Patrick D

9 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Such a missed opportunity.  I think in an earlier time writers would have written a good triangle...Vanessa getting back to baiscs and going head to head with Alan with help from Billy, Matt and Beth being attracted to each other not because of age, but Matt feeling left out and Beth at the pint in her life where she felt lost also. I would have had Beth start an abuse counseling business, and maybe Matt helps her with construction on an abuse victims home and thing progress slowly, with not vixen's or villian or "old" women.

Yes, that would’ve been much more interesting. I’m not sure the writers ever delved into who Beth really was after Beth C started playing her. She always seemed to serve plot to me. I thought if Mindy (preferably Kimberley Simms) came back and built a connection with Matt, it would have been more conflict for Matt/Vanessa since Vanessa was close to her (vs the Dinah/Vanessa/Matt retread of Blake/Holly/Ross) and vixen Beth. And then throw Nick in since he and Beth never interacted, if I’m remembering correctly. 

6 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Agggh.. Guiding Coopers...with Lucy in her "Harley Spunky" phase!! I HATED endless scenes of Nadine and Jenna making a fool of themselves over Buzz.

Haha, they tried really hard with Lucy. Why GL killed off those two actresses and kept Buzz till the very end will always be a mystery. 

Just came across this article with many cast members reacting to Jerry’s passing:

https://soaphub.com/general-hospital/news-gh/guiding-light-and-one-life-to-live-vet-jerry-verdorn-dead-at-72/amp/

On 4/30/2022 at 8:18 AM, Tonksadora said:

When the supercouple began there weren't any battling fanbases fighting for their couple to get more airtime, etc. Doug & Julie were the first supercouple, literally the first to be dubbed so by the press. And, Julie was a Horton by blood if not by name. And, the couple was an extension of the Horton family as Doug's gateway in had been that he was Bill's prison cellmate.

Back in the day it wasn't just GL's Betty Rea who cast experienced actors. All the NY soaps did. Pete Lemay & Paul Rauch would go to plays together & they would always be on the lookout for possibles to cast.

I think in general when shows get cancellation orders that a question is always asked, who do we want to bring back for the final days. I don't think that question is asked when plans are being made for regular time upcoming stories. Maybe it should've been asked.

Agreed.  I think new characters are necessary and important to keep the canvas of the show dynamic.  But it felt like Guiding Light had so many characters at the end (aside from a core group and returning favorites) without ties to core families.

On 4/30/2022 at 9:44 AM, Mitch64 said:

 

On 4/30/2022 at 7:53 AM, Patrick D said:

I think soaps get it wrong when they focus on the idea of super couples. It gets tired quickly, and as was already mentioned, the stories get more ridiculous and they’re often isolated with maybe one other character in a triangle. And it repeats and repeats.

Agreed, and it also effects the budget....showcasing Zimmer constantly ( and I DO like her..not that MUCH of her) gave her too much power and allowed her to write her own ticket...when its an ensemble you can say "Here's the deal, if you don't like it we have Vanessa, Holly, Alex, Amanda...whoever over here with story...."

Yes, exactly.  I liked her too but I think that's why the early 90's worked so well when she left.  The show was an ensemble and a lot different characters/actors were featured.

On 4/30/2022 at 9:44 AM, Mitch64 said:

On 4/30/2022 at 7:53 AM, Patrick D said:

Betty Rea cast trained actors - when did she leave? That might’ve accelerated the decline? Because the caliber was still there with some, but never again with an ensemble like this.

It was a huge loss (Rae) but Rauch said to Mimi Torchin I believe that they had to compete with Skinamax (remember those bad old soft core porn movies..) so they had to cast model types...(as if anyone is watching soft corn porn at 2 in the afternoon and if they are they arent going to turn it off to watch models fully clothed in pastel business suits...) Remember Jim Lemay went from being played by a normal looking guy to being played by that muscle guy who I believe was in some of those movies...but he was still boring and no one cared when he died in that fire (R.I.P. to the actor tho..) 

Compete with Skinamax!  haha.  That tells you a lot right there how the network execs weren't interesting in building/retaining their fan base.  

On 4/30/2022 at 9:44 AM, Mitch64 said:

On 4/30/2022 at 7:53 AM, Patrick D said:

The show at that time was also darker, sexier and moodier. Rauch was praised for brightening the look and feel in the later 90’s but I think it exposed lower production values and made it less intimate and consequently, less exciting.

