LoyaltoAMC

Thanks for that article, Carl. It's obvious that Fulton was their "Susan Lucci" back in the day. Love how she's the only one who gets multiple pics. I didn't even recognize Marie Masters. Looks nothing like how most of us probably remember her. Barbara Berjer looks so regal. Huge difference from her look as Bridget on AW.

I've long been interested in this... I found a few interesting New York Times articles on it, that I can try to post but thats it... (Of course they didn't like it much...) Wish something from it was online

It was a pretty interesting show. Very laid back and a bit on the slow-paced side, but I remember finding it intriguing. It reminded me more of Peyton Place and of daytime soaps in general than of the other prime time soaps of the era, mostly because of its very cozy, middle America feel. Just maybe a little more on the gothic side. I remember there being a hint of an incestuous relationship btwn Guy Millington and his niece Ann Dulles, or maybe I perceived there to be one. Interesting that it had been developed as a tamer show for the 8pm slot. I didn't know that. I do recall it doing gangbusters in Dallas's slight then free-falling in its regular Sat 10pm slot. Then again, they could've run Marblehead Manor in Dallas's slot in the early to mid-80s and they'd be guaranteed at least a 40 share. I still remember the theme song and opening titles. The song was very, very catchy, and fit the slow, somewhat lazy pace of the show. It was probably from Jerrod Immel who created the Dallas and Knots themes. King's Crossing wasn't bad. There were some gothic elements, but it had a brighter, much less dark tone to it than Secrets. It seemed to carry the same basic premise as Falcon Crest (normal nuclear family return to spouse's hometown to find a cold, calculating aunt with a family secret). I thought Mary Frann and Bradford Dillman were very believeable as the Chase and Maggie of the show LOL. It was also geared toward teens, though ABC, which carried the show (Secrets was on CBS), aired it I think in the Sat 8pm slot, which didn't make sense. Just some fond memories of both shows.

Yep, Zaslow and Stephanie Braxton played husband and wife Jonathan and Carol Hadary on King's Crossing. They weren't in Secrets. I loved King's Crossing as much as Secrets. I was only 13 at the time, but I was such a soap geek I remember NEEDING to find out the backstage specifics-politics of why the show was being retooled and renamed. By the way, Braxton, who we all know also wrote GH and ATWT for ages, is the step-mother of Josh Hamilton, the first teen Charlie on AMC (the one who first appears during the Kate Martin funeral sequences). He's a pretty successful actor now, I guess. His dad is Dan Hamilton long-time soap director and actor. He played Kitty's first husband on AMC. The soap world is just so incestuous, I love it.

Does anyone else remember this short-lived prime time Lorimar soap? I actually recall this rather fondly and saw every one of the 10 or so episodes aired in the early 80s. It had a terrific cast and very catchy theme song. David Jacobs and some other Knots people produced it, and it was essentially a gothic Knots. Lots of interpersonal relationship and intergenerational stories in a suburban setting, but with a darker twist and more of an emphasis on the kids. Some really fine actors rounded out the cast, including Bibi Besch, Martha Scott,and Jordan Christopher--and it had some very strong young cast members including Lorenzo Lamas (whom Lorimar would ship off to Falcon Crest the following season), and Marilyn Jones, Linda Hamilton, Doran Clark, and Daniel Zippi (all three of whom would be shipped off to Lorimar's repackaged, more gothic version of Secrets called "Kings Crossing" on ABC the next season). The show was a ratings dud from the get-go, airing Saturdays at 10, when the target audience--teens and young adults--were not home. I was such a soap geek growing up, I remember waiting for this show to air with great anticipation and being bummed when it didn't take off. Anyone else recall this show?

Poor Patsy Bruder. They Nancy Hughes-ed Ellen way too prematurely.

I think the camp element worked with specific characters, and LML was fortunate to have those characters already there.

For instance, I thought that most of her stories for Karen - aside from the Meg stuff which I did not like - were very clever in basically writing around what was a one-note caricature. The stalking, her relationship with Mack (which was allowed some fun and sexy moments), her battles with the delicious Linda.

