Broderick

On the Wings of Idiots was definitely one of Traci's epics, because that's about the most patronizing title I've ever heard of.  We used to laugh about it on the old Mediadomain boards, that Traci was flying high, "on the wings of idiots".  About the same time, Francesco Quinn's character was publishing Master of the Dust and The Secret Flower.  Nina Webster was working on A Cry in Thin Air.  Cole had one too -- Hope in a Bottle (?)  They were ALL writing best-sellers for a while there.  

My recollection is Naked At Dawn was first, and it was written under the pseudonym "S.M. Brand".  It was loosely based on her collegiate experiences in Europe, and it annoyed Stuart Brooks.  The next one was In My Sister's Shadow and was a hatchet job on Leslie, which led to more contention between Lorie and Leslie.  

On 3/25/2023 at 9:26 AM, ironlion said:

So exactly why was Paul fired?

He wasn't "fired".  He was dropped to recurring status.   The show could use him as often (or as rarely) as they wanted to.  

He created a situation on Twitter which made TPTB less inclined to use him.  

49 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

It might also be to do with budget.

If the guest stars and recurring actors don't appear they are not paid.

With contract actors they are probably trying to keep them to their guarantees as much as possible. So if they can avoid having them onscreen that can help.

As the gala continues some characters who are supposed to be there may not be seen in an episode.

They have spent extra $$$ for this, so I guess anywhere they can make savings...

Wonder if there will be any bump in the ratings? Hopefully , otherwise they'll be able to justify the threadbare production values -'See, we spent extra and it made no difference'

I'm sure the most difficult part of writing the episodes is the financial part.  ("I'd like to use Leanna Love here, but we're already paying Jill and Mamie, so we've only got $13.49 left in the budget!")  

So now Paul is retired.  I keep waiting for them to say, "Back when Paul was still living ..." 

The porn theme was fine when it first appeared.  But after a few years, when it became evident that it was too expensive to update, it became comical that dead people (Ryan and Malcolm) were still spinning around and greeting us warmly.   

(Eventually they caught on they could delete a dead character & drop in a living one who'd already been photographed, but for months -- or years -- the dead ones were still spinning around.)  

8 hours ago, j swift said:

Watching the new intro gave me flashbacks to the sets of the 1980s and I was hoping that someone with expert recall could fill in some of the missing pieces.

IIRC Paul had his offices (with the slanted window) in the same building as Victor Newman.  I don't remember them referencing Newman Towers at the time, in fact, I have a vague memory that George Rawlins developed the building for Ra-Tech, and Paul moved in when he consulted on security for George. 

Jabot was across the street in another highrise

Then there was the building with Top of the Towers (or maybe that was at the penthouse floor of Victor's building?)

And finally, there was the highrise condo building where Victor lived with Leanna, and Jill moved there after her divorce from John.

All of which is to say that Genoa City had a limited number of high-rise buildings in the 1980s and did not resemble the bustling metropolis shown in the most recent version of the opening - correct?

 

I sure don't pretend to have expert recall, lol.  

In the first episode, Sally McGuire famously said, "Kind of a drag, isn't it.  Being stuck in a place like Genoa City.  God, I feel so restless."  In the same episode, the truck driver told Brad Eliot, "Genoa City -- nice-sized town, but I prefer St. Paul.  That's where the family is."    

We were given the idea from Day One that Genoa City was a fairly *small* to *mid-sized* Midwestern metropolis, not nearly as big as a Chicago or even a Detroit or Minneapolis.  

In the early 1990s, Victor Newman advised Hope Wilson that Genoa City was comparable to Wichita, Kansas -- population about 400,000 in 1990, with a metro population of around 500,000.  

The high-rises that I remember being featured from early on were the Genoa City Hotel and Genoa Towers.  There was a restaurant called "The Embers" in one of them (Genoa Towers, I believe).

Lorie Brooks moved into a penthouse, circa 1978, which was located at 247 East Chestnut.  Lorie's unit was #2500, indicating her apartment was on the 25th floor.  Vanessa Prentiss jumped to her death from the balcony in 1981.  During Lorie's trial, they gave the address about a zillion times -- "247 East Chestnut #2500".  This was an inside joke of Bill Bell's, because his co-writer, Kay Alden, resided in real-life at 247 East Chestnut #2500 in the Streeterville neighborhood of Chicago. 

From Lorie's balcony, we could see a cluster of several high-rises -- not a Chicago by any stretch of the imagination, but more a Wichita.  

Jabot's corporate offices were on 4th Street.  The "corporate suites" were on the 12th floor, indicating the building was likely 12 stories. 

Kevin Bancroft, an architect, was hired to design a new high-rise (Newman Towers) in 1981.  Much ado was made about Newman Towers being 35 stories, among the tallest in the city.  The address given for Newman Towers was 7800 Melrose, another Bill Bell inside joke -- Y&R was recorded at 7800 Beverly Blvd in Los Angeles. 

