Michael

6 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

. 

When you take out the Hispanic culture. It's just admixture of black and white. Nicole and Taylor can be half-Mendez. My people are quite capable of having many different phenotypes. We don't all look Native American. 

Of course! Didn't mean to imply otherwise. I've just always found the casting for that family kind of absurd because they kept adding elements and retcons, and it didn't visually track based on the parent combinations we were presented. And of course they've never played any kind of Latina identity for Nicole (despite some shoehorned-in dialogue in recent years re: food, I believe) or any sense of Brandon discovering that he was not Hispanic/Latino but was actually Black.

1 hour ago, Forever8 said:

They would need to cast someone Afro-Latino for Brandon. 

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

Agree with everything you said.  I am sure Brook talks to Lois, but Lois seems like a character who would not want phone calls and want to be there in person.  She's nothing if not protective and sometimes overbearing with Brooklynn.

I agree Matt Cedeno looks right for the Brandon as well.  He looked so distinctly different from Nicole and the Taylors I am surprised it took everyone so long to question his paternity lol.  But then Nicole/Taylor don't look much like Paul either so who knows?

This is where it gets tough for me, and maybe why they've held off recasting the character. Cedeno is Afro-Cuban, but... Brandon isn't. He's the child of a Black man and a very clearly white woman. Nicole and Taylor are half-Mendez, so their casting has always been off, too. Obviously it's the result of making stuff up as they were going along (and not caring enough about the specifics of race in casting), but do you proceed with a Brandon who seems visually consistent with the prior one -- and part of that story was that he hadn't had reason to question whether he was Paul's son until adulthood, so he wasn't clearly a different race -- or with one who actually is the race the character is supposed to be?

I think you could easily fold in someone like David Fumero as Brandon Walker. Or they could really make an effort to adjust the casting to reflect him being Abe and Fay's son. I know Cedeno had an Afro-Cuban background, but he always read more like Paul Walker's kid than Abe's.

14 minutes ago, John said:

Probably not unless they have a window open like 2-3 months to film

I could see them doing a heavier arc for Will and Sonny, like a two-week thing the way Sami just did (or another Peacock miniseries), but I don't expect Will to be in consistent story otherwise. He's going to pop in and out for the time being. 

As for the ending of BS, I was shocked that Burton kinda showed up and acted! I don't give two sh*ts about Harris as a character, but there was actual effort there. 

6 minutes ago, John said:

They shoot other recurring actors in chunks and they get story (VK as Ciara) so they could do the same with Wilson but it seems they arent invested. Hopefully they prove me wrong. 

They've stopped doing that because it was making production insane. That's why VK, Marci, Lamon, and Sal all recently exited. They're using Will as much as they can with Chandler's schedule restraints, but I don't expect them to build big story around recurring players very often for the foreseeable future.

The Bope material today was really nice, and I love that they sprang for the song (and wove it into the Hong Kong gala). That said... we did all this in 2016 during Hope's standalone episode at the Horton cabin. Angel Bo appeared to Hope. Grown-up Angel Zack was there. Even Larry Welch was there to be an ass for a minute. And Bo and Hope had a goodbye dance to "Tonight I Celebrate My Love." So if this is the extent of the reunion... what was the point? I'm holding out hope for some progression tomorrow.

39 minutes ago, janea4old said:

Eve Donovan's history, including Harris Michaels, Andrew. Shane, Kim, Frankie Brady, Jennifer Horton.
https://www.soapcentral.com/days-of-our-lives/whoswho/eve.php

I remember watching some of this on youtube years ago.  She kidnapped little Andrew.  

Kassie DePaiva's portrayal of Eve was (basically) a very different character who happened to have the same name and family. But nothing like Eve.  Ron wanted to cast Kassie.

Kassie was cast as Eve several years before Ron came anywhere near Days. They approached Charlotte Ross first, but she wasn't available to go on-contract.

