said:

Its too bad that Horgan didn't go on to head write GL in 95 instead of McTrash.  GL was more freewheeling fun and kooky then its sister show but still had the focus on the families,  and with Nola back I think Horgan could have written her as fun instead of Iva in weird clothes we got.  I also wonder why Swan didn't go to other soaps..he also could have been on GL (without the dumb accent) and paired with Brown or I wonder if he and Zimmer would have chemistry.?

Hell, a slug would've written a better show for GL than McTrash--but Horgan would've been a good idea! 

Swan actually DID go to other soaps. He was on B&B for several years starting in the late '90s as Adam Alexander, Sally Spectra Sr.'s ex and Macy's father. Plus, right around the time of John Conboy's tenure on GL, Swan briefly appeared as businessman Brad Greene. For reasons I don't know, he was quickly recast with his ATWT co-star, Mark Pinter. Swan currently lives in Los Angeles, so (if he was interested) both Y&R and B&B could cast him (as could DOOL or GH). He's still very well-built, so that works in his favor as appearing quite virile for a 73-year old actor. Also related to his ATWT, I believe he's been in a relationship with former co-star Finn Carter ("Sierra Esteban Montgomery") for many years now.

On a "personal" level, if this is your interest/concern, he's quite the vocal political conservative. At one time, I was his Facebook friend (what a surprise he accepted that!), but eventually unfriended him because the occasional conservative rhetoric was a turn off. Once again, it proves that sometimes you don't really want to meet your "idols" on a personal level. (And, admittedly, I simply lusted after 1980s/90s Swan--I didn't necessarily idolize him!)

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

 

 

Me, I was that someone.

 

I also happened to think that the big chaotic group gatherings had become a feature pre-Marland, if you look at events like Tom and Margo's zany wedding in the park (where Tom and Margo literally "herded" friends and family, in various states of dress/undress) to the park and even events like costume balls and dances from as far back as 1981, you can see that that wild unpredictability in some of those sequences. By the way, I enjoyed those big events. People seemed more relaxed, those scenes came off as less "staged", even though we know some of the movements of characters, in and out of scenes had to be choreographed, at least a little bit.

We know that the actors enjoyed those scenes, but yeah, like I said upthread, it's easier for the bean counters in penny-pinching P&G to see where they might have deemed were 'redundancies' and possibly proceeded to make "cuts" to the cast.

I could see some exec, looking at Kevin and Jay, thinking, perhaps the show didn't need both characters. I don't know for sure but, from what I have read Steven Weber decided to leave the show? Is it possible that, the show might have decided they wanted to keep Kevin (as opposed to Jay, who no longer had family, as was pointed out, and was no longer Frannie's bf) yet Weber elected to leave so they decided to write him out? It's pretty obvious that Doug Cummings was always meant to be a short-term character, on the canvas for a relatively brief storyline arc (brief in soap terms, where a story can spin for years).

 

I wonder if Steven Weber would be open to talking about it. Nah, probably not, lol.

DD, thank you for pointing out that you commented about the "herds of characters/actors" on ATWT. You're right about big events not being exclusive to Marland. As the '70s progressed and shows were fighting to stay relevant and exciting, the big, fancy parties/balls seemed to become more frequent. I believe on one of the Locher Room episodes, one actor (can't remember who or which show) mentioned that being part of those big event stories meant super-long days and were usually pretty boring. I'm sure they were also fun in that you were dressed up (whether in fancy clothes or a costume) and could be silly or whatever, but... I'm sure they were also tiresome in that everyone "there" had to stay to be in the background.

Honestly, I'm not sure how Jay Connors survived past the revelation about his mother being a murderer because that kind of thing usually is a perfect opportunity for characters to "leave town," but... he obviously was kept around even though Frannie was off canvas at Yale, Kirk was involved with Marcy, etc. I would've understood the budget eliminating Jay and bringing on Frannie's college boyfriend following her back to Oakdale. I can also see where Kevin was a character that was needed for a specific story and maybe wasn't going to work (or be needed for) long term. Maybe Steven Weber made the decision for Marland and TPTB by saying he wanted to leave?

5 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

I think Horgan stayed until the end of 1985. By 1986 she was gone.