Paul moved his office into Newman Towers to "upgrade his image".  As someone mentioned, Nikki took an apartment in Newman Towers to "have a place in town to spend the night" when she "didn't feel like driving back to the ranch"; instead, her apartment became a love nest with Jack Abbott. 

Victor and Diane, during their marriage, lived on the top floor of Newman Towers. 

The show did a few remotes in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, back in the 1980s and early 1990s.  Evidently the production staff felt Pittsburgh mirrored what we were seeing on-screen -- cold and snowy, good-sized Rust Belt metropolis.  I believe Pittsburgh's population was around 500,000 at the time, comparable to the "Wichita-sized city" Victor described to Hope.  

In the early 2000s, there were some "establishing shots" filmed around Charlotte, North Carolina.   Not sure why they selected Charlotte over Pittsburgh.  Probably figured found a couple of buildings there on which "Newman Towers" and "Jabot Cosmetics" could be airbrushed easily.  

If they planned to fade from black & white to color, they should've made sure everyone wore vivid colors (like Melody Thomas Scott's red dress).  A lot of them are foolishly wearing black or white.  

Having someone fade from "black & white" to "black & white" is sorta redundant.    

I want to find something positive in all that pontificating.  But I can't.  

20 hours ago, YRfan23 said:

*.) Kelsey Wang (Allie Nguyen) : 1

 

Glad they've finally committed 100% to a youth storyline!!  

It's kind of hard to imagine having any kind of anniversary without Miss Rowell, as Dru was such a vital character throughout a well-remembered decade (the 1990s), and Shimmy's Malcolm made the biggest splash of any newcomer since Lorie and Snapper back in the 1970s.   

I'm sure Eileen Davidson wanted something "dramatic".

To me, her very best scenes are more of the "everyday variety".  For instance, there's one scene where Terry Lester's Jack is giving her a sermon about how worthless Brad Carlton is, and the whole time Jack is talking, she's fanning her face with a manila file folder like she's burning up in frustration.  When Jack finally leaves, she exhales so hard her bangs rise up off her forehead, and she takes her thumb & index finger and does the "gun-to-the-head" suicide gesture.

There's another scene where Terry Lester's Jack is presenting her with a dossier about Tim Sullivan, and she tosses it into the fire, rolls her eyes, and prances out of the room. 

Those are the types of scenes where she REALLY excels in my opinion.    

39 minutes ago, kalbir said:

She wasn't annoying in small doses.

She annoyed me from the get-go 

Although her presence wasn't "all-consuming" at first, the way she became later, it was the constant barrage of compliments that I found so eye-rolling.  No one could ever say, "That little girl gets on my nerves.", or "We've had better models than Cricket."   Everyone had to spontaneously compliment her each time they encountered her, and it was just too much at times.  

Jeanne Cooper said it best.  Paraphrasing -- "Her father placed her in an awkward and potentially damaging situation, but she rose to the occasion."  I'd agree with that.  She steadily became a better actor as the years went by, but there was such an OVERDOSE of her during a certain period of time, and her father wrote her character in such a saccharine and predictable manner.  

It could've easily backfired even worse than it did.  She would've always been fine as a supporting character, but as the central heroine -- nope.  Not when she was 18-20 years old.  And those scenes where she would offer wise advise to older characters or smile politely while that little pregnant teen Mollie said, "Oh, Cricket, I wish I could be beautiful and popular like you!!"  Yuck.  

37 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

And LLB had a hard time saying “Model” too. She pronounced it as “am I really gonna be a “MADALL”   

59 minutes ago, BoldRestless said:

 

That's true. I didn't know that about LLB! Thought it would be one of her Jabot Junior visits where everyone tells her how much more beautiful she is each time they see her and how well she must be doing in school. I think she was on the swim team too! I wonder if that first appearance was just as an extra vs. her first as "Cricket."

Yeah, Lauralee appeared as an extra a few times in the very late 1970s/very early 1980s, because she wanted to be on Daddy's show.  Bill Bell arranged with John Conboy for her to board an airplane, put her little suitcase in the overhead compartment, and take a seat directly behind Kay Chancellor.  She was about 10, lol.  

She was bitten by the acting bug after her few little stints as an extra.  

She started appearing as Cricket around 1983.  Eileen Davidson & Terry Lester had the thankless job of saying, "Wow, Cricket is a WONDERFUL model.  She's so beautiful, talented, and incredibly sexy."  Michael Damian was assigned the job of walking in and saying, "What a beauty!!"   

