Greg's GL

I think it's wrong to constantly stop law abiding residents and to treat young men like criminals when they have not done anything illegal.

It IS wrong. And I don't believe that anyone would willingly submit to these searches "if they lived in a high crime area". That's baloney. Stopping random people on the street to question/frisk/search them for no reason is illegal. Period. I wouldn't want to live somewhere that it ain't.

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I'm speechless.

I've been away from this site and particularly this thread for too long so I'm just gonna jump right in. The fact of the matter is if President Obama were not African-American, this birth certificate bullshit would have never been an issue. Period. I think the entire thing is rooted in racism and the fact it's still an issue after they've gotten what they wanted makes me believe it even more.

I will say that I find it hard to believe that these people are respresentive of the run-of-the-mill Republican. I have some Republican friends, some on this very forum, and they are nowhere near as extreme as the people in this clip.

This is what fiscal conservatives are doing with your tax money.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/19/house-republicans-500k-defense-marriage-act_n_851035.html

If the GOP continues to chase after these "morality" issues, they will not get the support of the general public in 2012. It's a good thing that the mainstream press has not picked up on this story.

Only the fringe, evangelical Christians are interested in these types of actions.

The Susan/Daisy one still drives me insane. At best, the girl didn't age for seven years.

As for Leah -- I think the only way they could've salvaged that one was to age her siblings/contemporaries, too. I didn't particularly want a new crop of teens running around, but if Jude and Zach had been made 15 or so, with James having been aged anyway, I think I'd have had an easier time swallowing it. It was still egregious, but at least I wouldn't have had to pretend she didn't exist.

Why did they age her, anyway? Was there ever any indication of what they were going to do with her as a teen?

Good question, Michael. As I recall, around the time DK/EW came up with this story, Rick and Mel were having problems and he was secretly boinking Beth at the Beacon. Once they Mel discovered the affair, I think they brought Leah in to help reconcile her parents? Who knows. There were some scenes in the Bauer backyard with the three of them tossing the football and all. Then a period of time that she didn't speak to Rick much and blamed him for the problems in their family....

That's the only "story" I've ever thought they used Leah for. If anyone has anything else, please let me know.

BTW, I think your suggestion that they should have aged Kevin, Jason, etc. was a good one. And IA it would have done some good in "covering up" the damage done by aging Leah.

In one sentence, I would say that being an often fun, lively couple with nevertheless relatable, identifiable issues doesn't make the treatment of those issues cheap or shallow. There was enough depressing drama from other couples.

This is why I love these SON discussions, jfung. It's great that you related so much to Remy/Christina and their story. I've had my own couples - mostly on GL - that I loved and was thoroughly invested in their sotry as you were with RemTina. So I understand where you're coming from with your post.

However, for this viewer, these two were directionless and yes, shallow. JMO.

You could have cast a three time Oscar winner in the role of Leah and the character would still fail. Leah's rapid aging destroyed or changed so much history it wasn't funny.

Mel and Rick never had any chemistry together and I was glad that Rick was finally freed from that shrew. It was really painful watching these two together.

ICAM that they never should have aged Leah the way that they did. I was simply saying that since they did it, they should have cast the role alot better than what they did so it wasn't a complete and utter disaster. But you're probably right - it would have still failed because of the destruction done to the history of the show.

DK/EW never did pay much attention to character aging/de-aging anyway. Look what they did to Susan/Daisy.

Shrew? I take it you weren't a fan of Mel's!

I still don't get what they did with Leah. She wasn't even in the last 2 months of the show was she? She might have aged and died, like Dolly the clone, for all we know.

LOL!

Leah being SORASed the way she was was a huge mistake. Part of me thinks that DK/EW didn't realize the mistake until they cast the part (badly, I might add) and started to integrate her into the show. Then they back-pedaled or just pretended like she didn't exist.

As much as I HATED that SORASing of Leah, with a strong actress it could have worked. Yvonna Wright was perfect as Mel - beautiful, compelling to watch, talented. It should have been very easy to build a prominent African-American family around her. But they botched it with Leah. And pairing Mel with Cyrus (of all people) at the finale just didn't work for me. I don't even remember Mel talking about her daughter toward the end of the show.

Mel and Rick were boring, but I always liked them together. It would have been interesting if they would have stayed together and started the next generation of Bauers. However, I can't complain that Rick ended up with Mindy! :-)

Remy's only interesting story - and believable one with LSV in the role - was his fathering Ava's baby and rivalry with Bill. Actually, that was also some of the only good acting MRS ever did in the role of "Ava". Why TPTB ever decided to move on from that rivalry and kill the baby made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Christina is/was a waste of space and her relationship with Remy was ill-defined at best. The only thing we knew about them was that their marriage was never "real". I didn't see any evidence that any of the writers were trying to do anything with these characters other than cheap, shallow stories.