I take this with a grain of salt, but IMDB indicates that Horgan stayed on as a writer on ATWT through March 1987. *shrugs*

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Tucker was gone by 1984, I think and according to the actor who played him, Eddie Earl Hatch, his departure was not handled very well, he left with hard feelings for the show's execs, in particular.

Once Steve and Betsy became a super couple, Tucker's role as confidant and business partner to Steve already seemed diminished by degrees, and the wedding sealed his (Tucker's) status, imo. Tucker left town and Roy Franklin entered, sometime in '85 and Roy and Heather dated and eventually got engaged, etc.

It seems that around '86, there was at least an attempt to build a family around Roy, whereas there was never any attempt to give Tucker family, from what it looked like.

Thanks for the clarification on Eddie Earl Hatch. Probably not the first (nor the last) time, but it seemed that if you were not a leading actor on a soap (aka the lead in a featured storyline), TPTB tended to treat you as dispensable.

I remember Roy Franklin's family being introduced. Wasn't there a story point about how his mother and father didn't like Heather because of her singing career? (Or am I confusing Heather with Jessica Griffin's law career...? LOL) I was shocked and amused recently when I ran across a clip on YT where Victoria Rowell was playing Roy's sister, Nella! I remember Tiffani Caesar in the role when I believe Nella was being portrayed as a smart-mouthed teen, Kasi Lemmons when Nella started to mature a bit and became a candy striper at Memorial Hospital...but I completely forgot Vicky Rowell's turn as the final Nella! And clearly the character left town/the show without much fanfare because...POOF! Nella who?

2 hours ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

and the daughter of frances heflin, who played erika kane’s mother, mona, on all my children.

Thank you, WW! I forgot about the AMC connection!

1 hour ago, Mitch said:

Interesting..I always thought that Marland created Doug Cummings and started the Kim has a stalker story.  If this was a combo of Marland and Horgan they were a dream team as this is the ATWT I loved..more free wheeling and full of energy, some camp, tied to the core families...the "Snyder Incest years,' as I call them were so drab and boring...someone was having a mercy killing, or being raped and afraid of getting HIV, or there was a teen alky, or getting Alzheimers or of course, being stabbed by a letter opener..(which actually is fun..) I think my appreciation of Marland really stems from these years and not the bulk of his drab last years.

 

Speaking of drab...Iva wasnt the only one who lost their spark...I forgot Shannon was fun before the "Aye LASSIE" days.

Yeah, apparently Doug and Marsha were already there with who knows what exact intentions when Marland took over. I believe Horgan stayed on at ATWT on the writing staff for years, so maybe she contributed to that free wheeling, energetic, somewhat campy, and core family feeling you liked about ATWT?

ATWT became somewhat labyrinthian and heavy under Marland as his characters took root and his stories had lots of Sturm und Drang, but I kind of appreciate that in retrospect. Look at the last year of ATWT and their "6-week Storylines"! Now that was a real nightmare of storytelling!

Oh--and yes, I loved Shannon/Margaret Reed when she first arrived, but... the whole Duncan/Scotland/Castle thing just got to be eye-rolling. (Michael Swan was always sexy as hell, but... the Scottish accent after while? Ugh.)

16 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

The dialogue doesn't sound very Marlandish. I wish there was more of the Doug Cummings saga. The stuff with Doug is giving me Henry Slezar/EON vibes. I didn't realize John already knew Lucy's real name. Years before DM did her origin story. It's nice to see Jay still around. Also like seeing Jay and Heather playing  supporting roles. In the Cummings story. Marie was a hoot. The show felt very vibrant and edgy.  And not stuffy like it became later. 

I could be wrong as there were no credits at the end of the episode, but I think this (with the Halloween party) was written under headwriter Susie Bedsow Horgan. Though we know Doug Marland was first credited as headwriter sometime in November 1985, he *might* have been there beforehand (October), tweaking scripts and storyline points though SBH was still being credited as HW. I'd venture to say that the Marie Kovac mystery was possible tied deeper into the Doug Cummings storyline than originally intended.

