mikelyons

Roy Winsor did not create Search for Tomorrow or Love of Life as is often stated in the press as well as soap history books.

Agnes Nixon created SFT and wrote the original 65 episodes (13 weeks). Irving Vendig was called in to replace Agnes and her remaining script, but he couldn't write fast enough, so those ended up airing with his work starting afterwards.

John Hess created Love of Life. He conceived, created, and wrote the initial scripts for LOL prior to it finding a sponsor. John Hess was screwed out of his on-screen creator credit by Roy Winsor. 

Erica Kane is not in the first episode of AMC; she debuts in Episode 10. 

1 hour ago, 1974mdp said:

I loved the show until about a year ago. Now, I just watch it a couple of times a week. I think they still take a lot more storyline chances than any of the US soaps would ever dare to do. I thought the Eric/Maxine storyline was well-done. But, the show has gotten a little depressing lately for me. It seems everyone is ill all the time! I was disappointed that Honour was written out as I thought she was the most interesting of the new characters. Now, Dave seems pointless. I can't get into the hijinks stories either such as the bank robbery.

I dislike hijinks every time. Honour was becoming interesting, but then she up and left the village.

Maxine has always been one of my favorite characters, however, I don't think her topical storylines are very well executed. I also loathe the way they gave her an insta-family when Trish left town. 

10 minutes ago, LondonScribe said:

Replace the name of characters, and this statement could more or less be about 2009-2010 after Bryan Kirkwood left and Lucy Allan took over the first time.

I don’t watch Hollyoaks, so I say this from a slightly unqualified position, but I’m pretty staggered that Lucy Allan appears to have learned nothing in the decade or so since she abruptly left. 

She is a more experienced and tenured executive and producer, so unlike last time, I think the Hollyoaks fans will have to grin and bear it for longer this time around.

I didn't want it in 2009-10. I'm fully aware that they've had a massive cast overhauls, but this one feels different. Maybe it's because we're losing strong characters and good actors to relative nobodies. 
 

Lucy's been there a while now, she has her people in place, her vision is being fully executed, and the show is embarrassing to watch.

I've watched Hollyoaks since 2016 or so and, man, it's been a rough ride since Bryan Kirkwood stepped  as down executive producer. Lucy Allen's tenure has been a boring, muddled, unfocused disaster. I think one of the problems stems from most of the storylining team and producers being fired when Lucy Allen took over. Goodbye to institution knowledge! I barely recognize the characters. We've been inundated with new characters Ethan, Dillion, Norma, Lexi, Dave & Co.,  and the insufferable Rayne. Endless cast exits (DeMarcus, Serena, Honour, Imran, Verity, Zara, Grace, Damon, Juliet, Celeste, etc.) paired with juvenile plotting, high jinx, and shenanigans have made it a chore to watch day after day. I fear the heart and soul of the show has been ripped out, never to return. 

9 hours ago, dragonflies said:

 

I came here to write this.

1 hour ago, ironlion said:

Blaming OJ (and shift in viewing habits) as the sole reasons for the genere's decline is a way for the higher ups and actors to avoid taking accountabilty for poor story telling, visuals and budget.

This. All of this. 

"4,500 words of dialogue, 250 times a year: How ‘The Young and the Restless’ is made"

LA Times article about the firing (link bypasses the paywall): https://archive.ph/jxep2#selection-2091.0-2106.0

It's awful.

Found one!

Here's a breakdown and corresponding script from Episode 206 of Port Charles.

Breakdown: https://www.mediafire.com/file/maakljcf47j61hi/PortCharlesStoryOutline.pdf/file

Script: https://www.mediafire.com/file/pp8oewxaujjq1zl/PortCharlesScript.pdf/file 

12 hours ago, Broderick said:

I couldn't view the Fair City outline.  Unfortunately it says, "File not available."  

I'm sure the breakdowns vary from show to show (or from era to era).  The breakdowns written by headwriters are probably brief, concise, and are more like an email message to the dialogue writer:  "Kay, honey, here's how I want you to do it." 

The outlines written by individuals who function strictly as Breakdown Writers are likely far wordier and far more detailed.    

Fair City has been re-uploaded.

Here's a breakdown from the Irish soap opera, Fair City from 2009 (Series/Season 20, Episode 138).

As always, this is for educational purposes. Let's not send it around the internet!  

https://www.mediafire.com/file/o0o9ibx36ztrnlm/Fair_City_Series_20%2C_Episode_138_Episode_Breakdown.pdf/file 

15 hours ago, Broderick said:

That's probably right.  Lauralee Bell says that one of her strongest memories of her dad was his "ever-present red pen", for making correction notes on scripts.  

