Anooj

I wonder, at what points during the show’s history was the contract cast largest or smallest? Has anyone tried to count?

It was the earthquake storyline for me. The first ~2 months of 1994 are pretty good, but that laughable storyline heralds the mid-90s downturn era. It was even worse than the Princess Leila storyline, except not as interminably long. Or maybe it was Connor turning into a roofie rapist with Karen (I don’t remember if it happened simultaneously or slightly after). As for the 1999-2002 silver era, the initial jump-the-shark was the superfast mid-2001 breakup of Brooke and Thorne, which was both insultingly rushed and signaled the show was unwilling to evolve its characters. If 1999 to mid-2001 uncharacteristically strong for Brad Bell, the late 2001 through 2002 is more like supremely enjoyable guilty pleasure trash. Then comes 2003, which killed the show.

I’m finished with 1999, now a few months into 2000. All I can say is, 1999 has to be my favorite year of the show so far on this rewatch. Other than the way the Stephanie/James and Eric/Lauren relationships disappeared without an explanation, I find very little to complain about here. It’s like Brad Bell got himself temporarily replaced by a much more competent doppleganger. The younger cast of this era is wonderful, and the scandalous Brooke/Thorne pairing is the icing on the cake, bringing much exciting drama. It remains to be seen how 2000, a year I have strong childhood nostalgia towards, will stack against it, but it too has been very good so far. I did think the exit storyline of Macy’s dad was way too rushed - it makes sense to remove him as Macy’s support structure for what shall happen later in the Macy/Thorne/Brooke triangle, but the execution could have been much stronger.

It’s a bit odd the true culprit never came out. The story leads to Stephanie blaming Brooke for tampering with the paternity test (in accordance with the forged letter), but at some point she just stops accusing her of this for no reason at all. The writing just buries the issue with no explanation. In their later confrontations, Stephanie never lists ”you tampered with Bridget’s paternity test!” among Brooke’s sins, while by every seeming evidence she should, as she distrusts Brooke by default.

I’ve made it to February 1999. The first half of 1998 was very mixed in quality, held afloat mainly by the Rick/Amber/CJ material. But ever since May or June, when Ridge finally picked between his two women, the show’s been good. I love Amber’s pregancy storyline, and the Rick/Amber/Kimberly love triangle. Sheila’s psycho breakdown was entertaining, though it’s sad to see her gone from the show. I also greatly enjoy the Brooke’s Bedroom storyline, and the one about the return of Macy’s lost father. The only real weakness has been the Pierce/Taylor hypnosis storyline. First it consisted of weeks of interminable and repetitious scenes of the two arguing back and forth about the ethics of the program (it didn’t help that the show failed to establish how exactly Pierce’s technique differs from regular hypnosis). Then it went campy with Pierce’s assistant secretly hypnotizing Taylor into falling love with Pierce, which had some fun moments, but all of it got dropped in an unsatisfactory manner. Also not a fan of how little we’ve seen Stephanie/James pair after Sheila left. It seems Bell was only slightly more invested in them than Stephanie/Jack, a pairing that mysteriously disappeared back in ’94. The sense of tragedy over Mary’s disappearance with Sheila is also nowhere to be seen, even though it really should be a part of their relationship dynamic. Overall, I’d rate 1994-98 as such: 1994: 5 out of 10 - Easily the worst year among the 1987-2002 group, barely saved by the generally high quality of the January-February period, some fun moments with Sheila, and the Thorne/Macy Rotterdam storyline. But I hated Taylor devirginizing James due to an earthquake, the Prince Omar saga, the sidelining of Stephanie’s feuds with Brooke and Sheila in favor of the statutory rape storyline with Dylan, Connor becoming the show’s public toilet, the loss of momentum in Sheila’s storyline due to Brown’s maternity leave, and many other things. 1995: 6,5 out of 10 - There’s much garbage here too (Sheila’s disappointing exit storyline, Thorne being schooled in prison life by ”Slash”, the interminably long reveal of Taylor being alive to the wider cast of characters, the overall lack of storyline coherence in the 2nd half), but the best parts were genuinely entertaining: Anthony Armando’s villainy, Rick not wanting to be raised by Ridge, Maggie/Dylan, and Eric’s fake proposal to Sally. 1996: 7/10 or 7,5/10 - An extremely entertaining year, just lacking in overall macro-level storyline cohesion (e.g. the muddled nature of whether Stephanie/Eric are now a couple; Maggie gets framed for Stephanie’s poisoning, but the police inexplicably stop following this lead; Stephanie inexplicably not blaming Brooke for tampering with Bridget’s paternity test past a certain point, despite the letter’s true origin never coming out; Ridge’s sudden pivot to Taylor after Brooke kisses Grant). But if one tuned into a random section of the year, it seems a high quality example of how a soap should be, and is almost never boring. 1997: 7,5/10 - A far more cohesive year than 96, with a near-great first half, but somewhat less entertaining than ’96 overall (the Taylor/Thorne storyline, while interesting at first, eventually grows a bit grating and repetitious, as did the story where Sheila is living with Maggie and James while pregnant). 1998: 7/10 - If we went by just the 2nd half, it would rank above ’96-’97. But the low quality of the first half drags the overall rating down.