Fortunately, I did not see that scene with Marah. Sounds horrendous! :-(

The Rauch years for the most part were entertaining for me as well. Cynthia Watros alone made GL must-see TV, even if the story was out there. If any other actress would have been playing that role, it wouldn't have been considered so successful. And I think Rauch was actually able to get the ratings ticking upward at that time.

Wendy and Maeve had alot of chemistry as Mother/Daughter, IMO. The way Wendy would just seem to be seething hatred toward her was incredible. But the character of Dinah was dumbed down under B&E to be desperate for the love of a man (surprise) in Hart. I always thought that Dinah should be the one Hart was chasing after - NOT the other way around. Although it did create one of more interesting rivalries on the show between her and Cassie. I remember at the time literally hating Cassie's guts and rooting for Dinah all the way. By that time, B&E had turned Cassie into a goody-two shoes and that just bugged me. After Watros left, I do think that Rauch and B&E upped the crazy factor for Dinah.

After Wendy left, I didn't think they could ever recast that role, but kudos to EW for finding Gina.

Arguably, "Reva Shayne" is arguably the most widely known "DIVA" from GL, but there are any number of women that could have ended up in the same position, isn't there? Nola Reardon (who we discussed in the other thread), Vanessa Chamberlin, Dinah Marler, Blake Marler, Harley Cooper (damn close), Alexandra Spaulding, India von Halkein, Rita Bauer and even perhaps Carmen Santos (although I didn't care for the mob in Springfield).

Of those, it would have been so interesting to see what India's story could have become had they had tied down Mary Kay Adams. Why was she always so hesitant to stay on long-term?

Carl, I think you're onto something in regards to men and women's view of Rita. I don't know if you're generalizing, but I see your point. She was an adulterer. A "whore" as Potter said. I think that's what my mother saw in the character - someone doomed to never be faithful to her husband, no matter what. But I saw (and I hate to keep repeating myself) a person torn between what she wanted in life and what she actually had, and trying to reach the "want".

I never did see her on Moonlighting - and I loved that show! I'll have to see if (hopefully) YouTube has something.

And as much as I couldn't stand EW/DK's GL, they did keep their women strong until the end. Dinah Marler, Reva Shayne, Vanessa Chamberlin. Come to think of it, Rauch did tend to tear down the stronger women on GL, didn't he? To begin with, MK was sidelined. Reva was turned into someone whose life revolved around BUD. Annie....well. Need I say more. I loved CW though. Even back in her heyday, Burt Bauer was never pushed around either.

Can you imagine what these women would be doing if Sheffer ever got his hands on this show??

Wow, Carl! Thanks for posting this and no - I had not seen this before! It's good to know that others found "Rita Bauer" so compelling. My mother never liked the character and was glad when she left - I think for the reasons that AP says in the article. But I just .... ugh ... found her so fascinating. She was so flawed, interesting.

That was a time when some characters were truly written with shades of gray. So sad to see in today's shows, the writers have to hit us over the head with "She's a crazy girl! Look what she did!" stories.

Man, how I miss Rita.

Yes! Zachary "The Angel" and Meta. Yeah, that was a stinker. LOL!

Somehow it never occurred to me until just now discussing the rejuvenation of the Bauers that they could have done that with Meta. But probably not - I just googled the character's history and she only had one child that died in a "freak accident". Although she was married a few times.

After Charita Bauer died, it really bothered me that it took them a little while to address it on the show. I think your idea to bring Meta on at that time would have been a good one. The Bauers needed someone like that to fill the void that Bert's death left in the family.

Other than Meta, it appears that the last child of Mama and Papa Bauer - Trudy - was childless as well. Hmmm.

Good points, Paul. I know alot of people fault some of the later writers because of the "missing" Bauers, but you're right - the next generation seeds were never sown in the 70s.

Of course Rita could have been used to develop some of the next generation off-screen. And I think that Long attempted a Bauer retcon with Johnny that wasn't entirely successful. Alot of people didn't consider him a "true" Bauer. And then there was the periphery Bauer godson in Kelly that Marland created.

It does seem strange that Mike (in particular) and Ed were not more prolific. I liked Ed, but Mike was always the "Hero" of the family - moreso than the alcoholic Ed. And it escapes my memory now which regime brought in Meta Bauer - was it Rauch? or Liabson?

