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2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I think we get a glimpse of that in one of the other episodes available from around that point, but I do wonder how that would have gone with everything with Jackie and Justin. I imagine they would have forgiven, but...what a lot to forgive. 

(I assume it was not Marland's decision to kill off Jackie? If only they'd just recast)

 

Over the years I read that Marland planned to have Carrie murder Jackie in cold blood, but because he was ordered to end the story, he killed her off anyway in the plane crash. If true, even though it would've been 1 of Carrie's other personalities I don't see how they could've kept her long-term afterwards. Also if true, he was able to do it on ATWT with Royce and Neal. It remains so stupid that Jackie was killed off before Philip found out she and Justin were his biological parents 

12 minutes ago, j swift said:

I never know who wrote what, so this theory is based solely on conjecture, but I wonder if killing Jackie and sending Justin out of town as Phillip was SORASed into a leading man was to solidify his place as a Spaulding by not having to deal with the mess of his biological family?

Although the reveal of his parenthood played a key role in his relationship with Beth and Mindy, it was really about the secret rather than anything to do with his identity. 

Unlike Dinah who really changed once she found that Vanessa was her mother, Phillip remained an uptight preppy regardless of his origins.  For certain by the time John Bolger was cast, viewers would be forgiven for forgetting that Phillip was ever adopted.  And by the end, when Alan was an organ donation match, despite having no common DNA, it was no longer an issue for plot purposes.

Killing Jackie meant that future writers didn't need to deal with the constant issue of where she was during Phillip's wedding, divorces, the birth of his kids and his other trials and tribulations.  Elizabeth was off in Europe and she had wanted Jackie and Justin to raise Phillip, so her absence was logically explained; even though she was sorely missed.  But, how would they have dealt with Jackie, who spent years trying to be close to Phillip, not being a part of his adult life?  I would hazard to guess that the SORASing of Phillip made casting Jackie (and Hope) difficult because they were both women in their 30s just a few years before Phillip was aged into someone old enough to have a kid and get married.

One other note about recent discussions, regardless of the outcome of the Carrie story, I think it laid the character groundwork for Ross's attraction to Blake.  He liked a creative, eccentric woman who balanced his rather staid personality, and the audience who had watched him with Carrie got that part of his persona.

Marland killed off Jackie under Allen Potter and Gail Kobe had Pam Long write off Justin. Jackie and Justin should've stayed on the show so there would be no need to explain her absences. In daytime we've always suspended disbelief when it came to parents and kids. Maureen Garrett didn't look old enough to be any of the adult Blake's mother, and Jean Carol didn't look old enough to be Frank and Harley's mother. Had Hope not left and they aged Alan Michael with Carl Evans as they did in 87, we would've focused on character and story, not ages. I'm just saying the tptb wanted these characters gone and it had nothing to do with parent/kid age differences 

4 hours ago, danfling said:

Actor Charles Siebert, who played Dr. Wally Matthews (a minister) who dated Lisa, has passed away this week.   He was on the show in the early 1970s, and he was also on Search for Tomorrow and Another World.

He was also on Trapper John MD probably for the show's full run 

30 minutes ago, Patrick D said:

Just came across this article with many cast members reacting to Jerry’s passing:

https://soaphub.com/general-hospital/news-gh/guiding-light-and-one-life-to-live-vet-jerry-verdorn-dead-at-72/amp/

Thanks for sharing this! 

RIP Jerry . We're losing our legends left and right 

Reading the last few posts made me think of the great early 90's. Characters and relationships were well defined, they drove story, the show was an ensemble, there was no Josh and Reva, there was widespread acclaim and the ratings were up. Why did they change what worked? 

I would give anything for even 1 of her TGL episodes to surface. Anyone know what part of Leslie's story she was there for? 

1 hour ago, reallyhateskateonlost said:

Kathryn Hays has passed.

 

 

ATWT Vet Kathryn Hays Dead at 87 (yahoo.com)

NOOOO

Guiding Light, when Brent murdered Nadine. I didn't see it coming, was shocked and sad when it did. 