Stefano saved her and had her cryogenically frozen until Rolf later developed the technology to revive her. Standard explanation.

I thought Episode 2 was a lot less rough than Episode 1. Andrew's a cutie, too. And this was a fun use of Eileen. They also didn't club us over the head with the Chris K stuff, which helped.

21 minutes ago, Tonksadora said:

I loved it when Steve remarked that Joey looked different. I like those kinds of in-jokes. Sorry you don't.

That was fine. They're all fine in isolation. I just feel like they club us over the head with them, and I was watching with my fiancé, who soaks up a lot of Days because of me but isn't a fan, and those things almost always strike him as weird little moments that take him out of the narrative if he's gotten into it. I think a few are fun, for sure, but they sometimes create entire scenes out of them when a quick throwaway line would work.

Also the new Joey... is kind of hot? Wasn't expecting that.

This was cute. I really enjoy the intention and the history-loving energy they having going -- I just wish they'd scale back on the inside joke stuff by 50% or so. 

Megan's re-entrance, for a relatively nothing character who has not been mentioned in a meaningful way in almost 40 years, was pretty well done!

2 minutes ago, Forever8 said:

Did Anjelica even mention Alex when she was there last? 

I think only in the context of "We share a son." It was SUPER weird to bring her back (and have her fixated on Justin) without explaining much about her relationship with Alex or what their lives had been like. I know they cancelled a casting call for Alex around the time MF came in, so who knows what the plan was?

Alex is Justin's son with Anjelica Deveraux. He and Adrienne primarily raised Alex, though. (We've never really gotten clarity on how much contact he had with Anjelica over the years, which was a weird missing piece from when she showed up fixated on getting Justin back.) And yeah, he's being played by Robert Scott Wilson, who's about to exit as Ben. 

9 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Do those Horton characters interact much? Would a newer viewer get a sense of a strong family unit?

Sometimes they actually force it a little TOO much. They had Abigail talking about needing to save "my cousin Sarah" even though we'd hardly ever seen the two interact. At this point, it's more that there are several different branches of the family, all grown out from Tom and Alice. I'm not super-close with my third cousins, but they're still family. And they still feature the Horton house prominently, with Julie and Doug living there now that Jennifer and Jack are only around part-time (which is an actor issue for Jennifer, not the show's choice). There were significant scenes in that living room on Tuesday's episode in which Julie learned about the history of Juneteenth, which is important because she has a Black grandson and Black great-grandchildren. It's more an evolved version of the family, but I really do not feel like the Hortons have been purposely minimized in the last few decades.

On 6/13/2022 at 3:10 PM, AMCOLTLLover said:

Lucas Horton? Allie? There are still a lot Hortons. Don’t know why people pretend like the Hortons don’t exist anymore

Yeah, I'm not sure why this is becoming a narrative. Obviously they've made some mistakes, but we have Lucas, Allie, and Sarah all with the last name Horton onscreen and in story right now. Will is recurring. Ciara's around for the time being. Shawn is in the middle of a story. Abigail just died, but you know they'll undo that at some point (which is a whole other issue). Eli has been minimized because of the actor's availability, but he's in story, as is Julie, an original character. The family tree is spread out more than it used to be, and there are branches missing that could be filled in, but it's not like the family has been wiped out. 

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Who is Alexander Kiriakis? I'm trying to think of some lame-os that's been on the show before in the past (briefly). Is it the dude with the waxed/plucked eyebrows? Oh, was that the guy with the brown hair and I think he had a fling with Kate, right? I've scene the actor in other shows. I think one of them is that Canadian comedy series Workin' Moms.

You're thinking of Nicholas Alamain, son of Carly and Lawrence. Victor Webster played him at the end of the 90s when they over-SORASed him. The character came back briefly in 2011 for Carly's exit, with his age sort of reset to where it should've been.

2 hours ago, David_Vickers said:

Abigail hasn't been part time for the last 2 years.