Is that scene from the horrendous Donna/Nick/Pam triangle the show tried at that time?

I’m thinking Taylor’s resurrection a few months later caused the show to change course and cut her return short. If true, I wonder what the original plan for this storyline would have been? Amnesiac Ridge getting Morgan pregnant again?

@MaximDid you see my thoughts on 1997 and early 1998 on the previous page of this thread? What would you agree/disagree with?

I’ve reached the summer of 1998. Until now, my impression has been that the show has steadily improved since the great quality dip of 1994, reaching as high as 8/10 in 1997. Sure, I could complain about a few things in 1997 (Claudia got wasted after her initial storyline; Thorne’s feelings for Taylor were a bit too sudden; the storyline where Sheila lived with James and Maggie while pregnant got rather boring; Mike periodically revisiting Sheila despite being on the run from authorities), but overall it was a very strong year. I liked the Thorne/Taylor/Ridge triangle, the mystery plot about who shot Grant, the sham wedding to trap Sheila, Stephanie/Eric/Lauren, and Clarke manipulating his way back to working at Forrester. I even liked the Greenland storyline with Eric/Lauren/Rush, although I had expected to hate it. Maybe 1996 tops 1997 in raw soapy excitement (especially as Sheila got a chance to interact with a larger canvas of characters), but certain problems with overall storyline cohesion puts it somewhat below 1997 for me. Unfortunately, early 1998 has turned out to be a bit of a speedbump, perhaps on par with 1995 levels of quality: - Maggie’s character really got trashed after James left her to be with Sheila, and the early 1998 storylines where she imprisoned Sheila in the house from Psycho, or installed those wires and mikes and such in her house to make her think she’s going crazy, were total GARBAGE. So much so that the latter storyline (and Maggie with it) pretty much disappeared into a limbo. - I have mixed feelings about the twins plotline with Lauren. No way did Rush survive being shot with a crossbow through the chest, and the romance between Lauren and Rush’s good twin brother Johnny was rather dry to me. I did however enjoy the camp aspect of Rush taking his brother’s place to be with Lauren, and Eric rescuing her. But it doesn’t appear like Bell cared too much about the Johnny/Lauren romance beyond the twin storyline gimmick, and it too disappeared in an unsatisfactory manner (come on, why not hire Johnny’s actor for just 5 more episodes for an arc where he realizes Lauren is not over Eric, or JUST SOMETHING?) - Clarke wormed his way back to FC in late 1997, which had exciting storytelling potential, but then he disappeared almost entirely. Sad to see my favorite character wasted in this manner. Does he get anything interesting to do between now and the Morgan saga of 2000-2001? - The Thomas saga was entertaining in 1997, but it got stretched out too much, and made some of early 1998 tiresome, with Ridge having to decide YET AGAIN which woman he wants to be with. On the plus side, I like the plotline of Thorne being neighbors with Macy and Grant, and we’ve finally been introduced to the SORASed Rick/Amber/CJ crowd. The Stephanie/James/Sheila triangle is also starting, and it makes me excited (I remember seeing some if it in my childhood). I know Sheila, Grant, and James are all leaving soon, which I honestly kind of dread - between them and Clarke’s near-absence, it feels like herd is going to get culled too much in the near future. But I know there’s the familiar 1999-2002 to look forward to.