Kay Alden said that when she and Jack Smith were still at Y&R (during Lynn Marie Latham's reign of terror), she and/or Jack read every completed script and marked it.  

Miss Alden said she learned to ALWAYS keep the next script to be edited in her purse, because one time she got into an elevator without a script, and the elevator got stuck between floors.  She was trapped in the elevator without a script to edit and panicked over the amount of editing time being lost.  

Please do!  

I've posted one... I think I may have one from a US soap, but I'll check.

23 minutes ago, Broderick said:

I was thinking, "That's REALLY overkill for a breakdown!" 

Usually, the breakdown script just gives the setting ("INT. DEVON'S APT") the characters ("DEVON, ABBY, AMANDA"), and a brief description of the scene to be scripted ("DEVON and ABBY have made love.  Resting on sofa. AMANDA walks in.  FOCUS on her shocked reaction".)

 If the headwriter has produced the breakdown, he/she might include a specific passage of dialogue to be used.  Otherwise, the dialogue is entirely up to the scriptwriter. 

That's been my experience with them -- just a brief roadmap for the scriptwriter.   

That's pretty accurate. There's an example of Agnes' breakdowns for AMC in ALL HER CHILDREN. They're VERY short and succinct. From what I remember of Bill Bell's Y&R breakdowns, they're a little more involved with notes to the writer. I remember one where he wrote to Kay Lenard, "Now, Kay, honey..." with a note about how to write the scene and where he wanted to go with subtext, etc. Irna's breakdowns were involved, but a great roadmap. Any writer could take her breakdowns and write a script. If I can find a breakdown this weekend, I'll share it.

I've said privately that going to an hour was the worst thing that ever happened to soaps and I stand by it. Why?

Prior to the hour (and going back to the days of radio), the HW would submit a six month or yearly story bible to the ad agency, sponsor, and/or network during their big story conference. That's when the direction of the show would be decided and everyone would head home.

In radio, Irna would dictate her outlines and those outlines would be sent to her script writer. They'd return their scripts, the rep for the agency/sponsor would give her notes, and then they'd finish off the script and send it the producer. Elaine Carrington (Pepper Young's Family; Rosemary) wrote her own outlines & scripts. The Hummerts were producers and agency reps, so they were the first and last word.

When the soaps were fifteen minutes and thirty minutes, the radio process stuck. Irving Vendig wrote the scripts and breakdowns for SFT as did Agnes (before she was fired). Even when ATWT launched as half an hour, Agnes wrote the scripts from Irna's outlines. One script writer; one HW. Claire Labine noted that she and Paul would sometimes write their own scripts for Love of Life and Ryan's Hope, but they did use script writers. As it's already been stated, Bill Bell wrote his outlines and scripts for Y&R in the early days, before he found other script writers. However, he always wrote his outlines as did Agnes in the early years of OLTL and AMC.

Going to an hour famously blew up a system which worked and gained so much viewer attention. Intimate, tight stories about a family or a few people in a town under the vision of one writer and a small team of script writers worked. The hour doubled storyline, gave networks more control, made every show hire a team of associate head writers and breakdown writers, and more script writers. Head writers were so removed from their stories by the time the episodes aired that they bore little resemblance to the intention (as stated previously). 

Y&R was able to maintain script quality for so long because Kay Alden, as associate head writer, edited every single Y&R script from the 70s until she was fired. Ron Carlivati doesn't even read the Days scripts; his script editor edits and approves them. Brad Bell barely provides oversight of the daily scripts. He simply tells Michael Minnis the scope, Michael bangs out a rough outline (which says give 20% to Brooke & Ridge, 40% to Thomas and Hope), and the writers have a lot of leeway when it comes to writing their episodes, hence the mess you see on screen. (I used to have a bunch of B&B outlines, but I threw them away...along with ATWT & GL scripts from 2004. Big mistake.)

Soaps do their best when the HW has a singular vision which is executed via episodic scripts. The UK soaps allow the series producer to set the story for the next year and their team of storylines work on breakdowns, but their pool of script writers is small which allows for quality even when their storyliners (who are coveted by primetime) move on. Hollyoaks fired their entire producing team, storylining team, and most of their long time script writers two or so years ago and it's suffered ever since. 

This show is a joke. It once had a budget of over $100m a year (that was into the 21st century) and now we're reduced to firing the breakdown writers? Shame.

Brad Bell fired the actress who played Sally from B&B, but Margo Wain loved her, so she put her on Y&R. Now, thanks to Josh, it's the Sally Spectra Show. I find it unwatchable & I don't see it getting any better.

