DanMan869

Thanks for posting the article about Florence Williams! Seeing those pictures of her at 43 years old and knowing her appearances on "The Doctors" were 15-16 years later, I'd imagine FW didn't look quite as dowdy as Edna Hamilton when she was off-camera in 1968-69.

Robb, I'd like to think that it was all planned that way, but I bet Rick Edelstein picked a (city) name that would alliteratively go along with the game Mike was playing. HOWEVER, I think it's altogether possible that, behind the scenes, that was probably noticed as the first time the show was placed somewhere. Whenever it was finally being "regularly" referenced, I would hope that somehow, whichever writing team started using it that way, referenced back to that episode. Does anyone know what year the show began referencing being set in "Madison"?

Just want to say I'm enjoying the show on RetroTV. I can't tell you how much I love Carolee Campbell. By the time I really got into the show Jada Rowland had just taken over. Of course, I adore her, but Campbell is a hoot.

This is a question for MontyB and everyone: Not having seen much of Jada Rowland as Carolee, did she play the role/was it written with the same wry sense of humor or was she a totally different (but acceptable) Carolee Aldrich? Carolee Campbell WAS a real hoot as Miss Simpson!

April 1969 TV Picture Life

How great is this?! PLUS, the neat soap connections are that Marsha Clark eventually became a soap actress herself, with her big break coming by playing presumed dead patriarch Bill Bauer's illegitimate daughter, Hillary Kincaid Bauer, R.N., on Guiding Light! ALSO, her soap mother, Simone, was played by none other than The Doctors' own Laryssa Lauret!

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll take a stab at answering these:

1. Yes, but in rather vague terms if I recall. If you weren't really paying attention, you'd think they were just longtime pals. There was a recent reference within the last month or so, IIRC, where the implication was made that Mike and Liz (and their families) had known one another "since they were kids." Not having seen Liz's actual introduction to town along with her parents, I can't say for sure whether or not that was part of how the Wilsons were introduced to the town of (not-yet-)Madison. Perhaps they meant that Liz and Mike had come a long way since they first met in 1966?

2. If I am recalling correctly, Laryssa Lauret's Karen Werner left town for Germany in January 1969. Now we are "currently" in mid-July 1969. From a few articles I've read, I think LL returns some time in 1970--about a year or so after she left.

3. I think there was mention made of Steve Aldrich's parents and how he was raised, but no mention has been made of their possible reaction to his marrying Karen. I think he or Karen talked briefly about contacting them, but nothing came of it. There is also no mention of his brother at this time. In fact, I think Steve sort of implied he was an only child, but soaps always had a way of changing things like that when different writers took over or the story seemed to suit the addition of family. Was Mona Aldrich Croft eventually introduced as a divorcee, a widow, or...?

I also had to smirk a bit with James Shannon because it seemed that a few times during his blustery moments, he's nearly gone up on his lines. It happens to most in the cast once in a while, but usually they gracefully recover and it seems almost like naturally mis-speaking. Mr. Shannon should have tried harder to get the lines right and focused less on the over-the-top bluster. I hope his performance improves because being eye candy doesn't entertain for very long!

I might have asked (or someone probably mentioned), but I'm assuming that TD was done "live-to-tape" where they tape and time everything out to the "30" minute mark--and you don't stop tape and do any retakes unless there was a technical problem OR one of the actors horribly screwed up. Video tape was expensive back in the 60s (and into the 70s), so waste was frowned upon. I get this knowledge from Y&R, which was produced live-to-tape for much of the '70s (possibly during the entire time it was 30 minutes). I'm sure that put a lot of pressure on the actors to "get it right the first time--or save it if you can," or else you were likely fired and the role recast. I'm sure this was why NY theater actors often got cast in soaps in the 50s, 60s and 70s--their trained ability to "keep going until the curtain comes down."

OH! I almost forgot one!

4) is it just me or is James Shannon ("Paul Bennet") overacting a bit? He's been acting on level 11 pretty much since appearing on the show and it only gets *cringingly worse. I liken his work so far to "bad soap opera acting." (Admittedly not Charity Rahmer-on-DOOL-bad...but, bad.)

Some good episodes since the beginning of July! I feel so bad for Edna Hamilton. She was sort of ignored about needing to see Althea and then when she finally did, Althea didn't show nary a glimmer of recognition! Then Nick tells her that she should go back to Greenville. Awww...

