saynotoursoap

Even more repetitive than JR?

THANK YOU, Carl!

Personally, I found JR to be the most overrated, repetitive character on nighttime soaps. Well, next to Alexis Carrington. JR did nothing but make one dirty deal after another for Ewing Oil, usually with Ewing Oil being placed in some type jeopardy as a result, and cheating on Sue Ellen. This went on ad nauseum for 13 seasons or however the hell long the series lasted. David Selby could act circles around the sneering, one note Larry Hagman. It is funny that Khan disses Richard and then refers to him as "much to gray a character". Right. He was a gray character because Selby was a superior actor who played a multifaceted role. Hagman and Foxworth are incapable of playing anything but the shallow contemptible pricks they are in real life.

I loathed Bob Foxworth and his self-righteous, sanctimonious Chase with all my heart. Foxworth hated the series so badly. He should have left far earlier and spared us all his mannered, dull, tight-arsed performances. If anyone should have died at the beginning, it was Chase Gioberti. Chase should have been killed in the first episode, allowing the luminous Maggie to arrive in Tuscany and butt heads with Angela over the vineyards. Maggie made a much better adversary for Angela, because Maggie was not as annoyingly goody-two shoes as Chase.

Also, I too loved Emma and Julia. I adored their idiosyncratic natures. They were so different than the female characters found on Dallas and Dynasty. I couldn't get enough of Abby Dalton's and Margaret Ladd's bizarre performances.

Personally, I found Falcon Crest to be more entertaining than Dallas and less campy than Dynasty. Falcon Crest was fast-paced, melodramatic, and witty. It was one of my favorite nighttime soaps, second only to Knots Landing. As for showrunners, I enjoyed Falcon Crest the most under Jeff Freilich and Joel Surnow. FC really didn't jump the shark until the miserable 8th season when the new idiot producers killed off Melissa and started telling "ripped from the headlines stories' like Maggie's son falling down the well ala Baby Jessica.

Dallas jumped the shark in 1985. Had Dallas ended with Bobby's death, it would have been a nearly unflawed series. Unfortunately, we had to endure the horrific dream season, Pam's death, Sue Ellen's departure, and umpteen more seasons of mind-numbing recycled stories which were ill conceived, sloppily written, and mostly miscast.

Was Mona's maid a character viewers knew or was she one of those servants who only appeared when it was time to die?

Mona's maid Mrs. Sturgis was known to the audience. She was a recurring character played by Marjorie Lovett. She had appeared on the series since at least 1978, though often she was offscreen somewhere and only mentioned.

Thanks. It's interesting to learn that James Douglas played such a nefarious role, since James and Eliot were straight arrow.

So how long were Natalie and Alec's Billy around? I guess Luke and Natalie didn't end up together since the show at the end hinted he'd be with Ivie.

It turns out I have the next one of the Sept/Oct 82 so if you don't have it I'll type it up.

Alec arrived as Billy in August 1980, just as the Hope Memorial hostage story was winding down. Billy was killed off in October 1982. Natalie arrived after Billy, in November 1980. Luke and Natalie had ended their relationship before Ivy fell for him. Natalie had left Luke and moved in with Lt. Paul Reed, who was revealed in the final episode to be one of Billy's shooters. I was left with the impression that Natalie would not squeal on Paul.

Seeds of Billy's heelish behavior were sown before Shawn Campbell left the role. Billy slept with Greta and impregnated her. Greta fantasized that she and Billy would marry and live happily ever after, but Billy was not prepared for the responsibility of marriage and fatherhood. Primarily he wanted sex. He and Greta did move in together after Lee Ann's birth, but Billy started getting wasted all the time and would not help Greta with the childcare. They fought constantly, and Billy was tempted by Kim Langsworth, the rich, unwed mother Greta met when she went away to have her own baby. Billy got high and crashed his car in May 1979. He was comatose and later needed a brain operation to recover. While he was hospitalized, Greta became intrigued with Dr. John Bennett. A jealous Billy later declared that he wanted to reunite with Greta and make amends to his baby daughter. He asked Greta to marry him, but she was skeptical that he had really changed. When she refused Billy's proposal, he skipped town. This was in August 1979.

Billy returned a year later, played by Alec Baldwin. Initially, Billy seemed contrite about his behavior. Greta (played by Gracie Harrison, who succeeded long running Jennifer Houlton) was seeing Brad Huntington at the time and was considering marriage. Billy told Greta how much he loved her and Lee Ann and wanted to be a family. Greta felt her dream was finally coming true, and she went to bed with Billy. It was after this that Billy started receiving mysterious phone calls. The caller was revealed to be Natalie, with whom Billy had been having an affair while he was away. It was very quickly established that Billy and Natalie had schemed to get their hands on Lee Ann's fortune, which had been left to her by Theodora Van Allen. As part of the plan, Billy had to reunite with Greta and gain custody of Lee Ann, but he cheated with Natalie the whole time. So basically, Alec's Billy was rotten from the beginning. I remember one scene, probably written during the Harding Lemay period, in which an exasperated Carolee screamed at Billy that sadly he was more like his evil father Dan Allison than Steve Aldrich. Nice nod to the past.

I have seen Marta/Shana;s name in some cast lists but never any mention of the character in synopses.

Ginger Gerlach died December 28, 1971, a year after leaving The Doctors.

Shana was involved with Paul Bennett. Mike Powers, forever unlucky in love, turned his attention to rehabilitation nurse Nancy Bennett after his girlfriend Liz Wilson departed Madison. Mike and Nancy became engaged, and then her husband Paul turned up. A few years earlier Paul had joined the Israeli Army and had been presumed a casualty of the Six Day War. Paul had been rescued in the Middle east and nursed by Shana Golan. When Nancy could not decide if she wanted to stay with Mike or continue her marriage to Paul, Shana announced that she loved Paul. Shana and Nancy became rivals. Eventually Nancy reconciled with Paul, and they (along with Shana) all left town. Mike, on the rebound, allowed himself to become involved with bitchy Julie Forrest.