7 minutes ago, BoldRestless said:

Are breakdown writers full time positions? Why don't they just make it a contract gig with no benefits? Or is that against the union's rules?

I'm assuming Griffith isn't taking on the extra work for free, so he's being paid something, but not as much as the invidual writers would make? And that's allowed by the union? 

It's a bit muddled. Breakdown writers take the long term story from the head writer and create daily outlines of the show which the dialogue writers turn into scripts. Usually, there are five outline writers because one writer works on one outline per week. Some soaps have had one or two outline writers; others have had six or more... It just depends on the budget of the show. If the breakdown staff is eliminated, then the HW would - in theory - receive a check for each breakdown they write.

Is Sony/Josh allowed to do this? Well, yes. If their contracts were up - or their contract cycles were up - then it's a totally legal move. Smart? No. Legal? Yes. 

3 minutes ago, mikelyons said:

Breakdown writers (as of December 2022):

Natalie Minardi Slater (Second most senior writer on Y&R after Janice Ferri Esser, who's still writing dialogue.)

Jeff Beldner

Michael Conforti

Marin Gazzaniga

Simone Hawthorne

 

 

Sara Bibel confirmed on Twitter she's one of the fired breakdown writers.

Breakdown writers (as of December 2022):

Natalie Minardi Slater (Second most senior writer on Y&R after Janice Ferri Esser, who's still writing dialogue.)

Jeff Beldner

Michael Conforti

Marin Gazzaniga

Simone Hawthorne

Just now, Tonksadora said:

Is Sara Bibel one of them?

I believe so.

2 minutes ago, BoldRestless said:

The good news: the show will be one man's vision.

 

The bad news: Josh Griffith is the man.

He thinks he's Bill Bell.

Just now, edgeofnik said:

Gosh, even The Wrap isn't knowledgeable about daytime:

'Production sources at the other two remaining daytime dramas — ABC’s “General Hospital” and Peacock’s “Days of our Lives” — told TheWrap that their shows still have breakdown writers alongside script writers.'

 

 

I found out about it minutes before I made this post. From what I understand, The Wrap threw together their article...and it shows...

7 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

^^
Is this the news?

Yes.

Natalie Minardi Slater, Kay Alden's protege, is one of the fired writers. Josh has driven Y&R into the ground and I fear this is the final nail in its coffin. 

There's HUGE backstage news coming from one of the US soaps either today or tomorrow. Hold on to your hats. I promise you will not be happy about it.

On 9/1/2022 at 10:47 AM, SteelCity said:

Is that why I'm still longing for Davetta Sherwood?

Davetta Sherwood was a breath of fresh air as Lily. She firmly stood toe-to-toe with Victoria Rowell and Kristoff St. John while reminding us that Lily is Drucilla's daughter. 

Soap actors do have the benefit of receiving residuals when a soap airs overseas. The B&B actors basically have a second source of income from international airings of the show. Then again, if you're only in 78 episodes a year, even that only goes so far... I can see it only making a difference if you're in 3-4 episodes a week with a $5,000k guarantee. One of the B&B actors lives in a mansion in the Hancock Park area of Los Angeles which is close to the studio. Beautiful house, so the actor & their spouse must be doing just fine!

From a 2008-2010 Corday contract for a new character on the show (I will not divulge who it is, but, yes, I have a copy of their contract).

This talent was paid a minimum of $105,300 to appear on Days. 

Subtract 10% of this person's agent...

Subtract 15% for this person's manager...

Subtract 25% for taxes...

This person on a network TV show could have netted $52,650 in their first year on Days BEOFRE factoring in their living expenses. 

Corday vets may have been well paid, but unless a newbie was a fan favorite and on 3-4 times a week, they weren't really making a ton of money (in TV or soap terms).

Compensation per episode:

            (a)       First contract year:               $1,350.00

            (b)       Second contract year:         $1,450.00

            (c)       Third contract year:              $1,550.00

            (d)       Fourth contact year:             $1,700.00

8.         (Redacted)

9.         Number of average guaranteed episodes per week:

            (a)       First contract year:               1.50 per week

            (b)       Second contract year:         1.50 per week

            (c)       Third contract year:              1.50 per week

            (d)       Fourth contract year:            2.00 per week

I spoke to my sources: Josh went fi-core with the WGA during one of the writer's strikes which is why Amanda is listed as the head writer of Y&R. Other than paying dues and receiving union benefits, Josh doesn't exist to the WGA anymore. He is still the official, credited head writer of The Young and the Restless.