1 hour ago, Fevuh said:

That was the main problem with the storyline for me.  I kept saying at the time....everyone is OK with this?  It's a problem in general for B&B which is - just another problem they've always had.  These people are supposed to be world-famous - but then almost no one knows them.  Stephanie was lost and homeless for God sake, and that was back when B&B was GOOD.  It never made sense.  The fact that there's no paparazzi makes no sense.  Then they go to Australia or Monaco and they're popular and recognized THERE??  But with Maya, that was the whole issue for me.  Some resistance, continuing bad press, even Rick just taking a TINY bit of TIME and having some ISSUES with Maya, before really realizing that he LOVED her would have done it for me.  We got nothing.  It was terrible.

In regard to cult stories, I remember reading once that GL/Pam Long pitched the idea and they didn't go for it.  That was in the 80's....for some reason they said it was too controversial.  It would have been interesting for one of the 4 musketeers to have gotten wrapped up in something like that.  

In regard to Pam Long, I remember SOD ran an article questioning why plots are recycled from show to show, and writers interviewed said their ideas get shot down when they pitch something different. Long said the cult story would've been about people with problems and the people who prey on them and program them. She said she gave up the fight because telling the story would lead tbtp to make changes, making the story something different. I believe the article was in the late 80's and always wondered when, and who would've been involved in the story.

I'm beyond sad. I had the pleasure of watching her on both Guiding Light and As The World Turns. I also had the pleasure of meeting her in 1997. I worked at a mall in Paramus NJ. She and Julie Poll were signing copies of The Guiding Light 60th Anniversary coffee table book and she was so nice and friendly. I am wrecked right now. 

This hurts. RIP  

13 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

She did a short gig on Y&R in 2013:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/daytimeconfidential.com/.amp/2013/09/27/elizabeth-dennehy-drops-by-the-young-and-the-restless

Thanks! I don't think I've watched a full episode of Y&R since Dru fell off the cliff lol 

9 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Well as I said I am wary of misremembering the gossip but basically it was pretty abrupt and arbitrary in the sense of her working for several months before someone upstairs telling her it is not working and firing her despite the fact, as Vee said, she was doing a fine job in the role
Show-business is tough obviously but a lesser person might have been a little resentful and not wanting to revisit a bad memory.

https://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/11/nyregion/an-actress-learns-from-a-setback.html

I didn't know Dennehy thought Pam Long didn't like her. I always thought she was recast because Long wanted to redefine Blake after they turned her into Christina. Also, she was in Philip and Rick's age group and Chrissy was born about 5 yrs after Rick, so I thought they wanted to de-age her a bit. SOD said the show was taking Blake in a new direction. I swear Dennehy, in her exit interview with SOD, said she wouldn't do another soap. I don't remember context so I'm not sure if it was a knock against the show, daytime, or not a knock at all. I do remember when Larkin Malloy left as Kyle, he did say he would never do GL again because the writers kept keeping Kyle and Reva apart lol 

I liked Gatti. I thought her being rough made sense being a part of a traveling circus or carnival. Paige's Dinah bored me. I think they were going for the good girl with the bad boy (Alan Michael) and it just didn't work for me. I loved Wendy and Gina, but the show messed the character up by going psycho over Hart. They more than rose above the bad writing handed to them 

On 9/14/2021 at 3:14 PM, titan1978 said:

Thank you for clarifying that!  Did the original actress play her with as much sarcasm as Sherry did?  That trait was even present with Liz in later, less well written eras.

I don't remember her Blake as sarcastic. I think when they turned her into Christina they might've redeveloped her into who they wanted the daughter of Roger and Holly to be. When they announced her firing, they said it was to take Blake in a new direction so that's the Blake Stringfield played. I actually loved Dennehy as Blake and hated them firing her, but Stringfield intrigued me immediately, especially how she used her deep voice to her advantage, especially when being sarcastic, just like Mama Holly. 