Agreed but JFP went way too dark...look at the Bauer set, it is bright for Christmas and then they kill Mo and the house is constantly shot dark..okay, storyline reasons there but the whole show was in shadow, along with Mo dying, the recasts, Alex being a cartoon shrew schreeching, Buzz taking over the show and all the women allowing this troll to obsess them..it all became depressing. But agreed on Rauch, the blinding lights on every damn set constantly looked terrible matched with the pastel clothes. The Spaulding mansion with Alan there and Alex gone should have been lit dark and more masculine, Carmen's house should be dark and isolating as her life should have been potrayed...etc.

True, it got pretty dark at times under JFP.  And the Frank/Marion story didn't help.  They did lose a lot in those recasts of key players.  I thought Buzz worked at the beginning as a foil but definitely not for the long term.  Still can't understand why or how there was so much emphasis on the Coopers.

On 4/30/2022 at 9:44 AM, Mitch64 said:

 

On 4/30/2022 at 7:53 AM, Patrick D said:

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that in the end, so many characters from this era were brought back. If they knew that was how to end it, why didn’t they try to return to what worked earlier and keep the show going?

Agreed...we spent so much time in Gradyville...why? Though I think Wheeler struck a good balance during her years, bringing people back like Van and Matt when needed for the story, she attempted to get Simon, Alex was always around (though admittedly not written correctly) and not driving story (which both she and Alan should not have been doing at that time..) Why they couldnt have just brought back Mindy earlier for Rick (his only successful pairing beside Abby IMO) leads me to believe Wheeler had better intentions then Gautman, she just didn't know how to pull it off. 

That makes sense.  Glad she brought back Vanessa and Matt.  I wondered if they chose not to put Kinkead back on contract or she didn't want to work that much.  And yes, two characters that weren't ever brought back to their full potential were Alan-Michael and Mindy (Kimberley Simms).  And they should've never let Ross go (RIP JVD).

On 4/30/2022 at 12:00 PM, Khan said:

Agree.  (By the way, @Patrick D, hello and welcome to the board!)

And I agree with the comments on the lighting and wardrobe during the Rauch era.  He had those same issues throughout his tenure on OLTL, too.  Especially toward the end, when it seemed to be a race between the set designers, the costume designers and the lighting designers as to who could be the most garish in their choices.

Of course, Rauch was replaced by John Conboy, who tried to remake GL into Y&R or CAPITOL and blew the budget to smithereens in the process.  Personally, I don't feel Conboy's aesthetic would have worked for GL, not even if he had had a better HW working with him.

Thank you, @Khan!

On 4/28/2022 at 2:26 PM, bboy875 said:

Reading the last few posts made me think of the great early 90's. Characters and relationships were well defined, they drove story, the show was an ensemble, there was no Josh and Reva, there was widespread acclaim and the ratings were up. Why did they change what worked? 

The early 90’s were the best. The characters and relationships were very well defined and stories involved a lot of characters. A soap is at its best when it’s about all kinds of relationships: lovers, families, friends and rivalries. I think soaps get it wrong when they focus on the idea of super couples. It gets tired quickly, and as was already mentioned, the stories get more ridiculous and they’re often isolated with maybe one other character in a triangle. And it repeats and repeats. Curlee and Demorest’s stories were rich, well-drawn and complicated because they’d involve other relationships and dynamics. It extended the stories in more plausible and interesting ways. I just recently watched again the Alexandra reveal to Billy about Roger’s affair with Mindy. Alex, Mindy, Billy, Roger, Vanessa, Nick, Nadine, Fletcher, Hamp, Holly and Ross. Really great actors, almost all 40+, excellent writing and everyone with clearly drawn motivations, perspectives and relationships. 

Betty Rea cast trained actors - when did she leave? That might’ve accelerated the decline? Because the caliber was still there with some, but never again with an ensemble like this.

The show at that time was also darker, sexier and moodier. Rauch was praised for brightening the look and feel in the later 90’s but I think it exposed lower production values and made it less intimate and consequently, less exciting. Having a darker vibe lended to the melodrama, as did a lot more closeup shots because the actors were skilled at filling each moment in scenes.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that in the end, so many characters from this era were brought back. If they knew that was how to end it, why didn’t they try to return to what worked earlier and keep the show going?