Berkeley had a short stint on AW in 80 as the corrupt cop friend of Larry and also had a stint on OLTL I think.

Does anyone know about beverlee's first husband(Scott's father)

In a SOW interview when she did the GH stint,Bev seemed very happy with life in LA.She saisd she managed to fill in her days,not with anything major,but just enjoying a normal existence.She obviously saved her money and enjoyed the freedom of not being tied to the daily obligation of soap work.

What year did Berkeley die?

Beverlee's first husband and Scott's father was Mark McKinsey. In the 1960's, Beverlee was married to actor Angus Duncan. Duncan appeared in the first episode of The Mary Tyler Moore Show as the man who jilted Mary, causing her to move to Minneapolis. Trivia: Duncan was the first choice to play the Ted Baxter role, as the creators envisioned Ted as a young man. Berkeley died in September 1984. It was his death that resulted in Beverlee being replaced as Alexandra Spaulding on Guiding Light by Lydia Bruce. Coincidentally, Beverlee and Lydia died within five days of one another.

Also, for those who are not aware, the son referred to in this article was the child Berkeley had with Susan Harris, who later created the sitcoms Soap and The Golden Girls.

Edith Bunker was most certainly not a "thing." She was, perhaps, the most humane character Norman Lear ever created, and one which Jean Stapleton beautifully brought to life; and if Ms. Laub had climbed down from her stridently feminist soapbox for a moment, she would've seen that, too.

I concur about Jean Stapleton and Bryna Laub. But, MH2 was not a parody. It was a satire, and in America, satire is what closes on Saturday. I believe Americans have less of an affinity for satire than any other nation. MH2 is one of the most misunderstood programs in television history. I recall Laub constantly bemoaning critics who criticized daytime soaps after watching a handful of episodes, yet she committed the same sin against MH2. Perhaps if she had watched every episode with an open mind, no preconceived notions about the characters or stories, she would have at least understood why those of us who "got it" enjoyed it so much.

Did any other soap ever offer Sherry a role?

Not that I know of, but she would not have accepted one anyway. I believe Sherry wanted to focus on her voice work and theater.

I was going to ask about Kathy. I think I might have asked this before, but what did you think of her character and do you think recasting her after Courtney Sherman left was necessary? Did Courtney return after Nicolette Goulet left? I can't remember.

I liked Kathy and Scott in the 1970's. Kathy's character was quite different than most female soap roles. She was somewhat like Jillian on Ryan's Hope. She was strong and career-oriented and unapologetic for it. After Sherman and Simon left, there was no point in bringing the characters back, IMO. Sherman did return to Search for a short period around 1983 when Liza was accused of murdering Rusty, Sr., but there was no magic there. Search had changed. Courtney Sherman and Kathy's character did not fit in.

I had also wanted to ask if you thought it was a mistake to fire Millee Taggart. Did Janet ever appear on NBC's run?

Yes! Jo and Stu's families should have remained strong. It was a mistake to dump Taggart and Billie Lou Watt. Besides, the character of Sunny was one of the most popular younger ladies on the show, and Sunny was Janet's step-daughter as well as Liza's best friend. Taggart did appear in the NBC episodes, but not for long. I think Janet and Ted were written out within a month or two after Search moved to NBC.

How would you compare Shaffer's Stephanie and Estelle, who was supposed to be the new Alexis? Did they interact?

To be honest, I do not recall whether Stephanie and Estelle had any scenes together, because my viewing of Search was most limited during this period. Around the mid-80's, I had become disenchanted with all of the NBC soaps and switched my allegiance to CBS. If I remember correctly, Estelle arrived very shortly before Stephanie was murdered, maybe within a month or only weeks. I loved Estelle and began to watch Search actively during the last four or five months. In many ways, Estelle was more like Stephanie than was Shaffer's Stephanie. Stephanie was a seductress. Yes, she wanted money, privilege, and power, but she was also a naughty girl who enjoyed antics and dallying with gentlemen. Louise Shaffer played Stephanie as an overworked, obsessed businesswoman. I do not recall Shaffer's Stephanie even hinting at seduction or being sexy. She appeared to be solely driven by that television station and was always in huff because of deadlines and meetings. In short, she was not fun the way Cheatham played the role. While Estelle enjoyed wealth and power, the writers focused more her attempts to win Lloyd away from Liza, and Estelle demonstrated the same mischievous quality that Cheatham's Stephanie had.

I'm surprised that they would kill off Suzi when the show was ending. Maybe this was supposed to make some statement about life or whatever.

Suzi was actually killed off before the series was canceled. The writers did not know at the time that the series was ending. I am not sure if the move was story-dictated or if Eoff left at the end of her contract. I suppose this is the reason she returned in the next-to-the-last episode to give Cagney and Jonah closure.

Do you think the casting was a problem with Beau and Cissy or no one would have made it better?