Regardless, Rita always fascinated me and I've often wondered about her character's legacy on the show to others. And didn't LK also show up on Santa Barbara at one point? Hmmm.

Thanks for starting this, Paul. I still find it hard to believe GL is gone! :-(

One character that always fascinated me from the time I started watching in 1977 or so until she left was Rita Stapleton-Bauer.

From her past with Roger, marriage to Ed and affair with Alan, I always loved the character.

I've always wondered why Lenore Kasdorf left the show (around 1981?) and why the role was never recast. And in my hopes for rejuvenating the Bauers, I always thought she could have been the way to do it. Perhaps when she left town, she was pregnant with Ed's twins (boys) and when they returned to town they would be young Bauers - the next generation of this most important family to GL.

What do y'all think?

I wouldn't say that I'm afraid to post what I feel in this forum - never was. No one should have to apologize for believing in what they feel - politically or otherwise.

I made no bones about my dislike for the current state of GL. Even when everyone else was singing the praises of Jill Lorie HACK, I disagreed. And no one spat on me because of it. I was probably one of the last holdouts for MAB's Y&R, and no one called me out for that. This is no different.

For instance, I think Obama needs to grab control of the health care debate. It's been hijacked by sound bites from the Republican crazies, and to make matters worse, the sound bites aren't even accurate. The media is feeding on this like a rabid dog on road kill and someone has to tone down the misinformation. He is failing when it comes to getting the plan out to the people and explaining what he wants to do. It's actually not a bad plan, IMO. And something has to be done for all the people that have lost jobs and can't afford COBRA. What about the working poor? How can they afford good health insurance? There is a desparate need for this legislation, but the message is getting lost. The bill will fail unless the White House takes drastic action to speak the truth about their plans and speak it directly to the people.

So hopefully some discussion can begin without the name-calling and pouting just because someone doesn't agree with your point of view.

Man, it's a shame to see what this thread used to be and what it is today.

Too bad that everyone couldn't get along and discuss/debate politics without it getting so personal. It's a sad thing. But I think it speaks to the state of political discussion as a whole in the US. No one wants to see the other side and what's worse - they don't have to. The right watch FOX and the left watch MSNBC. The right listen to Rush and the left to Air America.

No one discussing differences, just reinforcing your own beliefs while thinking the "other guys" are idiots.

<sigh>

Mr. Fraken is been declared the winner of the Senate seat....so....

I am not liking this filibuster-proof majority already. There are several issues that the Dems have mis-stepped lately, and if they don't watch themselves it will be hell come next year.

Aside from that, the Republicans will have a hard time convincing people of their "family values" mantra, as they keep falling prey to temptation. Like a lot of us. They should have never claimed to be any stronger - morally - than anyone else is. So both parties could be gettin a bite in the ass on election day 2010.

Kind of dovetails with the above post regarding House ethics, etc., but what is your general feeling about Nancy Pelosi and her claim she didn't know about the waterboarding, yet it has not been revealed that she DID know about it. Memory lapse? Convenient forgetfulness? Dementia setting in?

Well, it looks like we're in for the first of what will likely be many ethical lapses on the part of Democrats, resulting in casualties amongst the leftist rank and file. First up, Nancy Pelosi.

This woman is a disgusting liar with little credibility to spare... Whatever reputation she made have had has been blown to bits with her antics over CIA briefings on waterboarding. This certainly isn't the sort of "change" we were to expect in the era of complete Democratic control in Washington.

What rationale... what excuses could possibly be offered in her defense? If any of my friends on the left here have something to offer here, I would love to hear it. If anyone here thinks this stupid twit should be thrown to the wolves, I would love to hear that, too. Do any of my left-leaning friends here feel comfortable trashing this extremely foolish hag?

Your contempt for this woman is amazing. I wonder what exactly has she done to garner these kind of remarks about her (disgusting liar, little credibility, stupid twit, foolish hag) from you. It's interesting that someone of such supposed high morals and "values" would stoop to name-calling to get a point across.

While you ponder that, let me just say that it's too early in the investigation to call her guilty. There are some rumblings of hearings on this matter and I think we should let them take it's course. NP has said she wants some sort of special counsel or investigation - but that's too far. Let the Congress investigate and see what they find. It's all evidently a matter of record.

If she is found to be guilty, Brian, I will say she needs to go. However, if she's not, would you apologize in this thread for the remarks you made about her? Hmmm.

Sorry to get in the middle your little spat with Roman (for the umpteenth time). Continue on with that if you must....