Not counting 2005, my Top 3 would be easy, that’s 2013-2015. The show felt like it differentiated itself after half the core cast was gone, so it felt less like a corpse being raped and more like something to be enjoyed on its own (nonetheless only barely competent) terms. Brill was very entertaining and scandalous, Aly and Quinn brought some of those Sheila vibes, Liam/Hope was vastly improved by Wyatt being thrown in the mix, and the whole ”inevitable designated supercouple” gaslighting with Bridge was gone. Then there was the awesome quadrangle between Ridge/Caroline/Rick/Maya, which surely pushes 2015 to the top spot. After those, it must be 2010. Many parts of the year are crap, but the first few months with Bill & Katie leading FC is a surprisingly competent period for this era of B&B, and then there was the crazy summer period with Brooke and Oliver, Stephen Logan’s manipulation of Pam, and Bridget and Owen sleeping together. Badly written written but campy and fun. Not sure what I’d pick for the 5th spot. I stopped watching around 2017, so I can’t rate the years past 2016. Maybe 2008, at least Eric/Donna was campy and fun, the who-shot-Stephanie plot had some interesting moments, Pam was an entertaining psycho, and the September 07 to September 08 season was generally full of stereotypically soapy twists and turns (but like you said, WAY too much of it was medical drama). But it’s a bit of a pick-your-poison, as that year had lots of crap too, like blatant violations of the show’s history (the backstory of Marcus, Tridge twins retconned as non-identical), character assassination (Taylor ”cannot bond” with her Brooke embryo child, Eric’s never-ending midlife crisis, psycho stalker Storm), unbalanced or biased writing (Stephanie treated as a borderline villanous opponent of artificially propped-up Brooke and Donna), and the quality collapses in the final months with the Rick/Steffy saga that would dominate much of 2009. But I’ll take it over the grimdark 2006 or the utter incompetence of 2009 and 2011-12. So maybe: 2015 > 2014 > 2013 > 2010 > 2008(?)

What would be your Top 5 post-2005 years and why?

I wonder what all your opinions are on the 1997 storyline of Ridge being accused of shooting Grant? I just got to the point where Ridge has confessed to it in order to protect Rick. I’ve actually found it a very entertaining storyline, but I knew coming into it that Rick was responsible, since at least the basic details of the show’s history have been spoiled to be me beforehand. But those of you who saw it when it originally aired, how well did the twist work for you? Who did you believe was responsible for the shooting before it was revealed as Rick? Were the mystery elements of it well constructed when you went into it blind? A few other observations: The concurrent Sheila/James/Maggie storyline is more mixed in quality. 1996 has perhaps been my favorite year in terms of utilizing Sheila, but once the pregnancy happened in late 96, the trio have isolated themselves into a kind of show-within-a-show where they rarely interact with characters beyond their bubble, having the same repetitious conversations over and over again. Now there’s been a premature birth of Sheila’s baby, and one wonders if the writers themselves grew bored with the repetitiveness and wanted to get it all over with, and whether Curtis was meant to be a more long-term character that didn’t work out. The Thorne/Macy breakup in early 1997 was quite contrived and artificial. I do find Claudia to be a rather interesting character, but the show has utilized her rather poorly past her initial storyline, and it’s very strange she was used to break up Thorne/Macy without an actual romance with Thorne in the horizon (which I would have found quite welcome). Ridge/Taylor/Thorne has been pretty interesting so far, though. Eric/Stephanie have a confusing, badly defined relationship status throughout 1996. In late 95, they seemed to be reuniting, ending up in bed and everything. Eric’s house (where he lived with Sheila) was last seen in January or February of 1996, so he presumably lived with Stephanie now, which (I think?) the dialogue even confirmed once the pair got custody of Brooke’s kids. But we were never told if they were now a couple or if the reunion fizzled out or something. Now that the Stephanie/Eric/Lauren triangle has started up and Eric has proposed to the former, the show acts as though the 95 reunion was never a thing, and Eric again lives someplace else (in the very last episode I saw, Lauren is pensive about letting drunk Eric ”drive home” from Stephanie’s guest house). Why did the writers drop ball so badly here? Why this confusing series of non-explanations and retcons? While all that sounds like a lot of complainining, I think 1996 and 1997 have overall been a large improvement over 1994 and some of 1995. I’d rate ’96 as 7/10 or 7,5/10 and ’97 (what I’ve seen so far) as maybe just a tad lower. The writing is not as good as 87-93, nor is there yet that delicious camp quality I remember from the 99-02 episodes, but the good stuff has outweighed the bad for me.