Kate Mansi left in spring 2020, when Abigail went off to the treatment facility, and Marci Miller didn't return until Sept 2020. Marci wasn't on contract when she returned, and then they wrote her out for months during 2021 to accommodate her maternity leave. Abigail was "in Boston helping pack up Laura's [!@#$%^&*]" for all of summer 2021. She's only been back on-air (and on contract) since Sept 2021. 

Now that we're pretty sure she doesn't get DECAPITATED, I don't really mind this. The issue with Will's death was that he was the first major gay character on the show and we watched him be brutally murdered. Abigail being found dead? Meh. I know they're trying to make it seem permanent, but they already had her "die" in a plane crash in 2016, so... whatever. 

They've been writing a part-time Abigail for like six years on and off. Ciara being part-time has held Ben hostage and resulted in a [!@#$%^&*]-ton of scenes where it's just the two of them in bed or "schmoopy"-ing each other. Sami's ins and outs are causing them to twist stories and characters into pretzels constantly. I have no idea how they're going to navigate Will being on recurring, but I'm sure it'll become exhausting at some point. So whatever. "Kill" her off for now, if they want to write for Chad. Frankly, I'd just have written him out, too, since J&J's family seems to be naturally receding from focus, but if they wanna write for him... whatever. 

Now, will the story be well written? Probably not. And will she be back? Of course she will. I long ago stopped taking any grief seriously on this show, which is part of a larger problem. But if they aren't chopping off the head of a legacy character, I'm just kind of meh on the whole thing.

I thought Jordan had been pretty upfront about what Clyde did to her. I remember being pissed that Kate stayed with Clyde after learning that, given her own history of abuse (and Billie's) at Curtis's hands. And I'm pretty sure they addressed that angle during one of Clyde's prison breaks after Jordan returned in the last few years. 

Maybe Ben never found out, or Jordan wanted to shield him, but other people did know at some point.

People definitely looked older in the past -- I'm sure some of it is because we present-day viewers see them as 'old-timey' and as younger versions of people we know as 'old', but styling was very different. Think about the fact that Tamara Braun (Ava) just turned 51, and Frances Reid (Alice) was, I believe, 52 when Days premiered in 1965. Lauren Koslow (Kate) is 17 years older than Frances Reid was when Days premiered. Styling was very different, and it makes a huge difference. Mickey of the mid-60s doesn't read as being 33 (I think that's how old he was when the show premiered). He feels, I dunno, 45?!

Thanks for the tags, @victoria foxton! I can't wait to watch these and join the conversation.

It's even harder to watch these crappy corporate stories (Days is at least as bad as Y&R, but I'd say worse in that one regard) when we have stuff like Succession and The Dropout available elsewhere. It makes these goofy "CEO wars" with no detail or nuance seem even more cartoonish.

12 minutes ago, j swift said:

Wouldn't it be interesting in these modern times to have temp recasts using BIPOC actors?

Soap audiences are willing to suspend our disbelief in all sorts of ways.  Why not try an API Alexis for a few days, or a Black Monica?  It wouldn't effect the plot and the diversity would be appreciated.

Interesting idea in theory, and certainly not impossible. I do see two potential issues:

1) It's confusing to cast, say, a Black woman as Alexis and then see her with any of Alexis's three very clearly white daughters. Obviously Black people have white children, and vice-versa, but it could create an entirely different context for those relationships.

2) A Black Monica Quartermaine would be a Black woman who became a doctor in the 1970s, which is a very different backstory than a white woman who had the privilege of being white, especially in the "old days" but even up until now.

Not that soaps even write this context for 95% of their BIPOC characters, though they're getting better at it, but I do think it adds a layer to the characters that would be neither intended nor properly explored. 

I do think it's an idea worthy of some exploring, though!