Do not misunderstand, Carl. I did not have a problem with Patsy Pease or Danny Goldring as actors. I simply did not feel that the characters and stories were suited to the tone that the Corringtons had created. My favourite era of Search was the 1974-77 period. Ann Marcus, Maggie DePriest, and the Elmans wrote an extremely balanced serial. Search may have been one of the most demographically balanced soaps on the air at that time. The stories were also diverse. Jo and Stu still were in the thick of things. It was an enjoyable era. When Henry Slesar took over in 1977, the tone of Search changed. Slesar was a marvelous writer, but not suited for SFT, IMO. When the Corringtons became headwriters, they too changed the show's tone. Because they were based in New Orleans, Search developed somewhat of a gothic tone, while maintaining the integrity of its history. I really liked what the Corringtons did with the show because it seemed different than the other CBS soaps. In 1980, with the arrival of the Mitchells and the aforementioned illegal gambling and government corruption plots, the tone of Search changed again, and not for the better in this viewer's opinion. I suppose I was already bored with the cowboy craze, and the hokey plot of having the district attorney taking kickbacks from Mitchell, while Cissy played the stereotypical soap villainess stealing the dim-witted hunk away from the heroine with an unplanned pregnancy...I found it all to be a colossal drag. The end of the story was even sillier. The DA, McKay, attempted to kill Liza and Kathy, because Kathy had uncovered the fact that McKay murdered Beau instead of Sunny. McKay trapped Liza and Kathy in Kathy's law office, and she managed to overpower him by clobbering him over the head with a jar of Hershey's Kisses. I am NOT making this up. It was one of the most inane things I have ever seen on daytime. So, to answer your question, I do not think any actors could have saved the story or characters. I simply did not like the set-up, and it only became worse from that point onward.

Was Evie the character Joanna Going and Colleen Dion (?) played?

Lisa Peluso left SFT before the end, right? Did Wendy go with her or did they recast? And they recast Suzi after Cynthia Gibb, right?

How long was it between Travis's death and the story with Hogan? Do you think Sherry suited it as much as she did the story with Travis?

I was also going to ask, if you saw any of that, what you thought of Patsy Pease's character, the one who had a custody battle with Liza and Travis, and if you thought they could have done more with her.

I wonder if the show would have killed Stephanie if Maree had stayed.

Yes, Colleen and Joanna played Evie Stone.

Lisa Peluso left exactly a year before Search went off the air. Wendy actually disappeared from Henderson following the murder of Sarah Whiting. The writers left the plot open as to whether or not Wendy skipped town or had been a victim of the serial killer. Wendy was not recast after Peluso left.

Cynthia Gibb left in 1983 and was replaced for a year by a truly unwatchable actress named Elizabeth Swackhammer (probably misspelled). After Elizabeth, Teri Eoff took over as Suzi and played the part until Suzi died in a car accident in September 1986. Eoff returned in the very last week of Search to say a final goodbye to her husband and son.

As for Patsy Pease, I could not tolerate her character at all. She and her redneck brother Beau were the beginning of the downfall of Search on CBS. Beau ran a honky-tonk called The Boilermaker, which had a secret casino in the back room. Somehow that story was intertwined with a boring police corruption plot that seemed to last an eternity. Beau was murdered, Sunny was falsely accused of the crime, Cissy got knocked up with Lee's baby to win him away from Sunny. The scenario had an Urban Cowboy feel to it, which was obviously one more attempt by daytime to emulate Dallas. None of it worked, IMO.

Re: Maree Cheatham. When Maree left, Stephanie should have gone off the canvas, too. Louise Shaffer is a dynamite actress, but she was totally wrong for Stephanie. Louise really did not play Stephanie; she simply continued her Rae Woodard role from Ryan's Hope. Although Stephanie was rich and a successful businesswoman, she was not the powerhouse Alexis Carrington type that Shaffer played.

Hogan returned in April 1985 for Cagney and Suzy's wedding. Hogan didn't want to renew his relationship with Sunny, instead, he ended up in a plane crash with Liza and they became lovers in May 1985.

I do not recall a plane crash. From my recollection, Liza accidentally gave away Hogan's revered ancient typewriter for a charity bazaar. He made her drive with him to retrieve it. They drove into a violent thunderstorm. A child had fallen into a lake. Somehow in attempting to save the child, Hogan and Liza both fell into the lake, too. They sought shelter from the storm in a cave. This sequence played out for a week of episodes, with them having lusty sex for sex's sake.

The Hogan/Liza/Sunny/Lloyd stuff played on the AOL Channel and I liked what I saw, but I saw bits and pieces. Online fans despise it, and after watching some episodes on YouTube, I can see why. Liza comes off as a spoiled bitch, Hogan an arrogrant prick, Sunny as clingy and desperate, and Lloyd a foolish nitwit. The concept of the story is neat. At times, I think the story worked well. Liza knew her love for Hogan was forbidden and she didn't want to hurt her friend, Sunny. There was a scene where Liza was hiding in Hogan's kitchen while Sunny stopped by for a surprise visit. Liza was desperate to leave, but couldn't and she was fearful Sunny would get the wrong idea. If the story could have been written more in character, maybe it would have been better received by the audience. Interestingly enough, Forsythe ended up in a similar situation on "Another World" when John and Felicia had an affair.

I agree with much of what you said. I believe the reason for the strong characterizations, which was off-putting to many longtime fans, was because the point of the storyline was to show how some relationships can develop into something much stronger based on a purely physical attraction, rather than the traditional soap romance of sex developing later from love. In many ways, it was a daring move. However, in order for it to work, Liza had to be shown as somewhat prissy and repressed, and that rubbed Liza fans the wrong way. Sherry Mathis' Liza had always been very warm, loving, and tolerant. Personally, I did not find the story unbelievable. Liza had just lost Travis, the love of her life, the year before, and she was attempting (sometimes unsuccessfully) to adapt to many different roles, including: widow, businesswoman, and single parent, while still grieving for love lost. Her reaction to a forbidden passion that she could not deny was perfectly believable to me.

Quite frankly, the story worked for me because after Travis died, Liza basically languished with very little story. The Kentucky Bluebird plot never went anywhere because Will Patton refused to sign a longterm contract, and Mathis really did not have the proper chemistry with any other actor on the soap except for David Forsythe, JMHO.