Not actively watching the 2003 episodes (still going over late 1996), but this turned up in my recommendations. The most unintentionally hilarious episode of all time, with cheesy shoestring budget action scenes that make me howl with laughter. Especially Massimo roaring while kicking his motorcycle over a thug😂 It also seems the show was trying to go for an Amber/Deacon/Bridget triangle, which I seem to have forgotten, it’s just a shame it never went anywhere (especially as Amber/Deacon redux could have kept the Little Eric custody storyline relevant for a while longer)

I get the sense the original writing plan may have been to use Ridget to drive a wedge between Eric and Ridge, and thus advance the Massimo paternity retcon story. Beyond just the overall sickness of the plotline, I also have this weird feeling like it was a clumsy attempt to redeem Brooke from Breacon, not by writing a workable redemption story (or better yet, not doing Breacon in the first place, as massive a guilty pleasure as it was), but by dragging down other characters so she doesn’t appear comparatively as bad. The twin storyline was also weird. Seems they were going for a Deacon/April romance, and then one of those unexpected moods struck Bell, so she disappered and the Deacon/Macy thing started, with very little development as I recall. I do remember somewhat liking the latter pairing (other than that pacing issue), but who knows how I’ll look at it this time around once I get to those episodes. There’s also the South America Sheila storyline to look forward to later in the year. Utterly inept garbage, but it did make howl with laughter at how terrible it was. I’d like to hear your thoughts on Macy/Thorne/Darla in more detail.

I got the distinct impression it may have been Mike Guthrie. He even ”hypothetically” confessed it to Sheila, who recorded the conversation on a tape for blackmail. Sheila did take advantage of the situation to get closer to Brooke, at minimum, so it may equally well be her, and thus Mike’s confession would be a case of him falling for wordplay. I’m only less than midway through 1996 in the vault, so it’s possible it gets clarified at some point which of the two did it, but my understanding is that the show would never confirm it either way.

I’m talking about things that happened on a soap a minimum of 10-15 years ago, but which other characters are still in the dark about today. On B&B: - In 1991, Stephanie forged a letter, supposedly from Eric, where he gave his wife Brooke permission to cheat on him with Ridge. Upon Ridge and Brooke doing the deed and discovering Stephanie’s scheme, they confessed the betrayal to Eric, but never revealed anything about the letter or Stephanie’s role in it. Eric still doesn’t know about the letter, nor a previous incident where Bridge had sex on the lab floor. Only Stephanie knew about the lab incident, and only Brooke knows she knew (but not how, or that Blake Hayes was involved). - Stephanie’s and Clarke’s affair in 1987 is not known about by anyone. - Sheila spiking Macy’s drink (1993) - Mike Guthrie’s role in stealing the designs from Forrester (1995), or his (hinted at, never confirmed) forging of the letter that led to Bridget’s paternity being tested again (1996). Also the (hinted at) killing of Dr. Peters as part of the latter scheme. - Very few characters (Rick, James, the model Samantha) know about the first Eric/Taylor affair in 1995. They might conceivably have revealed it during their later 2013 involvement, but I don’t remember any dialogue to that effect. - Jessica never learned about Dylan’s relationship with her mother Maggie (1995). Borderline doesn’t belong here, as all three characters were not on the show for long. - Only very select people (Ridge, Stephanie, Eric, Caroline, Lt. Burke, Deveney Dixon, Ridge’s therapist friend) learned about Thorne being the one who shot Ridge in 1988.