19 hours ago, dc11786 said:

To me, the Jordan story stood out because it was a glaring weak thread on a strong show. Little things started to unravel, but the show was mostly watchable until about spring 2014. I seem to remember several characters being introduced in February 2014 and that felt like a rebuilding period. I know Paige arrived on the scene around this time and Ben #1 was also brought in. I want to say Drake Hogestyn returned after one of his absences during this period. Both of those stories (Ben/Abby and JJ/Paige) took time to develop and really weren’t interesting until third parties were introduced (Chad and Eve). 

When it became clear that Nicole and Eric were no longer endgame, I lost interest. I enjoyed elements of the Percy Ruffles story and Abigail and EJ’s affair. The introduction of Paul Narita was great. Even at its worst, the worst being the elephant statue plot, there were some strong story elements that I felt could have salvaged things. Even in 2015, there were things I thought were things to enjoy like the death of Meredith Jennings, the Abigail / Ben / Chad triangle, and the hint that Eric and Nicole might find a way back to each other after Xander nearly killed them. I really wish we had gotten to see Eve gaslight Jennifer into thinking she was mentally ill.

Going back to Jordan, I wonder if the initial plan was to bring back Chelsea Brady. Kate secretly paying her granddaughters salary to take care of Kate’s younger lover seems a very Kate thing to do. I remember them finally revealing Kate was paying Jordan’s salary and it felt so uneventful. When Chelsea had left in 2009, she has gone to help Billie recover from a car accident. I know that the show tried to bring back Darin Brooks in 2013 so I don’t think it would have been a stretch to bring back Chelsea especially since Casey Deidrick was leaving and Nathan Owens wasn’t setting the world on fire as Cameron. To be fair to Owens, Cameron was underdeveloped under both actors. I could see them pairing Max and Abigail again. 
 

I’ve also wondered if they were going to tie Jordan to Vargas, who was quickly dumped in August 2013 after testing the waters with him and Hope. I remember them making a big deal that Vargas was married as he put his wedding ring on after getting out of prison while Nick and Gabi married for real. I liked Vargas and was disappointed when they sent him back to prison. 
 

The Clyde stuff was odd. I can remember the big reveal that Jordan had killed her mother and baby brother in a car accident and Clyde raped Jordan as result. So bizarre considering Jordan left only weeks later. Then we had Clyde in therapy sessions with Marlena. Eventually, they played Clyde as Victor’s sparring partner I believe. I recall a scene with Maggie and Clyde and thinking that friendship would have been interesting, but truthfully Clyde’s baggage was hard to overlook. I liked Clyde pushing Ben towards Abigail to raise the Weston social standing. 

My mental timeline is probably mixed up, but it felt like it stayed "decent" until fall 2014, for the most part. Abigail and EJ's affair wasn't really a great story, but it had a lot of great moments. Same with Sami, Kate, and Gabi "killing" Nick. In retrospect, there was a lot of stuff that I liked pieces of but had other elements dragging it down. JJ/Eve was juicy, but Paige was so insipid -- and it definitely felt like a retcon that Paige was Eve's daughter, probably as a means of breathing some life into that story, because they'd had Paige and Theresa cross paths without even a hint that they knew each other.

Didn't they say that Eve, Paige, and Ben all recognized each other from Florida at one point, too? That got dropped.

I think we knew that Kate was paying Jordan from the outset, because she hired a physical therapist for Rafe and then was pissed it was a female Jordan instead of a man, right? I don't know why anyone thought building a triangle off a pairing like Rafe/Kate made any sense, but they sort of cobbled together an interesting umbrella story by roping in Abigail, Chad, Ben, and Clyde as things went along. 

The big thing, of course, that was hanging over that era was Daniel. It truly felt like he had to be part of everything. Even when Kristen returned in disgrace after her rape of Eric was exposed, they made it about Daniel. What was with that weird scene of Daniel and Kristen starting to hook up, only to be caught by Brady? Awful.