Mathis died several years after "Search for Tomorrow" ended. Maybe she was already ill. The papers claim she was joining Jerry Lanning, her husband, out on the west coast.

Sherry left Search because her marriage to Jerry Lanning was in serious trouble. They briefly attempted to patch things up, but shortly thereafter, Sherry moved to Austria for a year to study opera. As veteran soap fans know, Sherry had studied voice before joining the soap world, and her singing had been incorporated into Liza's plot for her first few years on Search. Later writers apparently forgot that Liza could sing, or they just didn't care, as running corporations like Tourneur Instruments was all the rage in those Dynasty/Dallas days. Not long after Sherry left the show to join Jerry in LA, he was back in New York playing Cain on Guiding Light. Sherry spent the rest of her life dividing her time between a farm she owned in Texas and studying in Europe. She was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in the early 90's, many years after divorcing Lanning. She died in January 1994 in her hometown of Memphis, TN.

Did AMC cast Beverly as Ann when Judith left?

No. Ann was written out in 1977. When she returned in 1980, Gwynn Gillis played the part. Ironically, Beverly was cast by Another World to replace Judith Barcroft when she vacated the role of Lenore Curtin in 1971. Before Beverly could tape her first scenes, Susan Sullivan left A World Apart, and AW dumped Beverly for Susan.

I'm a HUGE Marcy Walker fan (clearly! ) and never have been a big GL fan I tuned in some back then just for her but couldn't get into it because they kept pairing her with men who were, IMO, too old for her.

Your comment made me chuckle. Robert Newman and Ron Raines (Josh Lewis & Alan Spaulding) are both younger than A Martinez. In fact, Newman is a decade younger than Martinez.

Sedrick offered a wonderfully detailed explanation of why Walker was not successful on GL, but my feeling is simply that stunt casting generally does not work. Walker failed for the same reason Genie Francis tanked on Days of our Lives. They were both hired for their fanbase and name recognition, without any consideration regarding the creation of an interesting, viable character.

There are clips of Lori March on youtube. Lori March played a character involved in the DOMI plot. I believe her name was Barbara. Jayne Heller played Phyllis Carpenter.

dc, thank you for correcting me! I need to watch my old tapes again because I would have sworn on a stack of bibles that Lori March played Phyllis. I do not remember her playing Barbara at all. So, Carl, Lori was not on 6 months, she was only in a handful of episodes in the summer of 1984.

Barbara was Barbara Gilbert. Vanessa kept DOMI going through contributions from wealthy patrons, and then she killed them. Barbara Gilbert was the red flag that something was amiss within DOMI. Ione's son Gene was a newspaper reporter, and he worked on an expose of the organization. Vanessa got her hands on Barbara's money and hypnotized her into taking a drug overdose (tranquilizers or sleeping pills). Barbara's death appeared to be a suicide. Vanessa turned her attention to another wealthy patron, Beverly Randolph. I remember her name because Beverly Penberthy played Pat Randolph on AW. Since P&G was involved in the production, I wondered if the name was an in-joke. Vanessa convinced Beverly to seek medical attention from Ben Martin. Ben refused to prescribe her tranquilizers, so Vanessa hypnotized her into going to a local drugstore and telling the pharmacist that Ben Martin recommended that she buy the strongest over the counter allergy medication on the market. Beverly had some medical condition for which antihistamines were contraindicated. Vanessa gave her a posthypnotic suggestion to take the whole bottle, and Beverly died too. Beverly's death accelerated the story to its conclusion.

I apologize to all for posting incorrect information. I must re-watch these episodes to ensure that I did not goof elsewhere.

Thanks for telling us more about these actors. Lori March was pretty important on Secret Storm wasn't she? How long was she on Another Life?

I didn't know they ever had any stories on this show where characters went to hell. I guess they took it more seriously than Passions did...

Was Nancy Lawson also "saved" later on?

Yes, Lori March was Valerie aka Mrs. Peter Ames on Secret Storm, the matriarch of the series from the mid-60's to the end in 1974. On Another Life she played Phyllis Carpenter. When Miriam and Charles were written out, Charles' brother Preston and Preston's bitchy daughter Courtney came to Kingsley and moved into the Carpenter home. Courtney was paired with Peter Davidson until her dreary old preppie boyfriend Vaughn Sumner also arrived from Lake Forest, the wealthy suburb where they had previously lived. Vaughn wormed his way back into Courtney's life even though she ostensibly did not want him. Eventually it was revealed that Courtney's mother Phyllis had Alzheimer's and was in a very expensive sanatorium. Vaughn's family was filthy rich and had invested in Preston's failing company. Vaughn made it clear that he would pull his family's investment out of Preston's business if Courtney failed to marry him, and without the business, they could not pay Phyllis' exorbitant medical fees. Lori was on for about six months, from late 1983 until mid-1984, but she was a recurring character.

Nancy did not actually get saved. She ended up bankrupt and homeless. She had always referred to Ione disparagingly as "that old black woman", and naturally, when Nancy had no where else to turn, Ione took her in. By the end of the series any time Nancy became upset she ran to hug Ione and cry, "Oh, it's so awful, Ione. Please help me." I loved that. Nancy would not listen to Ione's warnings to stay away from Vanessa Fazan. Vanessa gave Nancy the Evil Eye, causing her to be paralyzed. Nancy was there for Ben Martin's final confrontation with Vanessa who revealed her demon self. Nancy ran crying to Ione when it was all over. She was on her way to believing, but not quite there.

Vaughn on the other hand realized what a nasty person he had become and decided he no longer needed Courtney's recommendation to prove he was a man (he had a little problem with Mr. Stiffy for a while). This lead to a final speech in the last show about he now believed in "something greater than the two of them", and Courtney did an about face, decided she really did love him, and was well on her way to preaching the gospel, too.