2 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

The four Blakes (Cheryl Lynn Brown, Elizabeth Dennehy, Sherry Stringfield and Elizabeth Keifer) in a photo spread for the 20th anniversary issue of People in 1994:

I'm happily shocked seeing this pic, especially with little Christina! Thanks for posting it! 

20 hours ago, titan1978 said:

What about a character like Blake on GL?  I have read she was introduced by scab writers, and Pam Long came back and made her Holly and Roger’s child after the fact when the strike was over.  I would say that is a fundamental part of who Blake was.

 

When Blake was revealed to be Christina and they announced they were bringing Roger back, Long told SOD she created Blake on paper and wanted her to have a secret from her past, but the strike happened before she could figure out what she wanted it to be, and scab writers introduced her. After the strike when Christoper Bernau became too sick to work, they asked Zaslow back as an Alan recast, but he and Nancy Curlee pushed to bring Roger back. When they decided to bring him back, the decision was made to turn Blake into Christina 

4 hours ago, danfling said:

On the pictures of the actresses, I only recognize Rosemary Prinz (Penny #1 from As the World Turns) and Teal Ames (Sarah Lane Karr from The Edge of Night).

 

On the subject of Ian, I have questions which I shall ask.   But first, I will remind those here that he had a sister who was rather devilish.   She and Spencer (the butler for the Whitney family) fell in love.   These two roles were played extremely well by Mary Layne and Richard Borg.    I was actually more interested in them than I was Ian, Raven, and Schylar.

 

I do want to ask about Nora's "ratting out Gavin."    I remember that he did not like her, and that he had been walking outside the studio when she was murdered.   Was it Gavin who initially found the body?

 

I will add one more thing.    Nora's real name had been Roxanne Walker.

Gavin saw Nicole leaving the scene, and then he saw Nora's body.

These summaries give me life, especially The Guiding Light and The Edge Of Night. Thanks!!!!! 

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I think they said that Dee assumed John was Brad (was it Brad?) and as John had no idea that she did not know it was him, it was consensual. My question is who the hell wants to watch this type of story in the first place - I know it was a leadup to Who Shot John? and that had a lot of good dramatic moments, but it's just very  gross.

Lucinda and Meg and Dusty tended to be the people who called Lily out. I think part of the reason Lily seemed snotty was because Martha played the role in a bratty manner, with less of the layers that Marland's previous Lily types, like Genie Francis and Kristen Vigard, brought to their roles. 

I loved Lucinda, but I do think that she was often a distant and easily distracted mother figure to Lily when Lily was growing up. Yes, she had a beautiful home, a good education, and servants, which she probably should have not taken for granted as much, but she also had a mother who was wildly out of control, flinging herself into bitter corporate and personal rivalries and bedhopping with the wrong man time and time again. Lucinda was a mess, and no matter how much you love your child, that is going to have an effect. 

It's interesting what you mention about Andy. I feel like this was explored somewhat in his alcoholism story - we saw how much Kim's busy career and John being John meant he was lonelier and more prone to struggle - but I do think there was more emphasis on "tough love" for Andy than there was for Lily and more emphasis on the consequences of Andy's selfishness and insecurity - not just with nearly killing Lien, but also when his obsession with Julie helped refuel Courtney's eating disorder. I suppose it's because viewers expected to see certain behaviors as typical of young ingenues, but not young men, especially Marland-era ingenues, who were often coddled to no end. 

I will say that as tired I sometimes got of Lily turning up her nose at Lucinda, they did manage to show she loved her. I appreciated this more after seeing the nasty, mean-spirited way failing soaps like GH wrote Emily Quartermaine treating Alan and Monica, who would have been better off not even bothering to adopt her.

I was about 8 or 9 when Dee/John happened. Don't know if I'm remembering right, but I feel like there was a scene afterwards where Dee looked disheveled and David asked her if John forced her and she said yes. I was completely confused at the trial when she seemed to say he didn't. I didn't understand much except thinking John did something bad to her, he was going to be punished, but then she said he didn't do it. Till this day I still don't understand what happened. Does anyone know if a scene was played showing exactly what happened? 