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heathe...ater-board-dick

Good article, Roman. Thanks for posting it. And I have to agree with almost all of what Ventura had to say:

1. GWB = Worst president in our lifetime

2. Cheney = Coward

3. Colin Powell = War hero.

4. Waterboarding = TORTURE

I find it ironic that Cheney, the draft dodger, was once Sec of Defense and Mr. Hardnose. He's never experienced war. He's never experienced waterboarding. Yet he can sit his big ass behind some desk and have the nerve to act like an expert on these matters? GMAMFB.

I can't stand him. I agree with Wanda Sykes - I would teach my kids to get into the car with the stranger if given a choice between the two.

I thought the dinner was funny. The pres proved to be quite a comedian. ("Michael Steele in the hizzeee") I thought Wanda was "the bomb". I love her style of comedy. Of course, many did not get it and quite a few Sunday morning press shows had a lot to say. David Gregory on the Today show this morning was commenting on how uncomfortable the pres and first lady looked while she was telling some of her "Rush" jokes. Really? I mean it is comedy and you can either like it or not. Isn't that what comedians do, play the room?

So now I see an article about the WH keeping mum on Syke's performance Saturday. Are they for real? This was entertainment. You can like it or not. Are we going to judge the president according to the jokes he laughs at? How utterly ridiculous.

I fuckin LOVED that "MS in the hizzeeee" the Prez did. Very funny.

Wanda Sykes was terrific. The Rush Limbaugh as the 20th hijacker strung out on oxycontin was awesome. I don't think that anyone should be harranged or prosecuted for what "happens" during these annual get-togethers. It's supposed to be funny, irreverant, controversial. Why get your panties in a wad about it? The fact of the matter is: IT WAS FUNNY. Let the President have a few laughs - what the hell.

OTOH, I remember last year - or the year before - Colbert got some heat for his appearance at the dinner as well. Some people just have to stop taking [!@#$%^&*] so seriously and RELAX for one day out of the year!

All are welcome Greg 'specially you!

Thanks, girlfriend!

The dinner was pretty funny.

The rest was pretty darn funny..esp the Rush comment and Hilary/Mexico comment.

We don't agree on much, Kwing. But we agree on this. I thought it was f-u-n-n-y as hell I tried explaining the Hilary/Mexico joke to a couple friends, but I don't think I did a very good job. They just looked at me like I was crazy.

"She pulled me in for a big 'ol hug and kiss!"

I like this....

Obama wants credit card overhaul

Credit card companies are predatory. In the boom times, they were handing out the plastic like it was going out of style. What are they doing now? Raising rates on cardholders for any reason they can pull out of their ass. Reducing credit lines. Closing accounts. And they got money from the Feds. WTF?

This one is up for grabs... I really want to hear UCLAN's feedback on this story, as I know she works in education in California, but I would also like everyone's opinion on this...

Education in California is heavily dependent right now not just on passage of statewide ballot initiatives funding education May 19, but also on the stimulus money to avoid deeper cuts across the state...

The Obama administration threatens to rescind billions in stimulus money if Gov. Schwarzenegger and lawmakers do not restore wage cuts to unionized home healthcare workers.

Any thoughts on this LA Times story? With education said to be such a concern of Obama's, would he really deny California teachers and students necessary funding in order to shield union workers from the affects of the state's sour budget?

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-he...0,4592200.story

Hmmmm. I know that there are rules when it comes to stimulus money - we have some of the same things happening here in FL. Gov. Crist is supposed to ask the Feds for an exception because one of the strings that comes with the money are the amount of cuts the legislature has made to state's budgets the last year or so.

I could go either way on this one. First of all, what makes you think that the stimulus money that will be rescinded is for education? I didn't read that in the article. They aren't taking it ALL back - just a portion. Maybe that portion of the money is tied to something other than education. Secondly, there is a part of me that thinks the Feds should not dictate to the state how to trim their budgets, even WITH the stimulus money.

Apparently I'm torn. So I'll just kick back and see how this plays out with everyone else.

Wanda Skyes is Marvelous!

She's awesome. Love her.

Because people like GregGL and so many others have constructive stuff to say and add so much to the conversation and I do not want to miss that.

Steve Thanks bro. Same back at 'cha.

And the way he responded is why I can't get on a page wit him. Maybe he'll wake up and we can finally start a dialouge where WE BOTH ARE LISTENING to each other, instead of this BS.

Well, Roman. You're still the bomb in my book. You can talk to me anyday buddy. And speaking of the bomb, Wales just went MIA after the election, huh? Talk about someone that added a lot of value to our discussions. Man, I miss him/her. If you're out there, Wales, please jump in anyday now. We miss ya!

