You're Soaking in it

3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Jessica Tuck as Kit Fisher would have made my head explode, and not in a good way either. I just would not have been able to support that, ever, ever, ever. 

I see what you're saying. But Kit would have been an awful character for anyone to play: She showed up, revealed herself to be Jackson's "dead" sister (right after he was out-of-the-blue talking about her death), basically acted like a bitch to any PV resident she crossed, made everyone hate her, then was raped so that viewers were supposed to suddenly like her, but no one cared. 

Add Lee Hawkins (AKA poor man's Ray Gardner), his daughter-by-day / ghost-of-dead-wife-by-night Camile, suddenly-psychic Mateo, his never before-mentioned wife / baby-mama Raquel (he didn't see HER coming!), resurrected-just-for-comedy Mike Roy, and the hysterical conclusion of Brooke's storyline with Jim Thomasen... 1998 was the first time in AMC's history that it became a legitimate hot mess. 

*Something "AMC" new to add that I don't think has been mentioned yet:

Pierce Riley, love interest for Janet... then Brooke... originated in 1995 by James Fitzpatrick, ending in scandal and replaced by Greg Wrangler in 1996, himself replaced several months later by Maxwell Caulfield....

The role was created for Kin Shriner, who backed out. 

On 8/27/2019 at 3:14 PM, John said:

Really? I wish there was video of that

There isn't. Eva LaRue is the only actress to play Maria Santos, who first entered the storyline as... Trevor's doctor. Here's one of her first episodes: 

On 9/16/2019 at 10:59 AM, Khan said:

I would have guessed Laurel since ED resembles Kristen Jensen, who originated the role.  Either they would have created Laurel for her, or they would have wanted her to replace Jensen (but wound up going in a different direction with Felicity LaFortune).

100% Laurel. And you're right, Khan, the role was created with Eileen in mind. ABC tried to get her two years earlier for OLTL as a recast Gabrielle... she declined for the same reason: not wanting to relocate to NY.

As for Kit Fisher / Christine Montgomery, AMC was courting Jessica Tuck (ex-Megan, OLTL). Obviously that didn't work out. She dodged a bullet since 1998 was just a major WTF year for AMC.

I'm only including recasts of character that were being played by an actor who popularized a role ... So for example, I can't add Genie Francis as GH's Laura or Cady McClain as AMC's Dixie, because their predecessors didn't exactly make an impact or impression. On the other hand, Sherry Stringfield as GL's Blake , I see differently - since Elizabeth Dennehy was clearly front-burner, and was arguably really good in the role - same for Judi Evans replacing Cali Timmins as AW's Paulina.

Karen Witter is for me the most impressive recast as OLTL's Tina. I just couldn't imagine anyone else succeeding Andrea Evans - I don't think any viewer at the time thought that was possible. Then she just showed up one day and did it. It was as if she and Evans rode on the same wave of energy and spirit. She generally resembled Evans, had a similar way of speaking and moving, and instantly connected with every single co-star on screen.

You didn't need anyone to tell you that she was Tina; it was 100% clear from the second she showed up. She eventually added some traits to the role: growth, signs of selflessness, more compassion, independence - not everyone was a fan of those changes, but Tina could retain childlike petulance for only so long. (The downside is that then-HW Michael Malone never truly got Tina, and would ultimately derail her on-screen under mis-recast Krista Tesreau, and then off-screen in his second run as head writer - reducing her to a deadbeat mom.)

Other actors who wowed me in roles I didn't necessarily think could be successfully recast:

Elaine Princi as OLTL's Dorian, 1989-1993 ( >< Robin Strasser)

Robin Mattson as AMC's Janet Green, 1994-2000 ( >< Kate Collins)

Christina Bennett Lind as AMC's Bianca Montgomery, 2010-2011 ( >< Eden Riegel)

Lisa Peluso as Loving's Ava Rescott Alden, 1988-1995 ( ><> Roya Megnot)

Lee Meriwether as AMC's Ruth Martin, 1996-2011 ( ><> Mary Fickett)

"Honorable mentions" - otherwise very good recasts cut short of their potential mostly due to BTS-BS:

Carrie Genzel as AMC's Skye Chandler, 1996-1997 ( ><> Robin Christopher)

Grace Phillips as OLTL's Sarah Buchanan, 1992-1993 ( > Jensen Buchanan)

Carrington Garland as SaBa's Kelly Capwell, 1989-1991 ( >> Robin Wright; > Kimberly MacArthur)

On 5/6/2019 at 2:26 PM, Vee said:

I seriously doubt it was ever rewritten. I don't think Jessica not being Viki's was ever going to be the final outcome. I think the planned outcome was what we ended up getting: Both Jessica and Natalie are Viki's daughters. I'd heard about that reveal (and Mitch's return) months before it aired, and I'd suspected it long before that.