I thought she generally did a good job with material for Paige and for Greg. Paige did not fit into the old Knots Landing which was fading away by the time she arrived but when the show was reshaped she was a natural - a glossiness, a sheen, quick wit, yet some heart underneath. Greg was fun and yet also brooding and complicated and soulful. The story about Mary Catherine's death was a real sucker punch which Devane played brilliantly.

I also liked the Sumner company stuff.

The only material I strongly disliked during LML's era was the Meg custody battle, Mack becoming a bellowing self-righteous ass, Abby's exit story, the destructive writing for Olivia, and Valene's stories. The contempt that LML and Lechowick felt for Valene, and for Joan Van Ark, was palpable, and unfair.

I was also very disappointed with how Lynne Moody was treated, although I don't know if that was LML or the network.

I really disliked most of the big business stuff. My eyes glaze over even thinking about the Sumner Group LOL. I liked the quieter, more realistic show it was for the first few seasons. I stopped watching regularly in, I guess, 1986, and switched to watching LA Law in that Thurs 10pm spot. I think most Knots fans fall into 2 camps: those who liked the self-contained domestic and neighborhood-based stuff with elements of contiuning drama and those who liked the full-out soapy glam stuff of the later years. I guess different strokes for different folks.

I recently rewatched seasons 1&2 on DVD, and for the most part, I think they hold up very well as solid domestic drama. I also appreciate the strong atmospheric late 70s-early 80s So Cal lifestyle and the sense of community that pervaded these seasons, which for me was kind of lost in subsequent seasons, esp. after season 4. Sure, there are some weaker episodes (the terrorizing motorcycle gang, Ginger's stalker), but the writers did a great job of writing realistic stories and establishing relatable characters. I kind of loathe the glam turn the show took in season 5, though I suppose that was inevitable, given the success of FC and Dynasty and the general opulence of the Reagan '80s, but part of the reason for the success of the glam stuff was due to the strong characters that had been established in earlier seasons. Melrose Place evolved similarly, and I don't think all their nuttiness would have worked if not for the more "dull" relatable storylines that characterized the first season. I think the show totally went off the rails later seasons during the LML years. I know a lot of people liked her stuff, but under her pen, the characters seemed to turn into caricatures of their former selves and the camp element, which went against the show's grain, was really amped up.

I know it's not popular opinion, but I thought Generations was a god-awful show. Of course their attempt to have a core African American family was admirable, but I thought that the execution, from the writing, to the directing, to the acting, was terribly amateurish for most of its run. I will give the show credit in that the writing started to tighten up when Jorn Winther came aboard as EP, but it was never really very good. The best thing about the show was the theme song. I know the producers and some of the actors tried to blame the show's failure on viewers not being ready for a heavily integrated cast, but that was a cop out. I actually find it insulting that they expected AA viewers to watch simply because there was a large AA cast. Garbage is garbage. The truth is that it tanked partly because of its time slot and mostly because it was just terrible.

If KNOTS deserves any credit at all for being a more character-driven, "actors' soap," then it's due to the work of four people: Alec Baldwin, William Devane, Constance McCashin and Julie Harris. IMO, they're the only ones who gave consistently interesting and "real" performances. Everyone else just got to be a ham after awhile.

Personally, I'd add John Pleshette and Joan Van Ark to that list. I've been rewatching seasons 1 and 2, and Pleshette is just phenomenal. Say what you will about Joan, but she really got the character of Val. You can see she poured her heart and soul into it, and there is rarely a false note. Michele Lee was very good the first three seasons, but then she just became so gratingly over the top from then on.

i think that Lauren White left at the end of her contract. Carla Dragoni was cast as MJ but when Kathy Glass left OLTL (was she fired?) TD snapped her up and Dragoni was dumped.

I think Kathy Glass was fired. I heard that she wasn't particularly well-liked by her Doctors or OLTL castmates. Supposedly she was an uberbitch and very tough to work with.

Writing for and/or introducing families from the wrong side of the tracks was of Marland's fortes. That's definitely the one theme that runs through his writing. Besides expanding the Dancys, he created the Reardons on GL and Snyders on ATWT. He created the Donovans on Loving, and began phasing them out as a tight family unit in favor of the dirt-poor Sowolsky/Rescotts, probably to draw a greater class conflict with the Alden/Forbes family. Pretty sure he created the Sowolsky/Rescotts just before he left, or was that the succeeding writer? Did he create the Spencers over at GH, or was that his predecessor? Supposedly he'd pitched a show about a poor, working class family. I'mkind of hazy on that. Did he pitch that shortly before his death, or did he pitch it earlier, only to have it rejected, and thus got ATWT as a consolation prize. Sorry to detour this thread a bit.