A few observations about this episode:

1. Many viewers/critics like to put the "herding" of actors at the feet of Marland, but... if this WAS SBH's writing, she sure did a good Marland-esque crowd. As someone else pointed out, the Halloween party was a bit frenetic (music, tens of actors, and then add costumes), but...watching it just felt very ATWT to me. Still, you can appreciate why P&G might have said, "trim this cast!"
2. I had forgotten that Jay Connors was still on the canvas by this point. My memory would've said he left around the same time that Kirk McColl and Marcy Thompson did. Let's face it. His long-term story was based around his mother, Dorothy Connors, having had an affair with and killing Whit McColl...and that Kirk was also his half-brother via Dorothy's affair with Whit. With Whit long dead, Dorothy dead (did that pesky brain tumor kill her?), Kirk gone within weeks, and the fact that Jay was not a McColl, what was he still doing on the canvas? Still, every character (such as Kevin) should have friends--and better established other characters than someone appearing out of nowhere. Same thing with Heather Dalton. I guess by this point she was no longer with Tucker? Was he already off the canvas? It was like they had people still on contract and needed to do something with them, so... connect them with others around their character's age!
3. Mady Kaplan was the niece of classic Hollywood-era actor Van Heflin, so that may explain why she was a fairly decent actor in this episode. What I find interesting is that Kaplan was not "pretty"--she had an interesting face, but it wasn't part of the typical soap castings beginning in those days ("pretty, pretty, pretty--who cares whether or not they can act?!"). Nice that TPTB must've cast her on talent rather than primarily looks. I wonder whether or not SBH had planned to write off/kill off Marie from the beginning? She certainly could've caused problems for Kevin and Frannie (had they stayed together) and had tension with Jay and Heather for longer than the time she was on the show. And speaking of a surprise, what was up with Julianne Moore's acting choices during that scene with Eileen Fulton? At one point, she was shrieking and over the top and then she finally reigned things in. It was just a surprise to see.
4. Lucinda, of course, was SO Lucinda...but the last several years, I've gotten to know Elizabeth Hubbard's work as Dr. Althea Davis on "The Doctors" and...wow. You see her as Lucinda and appreciate her talent. Sometimes actors leave one show and go to another (or later get a job on another show) and they're basically playing that same range, the same character. Having watched ATWT over the years, obviously I knew what Lucinda was like with EH, but... man, she was a million miles away from Althea! Just a "hmm!" moment I'm sharing. I wonder whether La Hubbard just decided when she took the role of Lucinda that she, a millionaire, was going to be over the top (in a good way)? Rarely, if ever, was Althea over the top, IMO. Dramatic, yes. OTT, no.
5. Someone else pointed out that it was later revealed that Iva Snyder was behind those disturbing phone calls that Lucinda was receiving (OTT, anyone? LOL) basically threatening to reveal Lily's parentage. I'll bet anything that SBH still hadn't decided who exactly was on the other end of that phone line and MARLAND chose to create Iva (and those numerous Snyders), make her Lily's mother...and put her on the other end of those mysterious, threatening phone calls.

Though I did like this episode and it still felt comfortable/familiar, I also liked ATWT during the Marland era--when everything seemed to eventually revolve around the Snyders, the Snyder farm, and Lily-Lily-Lily.

54 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

That's such a great picture of Finn! 

These ads are great y'all are some true collectors. Looking at these ads, you get a better sense if what were the storylines going on a that time. YouTube (as lovely as it can be for watching and at the very least, better than nothing) does not give a true representation of the full slate if storylines that existed at that time. Back then, if a character appeared in an ad, you knew they had actual, significant storyline. Nowadays, they have ads where you'll see a character appear and you know darn well that character has no discernible storyline.

Are these times listed as Western time? On the East Coast, when B&B started airing, it always came on at 1:30p.m., ATWT at 2 p.m.

 

Ahhh... the good ol' days of TV Guide having these full-page soap ads! My family never got TVG (we used what came in the Sunday newspaper), but my best friend's family did and I used to love to read TVG when I would be over at her house.