The originally planned ultimate outcome was, how it ended... except it wasn't initially envisioned to wait an entire decade.

On 5/6/2019 at 1:55 PM, Khan said:

It would have depended on which HW she had to work with, though.  If she had had someone like Lorraine Broderick as her HW, then maybe (she would have been good at GL).  Chances are, however, Francesca James would have been stuck with someone like Megan McTavish or Brown & Esensten.

Case in point: All My Children with Francesca James & Broderick in 1997....  then James & McTavish in 1998. Wow, was that an awful "WTF" year.

5 hours ago, Vee said:

But in fairness, isn't that exactly what a culture of denial is? They sold an image of the closeted actors to the predominantly heterosexual and (often) domestic female audience.

That isn't the same scenario that j swift was describing, which is what I was responding to. Maybe I should have said "self-denial."

But yes, "culture of denial" also applies to what you said, all of which is valid. Well beyond magazines (soap or otherwise), pretty much every part of the entertainment industry -  from execs, producers, publicists, to actors themselves - helped maintain that order. Too many still do.

2 minutes ago, j swift said:

That is an excellent point, well stated, thank you for your insight

Let me say, though, I know there are a few editors who attracted themselves some attention... and might have left the kind of impression you're describing! I don't fault anyone for their thoughts about the soap magazines. So really, thank you for bringing it up. 

3 hours ago, j swift said:

However, I still maintain that there was a "Liberace-Effect" in the soap press, wherein female editors of female-skewed soap magazines that tried to sell dish soap to housewives didn't want to see or hear that their favorite male stars were gay because it interrupted the illusion of the soap hunk. 

I can't see into the operation of each soap editor's mind. But I can tell you that from the 90's forward, there wasn't any culture of denial that I think you're describing here. Everyone knows / knew who was doing who - whether it involved being gay, straight, or bi... As Vee made reference to, every show had/has a publicist who is supposed to be in the loop on every interview & conversation their talent is having with the press. The talent is also supposed to be checking with the publicist on things they will or won't talk about. Nobody was to violate that publicist relationship.

The idea that the soap mags were overrun by women desperate not to shatter hunky delusions, is the real fantasy here. About a third of the magazines' editorial staff were gay men, and one of the most recognizable and respected editors in the industry was an out lesbian - certainly none of those were personally invested in maintaining such an illusion. But they and everyone else were all journalists who (*with a few infamous exceptions) always practiced with professionalism. They knew their #1 job was to produce the kind of compelling content that sells the issues.

Keeping an actor's sexual orientation, even their entire personal life - straight included  - out of the pages was always the doing of said actor, the actor's representation, and/or the production they worked for. 

19 hours ago, Khan said:

Was Kate Collins ever nominated for playing Natalie and/or Janet on AMC?

I don't believe she was ever nominated, not even for her work in 1987 for the Ross / acquaintance rape storyline... I mention that because it was the first time I really saw how much she was capable of. She was mesmerizing. 

On 5/6/2019 at 8:08 PM, j swift said:

The point has been made that the soap press has always been complicit in the "closeting" of actors.  Many gay actors have commented that if a writer knew their sexuality then the magazine profile just would not focus on their dating life. 

But what other choice would there be when the actor says the subject is off-limits for publication, or describes something contrary? You can print only what you can quote.

I can recall around 2010, when OLTL's Nic Robuck (James Ford) - mentioned in this thread - was interviewed alongside on-screen brothers Lenny Platt (Nate Salinger) and David E. Gregory (Robert Ford) for a profile Q&A. They were asked if they're dating anyone. Lenny and David both dropped some tidbits, and Nic simply said "I don't discuss my personal life." 

Even though I'm sure the interviewer knew he was already married to Tyler Robuck, the magazine is obligated to go with what Nic tells them. 

Believe me, they would love to give you the real scoop about the antics of a certain pair of recast on-screen brothers finding lust off the set  ... or to have broken a story of two intoxicated leading men (also on-screen brothers on a show, but appearing on said show at different times) who otherwise present as hetero, getting incredibly, visibly, palpably touchy-feely outside the Daytime Emmys - and overheard & witnessed by many around them, one suggesting they go to his hotel room - then exiting together...

But as complicit as it may be, it wasn't on-record, so they legally can't.

On 4/22/2019 at 10:05 PM, j swift said:

Kim Zimmer had nothing but praise for JFP and her allowing Reva to age in her memoir.  Zimmer also won an Emmy under JFP.  So, this seems to just be conjecture without any fact.  