The stuff with Beth's return does seem intriguing. I know some fans felt that Beth Chamberlin did not come alive in the role until later on when Beth went "bad", but in a lot of ways I think I preferred Beth as a heroine, no matter who played her. Judi's Beth seemed much stronger, but Chamberlin seemed OK. I also liked her as Lorelei, but I think a lot of the other stories she had where Beth was written as neurotic or crazy were kind of a mess.

If I had my druthers, Judi Evans would have always played Beth, but I thought Beth Chamberlin did a good job as a replacement. The only time I really did not like Beth was during her return in the Rauch era. They dressed Beth in designer clothes. She always had a string of pearls around her neck. She had taken up with sleazeball Carl who abused her in front of her daughter Lizzie. All of that seemed so terribly horribly wrong for the character. I think that this was the Beth that viewers began to detest.

To me Beth Chamberlin played comedy well. I thought Lorelai was hilarious instead of bad. Even in Chamberlin's initial run, there were scenes of Beth making funny faces at Phillip inside the sanitarium. It is too bad the writers did not emphasize that more.

I was also annoyed that when Chamberlin played the part, Beth's creative side was ignored. Beth was an artist and art was so important to her when Evans played the role. I think artistry was mentioned in passing later on, but it would have been nice if that aspect of the character was developed under Chamberlin. When Alan-Michael returned in 1987, he talked about Hope being an artists' rep in New York. Emphasizing Beth's artistry would have been a wonderful way to bring Hope Bauer back into the narrative.

FYI, the song Beth and Phillip danced to was "Truly" by Lional Ritchie

Good God. I always get the name of that song wrong. I can hum it. I can sing the first few verses of it ( not that you would want to hear that), but I always confuse it with "Still". I think it is because the word "truly" is not mentioned until the song is 3/4ths completed.

Now I have to listen to it again.

I'm sure a lot of people disagree with you guys, as the pairing of Lujack/Beth proved to be as popular as Phillip/Beth. In fact, it was one of few times in soap history a super couple was paired successfully IMMEDIATELY after one half was in a successful super couple.

Part of the reason I didn't like the Beth/Phillip pairing after Lujack was the way he was portrayed by Bolger. Here we are having to believe the character made a complete swing back in a short time, being cordial about/with Lujack after the year before being turned into "Alan junior" (IMO unsuccessfully) after Chris Bernau took his hiatus from the show. Maybe if they brought back GA sooner, the re-pairing would have been more believable.

heffer, I totally agree with you that Beth and Lujack had a significant fanbase. I will not argue that point in the least. I had friends at the time who were totally pro Beth/Lujack and loathed Phillip. I just did not see it myself and never will. This is not a personal attack on you or your opinion. You disagree and that is cool. Differences make the world go around. I just wanted a chance to explain why I disagree. No hard feelings, okay? BTW, I agree with you about Bolger. The pairing of Bolger and Evans did not work.

Petronia Paley's character was one of those introduced around 77 or 78, right? Did she ever do anything? I know Petronia was cast on AW a few years later.

Do you think any of the stories like the one about Carolee's kidnapping and rape might have been too much for viewers?

What seems impressive about the non-traditional soaps back then is they still knew how to write in the soap format. There was none of the "look at how different I am, screw you viewers" you get today.

Yes. Petronia played Dr. Jessie Rawlings. She was introduced during Doug Marland's era. She is another gifted actress like Beatrice Winde who was sadly underutilized. I do not remember much about her. I am not sure whether or not Petronia was on contract, but Jessie appeared sporadically. I would define her as a recurring character. She counseled other characters and was there to provide recap for the audience. Doug Marland enjoyed having many minor characters on the canvas. I imagine he did it to see which ones might be developed into more important roles later on.

No, Carolee's kidnapping/rape was not too much. The scenes played tastefully, and the theme was always about life and death situations. Maggie sleeping with Kyle behind Matt's back. Now that was too much for viewers. God forbid Carolee had ever done the dirty on Steve. That would have had people tuning out in droves!

I agree with you about the nature of non-traditional soaps. The attitude in those days seemed to be that having a unique identity was a good thing, that you could get something out of one soap that you could not get with another, and it was a reason to watch. The prevailing attitude now is that all the soaps have to be exactly the same, so if you watch one, you will watch them all. It is that corporate branding attitude. The problem is that if one soap on a network does not catch your interest, probably none of them will because they are all basically identical.

Thanks saynotoursoap for all the info in this thread.

I was wondering if someone could help me with the introduction of Ann Larimer? I know she was involved with Nick and Althea early on in her run, and then became an interloper for Steve and Carolee's marriage. Did Ann and Nick know each other before Ann arrived in town and that was how she was able to come between Nick and Althea?

Also what was the name of Dr. Terri Foster's mother on the show? I know she worked for Viveca Strand as a maid.

You are welcome, MichaelGL. I feel I write too much at times. I do not want to be known as a thread hijacker.

Terri Foster's mother was Lillian, played by the legendary Beatrice Winde. New York soaps in the 1960's and 1970's were special because you often found the most amazing stage actors in supporting roles. I absolutely loved Beatrice Winde. My father took our family on an annual trip to NYC every year to catch as many stage productions as we could. I remember seeing Bea Winde for the first time as a teenager at the Ambassador theater around 1971 or 1972. She was in a Broadway production called Ain't Supposed to Die a Natural Death, and my God she was just phenomenal. I think she may have won (or at least been nominated) a Tony in that show. She is no longer with us sadly. Anyone remember when she played Ruth Price on Guiding Light around 1989-90? This was her best soap role. Amazing actress.