A few things I noticed:

1) Nick has never stopped calling his mother-in-law "Mrs. Hamilton"! Not "Mom" or "Mother" or even Edna! After all this drama with Althea and then Edna's sadness and resigning herself to going home, it would've been a perfect time for the character to say, "oh, Nick--please...after all we've been through...you needn't keep calling me 'Mrs. Hamilton'! Call me ______."

2) Dr. Geller started to come across as...interested in Edna Hamilton! Until Nick sent her home, I thought maybe we were going to see something slowly develop with him and Althea's mother. The show did kind of need that older female guidance figure. Dr. Geller with his academically smarts and Edna with her common sense. She may have seemed a bit delicate, but Edna has always been written as quite logical when she stops being delicate! Not sure how much longer Florence Williams is utilized as Althea's mother, but I've enjoyed her work.

3) LOVED that Dr. Geller suggested Carolee befriend Althea--and that Althea wound up welcoming it! The whole discussion of "why are the doctors on a first name basis but the rest of the staff are Mr. and Miss." (Apparently they forgot about MRS. Bennett!) I wonder if this was HW Rick Edelstein's way of contemporizing the hospital environment a bit going forward? I wouldn't mind if they still referred to each other as Dr, Miss or Mr--such as when giving patients or visitors instruction ("If you'll follow Miss Simpson, she'll take you to the physical therapy room..." or "Dr. Bellini, I have your messages..." But when they interact one-on-one or in less formal situations, calling each other by first names seems logical--no matter their position. (Well, maybe Matt should always be Dr. Powers to the general staff!)

I'm not exactly sure but it won't be long because Edelstein also left in 1969. Carl, I had another email today from Maureen (Mooney) Pellegrini aka Gossiping Candy Striper #1/Temp Liz. I sent along the article you asked me to, and made sure to mention that my friend Carl had saved it all that time and wanted her to have it. I also mentioned that you have the Brim commercial she did with Liz Hubbard and that you are searching for it so that she can see it again along with the rest of us. Here's what she said: "Monika you are too much! This is so much fun. When I get a moment I will send you some things. All the best to you and Carl. I really appreciate all the wonderful clips.Fondly,Maureen"

I wonder if the new writers will be coming by Fall 1969? The only story that seems to be capable of long-term is Althea's psychological blockage. Either that will wrap up by Fall, too, or will carry through to the end of the year? We know Elizabeth Hubbard is gone by the end of '69, but I don't know whether she wraps up the psychological story or if Virginia Vestoff gets to come in and have the big reunion/separation with Nick? The story with Nancy Bennett and Mike Powers is finally moving somewhere and could be wrapped in another 6 weeks, if necessary. Was it the Pollocks who took over as head writers after Rita and Rick? In some ways, things seemed to have slowed story wise and I'm ready for some new energy to be infused into the already good show.

Regarding Maureen Mooney Pellegrini, that is GREAT! Her reaction is what I wish we could get from some of the their surviving cast members who find out we're watching and loving. Obviously, no one living from the cast has been rude, but I like knowing someone is happy that we're into the show again 46 years later!

That is absolutely wonderful, Monika!

I don't know, because other cast lists I read had her listed as still part of the cast in 1970, and some other sources had her staying until 1971 (Julia Duffy took over as the slightly aged Penny in 1973). I'll try to find out for sure and let you know if I hear anything.

As for Pam Toll, she married at least twice more and is today the mother of four grown children (and is probably a grandmother by now). She has two daughters from her second marriage and twin sons from her third. One of her sons, Daniel DeVault, is very active in theatre in Tennessee.

I hope she stayed because I think this version of Penny still has plenty of story left to play. I wonder if they continued to force her to wear the same wig the entire time she was on the show? It's like Penny's hair never grows! Considering that Laryssa Lauret allegedly wore the same short, dark wig for each of her times on the show, I can't imagine the producers were too concerned with keeping Penny's "blonde hair" in contemporary cuts or styles. I'm sure by the time Julia ("Newhart") Duffy took over the slightly SORAS'd role in '73, she wore her own hair--assumedly long, straight, and some shade of blonde?

Amy, have you or has anyone been in touch with Pam Toll about the show re-airing? Would love to hear her feelings about the time on the show! I did read an article through this site about her life in Tennessee and her actor son, Daniel. Very interesting!

I wish the living cast (of the stories we've been watching from 1967-1969--and beyond) knew how much we all love the show in these reruns. I was warmed by Sally Gracie's recent, touching scenes with Nick where Martha gave us some of her backstory where she had to watch her husband slowly die/not improve and how, for once, Nick clearly felt like someone--Martha, if all people--finally understood how he felt. I love the tempestuous relationship between Nick and Martha, but I wish we could see Nick appreciating and respecting her more often so we'd know for certain his bark with Martha wasn't anywhere near as bad as HIS* bite! Martha Allen ROCKED!