I think the reason they're not doing that (the first scenes) is that often the actor's first scene didn't focus on his/her character, but on someone else entirely.  If I remember right, Braeden's first scene featured him hovering over Brock Reynolds like a vampire, announcing he wanted Cathy Bruder tried as an adult rather than as a juvenile.  Later on, he began having scenes that were more about HIM, but that first one was entirely about Brock.  

Ditto with Tracey Bregman.  Her first scene was a showcase for Traci Abbott, lol.  

In Lauralee Bell's first scene, she was a nameless little girl who sat behind Kay Chancellor on an airplane.  

24 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

And do I see 4 extras in the background? They'll have to cut back after this extravagance.

That's probably Josh Giffith's brother and sister-in-law, hobnobbing with Amanda Beall's parents.  lol.  

25 minutes ago, Kane said:

Part of a B&B breakdown - Ridge's level of arousal was apparently of vital importance:

 

lol.  That's great!  I watched that episode a while back.  Jack Smith was the dialogue writer.  The way he handled Ridge's "arousal" -- which was stressed so much in the outline -- is he had the models (2 of them) preen and pose in their cruise wear, right in front of Ridge, taking off their sarongs & tossing them toward Ridge while he batted his eyes and grinned.  Vivian, meanwhile, recited a planned press release for the cruise wear, referring to the swimsuits as "hot, smoldering, revealing every alluring curve".  Then Caroline entered the office and reminded Ridge she wouldn't be sleeping with him before the wedding, but "good things come to those who wait."   

Right, I can't imagine an outline would have "cut-to", "TC", or "one-way" in a scene description -- those are terms advising how the cameras will capture the action -- and wouldn't include any dialogue other than some specific passage the writer is insisting on including in the script.     

4 hours ago, Taoboi said:

 

There have been (and still are actually) shows that live, die, and maybe thrive on their breakdown writers  when the HW is not good. A good HW might be able to do it, but JG is too burned out to pull that off. 

 

I think Josh Griffith is pretty terrible.  And while I'm sorry the breakdown writers lost their jobs, they didn't seem to be doing anything at all to liven-up a drab show.  

The stories themselves (which supposedly come from Josh) are awfully dull.  I'm hesitant to even call them "stories".  The scene breakdowns and dialogue, unfortunately, are about as mechanical and cut-&-paste as the "stories" are.  

I couldn't view the Fair City outline.  Unfortunately it says, "File not available."  

I'm sure the breakdowns vary from show to show (or from era to era).  The breakdowns written by headwriters are probably brief, concise, and are more like an email message to the dialogue writer:  "Kay, honey, here's how I want you to do it." 

The outlines written by individuals who function strictly as Breakdown Writers are likely far wordier and far more detailed.    

21 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Didn’t Agnes notoriously try to edit actual scripts/dialogue as well? Patrick Mulcahey said she was like a school marm at Loving giving him copious (and annoying to him) notes in red ink on his scripts. 

That's probably right.  Lauralee Bell says that one of her strongest memories of her dad was his "ever-present red pen", for making correction notes on scripts.  

Kay Alden said that when she and Jack Smith were still at Y&R (during Lynn Marie Latham's reign of terror), she and/or Jack read every completed script and marked it.  

Miss Alden said she learned to ALWAYS keep the next script to be edited in her purse, because one time she got into an elevator without a script, and the elevator got stuck between floors.  She was trapped in the elevator without a script to edit and panicked over the amount of editing time being lost.  

25 minutes ago, mikelyons said:

Any writer could take her breakdowns and write a script. If I can find a breakdown this weekend, I'll share it.

Please do!  

1 hour ago, janea4old said:

Ack, I posted this earlier and it turns out it was the WRONG information!  This is NOT a breakdown. This is NOT a breakdown.
*It's a summary* *It's a summary*.
Ryan tweeted a correction later on.   

https://twitter.com/SourceRyan/status/1628998600121360390

 

 

 

 

 

I was thinking, "That's REALLY overkill for a breakdown!" 

Usually, the breakdown script just gives the setting ("INT. DEVON'S APT") the characters ("DEVON, ABBY, AMANDA"), and a brief description of the scene to be scripted ("DEVON and ABBY have made love.  Resting on sofa. AMANDA walks in.  FOCUS on her shocked reaction".)

 If the headwriter has produced the breakdown, he/she might include a specific passage of dialogue to be used.  Otherwise, the dialogue is entirely up to the scriptwriter. 

That's been my experience with them -- just a brief roadmap for the scriptwriter.   

53 minutes ago, mikelyons said:

I've said privately that going to an hour was the worst thing that ever happened to soaps and I stand by it.