Ann did not come between Nick and Althea. Nick and Althea were already divorced when Ann arrived in early 1973. After Nick and Althea divorced the first time, Althea married the slimy psychiatrist Dr. John Morrison. Morrison manipulated an unstable nurse, Cathy Ryker, into seducing Nick and getting pregnant to trap him into marriage. Cathy lost the baby, went bananas, and stole Stephanie Aldrich, Steve and Carolee's infant daughter. Cathy grabbed the baby and climbed out on a window ledge of a hotel when the jig was up. Nick and Morrison tried to talk her back in. She handed Stephanie over, but when she realized how Morrison had manipulated her in to the situation, she pulled away from him and fell to her death. (Some of the soap books say Cathy jumped off a cliff, but they are wrong).

Ann arrived at the tail end of the Cathy Ryker story. Ann and Steve Aldrich had been married when they were teenagers. They had run off and eloped and then quickly divorced. Ann's husband Philip Larimer had just died, and Ann came to Madison to visit Mona. Ann was devastated by her husband's death and was clinging to the past for comfort. Ann was no threat at all to Steve and Carolee, but Mona attempted to use Ann to drive a wedge between Steve and Carolee. Ann, however, turned to Nick for solace. They had a connection because both had just lost their spouse. Of course Nick had not loved Cathy as Ann loved Philip. Nick was still in love with Althea, but he could not have her because she was still married to evil John Morrison. Ann reminded Nick of Althea,though, because both women had similar backgrounds of wealth and privilege, and Ann was also a doctor. Nick thought all of their problems could be solved in bed. Ann resisted him at first, but it was not long before she gave in to him.

The Elizabeth Levin & David Cherrill era of The Doctors intrigues me. Was it well-received? I know ratings probably weren't impressive around this time, but I mean creatively.

I saw an episode from that era on YouTube and I was entertained, despite it being a rather ordinary episode.

I thought the eras of Linda Grover and Levin/Cherrill were excellent. To be honest I never thought that Doug Marland's writing style really suited The Doctors. Doug's best stories were always about large families and communities, and The Doctors was not about either of those. The Doctors always centered around a few core characters and Hope Memorial. Grover took Billy Aldrich and Greta Powers' forbidden teen love affair to create the unwanted pregnancy story. The story was excellent and worked so well because it drove an enormous wedge between Matt and Maggie and Steve and Carolee, who had always been good friends. As a subplot, it created discord in the Aldrich marriage because Steve and Carolee disagreed about Billy's responsibility in the matter, as well as Mona Croft's interference. Grover used that in a good medical story, with Doreen Aldrich convinced she had terminal leukemia. Doreen went off the deep end, deciding she her last days could only be happy with Steve. She kidnapped Carolee and held her captive in a grimy warehouse. This led to the story of Carolee being raped by Doreen's accomplice Mel, which triggered another source of conflict in the Aldrich, while bring the Powers and Aldrich back together. Of course Doreen's story had a twist ending in that she was not really dying at all.

Levin and Cherrill kept the same tone as Grover, so the transition between regimes was not jarring at all. I thought Levin and Cherrill balanced the series well. They wrote the sad story of Sara Dancy's terminal illness. They gave Nola a bit of comedy to play with her spacey nursemaid Mildred. The scenes in the Croft mansion with Nola and Mildred were reminiscent of Iris and Vivian on Another World. Levin and Cherrill also attempted to add diversity to the series. After Palmer Deane was written out in the mid-70's, The Doctors became a very white-bred soap. A number of African American characters started to turn up in 1979, and after Levin/Cherrill left, those characters were quickly dropped. Levin is playwright, so the dialogue was particularly sharp and resonated with emotion and subtext.

The problem with The Doctors was that it was inevitably compared to General Hospital, and vice versa. The two shows seemed to always compete in the ratings, with one being popular and the other not so. The two switched places back and forth in popularity over the years. At the time GH went into its zenith on ABC, I think NBC and Colgate-Palmolive felt pressure to compete with GH. Even during the late 70's, The Doctors always had respectable, if mediocre ratings. It held most of its lead-in audience from Days of Our Lives, but that was not enough for NBC. To me The Doctors was always a "small soap". I compare it to Ryan's Hope. I don't think The Doctors ever would have become a major hit for NBC on the same level as what GH did at ABC. Even though they both centered around hospitals, they were very different programs, with a different tone and focus.

NBC was notorious for making bad decisions. They had thrown away one good soap after another in an attempt to be #1, and typically the moderately rated soaps ended up being replaced with ones that were much less successful.

I think I know the older black lady from stuff though). I don't know how many other people they cast were out of New York or L.A., if any. That's really interesting as the level of acting seems to be on par with most soap acting of the era.

The older black lady playing Ione Redlon was Edye Byrde. She is recognizable from a popular series of telephone company ads ("reach out and touch someone")that ran in the late 70's/early 80's. You are right, though. Another Life had a nice mix of local and coastal actors. Most of the actors in the first year were more local or lesser known. A number of P&G/network soap actors began to appear in 1982, including the aforementioned Chandler Hill Harben, Michael M. Ryan (John Randolph, AW), Dorothy Stinnette (Somerset/EON), Nicholas Benedict (AMC), Paul Gleason (AMC), Lori March (Secret Storm), Paul Tinder (AW & EON).

Mary Jean Feton, who played the lead matriarch Terry Davidson, was wonderful. She exhibited so much warmth and grace. She easily could have carried a similar role on a major network soap. Her second husband on the show, Dr. Dave Phillips, was played by Tom Urich. Tom is the brother of actor Robert Urich, and Tom also contributed greatly to the success of the series. He had a small part on The Edge of Night in December 1984 before vanishing from the screen.