I guess we should be lucky Brad backed down from doing the lolita storyline between Eric and the 16-year old Caitlin in 2004. Rumors say John McCook objected to doing the storyline, and who can blame him? Makes me morbidly curious how it would’ve been received, though.

In entertainment value, probably: 2000 > 2002 > 2001 > 1989 > 1993 Accounting for actual quality: 1989 > 2000 > 1993 > 1992 > 1988 (though I might pick something else over the last two on a different day)

2002 is an interesting case of love-hate. It’s easily one of the show’s Top 5 years in raw entertainment value, what with the Massimo drama & Ridge going over to Spectra, Brooke’s affair with Deacon, and Sheila’s return. All of it was very riveting to watch. But each of those plotlines had a questionable flipside: The Massimo retcon was perhaps a mistake in hindsight even if it brought great drama (until Ridget, anyway), Breacon ruined Brooke as a character by taking her scandalous tendencies way past the moral event horizon, and Mary’s instant 15-year SORAS felt like the show’s continuity was collapsing in on itself (especially since the Tridge kids weren’t SORASed at the same pace, and she was thrown in a love triangle with her former babysitter who was by no means that greatly aged).

For me, Bradley’s best era is mid-1999 through mid-2001, while at least 1996 and 2002 are very enjoyable trash. 1994 and some of 1995 represent a major fall in quality compared to the Bill Bell era, but I’ve actually rather liked what I’ve seen of 1996 so far through the vault (I originally began watching the show from around the 1998 episodes onwards). 1994 and 2003-2008, maybe some of 2010, are bad, but relatively competent compared to what come after. 2013-2015 were a relative improvement over 2009-2012. Late 2010 through 2012 and everything from late 2015 onwards is really terrible. I’ve not watched the last few years.

I’m at March 96, and I have to say the show has - at least so far - really rebounded from the bad state it was in during 1994 and some of 1995. Bridget’s paternity reveal, Sheila’s storyline and her obsession with Brooke, and Clarke’s return are all interesting storylines. The jury’s still out on the Sly/Jessica thing (since I’ve heard a lot of criticism of how that storyline is handled), but so far I’m reasonably (but somewhat less) interested in it. Dylan’s stripper storyline seems promising, and unlike Jessica, I don’t find him boring. The writing quality isn’t quite on par with the Bill Bell era, but just like the early 00s, it’s never boring and lots of dramatic stuff keeps happening at a quick pace. We’ll see how the momentum keeps up. The second half of 95 wasn’t honestly as bad as many here have said, either. It has severe problems with story cohesion, as it actually has many dramatically meaty things to it (Maggie/Dylan, Rick’s obsession with reuniting his parents, Eric’s fake proposal to Sally) that come and make their mark, but fail to have a satisfying follow-through. Stuff like Taylor’s stalker or the Maggie/Connor relationship simply disappear without explanation. If I picked a random 2-3 week segment from late 95, I’d say the show is actually pretty good and a vast improvement to 94 and early 95, but it’s the overall coherence, the big picture, that’s lacking. Stuff flung at a wall to see what sticks. If I had one major complaint about 96, however, it’s the muddled nature of Eric & Stephanie’s relationship. They looked like they were reuniting in late 95, even getting bedroom scenes, but since then the show has left us in a limbo as to whether they’re now a couple or if the reunion fizzled out or got retconned out of existence. I’m frankly not even sure where Eric even lives, as his house (the one where he lived with Sheila) hasn’t been seen in 2-3 months, but the show hasn’t explicitly stated he now lives with Stephanie either. The writers really dropped the ball here.