No Jason Kincaid was not a Temp, he was a recast that tanked.

I believe Kincaid had just come off a role as Sam Brady on AMC, Opal bf. They probably wanted capitalize on whatever popularity he'd attained on AMC, which was a much more high profile show at the time.

Poor Diana Walker, was her main soap career subbing for various actresses 6 years apart.

I think there were two temporary Carolyn replacements, weren't there? I can't remember.

I think Walker was the only Carolyn replacement. I can't recall any others. Walker's appearance was jarring, since she had to pick up the same scene from the previous day's cliffhanger that Barrett had played. Louis Edmonds did a voiceover during the opening, letting the viewers know that Walker would be playing Carolyn for the day. He referred to her as "Miss Diana Walker" and mispronounced "Carolyn" as "Caroline."

Also on Shadows, they must've had at least four actors playing Sheriff Patterson at any given time. It wasn't a contract role, so I guess whoever they could get to appear was based solely on availability. Vince O'Brien and Dana Elcar were the two most memorable. I think they went back and forth with the role, until O'Brien took over for good.

Yeah, I think the late Harriet Hall (whose Brooke I've never seen though I understand there's an episode of her on YouTube) is more in the category of an Elizabeth Savage as Gwyn on LOV or Elaine Princi as Dorian on OLTL even, full-on recasts who lasted a scant few years and were ultimately replaced by the actresses they replaced.

I didn't realize that Barr had quit. I was only a kid at the time, so I didn't know the exact circumstances of her leaving. In interviews with Barr and with Richard Shoberg, whenever the subject of Barr's "leave of absence" would come up, the inferrence was that she left with the intention of coming back. Maybe that was revisionist history on the part of Barr and Shoberg.

Yes, Fabiani subbed for Zaslow, I mentioned that in my first post in this thread, and indeed, he was a rather sleepy Roger as he was a rather sleepy Jared Chase, King Galen, Barry Shire...

Fabiani also had a one-day role on Dark Shadows. He played Paul Stoddard in the flashback scenes where Liz, played by Joan Bennett, remembers "killing" Paul. Of course, she didn't really kill him, and the character would appear very much alive a few years later, played by Dennis Patrick.

Another one is Kevin Burkhardt(sp?) on GH. He subbed for Jack Wagner as Frisco. Gloria Monty liked him so much that she cast him as Kevin O'Connor a little while later.

Harriet Hall temporarily replaced Julia Barr on AMC in the early 80s when Barr took a leave to tour in a play with Katherine Hepburn. Roya Megnot subbed for her successor on Loving, Lisa Peluso, when Peluso needed to take a break. Also, 99% sure that Patience Cleveland subbed for Jeanne Cooper on Y&R at some point.

RH was such a wonderful show. Even when Pat Falken Smith and Millee Taggart/Tom King were head writing, there was still something magical and theatrical about it. Just a certain electricity that many of the other shows lacked. Maybe it had to do with the fact that it took place in NYC, where I live. Whatever it was, it had a certain spark.

The household ratings were still very respectable for the time (mid-5.0's to around a 6.0) when ABC made the fateful decision to move the show from its traditional 12:30 slot to 12:00 in order to give Loving the cushy pre-AMC spot after struggling in the late-morning time slot. Many affiliates preferred to air local news in that slot instead, and the show suffered. Its ratings dropped in half over night, and never really recovered. The time slot change IS what killed the show. Even Claire Labine said in a welovesoaps interview that when she returned to headwrite circa 1987, the was told TPTB that the show was going to be cancelled.