So does this, just a little

Zimmer won 4 Daytime Emmy awards, but none were under JFP. And her time working with Phelps was very brief: KZ returned to work in March of 1995, and JFP was moved to Another World in early May - actually, 24 years ago today. (The infamous day of P&G soaps musical chairs.)

As was mentioned, Zimmer didn't talk about Phelps in her book, but was cordial about her upon returning to GL. Prior to 1995, JFP made no secret that as far as she was concerned, she wasn't looking to bring Reva back. 

1 hour ago, redontop4 said:

 

Of course, it was Paul Rauch who moved the exec producer credit to the top. Before him, the GL EP was listed after the writers and directors, then came the EP, then other producers. When Rauch arrived, he moved his name up to the top of the credits, followed by the writers, then director, then other producers. Because he was just that important, you know.

Though it changed the placement from GL's norm, the EP credit coming first isn't unusual. It sometimes depended on the practice of the studio / network. ABC shows were typically "Created by" first, then EP on the crawl (before the early-mid 2000's). Other shows were giving their EPs final billing - sometimes with the crawl freezing on their credit, such as with Santa Barbara. It's probably where Conboy got his "inspiration" for moving it on GL.

6 minutes ago, RavenWhitney said:

 

 

Whichever producer hired Stephen Black and Henry Stern as HW of ATWT. Wow....bad

 

 

That would be the aforementioned John Valente.

Well if there's any actor that can turn a lemon soap character on paper into on-screen lemonade, it's Watros. 

For my personal regular viewing, Phelps was worst for her OLTL... though I can't accurately split how much of that work was hers, or Megan McTavish's. I do know they were a horrible combo: No sense of heart, hope, emotion, rooting-value, character... just dark, dark, dark. I've tried to think of a worse time on the show, and though a few periods come close, this one wins hands down.

Then there are EP's that are only as good as the head writer's work. Julie Hanan Carruthers is one of those. Because she had a few horrible head writers at different times, her AMC was periodically awful - more awful than OLTL ever was, when you count Charles Pratt's run as HW. Another example, McTavish's work under Jean Dadarrio Burke as EP was much better than the nosedive it took after JDB was replaced by JHC.

So the mark of a good EP vs a bad one varies for me.  

On 4/3/2019 at 4:30 PM, Vee said:

I love Robin to bits, so I'll be happy to tune in to see her. But she's going to catch hell for replacing Sorel.

I've always thought there was a good chance Sorel had a part in what provoked Robin to leave OLTL the first time in 1987. I don't think she ever directly said anything about LS, but she didn't exactly have kind words for Paul Rauch... Of course most everyone knows what was happening with LS & PR during that time, and Judith Sanders was created for her & story / family built all around her. 

So the petty side of me wonders if there's also, beyond just the fun of playing this character, a tiny bit of particular pleasure for RS in taking on Vivian...

7 hours ago, Khan said:

 

I'd really love to know what MD loved so dern much about Vanessa Bennett, because, IMO, AMC never knew what to do with her.

Khan, Marj is one of a handful of soap actors I was blessed to know, and at the very time she played Vanessa. She felt more freedom with Vanessa, and she really seemed to be having fun working on AMC. Her co-stars welcomed and respected her, and you could tell she was happy. I don't know how much that contrasts with the experiences on other shows... And while she never said anything about this in particular, it comes to my mind that Vanessa may be the only daytime role she created - all the others were recasts (I think).

16 minutes ago, John said:

If not Cady, Laura Leighton would be a good Nina on GH

She and Jamie Luner were up for Phyllis before Tognoni was cast.

It's also possible that Stafford's exit is so abrupt, that the only option is to recast - at least to bring the storyline to a conclusion.... Though I totally understand the willingness to let Nina simply disappear, lol.

3 minutes ago, John said:

Maybe Nina will become likeable now

And then there's this ^

9 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

It's been bizarre to see the stans insisting Stafford stomped in and demanded Gina be fired and demanded her old role back. LOL. That's not how this works ... 

It's pretty much how it worked for Robin Strasser on Elaine Princi...    

5 hours ago, dio said:

 

i'm not gonna argue with you about a middling soap actress getting work outside of soap.