18 hours ago, dc11786 said:

I saw clips from a film with actress Elizabeth Roberts. She looked very familiar, but I couldn’t place her until I checked IMDB. She had played Marge Bernardi, the widow of the officer Sani had killed. I remember that story was one of the last times daytime shocked me. I remember Stefano summoning Bernardi to meet with him. Stefano had just learned that Kate had been carrying on with Rafe. In the story, I believe Rafe had been in a coma after a struggle with the criminal who had raped Nick in prison and had held a pregnant Gabi captive. I remember thinking Stefano was going to order a hit on Rafe but instead he told Bernardi to “to cut it off.” 

I remember loving that twist because I could wait for EJ to learn that Sami actually killed Bernardi because he was going to cut off Rafe’s junk. Obviously, Sami didn’t know Bernardi’s actual intention, but I wanted EJ to stew over that. Unfortunately, that never transpired. I remember feeling that story was wrapped up quick. Some never seen nurse had actually killed Bernardi. It was clear that there was another angle they were going to explore because they had a random scene of a woman cutting up in the square while Sami chased Bernardi around. Originally, the casting call was  for a juggler. I suspect that video was suppose to come into play at some point, but it never did.

I wonder hoW much Joe Mascolo’s health played in those 2013 storylines. Stefano, I believe, was the only one who knew about Bernardi’s original intentions. I also remember the nurse reveal was very quick compared to usual big reveals of the time. Around the same time, I remember speculating that the Jordan storyline was originally suppose to be a Kate / Stefano story where Stefano was going to conspire with Kate to keep Rafe / Jordan apart before Kate decided she preferred Stefano as the Jordan story was incredibly thin. Also, the casting call for Clyde was originally for a character on a six month contract. Clyde felt like a Stefano placeholder. Granted, I think Blake Berris received a similar contract before it was renewed. I think Jordan and Nick might have been an interesting pair. 

I definitely felt there is a bit of current story to mine from that plot. I remember thinking that one day Bernardi’s son would return to Salem to get revenge against Sami and become involved with Allie. Not that would happen now, but that’s what I remember thinking when the story was originally playing out.

I know you and I have gone back and forth a lot on this period elsewhere, but I find it so interesting to discuss. The intro of the Jordan storyline (and all its weird shifts) felt like the time when the TomSell era, which had been so strong from late 2012-fall 2013, started to fall apart. Something was up with the resolution of Sami's murder trial for shooting Bernardi -- that thing with the nurse was so random and unsatisfying. And I always wanted them to do more with Marge Bernardi. They could've involved Lucas with her, for instance. 

Stefano's involvement during that period felt like it changed over and over -- probably when Joe's health improved, they did more with him, and then they had to pull back when it waned. And I don't think they knew how they wanted to position Clyde, either. Setting up that he had raped Jordan and then trying to make him a viable love interest for Kate was insane. That whole Jordan/Rafe story was SO limp and without a real throughline, too. Just sloppy.

I love the idea of Bernardi's son returning and being paired with either of Sami's daughters. At one point, I thought Charlie might turn out to be the child of Alan Harris, targeting Allie as vengeance for what Sami did to his father. This would be a similar vibe.

In my mind, she had, but I'm realizing she just set Jessica's gross DID backstory in motion, huh? I had conflated that with Mitch having been around.

22 minutes ago, Bright Eyes said:

It's sad that it has come to this for Victor Kiriakis. This show hasn't been truthful about the horrible person that he is and the people around him have suffered for it. He is not the type of character that should pass away in his sleep. He is a villain. A hateful, misogynistic, narcissistic abuser. He should have been killed off at some point, not get to potentially die on his own terms like he's Tom Horton.

They've softened and un-softened him so much over the years that I have whiplash. He's never quite been the supervillain Stefano is, and I think there's a way to play him as this unscrupulous businessman without Maggie constantly having to give him a pass on stuff like putting hits on people and harming their own family members.