Susan Scannell, a pretty redhead, went on to play Kristin Carter on Search for Tomorrow and then had a brief stint on Dynasty before retiring from acting. She married Chris Roland, the actor played Dr. Russ Weaver (who was shot, died, and went to hell). They later divorced. Chris lives in South Africa, and Susan lives and works in Boston.

The actor who played wealthy playboy Gil Prescott was Jerry Timm. Jerry was one of the most gorgeous men I have ever seen in my life. Well, he had been one of the Marlboro Men models, so that tells you how hot he was. He retired from acting, too, to open a furniture design business and sadly died in a car crash at far too young an age.

Terry's sister on the show, Nancy Lawson, was played by Nancy Mulvey. I believe Nancy was a local actress, and she was particularly good at being nasty. When Charles Carpenter wailed about daughter Miriam's problems with drugs, Nancy snarled, "Well what do you expect, Charles, hanging out with a black woman and a prostitute in the ghetto."

Another poster mentioned hooker with a heart of gold Babs Farley. Julie Jenny played that part with so much humor. Babs was all made up with a big wig on her head, tons of jewelry and makeup, and she had the hots for the square Harold Webster, a short, balding, chubby lawyer. Julie and actor Alan Sader were so funny together.

One of the things the series did well was create a diverse community. Ione's home was similar to Ina Hopkins' on One Life. Ione took in the prostitutes, drug addicts, anyone who needed help turned to her. Another Life was similar in that respect to All My Children, too. The black characters were fully integrated into the drama. They weren't just token characters.

I definitely think that more locally-produced soaps would work if the financing was right.

That's all fascinating, and so well told. Miriam is the one who left town eventually, and her father was still a schemer?

I love the way you tell the story. I wish I could see all that. And the way they do the titles is very groundbreaking.

Do you think if the show had been great from the start it might have had a longer run or do you think considering that it was a Christian soap which might have alienated believers and non-believers, and also syndicated/on CBN instead of on a network, it ran probably as long as it could have?

Good question, and I do not have an answer! When the announcement came that Another Life was going off the air, I was shocked. In those days we did not have the internet or even a weekly soap magazine, and CBN waited until the last minute to inform viewers. It was the Friday episode immediately preceding the last week of the soap. At the end of Friday's episode instead of going into the closing credits from the last scene, they faded into a shot of the opening titles with the theme music and cut quickly to scenes of Monday's episode. Another Life's announcer said something like, "On Monday..." and proceeded to give a brief blurb about the plot. At the end he said, "Be sure to join us next week for the exciting conclusion to Another Life...the final chapter."

I called CBN immediately and spoke to the program director. She stated that Another Life's ratings increased significantly during Miriam's kidnapping and remained high through the Kate Carothers murder mystery. But, in the second half of 1984, the ratings began to fall back to levels of the show's first year. According to the program director, Another Life had become more expensive to produce, and the ratings were not generating enough audience to make the production viable.

You are probably right about the viewers. Another Life was a tricky soap to pull off because there is such a fine line in not offending viewers of different faiths. Part of the problem also arose in the loss of actors. After the mystery of Kate's murder was resolved, the series seemed to lose momentum. Miriam and her father Charles were written out, and Charles' brother and niece were written in to replace them. Those characters took time to develop, which slowed down the pace. Courtney Carpenter, the bitchy niece, was paired with matriarch Terry Davidson's son Peter, and in the middle of a love triangle, Peter was dropped. Terry romanced Dr. Dave Phillips. The writers had created a rivalry between his daughters Amber and Stacey over Gil Prescott. At the end of Kate's murder story, Amber was written out, and the Stacey/Gil romance was truncated, leaving neither with much to do. There were so many original/important characters written out and too many new ones written in. The writers devised a weird plot about a small African nation called Dar Salaam. Princess Yolanda Dar Salaam arrived in Kingsley looking for an ancient, mystical bible that held the key to a vast fortune. Somehow the Davidsons ended up with the bible, resulting in kidnappings and attempted murders. Princess Yolanda ran around in African garb with a funny accent. The bible was accidentally lost at church bazaar, several episodes which took place in a revival tent. The story ended in a location shoot on a private airfield with Yolanda and her henchmen trying to escape Kingsley in a plane with the bible. Silliness to nth degree.

In the summer of 1984, Another Life initiated its last two plotlines. One never really got off the ground. The younger characters all attended Kingsley College. Courtney Carpenter became friends with Tina Brubaker, the sister of AL's resident cop Sgt. John Brubaker. At the time there was a real life game on university campuses where students pretended to be assassins and stalked victims. It was called The Assassination Game. Tina got mixed up with a punk rocker named Scolie, who was obsessed with the assassination game. He was presented as an inconsequential geek at first, but later there were hints that he had begun to take the game seriously. This story was never developed or resolved, because AL was cancelled. The other story was about a self-help organization called DOMI(Dominion of Man's Intellect). It was led by the beautiful, charismatic guru Vanessa Fazan. Vanessa was played to perfection by Diane Seely, another potential talent uncovered by the soap but never seen again. The actress had amazing eyes, which came into play later in the story. Terry's nasty sister Nancy was ensnared by Vanessa's magnetism, while Lori's husband Ben found himself being seduced by Vanessa, too. It transpired that Vanessa was a literal demon, who thrived on turning souls away from God. The story was as silly as the Dar Salaam bible, but it was well acted and played totally straight. Vanessa's glowing, hypnotic eyes were saved for the conclusion to the story, so the thrust of the plot was not in special effects or creepy music, but in how Vanessa tempted characters to do things they ordinarily would not have done.

I think the series could have continued longer if they had not made mistakes in changing too many elements in such a short period and if the budget had not become so inflated. Someone else remarked that Another Life looked as good as a network soap, and it did. In fact, it looked better than some.

What did you think of John Bolger?

Didn't the show kind of flounder for material with Phillip when GA returned.