The show always did seem like a dinosaur, totally old fashioned and anachronistic, next to the other P&G soaps, especially GL and ATWT. Unlike those two shows, it was never able to reinvent itself successfully with new signature characters and families (Reva, the Lewises, the Coopers; Lily, Lucinda, etc, the Snyders) or told daring, current, complex stories that kept up with the times. AW was essentially in the same boat as Search, never really able to find a successful footing in the 80s and 90s, and I think that show lasted way past its prime because it was able to coast on its amazing critical and ratings success of the 70s. Why didn't P&G ever decide to expand Search to an hour? I wonder if that might've made some difference and would've given it the chance to experiment with new characters and take certain risks in its storytelling that could've breathed new life into it.

Thanks for filling in the blanks on some of that.

As to the spelling for Billy you are right. I had been typing up some stuff on Billee Reed from Days and just kept typing Billee the same way.

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Not sure of the date that Marland started but it was in 1976. He stayed until sometime in 1977. He was still with Another World early on in 1976, and then went to The Doctors.

As to the Dancy's Jerry was the very first Dancy in town. He was involved with Penny early in 1976. Then Joan showed up. When Joan got sick or overdosed, I remember Jerry talking to Penny about looking for his mother who was in Switzerland skiing - which I always found weird because they were supposed to be poor and it seemed like something a rich woman would do.

Virginia was then shown in Switzerland reading the paper and there was a mention of Joan's illness in the paper. Virginia flew back to Madison and for awhile it was just shown of the 3 of them. Virginia kept arguing with Jerry about not telling him about Joannie being addicted to drugs. I remember the outlook for Joan was bad and then of course the evil doctor pulled the plug and framed Matt for it.

Then we saw all the other Dancy's. All of the Dancy's showed up in 1976. I know that Margaret DePriest created Jerry. I am not sure if she created Joan or Marland did - I am assuming from your info that DePriest did or he created her to go with the Paul Summers story which was already going on. I know it was started by the previous regime. He started early in 1976 about the same time Jerry Lacy came on as Jerry Dancy.

I think if my mind is not playing tricks on me that Nola was seen before Luke. Luke had been out of town where he met Doreen and he came back when he heard about Joan. Then later Doreen showed up too. Of course after Jason who had not been heard of before that time. Marland created him as a brother to Steve and of course to set up the romance with Nola.

Then of course Doreen showed up. I think even that Mona paid to have her brought to town and then it was revealed that Luke had been her gigolo.

Sara was the last of the Dancys to show up. She was away (forget where) practicing as a doctor. Of course it was in 1976 that Toni was killed and Mike was widowed and thus was set up for Mike and Sara to romance. Then colin showed up and it was revealed that Sara had been his lover while he was married.

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As to MJ, she was first portrayed by Lauren White. Jonathan Frakes played her husband, Tom. M.J. had actually showed up a few months before Marland started but he really explored the character more. Lauren White stayed in the role for almost 3 years and then was replaced by Katherine Glass - who left soaps after this and retired from the industry.

According to the backstage rumors that went around at the time and were later verified in Ellen Holly's autobiography, she was a real diva backstage and very racist. Both things played into her backstage problems at both One Life To Live and The Doctors. She was a very popular actress with fans, but I think no producers wanted to work with her after that - much the same way as none of them wanted to work with George Reinholt after his problems at One Life To Live.

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I never found it strange that Mike & M.J. would get together. I loved them together when James Storm & Katherine Glass were in the roles. The other actors to portray both roles just never had chemistry together. The setup of Mike & M.J. was good as both had been unlucky in love many times and I liked them finding one another - much more than when they toyed with Mike and Nola.

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And yes Mike is one of the most cast roles in the history of daytime but I am not sure he is the winner of the most - Patti Barron, Ed Bauer, Tom Hughes, and Mike Bauer have to be right there with him.

SteveFrame, it's so funny. I was going to start a thread today about the most recast roles in daytime history. You beat me to it LOL.

As for Kathy Glass, I try to take what Ellen Holly has said/written over the years with a grain of salt. She seems to find racism everywhere she looks. She's accused Rauch of racism. She's quoted Slezak out of context in the 1980s about "there being no room for minorities in today's OLTL." Not that racism doesn't exist in the industry, but something about HER claims never made sense to me.