Good question about the location of the times listed because they are definitely not East Coast. I grew up in northern New Jersey and watched soaps on WCBS out of New York City. My first recollection of the soaps schedule was Y&R at 12:30PM, ATWT at 1:30PM, Capitol at 2:30PM, and then GL at 3:00PM. B&B's debut prompted the shift with it following Y&R and ATWT bookended with GL. Honestly, it was probably better to put the Bell soaps together and the P&G soaps together in terms of flow at that point after so many other shows were gone. Perfect example was when Capitol was still on (which I liked up until the last 6-9 months or so) and you'd go from ATWT lit like a typical P&G show to 30 minutes of EP John Conboy's signature moody dark lighting before you continued on to GL which was lit like a nighttime football game. Sometimes it made/makes sense to pair/group by look and feel.

22 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

Overall, this was a pretty good interview. That being said, I want to know when the "Go Fund Me" for Frank Telfer's upgraded internet and equipment is going to start. This is like his third(?) interview with The Locher Room and, every single time, his 'portion' of it is basically useless because his internet connection is too slow and/or his equipment fails. Frank is a LOVELY, funny man who has LOTS of things to share about his time working on TD, but... I've gotten to the point where I cringe when I see he's being included on a TD group interview because I know what's going to (or not going to) happen. I would love a one-on-one interview with Frank by Alan Locher, but it would be great if they could meet together, six feet apart, all precautions taken, and it can be filmed and uploaded. Doing these web interviews with dear Frank are, sadly, a big fail. *sigh*

Robert Mandan did another week on TD as the focus character at the end of September 1963. Sometime that same year (before? after the first TD appearance? the second appearances?) he played “Nathan Axelrod” on “The Edge Of Night.” He was cast as heroine Jo’s love interest, “Sam Reynolds” on “Search For Tomorrow” in 1966 and stayed until his character’s death (poor Jo!) in 1970.

Just finished watching the first episode of the Doctors—which really seemed to be entitled “House Of Hope” and NOT “TD.” The set was entirely different (and I dare say bigger and more expensive-looking, but was probably a drab gray- and green-painted set being that it was taped/filmed in B&W). The “leading man” was Dr. William Scott and was (IMO) a basis for the later character of Dr. Nick Bellini (although we know Gerry Gordon played his role much bigger than Jock Gaynor played his). Dr. Jerry Chandler almost reminded me of a Dr. Matt Powers-type: friendly and supportive. The hospital chaplain, Reverend Sam Shafer, seemed to also show shades of Matt Powers: wise, helpful, the “elder statesman” (even though he wasn’t that old). Psychiatrist Dr. Elizabeth Hayes was wallpaper in this first episode. They could have had a floor director read her lines and it wouldn’t have mattered. It doesn’t seem she lasted on the show much past the summer of 1963. It appears she stopped acting on TV for the most part after TD, so maybe it was her decision to leave?

The day’s stories were kind of forced. I can see how this might have worked in primetime on a show where a well-known actor(s) recurred as the doctors, but...TD (or HOH as they called it) on daytime needed a lot more drama besides anonymous patients.

Had I been watching NBC on Monday, April 1, 1963, for this, I can’t say I would’ve been back on Tuesday. I have to admit, it is tough to look at what we saw today (S1, E1) as a soap opera. It tried to be dramatic, but I wouldn’t say it started with a traditional soap base. It was an anthology of stories (the first day? apparently being encapsulated) run daily through the course of each week. It wasn’t until sometime later in 1963 or early ‘64 that someone clearly felt it wasn’t working/sustainable and they decided to plan the shift to a traditional, ongoing soap-style format. So who knows what “cliffhanger” might have been on the first day of the soap-structured TD? It wouldn’t necessarily have been shocking as it WAS still 1964, but it must’ve been enough to keep people interested due to the changes.

15 hours ago, Mitch said:

Well..lets just say most of Marland's "good" male creations were, staid, white bread,and humorless  and Hank did not differ in that area. He was oddly interested in about EVERYONE's problems... from drama queen Babs, to drab and depressing Iva, to the teenagers (and yes, he thought HONESTY was the most important part of ANY relationship.) But he was a token gay so he was like all the token black characters who came before him...as if the show said..."See, we have ONE" and didn't bother to expand on that.