An hour of original drama is too unwieldy for one person to control creatively on a daily basis (IMHO).  Bill Bell was lucky in 1980 when his show went to an hour, because he'd been training Kay Alden for 6 years, and she'd learned his "style", what he wanted from a scene, from an episode, from a story arc.  He said later that he could review a script and honestly couldn't tell if Kay had written the dialogue or if he'd written it himself; she'd learned to impersonate him that well.  Most writers aren't fortunate enough to acquire a protégé who can follow their thought process that well. 

But it came from writing side-by-side at his dining room table and him looking up and telling her, "That's overwritten, Kay.  Simplify it.  Cut those six lines into four lines. Try this ..." 

Even so, Y&R fell apart when it went to an hour, because the process was now spread among Bill Bell, Kay Alden, Jack Smith, Elizabeth Harrower, and a couple of others. 

Things didn't get smoothed-out again until Sally Sussman was hired in 1982 and brought some fresh ideas into the room, and learned to write in the same style as Bell and Alden. 

I can't even imagine being Harding Lemay when "Another World" went to 90-minutes. 

9 minutes ago, Aback said:

It does look like an incredible waste of time.

I agree -- an absolute waste of time and energy.  That breakdown is WAY overwritten.  I've seen others that say, "Lily and Devon disagree, and Lily is hurt by his attitude."  That's it.

I expect Josh Griffith and Amanda Beall will write shorter, more concise outlines than the example presented here.  Plus they'll have the outlines themselves at the weekly Executive Meeting, which means the "thrust document" can be omitted from the process entirely, saving even more time and energy.  Also the second weekly meeting (to review the outlines) will be unnecessary, since the outlines were presented at the first meeting instead of the (absurd) thrust document.          

8 hours ago, ma746 said:

I don't know if it's of any interest, but in Australia, the soaps are written in a very similar way.

The department normally consists of the following in this order of hierarchy:

• Script Producer - has overall control over the story and script
  • Associate Script Producers - one oversees story room, one oversees scripting
    • Storyliners - two or three in the story room with the Associate Script Producer
    • Script Editors - two or three, rotating weekly, overseen by Associate Script Producer
      • Script Coordinators - the cogs that keep the admin turning

Every few months, the team have a story conference with the Series Producer who oversees the day-to-day production. They're on the same "level" as the Script Producer. In that story conference, the overall arcs are discussed, working with the stories that the Script Producer wants to tell.

On a week to week basis, the following happens:

• Week starts with a fleshing out of the stories and what/who will appear in what episodes (only so many sets/locations allowed per week, and cast are contracted to 2 or 3 eps a week);
• The story team then plots the episodes scene by scene into 'plot notes', which are sent to freelance writers. This process tends to use coloured post-it notes to identify the stories and the process can take up to 2 days. Process normally involves running all the 'story beats' (ie. the scenes) and then weaving them to get the best flowing episode. This process can also see short-run stories conceived by that team - the script producer normally delegates this process to their associate and the storyliners;
• When the writers come in for their meetings, they are briefed scene by scene and then go away and write a 'scene breakdown' (SBD) which is a 10 page document, that puts into prose what will happen in the episode, using the plot notes that have been plotted by the in-house team;
• Once the SBD comes in, the Associate and the Script Producer both edit it, before it goes back to the writers to write their scripts. They have two weeks to write the scripts. The 'block' (the 5 episodes for the week) are then edited by a script editor and 'over-edited' by the Associate and Script Producer, before being released to production through the Script Coordinator.

Overall, seems like a similar process to the US model, but the 'breakdowns' (scene by scene) are actually written by the freelance writers themselves and edited by the 'head writer' (our Script Producer).

Edit: The Script Producer normally has meetings with the Head of Drama/Network Script Executive where their long-reach story arcs are approved or denied. They all get to read/comment on the SBDs. However, my understanding is that it never normally reaches a network level when it's been scripted.

That's very interesting (to me).

Based on what I gathered from Kay Alden's discussion of her experience circa 2005, the cumbersome process had basically turned a Head Writer into "an overworked editor" and "an overworked proofreader", who went around with a briefcase full of tentative thrust documents, approved thrust documents, tentative breakdowns, approved breakdowns, script drafts, and completed scripts -- all from different timeframes.  You might be writing a thrust document for the first week of April, then editing breakdowns for the last week of March, then proofreading a completed script for the third week of March.  It was too entirely too mechanical and seemed to be stifling creativity entirely.

I can understand the network and SONY wanting to know the long-term story material.  But having to present a weekly "thrust document" to executives from the network and SONY seems downright comical to me.  What could they possibly contribute to it?  And then having to present breakdowns to those same executives a few days later is equally absurd.  Again, the executives' input is creatively worthless.        

The creative process of being a head writer is probably stressful enough (generating storyline ideas and utilizing the cast in accordance with their contract requirements), without having to "appear before the principal" like a high school kid several times a week with big stacks of papers to get approved, and then "grading papers" like a teaching assistant.  I'd hate it.