Oh, GOOD! Because I was afraid you guys were going to hijack an otherwise very interesting conversation about these two actresses soap hopping, and turn it into bashing an actress you don't like just to aggravate someone who is obviously her fan. So I really apprecia-----

5 hours ago, dio said:

GT wouldn't have kept the role warm for all these years if she had better options. She wouldn't have been on GL during it's dying day or taken this role at all if she had better options. Y'all need to stop acting like these soap actors are destined for bigger and better things

Aw, I spoke too soon. Seriously... Could we please not be a discussion-kill and return to our regularly scheduled programming?  The conversation was good, because the BTS turn of events and the people involved make it interesting. I initially thought Tognoni wasn't quite right for Phyllis, but I think she's a good actress and I'm interested in how this affects her (many feel she was wrongly screwed) & where she'll go from here. A lot of people share that sentiment.

On 3/31/2019 at 8:27 AM, RavenWhitney said:

If NBC/Corday was smart they'd recast Sami with Gina. Gina is awesome and has a big following and already took over one iconic character.  Gina would rock as Sami.  Gina's 45 and Ali Sweeney is 42 so totally would work.  

*Putting the obviously predictable Sweeney fans resistance aside... Tognoni would be superb as Sami.

But if that can't happen (*see first line), make her a now-single-ready-to-mingle Carrie Brady, instead.

9 hours ago, danfling said:

I cannot remember if Michael Malone has been mentioned here or not.   However, so much of his work (when he was first writing One Life to Live) was better than excellent!

 

When he began on the show, I am not sure if Paul Rauch was producing the show during his last days or if Linda Gottlieb had already begun producing.   I understand that she demanded the best from everyone.  His first work (which he wrote without a collaborator) was not very good at all.  Shortly later, he was paired with his collaborator, and the writing was astonishing!

 

I do not know if he had a collaborator on Another World.   The Another World Homepage lists the fellow writers as Tom King, Craig Carlson, Peter Brash, Shelly Altman, Mimi Leahey, Lewis Arlt, Joanna Kosloff, Michael Slade, Gillian Spencer, Sofia Landon Geier, Juliet Law Packer, Mary Sue Price, Richard J. Allen, Richard Backus, Tom O'Connell, Thomas Babe, Chris Ceraso, and Jane Murphy.

 

Later, he returned to One Life to Life.  I do not think that he had a collaborator and Ms. Gottlieb had departed the show.   His work, again, was terrible.

Malone came after Gottlieb. Craig Carlson was still head writer for about a month.

You're right, Malone was a novel writer, and didn't grasp (embrace?) concepts of pacing & storyline connectivity. Josh Griffith as his co-head writer definitely made a positive impact there.

It was announced that Malone & Griffith were returning as co-head writers effective on-air February 2003. But Malone's work was delayed by a month or two because of some contractual obligation he couldn't release from.  Outgoing head writer Lorraine Broderick (she was actually demoting to the Associate Head Writer post) served as interim co-head writer with Griffith until Malone got there.

I actually think Griffith & Broderick's work played far better emotionally than what came once Malone was back on board. Lindsay shooting & killing Sam (by mistake) & her subsequent breakdown - probably Catherine Hickland's best work ever; Al Holden being the voice of the night - his drug problem & budding relationship with Marcie... Two strong points.

Once Malone returned, it was Jessica & Antonio in-your-face & down-your-throats, Keri Reynolds suddenly-psycho, Cristian gone crazy, Dorian's return (good) but married to Mitch & obsessed with the Baaahdra Diamond (BAD), Reverend Joey kissing cousin "Flash"/Sarah & pouting over uninteresting Jen, the off-screen ruin of her mother Tina (which to be fair, Malone had already ruined in 1995), Music Box Killer, the Santis, and the unceremonious ditching - sometimes killing - of legacy characters like Gabrielle, Max, Al ...

By the time he was done, it was a crap fest, which ironically made the transition to Dena Higley's work kind of seamless.

2 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

No to Emma Samms ....she was horrible on the original...

It wasn't Samms that was horrible: The super-soft writing of her character, which actually started to take shape a year before Martin left, was the problem. With the recast, The Colbys storylines abandoned any sense of the strong Fallon we'd known.

When Samms returned to Dynasty, things started to improve. Then come season 9, credit the new EP David Paulsen. In an interview, he described his first time meeting Samms, getting to know her personality, and realizing the essence of Fallon was right there in front of him... But the previous writers had been ignoring her fire in favor of having her play a shrinking violet. 

3 hours ago, John said:

Pamela Sue Martin

Emma Samms.

Honestly, I wouldn't wish this show upon her or anyone... But I've always thought her Fallon - especially when well written (see season 9) - was the better conception of the spoiled princess daughter to Alexis & Blake.  Add that to her screen presence, being beautiful, enigmatic, having immediate chemistry with her co-stars... I think she'd also be a more on-point Alexis... But again, with this Dynasty, any actor should proceed with caution.