 

I know it was the height of the crises but for once I would have liked a gay character who wasn't HIV positive or had a lover dying.  A character who had a least an implied sex life and who would say, "I practice safe sex and get tested regularly."  I think that having a dying partner off screen was an easy way to make him sexless and "safe." 

 

But then AMC who had a more conventional "hunk" guy play a gay guy, and who got much more publicity out of it then ATWT, also had a boring generic guy so it was baby steps. And really, Luke and whatishface bored the HELL out of me and gay viewers were acting like they were HOT and so so interesting. I think the only actual "sexual" gay character was GL's Olivia, but we all knew she was hot to trot and was bi and was a woman so I can see the suits thinking THAT was okay as she fullfilled their fantasies.

Yes, yes, and yes, Mitch! All three of these hit the bullseye, IMO.

Oh--and as for Jake Silberman (who played Noah Mayer, Luke's boyfriend), I don't think he was a very interesting actor. The writing was basically there to bring this relationship life and potential interest, but Silberman was just so dull to watch. Van Hansis ticked two boxes for me in his portrayal of Luke Snyder: 1) he was a good actor, and 2) he is gay. Silberman ticked neither of those boxes and the on-screen relationship suffered because of it. Think of Carly and Jack, the show's central couple the last 10+ years: some of their trials and tribulations were really good, some were not so good, but what carried things through the entire time is that both Maura West and Michael Park made them INTERESTING because they were/are good actors. I think the fan boys out there WANTED Luke and Noah to be interesting, so they insisted they were. The storylines (some of which for Luke and Noah were admittedly quite lacking) were only able to take things so far. Together, Hansis and Silberman were not hot and they were not interesting.

57 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Was Hank boring because of the acting, writing,  or all of the above?

 

 

I think it was really a problem with the writing. Brian Starcher never necessarily set the show on fire, but... he wasn't given all that much. Hank was a talk-to--a supporting player--from beginning to end. Add to that his frequent mentioning of the ailing-but-invisible Charles and there wasn't much else available to work with. I just think, "don't tell us, show us!" I think had Marland been daring and actually brought Charles onto the canvas it might have opened things up for Hank to grow as a character and be able to take more than a supporting role. Then again, Marland may have been that daring, but P&G said "hell no, we're not bringing a character who's supposedly dying of AIDS to Oakdale!" I think doing so could have been a great "teaching" moment and given a name (soap?) actor the chance to play a sympathetic role for 3-6 months, indirectly "teach" the citizens of Oakdale a few things, and then pass away. I think it would've been something great for the show, for America, and, well, for the character of Hank. Woulda-coulda-shoulda.

13 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Agreed on Gregg Marx! Did you catch his reunion with HBS and Scott Bryce?

YES! Watching that episode of "The Locher Room" online when I was like, "HS! Gregg was/is GAY?!" Watching it, I was like, "why isn't this guy on Y&R? in 2020?"

20 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Yes, but it was done differently in those years than more recent variants. That - and the GL fan fiction of those years (which was mainly centered on Fletcher and Holly but had a lot of other characters) would release episodes 2-3 times a week, and try to write in a script format, used character photos, etc. It helped add a more authentic experience. Sadly all that was wiped long ago.

 

(by the way when I said secretly, I meant Andy was still closeted to his family back in Oakdale, rather than an affair type storyline)

Yeah, what you're describing is what I figured it was. Such a shame it's gone now. And even though Andy was closeted in that fan fic, I'm sure it made for great drama!

4 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

That is what I loved about Holden too.  There was Bill Shanks and Greg Marx who had hairy chests too. I think Brian Bloom did too.

Yes! I forgot about Shanks, Marx, and Bloom all having hairy chests. I don't think the viewers were given as many opportunities to see them as Hensley's though!

BTW, Gregg Marx is a lovely, talented, and sexy man and, little did many of us know, gay IRL. It's too bad he's not on one of the LA soaps today--gay or straight character.

8 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Speaking of Hank, many, many years ago, I'd say mid '90s, there used to be a websoap of ATWT which had living in New York, secretly lovers with Andy.

 

(I think Jeff had also divorced Annie and had had a fling with Hank before Hank got involved with Andy...but it's been an eternity so I may be wrong)

 

The show never would have gone there, of course, but it was an interesting concept. 