John Bolger is fine as an actor, but horribly miscast as Phillip. Bolger is more of a romantic leading man. He plays light stories and characters well. He was hot back then. It was fun watching him dance on the tables of the Blue Orchid. But, he was not Phillip Spaulding. Grant played the complexities and inconsistencies of Phillip so very well that I could never see any other actor in that role. Maybe TPTB could have found someone else to play him effectively. We will never know. What I do know is that person was not Bolger.

They did flounder with Phillip upon GA's return. For one thing, Phillip changed so much under Bolger, that Phillip was not really the same character that GA abandoned. It took time for the writers to readjust the character back to Grant's interpretation. Also, Sheri Anderson had no idea how to write for GL. I ranted about this in another post. 1986-87 was almost impossible to watch, it was that bad. One of Grant's first stories back involved a hit man who was after Alan. I cannot even recall the reason. I seem to remember Alan being presumed shot and dumped into a shallow grave. The hit man went to Springfield. Phillip was restoring the lighthouse. The hit man poisoned a steak (I am not making this up). Phillip ate it, and then fell off a scaffolding while painting. It was an homage to D.O.A. I believe Rick raced against time to find an antidote to the slow-acting-but-fatal poison. Aye yi yi.

Phillip did not really recover until Pam Long returned and wrote the aforementioned stories about the Spaulding takeover and his involvement with Blake.

saynotoursoap, do you think they built Lujack up because they knew Grant Aleksander was leaving? What did you think of John Bolger?

I don't think the tough guy and music stuff worked that well but I think his relationships with Beth and Alexandra worked well.

I see what you mean about not recasting Beth but I think she might have been able to have left town and then been recast in a few years. But I did love Blake, so perhaps it was for the best.

Didn't the show kind of flounder for material with Phillip when GA returned.

Someone in The Doctors thread was asking about opinions on the writing of Cherrill and Levin, if you had any answers for their question.

You may be right, Carl. Maybe Lujack was built up in case Judi Evans failed to have chemistry with actor succeeding Grant Aleksander. Also, Pam Long enjoyed writing opposite extremes, such as that and Vanessa and Billy (the lady and the cowboy).

Understand that I have no criticism for Vincent Irizarry. Vince saved Lujack from being a total disaster in the hands of a lesser actor. I agree that his scenes with Bev McKinsey were wonderful. I simply could not get past the triteness of the gang thing and how quickly Lujack went from being a threat to the hero. Unlike others, I preferred Nick McHenry over Lujack. Vince and Bev still had the same wonderful adversarial scenes together, but without the Gallahad nonsense.

As for Beth, the point I attempted to make was that Phillip could not move on with Beth being alive in the story. If she were offscreen doing work for the foundation, it would not have made sense for Phillip to stay in Springfield. Beth had to be dead to free Phillip for other stories. Beth's presumed death also opened up story potential, though later on when Pam Long returned. There was an extended story in which Phillip basically stole Spaulding Enterprises from Alan. It had been motivated by years of anger and pent up grief for Beth. The story played very well and gave Chris Bernau an excellent swan song to GL.

Also, the audience knew that Beth probably wasn't really dead, which added a smidgen of suspense to the stories. I loved the way Pam Long set up Beth's return. Phillip was married to the viperous Blake, who plotted and schemed behind his back. There was an art dealer, Bruce something, who had paintings supposedly created by Beth. Phiilip began to receive mysterious phone calls that were apparently from Beth, while the audience saw the back of a woman painting in a studio with a tape of Still playing. Phillip discovered that Alan had paid off the coroner and became obsessed with the idea that Beth was still alive. For weeks and weeks, the audience was teased about whether or not Beth had actually returned.

The whole thing climaxed on a Friday with Phillip and Rick bursting into the studio of the artist. Phillip, stunned, gasped, "Oh my God. It's you." Fadeout. The show was preempted on Monday, so we had to wait until Tuesday to discover that Bruce's girlfriend Dana had pretended to be Beth. Bruce had been paid by Alan to arrange it as revenge from having him sent to prison. Phillip was gutted, and so was the audience, until...the twist at the end of the same episode. In the final scene, Phillip held a photo of Beth (with actress Beth Chamberlin in the photo). A vicious Blake snatched it out of his hand. "Don't you get it? There is no Beth!" she exclaimed. She set the photo on fire. The camera zoomed into the flame, and when it pulled back out again, we saw the flames of a campfire with a girl sitting beside it. Off screen, a man said softly, "Come to bed, Beth." He took her hand, and pulled her up toward the camera, which moved in for a close up of Beth Chamberlin's face.

No, I think Beth's death generated more story and drama than we would have gotten had she just been alive all that time. JMHO.

I saw every Another Life episode during it's original run. It ran here in NYC on WPIX channel 11, but then they took it off and I caught it on CBN, which was great because they repeated the days episode at 11 PM. I have old VCR tapes with episodes on them and I keep saying I'm going to go through them because that opening on YouTube is not original opening from when the series first started. It was much shorter and it didn't have the actors in it.

Right, Monty. The original opening had shots of seagulls soaring over the ocean and the sunrise on the horizon of the water, like the final shot of the opening and closing credits. The music was the same as the end theme, slow instead of the jazzy version of the later opening credits. One thing that should be mentioned regarding the title sequence is that Another Life changed its opening every time the storyline changed. For example, when Lori and boyfriend Russ Weaver crashed their car, leaving Lori paralyzed, shots of the car flipping down the highway embankment were put in the opening credits, along with a shot of Lori paralyzed, and another one where she meets Dr. Ben Martin, who eventually cured her. I thought this was very clever because viewers new to the series could quickly catch up on the plot just by watching the opening credits, and this was nearly 30 years ago.