Am I correct in assuming that Penny Davis' trip to California to stay with father, Dave Davis, will wind up being a one-way jaunt (for now)? Are we in the last days of Jami Fields' time on the show or is this just a plot point/device? Also, do we know when LH left the show and when VV took over?

Dan, Pam Toll married her first husband in December 1967 and was still wed to him at this point (June 1969), so my first guess would be the show temped for her due to illness. But we have no way of knowing until Pam appears again how long Maureen Mooney temped for her.

Thanks, ABW, for the clarification about Pam's first marriage date. I must admit, I wasn't very impressed with MM as Liz Wilson, but it was just the one (extended) scene. I guess it supports my feeling that Pamela Toll really was quite a good actress and had quite the handle on her role. I think that Liz has matured somewhat since the episodes first began airing on Retro TV and there's a more adult way about Liz since the kidnapping. Admittedly, they don't really have much for Liz to do right now except be a supporting character, but she did that well, too. I'll be sad when she's written out in early 1970 as we know she and the character will never return to Hope Memorial or (the eventually-named) Madison ever again.

Do we know why Pamela Toll wasn't on the show? Was it illness or her honeymoon? (Didn't she marry her first husband in 1969?) since Maureen Mooney has recently appeared as a nurse's aide gossiping about Mike and Nancy, I'm kind of thinking it must have been a last-minute substitution. Sometimes it stinks to remember that this all happened 40+ years ago and we may never get answers that we might get about soaps today.

Re the background people. I'm sure this is a budget thing as when an actor speaks they have to be paid more. I'd imagine TD, like other soaps of the time were produced on a tiny budget to maximize profit.

So any way they could save money they would. I also read that once an actor had over 5 lines they became a dayplayer and from then had to paid at that higher rate,so the producers avoided giving them extra lines.

I wonder when Carolee went on contract? Did she start as an extra,then u/5, then dayplayer before graduating to contract status?

Also,I would think that the show had a certain budget for each week and to pay for something more grand eg Nick and Althea's wedding( which required a special set,costumes,extra actors etc) they would have to cut back in other weeks to balance the books.

Or did NBC or C/P throw a little extra there way for this?

Thanks, Paul--that's what I figured (budget) was the reason, but it was still frustrating to watch sometimes!

The black doctor is Simon Harris, I believe, and his arrival is imminent…his name appeared in the credit crawl on one of Friday's episodes.

I don't mind the background actors not having lines and I'm sure it was because of budgetary reasons -- lines meant they got paid more money. Each of them does a great job with their facial expressions. I love Nurse Wheeler's looks of disgust at times when Nick opens his mouth. I think this continues for a few more years. I remember seeing an article posted online called "The Silent Ones" and it profiled some of the background actors, including Dorothy Butts.

Robb, you're right that they all did great jobs with their facial expressions. And Nurse Wheeler has some looks that could've killed! LOL And thanks for sharing Dorothy Butts' (Nurse Grant) first name after I'd forgotten it! The other day, Joe the orderly also had a few lines when they were chasing Phillip Townsend around the hospital! That same episode, I was disappointed that it wasn't Nurse Wheeler, Nurse Grant, or even Nurse Ginny Martin that had all the lines that they gave to this heretofore unseen nurse dealing with the Phillip Townsend calamity. Budget, yes...but still too bad!

Also, I wasn't aware of Dr. Simon Grant's impending arrival, but was thinking of Dr. Hank Iverson (thanks, AmyBrickWallace!)

I actually did some research, and Jami Fields was indeed 13 (nearly 14) at this time (born 7/19/1955).

Thanks for doing the research on that, ABW! I stand corrected. Good for her for being a decent young actress at 12-13-14. Funny to think that "Penny" is now older than any of the main cast was then!

Yeah, I really ought to just CALL Retro and tell them, " I want my Retro TV!" LOL The more they hear that, the more likely they are to consider continuing to air it.

Brenda was probably at her best working with Jeanne Cooper and Julianna McCarthy--one brought out her b!tchy side and the other brought out her vulnerable side. If BD were to return to Y&R today (which would never happen, of course), she wouldn't have anyone with whom to shine. (I'll say Jess Walton now has the same problem, but I've already talked a little too long about Y&R here on the TD thread!)