HA! DRW, I assume by "websoap" you more meant written fan fiction? Imagine those storylines where not only was reliable good guy Andy Dixon secretly in a relationship with Hank Eliot, but originally jerky Dr. Jeff Ward was swinging both ways?

I think the beauty of fan fiction--GOOD fan fiction--is that it often goes places that the show SHOULD go, but is too afraid.

On 1/23/2021 at 9:19 AM, Soapsuds said:

Robert Tyler chest is perfection here. The scene with Kirk is so homoerotic. Kirk looks like he wants a taste .  Jon in his undies....yummy....The scenes are at the end at the 40 minute mark.

 

I should have posted this earlier (but since I've been posting here today...) I probably saw this back in 1988 (possibly live or likely VCR taped) and either swallowed hard or totally reveled in the moment... and then promptly forgot about it. The thing I always found attractive about Jon Hensley back in the day was that besides having a decent body, he had a hairy chest. For all the himbo photos posted in magazines like SOD, most of the guys then were either smooth or shaved (the latter unbeknownst to me/the public, of course). You had these guys with nice physiques and smooth chests... and then along comes Hensley with his furry pecs! Yum!

What is flooring me about this clip with Holden and Lily at the Snyder pond is two things:

1) Hensley "goods" are clearly visible beneath the exterior of his tighty-whiteys. Men's briefs are not like men's speedos. Speedos are intended to streamline the body for more speed in the pool; briefs are just intended to "carry the load." HOW DID NO ONE ON SET (producers, actor, etc.) not say, “um, should we do this?” Or maybe they were like, “hehehe… let’s do this!” In 2021, I’m glad it made it to air! LOL

2) Holden just out of the pond after a swim wearing only his white briefs. His body is speckled with water, his hair is a little wet, but… his white briefs are clearly dry and “not” clearly showing anything as wet underwear material would after being fully immersed in water. Sure, they weren’t going to go THAT far by allowing everything Hensley had to truly be seen, but… LOL who gets out of a body of water and the one piece of clothing they were wearing is bone dry? Oopsy, ATWT! LOL

1 hour ago, Soapsuds said:

I'm surprised you were able to have a bf back in 1988. To be considered being gay or looked at being one was taboo. Even back in 1980 the fag/faggot word was used when your considered to be gay. So yeah coming out was not an option in 1988.

 

I too was excited at Hank being gay on my favorite soap yet as @Khan and I got back and forth on men's beauty....I thought couldn't they have gotten a hunkier Hank? I found  Starcher rather unattractive. I pretty much knew Hank was gay by the way Starched portrayed him. It's too bad he was written out and his presence in Oakdale wasn't flushed out more.

Well, actually, I had an older boyfriend during my senior year of high school in 1987. I think many gay guys had boyfriends back then and years and years before, too. I think the difference was not living an open life, "out and proud." Your straight friends often knew, your family sometimes knew, and (of course) your gay friends knew. To be honest, what might have been considered more "weird" back then was that you were into soap operas. It wasn't exactly a draw (when seeking long-term companionship) as it was often seen as having an interest in something that your mother or grandmother liked. All that said, coming out back in the 80s was/could be easier depending on where you lived in the US. I grew up in the New York metropolitan area. It was the suburbs, but still a bit more cosmopolitan than other small towns in the US.

I will admit--I thought Starcher was handsome, but not hunky. I don't think that in 1987-88 soaps were writing and casting for a gay character with the idea of "is (the actor) hot/hunky?" An attractive actor, sure, but not "we want everyone hot and bothered by this guy" like they might have with roles like Holden or the Oakdale himbos that followed. Let's face it: Marland still had Hank's partner off-screen (that's non-threatening!) and (IIRC--it's been 35 years) I think Charles (was that his name??) was either sick and dying or had died. This was no acceptance of someone being gay. Still, it was reflective of the times, for better or worse. Unless they were going to bring in his partner (if written as still alive) or a new love interest, they weren't going to do much with the character of Hank Elliot other than make him a supporting talk-to. I have to clarify--it wasn't a HUGE surprise to me back then that Hank Elliot was gay. Of course, as a gay man, I knew the character was supposed to be gay (even if Mrs. Average America may not have), but "the big SQUEE!" was that ATWT actually went there and said it out loud and fairly matter of factly.