There was a wonderful episode from the mid-70s posted on youtube last year. I was very impressed with the acting and the writing. The characters were getting set to attend Mike Powers' wedding, and there was lots of good, soapy family drama surrounding it. I do remember seeing a bit of the later years in real time when I was a kid, and it was pretty awful. They had a quick succession of writers and producers, some of whom lasted less than a month. The show was getting something like a HH rating of 1.9 when it was cancelled. That's considered so-so now, but back in the early 80s that was pretty atrocious.

If there's any long-gone soap I would LOVE to see, it's From These Roots. There's not much about it online, but I remember reading about in Chris Schmering's incredible book in the 80s. Supposedly, it was very literate, intelligent, and well written. And of course it didn't last very long. Anyone remember this long-lost gem? See wiki link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_These_Roots

Gloria Monty introduced some great things to GH -- including suspense and mystery -- and many of her pairings were so chemistry-filled and swoony that I can forgive her a lot.

But I agree that her constant frontburnering of popular couples is directly contributing to the demise of the genre we see today.

Most producers and writers would probably say that the over-the-top supercouple is what has enabled soaps to survive all these years and that the genre would've been dead long ago if a more subtle approach to writing couples had been continued. Not sure I'd agree with that. I watch these shows DESPITE the supercouples. I've always been drawn to the family/intergenerational/community feeling these shows offer, well at least used to offer. The actual couples have always been secondary with me.

I wrote down the credits for the episode (I loved it THAT much), but there aren't any mentions of who wrote or directed. Just four actor credits (Ron Tomme, Elizabeth Kemp, Christopher Reeve, and Birgitta Tolksdorf) and some other random credits.

I think the Labine/Mayer era of LoL is what I'd probably be the most interested in seeing, too, but I think I like the idea of the show in the early-mid 1960s, with Vanessa moving to Rosehill with Bruce and having to deal with his and his first wife's family. If I remember my reading right, Bruce's son Alan and his first wife's father Henry thought Vanessa was sweet and liked her, but Bruce's daughter Barbara and Henry's wife Vivian couldn't stand her. Barbara went through some trials and tribulations, Vanessa and Bruce went through some trials and tribulations, Alan had his own dramas, etc. Barbara ended up marrying Rick Latimer, had his child, and they divorced (Barbara was supposedly immature and that's also what tanked her first marriage). Barbara left Rosehill and never returned. I think it would have been epic to have Barbara and Meg in town at the same time! Imagine them teaming up against Van!

Another story from the late 1960s/early 1970s that interests me is the love story of Tess Krakauer and Bill Prentiss, played by Gene and Toni Bull Bua.

I remember reading about Bill and Tess. What was so great about these young couples from the 60s and 70s (another that comes to mind that I've read about is Amy Ames and Kip Rysdale on Secret Storm, also Jeff and Penny on ATWT) was that they didn't dominate their shows and that they were allowed to be just another part of the ensemble. I don't think the idea of supercouples dominating their shows has done daytime any favors over the years. I love Gloria Monty, but the super couple trend she started has done more harm than good IMO.

No wonder, Elizabeth Page was a writer on that one! Although... the reviewr on IMDB praised the soap.

Actually, I think she didn't say very nice things about RH in that MIT podcast. What transcripts are you referring to?

Page wrote for "The Catlins"? She just lost some points with me LOL. It was really a bad show. On paper the idea sounded great...an old Southern family living on a plantation-type home...but the execution was horrendous. It was actually kind of fun to watch, just because it could be such a train wreck. Most of the acting was beyond bad. They tried to salvage the show near the end by hiring some popular "name" P&G actors like Barbara Rucker from "Texas", David Forsythe from "Texas," the actor who played Nick Andropolous on ATWT (his name escapes me), Terri Vanderbosh from ATWT, and Julie Ridley from ATWT. At one point, TBS paired with 1/2-hour abridged versions of "Texas," which had been cancelled a few years earlier, just to connect the southern themes. That was probably a ratings disaster, since that experiment didn't last very long.

Yeah, was referring to the MIT podcast. One woman in the audience, a rabid RH fan who went on about how she woke up at 5am to catch the show on Soapnet, was raving about the writing. From what I remember, Alden agreed that it was an excellently written soap. Thinking back now, not sure if she really meant that or was trying to appease what she perceived to be a fan whose life seemed to revolve around those early-morning RH airings.