The show was sometimes a little repetitive, but I chalk that up to the era; there were no second airings, no online recaps, no spoilers, no "next time on The Doctors..." and the soap press of the time wasn't as topical as today's. Penny can be grating at times, but I don't blame Jami Fields for that as much as the writing. I am probably wrong, but wasn't Fields probably 15-16 years old and playing a 12-13 year old? They couldn't write her too maturely so Penny sometimes comes off like a simpleton to me.

I think one thing that bugs me, but might change as the show goes into the 70s is that the background characters (nurses, orderlies, etc.) are often mute. I think it's Susan Walker (I forget her nurse character's name?) gets all the exposure in the credit crawl, but she rarely says more than 5 words an episode. Nurse Grant (_____ Butts) actually had a few lines in the episode when they were buzzing at the nurse's station about Phillip Townsend escaping the mental hospital, but she rarely speaks. Carolee often talks to them and they clearly had to just stare back at her or raise their eyebrows or whatever. If they're worthy of getting in the credits, they should've at least be able to have brief conversations with the cast beyond nodding, eye-rolling, eyebrow-raising, and occasionally saying yes or no. Oh well, an opportunity lost.

Oh--and I occasionally wonder why purpose CC Courtney's Jody Lee served beyond saving Liz Liz from Phillip T. He kind of seems like comic relief in the Hee Haw, Green Acres vein. He should've been in med school when he arrived (still with the occasional homespun shtick) and a contemporary and new school friend of Mike Powers. Mopping floors and then (now seemingly) doing nothing but socializing with Carolee and Liz has left the character as kinda pointless. I think having "down home" character on the canvas was a good idea, but I think they shouldn't have made him so pointless. Do any of YOU really think Jody Lee would've finally gone to med school and become a doctor? I don't. Maybe things improved with additional doctors after Rita Lakin finally left the co-HW spot and The Pollacks(?) replaced her and Rick Edelstein? We know Dan Allison and the black doctor whose name I'm forgetting both come in around 1970, so... someone realized the doctors on The Doctors had gotten kind of slim!

Welcome. Love your gorgeous Brenda avatar.

Totally agree with you. I sometimes worry I'm taking the show for granted at this point, because little things annoy me, but it really is so good, and so consistent, the way soaps used to be.

Also agree about Liz. I see no Lucinda in her performances. It's a revelation.

Thanks! Glad someone recognized Brenda Dickson (it's from early 1974) in my avatar. She was really terrific on Y&R from 1973-1980 and then again from 1983-1986 or so...and then her performance kinda went off the rails...and that's what most people think of when you mention Brenda Dickson as "Jill Foster Abbott." A shame!

I think you said it perfectly--little things occasionally make me cringe or sigh (Liz Wilson was locked in that flimsy room in Phillip Townsend's house for WAY too long and I was watching it two episodes a day--imagine once a day for months?! LOL)--but I don't want to take it for granted and discover it goes away in a few months. I wish Retro would stream it with (new) ads so that more people could see it. I live in the Los Angeles metro area and have no idea whether or not I can access it on my cable system (I don't think so). Like you, I think it's so good and so like soaps used to be. It sounds snobbish, but 98% of these folks could really ACT and had the training and experience to back it up.

I see some of Althea in Lucinda, but I think it's mostly the "darlings" and her great ability to sound so natural. Plus, Liz was always good at connecting with her on screen children--from Penny Davis to Lily Walsh, you believed Liz's portrayal of the parent-child connection in her performance and it made her younger co-stars look even better for it and obviously learn from it. That said, I definitely don't feel as though I'm watching Hubbard portray the same character on TD as on ATWT. Definitely a revelation!

I've been reading here for quite a while as I've been watching reruns of "The Doctors" on Retro via the web for a while now. It has been SO refreshing to watch a well-written and crafted soap after watching some of my old favorites get canceled or spiral into stupidity (yes, Y&R, I'm talking about you!). I always enjoyed Liz Hubbard on ATWT, but after watching her work on these last two years of TD, I think she was freakin' genius! I could watch her read the directions for making a boxed cake mix! Anyway, the stories have had ups and downs (though mostly up), but things seem to be coming to a head in the Davis-Bellini household (I'm about 8-10 episodes behind and I think today I'll finally see Althea slap Penny in context!) and I'm a little sad because I suspect that we'll only have a few more months of La Hubbard before we watch Virginia Vestoff take over the role for a year or so.

Thanks to all for sharing all your knowledge, thoughts, pix and articles here. I was a CBS baby, but now I wish I'd changed the channel for TD once in a while! I hope we get more episodes for years to come--THIS is good soap and its sorely missed on today's TV landscape!

--Dan