I do wish Hank Elliot had been kept on the show longer--especially considering there were characters in Oakdale who LIKED Hank (and Paul absolutely did)--but I suspect that, IN THOSE TIMES, they were stuck in a corner with Hank and what they could and couldn't dramatize in the late 80s without experiencing backlash from the viewers (or vocal non-viewers who just got their panties in a twist over any gay characters on TV). It wasn't until almost 20 years later that they had a gay character (Luke Snyder) who developed a romance with another man (Noah) that was just as dramatic and tumultuous as pretty much any other romance on the show. Perhaps if ATWT were still on the air today in 2021, we might see Luke either in a committed relationship with or perhaps even married to another man. Maybe there would be more gay characters besides Luke (and his "beloved") on the canvas in 2021. Imagine if there was a "gay Lisa" on ATWT in 2021--someone generally likable, but with their fingers in everything and stirring up trouble? Getting married and divorced multiple times? I guess I'm just saying that Hank was a reflection of the 80s. Luke was more of a reflection of the '00s. Perhaps ATWT could have had a gay character for the '20s reflecting the times, too.

I have a good memory of the days of Hank Eliot. I had just started dating a guy and wasn't yet aware that he was also an big ATWT fan, but we were watching daytime TV together one day and had ATWT on when the big reveal that, "Hank Eliot is GAY!" played out and we both screamed out loud with glee. As a gay guy in his late teens at the time, when coming out of the closet was still an incredibly scary prospect, to see a TV character being gay revealed so matter-of-factly was like, "AAAAAAAAH!" (Yay!) Now, whenever I think of Hank Eliot's story, besides Brian Starcher (the handsome actor who played the role in such an understated way), I also think of the glee when two young gay guys watched a daytime first. Makes me smile.

Here's the thing about some actors running "roughshod" over chats. Yes, those actors could be more considerate and aware, but... let's really put the "blame" where it belongs: Alan Locher. It's WONDERFUL that he began producing and moderating these chats, however, he has made some odd guests combinations. That being said, actors such as Elizabeth Hubbard or Kim Zimmer do not belong in a group chat. It's clear they have plenty to share, so why would you constrain them to sharing the stage for an hour with 3-4 other actors with whom they may or may not have even worked? Personally, I feel that Jada Rowland should have been given her own hour to discuss not only "The Doctors," but also her long stint on "The Secret Storm"...which, of course, would relate back to TD because of her pairing on that show with David O'Brien. Alan Locher should have realized this--especially after having hosted, what--9 months of these chats?

Is it any surprise that Elizabeth Hubbard has plenty to say? Or Kim Zimmer?

Nobody has mentioned the fact that when you have, say, 5 people participating in a chat and ONE of them has a bad internet connection, the whole chat quickly devolves into a mess. I've turned off a few of these chats because they just devolve into stop-start-stop conversations.

I put less "blame" on the actors than I do on Alan Locher. Not only does he need to choose better combinations or solo appearances, but he should also (after all this time) be better planning to ensure these actors have strong, reliable internet and camera connections. That's not intended to be a dig at some of these actors who may be financially challenged in 2020/21, but just that if it's determined that they don't have a strong enough connection and equipment, where can they relocate to do so? Is it worth Locher spending $50 to buy them a web cam? Perhaps the actor with a weak connection is better suited to a 2-actor chat? The production side of this is being given more of a pass than I feel it should.

My two cents...

I'm glad you're enjoying it, Darlin! Looking forward to seeing you there--and here!

I enjoy coming here to see what folks are sharing and discussing and check in daily, but I spend a lot more time now discussing things about TD over on Facebook in "THE DOCTORS Soap Opera (1963-82)" group. Though it's a closed group, we are a welcoming bunch and will let in pretty much anyone who asks because of interest in the show! People are sharing links to video uploads of the same-day aired episodes, old magazine articles, and plenty of intelligent and humorous conversation! If you crave regular discussion about the show, find us there!