Just a random thought about posting on SON in general. Why is it that you can type "fucked" and it's not bleeped out? But if you type "fu.ck-ing" it is?!?! Jo no say.

Revisionist history? Puh-lease... I never said how WONDERFUL (in all caps, mind you) the last 8 years were. The key to the last 8 years is that Bush kept us safe from another attack. Will Obama? I have my doubts. I had big issues with Mr. Bush and some of his policies and I have stated it time and time again (a lot more objective than you and your 3 incher for Obama) -- or did you not read those posts? Probably not... because I posted it in English rather than Roman's language of Lame.

I don't respond to your links, Roman, because you don't respond (at least in any intelligent way) to stuff I post. I would love to engage you in intelligent debate and pleasant conversation, but you are too busy spankin' it to Obama pictures that you don't have time for anything else.

Dude, wash your hands when you're done. And why are you so angry, anyways? Did you get your ass beat a lot in school or something? If so, I'm sorry about that... must be painful to live with that, then have your ass verbally beat regularly in the forum here.

<<hugs and kisses>>

Ouch. <<Looks to Roman>> Is Brian a bit grumpy this morning or what?!?!

>>hugs Greg, but is mindful of his boner and stands back about 2 feet<<

So, my friend... what has Obama done for the Gay and Lesbian community lately? Or, actually... What did he promise during the campaign?

And moving on to another topic... WHY HAVEN'T YOU MESSAGED ME??? I'm beginning to think you love Roman more than me. >>sniff<<

<<hugs my buddy Brian back but pulls him closer when he notices his boner>>

This is getting way outta hand with all this boner talk! I can't concentrate on anything else now....

Obama hasn't done anything for the GLBTs lately. Nada. But he's been in office for 5 months and there are more pressing issues at hand than GLBT ones, IMHO. I have faith that he will address them eventually. But when there are things as fucked up as the economy and healthcare that affect a much greater portion of the population, it makes sense to tackle those first.

Campaign promises? Let's see. Repeal of DADT, adding sexual orientation to the federal hate crimes bill....and uhhhh....I think that's about it.

I will message you, I promise! I want to hear more about this boner of yours! No, seriously...I will get around to it. You do know, my good buddy, that YOU could always email ME first and I'd respond. You get that, don't cha?

Once again, you have it wrong. My BONER started the night of November 4th, 2008, and it'll stay hard for the next 4 years.

Ummmm. Wow. I've forgotten my entire train of thought now...

I'm actually interested in hearing from someone who actually knows their ass from a hole in the ground.

I'll stick with UCLAN, Steve, Greg... hell, the list of thoughtful, provocative posters goes on and on... but sadly stops with you.

>>kisses<<

Now, now, now Brian. That's a little harsh, don't ya think? My friend Roman is just as good as debate as anyone here. Of course, I don't know how he can concentrate on anything else while sporting a boner for the last 6 months!

Ohhhhh, we'd make them be ready for us! Contrasting views, healthy debate... We don't always agree, UCLAN, but you had my vote from day one! I don't know where Steve lives, but if he isn't a Californian, he should fly out and do lunch with us. I bet it would be fun!!

I'm outta the loop on this one obviously. Guess I'll have to start my own political party. Whose with me? We'll completely pummel the Bri/UCLAN/Steve party at the polls, y'all!

Ooooo... the most interesting article of the day!!

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jtsimpso...ays-than-obama/

Why Reagan Was a Better Friend to Gays Than Obama

Interesting. Also interesting is how the blogger couldn't complete his thought without using the words "fag" and "queer".

If Reagan did stand up to Prop 6, then good for him. I didn't know that myself. I was, however, aware of his statement that he couldn't condone an "alternative" lifestyle. Not sure how that makes him a friend of gays.

And oh yeah. There was one other little issue that began under his watch - AIDS. He did nothing about it for his first term because it was only affecting us fuckin FAGS. It was called "The gay cancer" if I remember correctly - before the term AIDS was coined. Reagan couldn't even say the word until a year into his 2nd term.

Let me think.....oh yeah, he was a REAL GOOD friend to the gay community.

Sidenote: All this boner talk is making me horny!

You and me both, MTSRocks. Roman's boner, Brian's boner, David Vicker's boner....mmmmmm. LOL!

I think President Obama is making some positive steps regarding the budget. Of course, the right is critical of it already. I wonder, where was all this fiscal responsibility when they were in control?

Obama wants to trim $17B from budget

And this article I found interesting. Seems some of my ilk are getting a little impatient about the President moving on issues of importance to the LGBT community. It's been what, 5 months?!?!?! Give him a chance, people!

Obama pressed to engage on gay issues

Thoughts?