18 hours ago, Broderick said:

That girl who played Barbara Ryan's sister Melinda Gray -- was her name Ariane Munker? -- was one of the cutest, feistiest young actresses on soaps at the time, and her storyline seemed packed with potential.  It was nuts that she was dumped.  She was the only lively participant in that Dee/Beau Spencer/Annie story in the very late 1970s.   

Wow, I never knew Barbara had a sister other than Frannie. I searched around because the name sounds familiar, I think Munker played the forgettable Christine Valere(?) during a very forgettable period on Guiding Light in the mid/late 80's I vaguely remember her husband(?) Paul Valere getting murdered, which launched a very forgettable mystery. 

2 hours ago, Mitch said:

I think NC (and I may be giving her too much credit but I don't think so) was being generous and in her southern way, not throwing JFP under the bus. I took it that she wished she *could* have written it that way...(but most likely was given the mandate to KILL KILL Mo) I do think that actually doing that would be problematic...as Mo would never leave her kid and friends and family to think she was dead. Roger would look more like a heal if he let Michelle think her mom was dead...(he could care less what Ed thinks) The other way would be that she was in a coma and spirited away by Roger..who say Roger came to the cabin after the Ed confrontation... and Roger in his Roger way, tries to make Mo see that Ed is no good for her and that he can take her and Michelle away from all of this...Mo says something like, "There is nothing I would like better to just disappear right now.." and then with more Roger badgering she then runs out, gets in her car and slides off the road. She is knocked out and Roger, feeling guilty and again in Roger's way, thinks he is honoring her wishes wisks her off somewhere...)

 

I know E & B had a plan for bringing Parker back with a woman who led a hard life  who got her heart and had plastic surgery to look like her..but I think that ranks up there with the clone.

I agree that having Maureen ask Roger to help her get away would have been too out of character. I do believe NC decided not to say certain things in this interview. An interview she gave after the show's cancelation was announced I read somewhere on this board. I remember her saying that killing Maureen was Jill's decision, and the writers had no say in it. She also says in Alan's interview that she was allowed to do what she wanted near the end, but in the past interview she said the interference burnt her out, Stephen didn't like the way tptb (sounded like a number of suits) treated her and it was a big reason why they left. The show became too uneven for there not to be interference, so i think she just didn't want to go there this time. Would've been nice had he asked what she planned to do story wise had she stayed, and asked Stephen what the hell happened in 1994 and what he thought about his firing later that year. Great interview though 

I loved hearing from Mart (my favorite Ed) and Fran. Disappointed that Alan brought up Mart working with 2 Leslie's (Adams and Rodell) but left out Kathryn Hays, the 2nd Leslie, and who had been at ATWT for about 2 decades before Alan started working for P&G 

On As The World Turns, I believe Camille was searching for her father. She became close to John Dixon, and I thought either he was her father or a red herring, but Camille left town without an answer.

And I don't think they ever attempted a story out of it, but I don't think they ever mentioned who was Cassie's father on Guiding Light. 

1 hour ago, Mitch said:

Ah everyone is always on MH and his weight...(hello Doug Marland...everyone can't be a muscle twink for you to fawn over..) I thought he looked cute in all of those. Agreed on DS..though I never found him as accessible as MH's Ed, he did not age. I too can't believe that Rauchie didn't offer him a return with no Ed around to have a Bauer patriarch .they could have kept Marj's Alex to pair him with (and recast Raines for God Sake!) The eventual mob storyline would have been better with Mr. Law and Order vs. Mob Mama.  Stewart was in California at that time so would have have agreed?

In regards to MH and his weight, I still remember 40 yrs later, when Peter Simon showed up as new Ed, there was shock and anger in my house, and the 1st thing I said was, "how are they going to let that puny, little man play Ed?" lol. 

     With Don Stewart, I remember him doing an interview with 1 of the soap mags when he returned briefly, and he said that he did want to return, and that soaps no longer had his type of character on. So it was definitely TPTB who didn't want him back. Later when Michelle was accused of murder, I always thought Mike should've been there, which added to all the things that didn't make sense during Rauch's plot gimmicky run