What even was up with that 2006 storyline? It’s like Bell was experimenting with turning Ridge into a Sheila-like villain (very misguided), and then got cold feet and retconned it as a ”misunderstanding” or somesuch (making it even worse). I remember RM even complained about the storyline in some interview, as he previously did about Ridget. There’s also the circumstances surrounding Bridget’s conception, where Eric apparently slept with Brooke while she was drunk, and the latter couldn’t remember doing it. Then in 2009, Taylor slept with Ridge while he was either drunk or on sleeping pills (apparently she somehow didn’t notice), after the Rick/Steffy thing had strained the relations between Bridge. Then Thomas did a similar thing to Caroline II in 2015 (maybe early 2016?) and got her pregnant, which had great soapy potential if the show had actually treated it as rape. Imagine a storyline where Ridge claimed the kid as his, and out of both anger towards his son and a desire to protect Caroline (maybe even subconsciously fearing losing her to Thomas, as illogical as that may be), faked the paternity test to show himself as the father. Then it would all come out years later and provide great drama. But Bell chickened out (assuming he was smart enough to conceive what I wrote above, which is doubtful), retconned the nature of the event, and actually made Caroline and Thomas a couple🤢

I guess the writer’s strike is also why the plot about Ridge exploring franchising behind his father’s back disappeared into a limbo. The start of Clarke/Margo was also rather abrupt and out of nowhere, but not sure if that’s down to the strike or just the need to quickly work in Lauren Koslow’s IRL pregnancy.

@MaximFor a challenge, what about the Top 5 worst storylines of the classic 1987-1993 period? This is actually pretty hard, but I guess I’ll go for: - Donna/Mark (1987) - Not too interesting outside of Rocco’s jealousy and the camp value of a ”teenager” played by a man with such a deep voice. Also essentially reset-buttoned. - Donna/Thorne (1989-1990) - A timewaster between Caroline/Thorne and Macy/Thorne without much attention spent on it by the writers. - Ridge/Taylor/Storm love triangle (1990-1991) - Storm’s recast didn’t work for me, and something else about it was lacking that I can’t put my finger on. Ridge/Taylor/Blake was a major upgrade. - Felicia/Zach (1992) - Not a bad storyline really (the gambling addiction stuff with Jack is pretty compelling), but too much of a repeat of Felicia/Jake, in that Felicia again falls for a guy with a troubled past he’s secretive about and so forth. - The 2nd will-Sally-hire-Clarke-back-or-won’t-she plotline (1992) - Not bad either, but it feels like all the momentum got sucked out of the Clarke plotline after the highly dramatic scene where Sally and her crew cornered him and Kristen in the bedroom. Instead, we get a repeat of the summer ’91 plotline where Sally isn’t sure whether she can trust him again or not, and while the scene where Sally finally throws Clarke out of Spectra is amazing, it feels odd that this rehiring plotline was thrown in - If Clarke was on his way out of the show, wouldn’t it work better dramaturgically to move more swiftly to Sally & Clarke’s final confrontation, rather than the show doodling around and then bringing him back to the company for 5 minutes? The lack of resolution as to what happened to Clarke/Kristen was pretty odd too (though she would mention on a later ’93 visit that they’re together)

Bradley Bell on B&B: Brooke/Thorne/Macy triangle Little Eric’s paternity/custody drama between 1999-2003 (a great umbrella story that the lives of the 1998-2004 cast of young characters directly or indirectly revolved around - dropping it MASSIVELY damaged the show in 2003) Relatively speaking, the Ridge/Caroline/Rick/Maya quadrangle of 2014-2015 caused a very brief Indian summer for the show as well, but it would all come crashing down. Not an outright great plotline, but unexpectedly strong for this era of the show.