UCLAN

People are motivated out of fear. But in this case, they WERE afraid of the health care bill. It was too big, too confusing, and people don't trust politicians anymore. If they want to get meaningful health reform passed, they are going to have to SPOON FEED IT to the american public, so their little pea brains can grasp it. They need to dissect the health care bill, and pass each point individually. So everyone can understand every aspect of what's being passed. If they do it this way, the Repubs will have a much harder time standing in the way without it being political suicide. Start out with the pre-existing conditions thing. Then an expansion of medicaid to cover ALL people under 150 percent of the poverty level... and so on and so on. I'd love to see the Republicans put up roadblocks in front of a bill requiring insurers to cover autistic children... I'd just LOVE to see THAT.

I totally agree with this. Healthcare does need to be doled out in small doses. Of course it doesn't say much about our "peas brains"

In response to Max, as a die hard Democrat, I was somewhat disappointed in Obama's first year...but not in him...in the system. I didn't buy into the lofty "change" rhetoric, cause change happens slowly over time. Our economic state plays a big part in how people are feeling (except people did spend tons out here in Pasadena over a week's time). I think that's where all the angst is coming from. The president showed himself to be a measured delibrate thinker. A few missteps, and a few good turns.

Man, it's a shame to see what this thread used to be and what it is today.

Too bad that everyone couldn't get along and discuss/debate politics without it getting so personal. It's a sad thing. But I think it speaks to the state of political discussion as a whole in the US. No one wants to see the other side and what's worse - they don't have to. The right watch FOX and the left watch MSNBC. The right listen to Rush and the left to Air America.

No one discussing differences, just reinforcing your own beliefs while thinking the "other guys" are idiots.

<sigh>

I would have to agree with you. It is really sad. This board is a reflection of what's going on in our country today. I miss everyone here. But you're right, I'm to afraid to post what I feel for fear of being lambasted. Oh well, it was fun while it was good.

agree with opinion on the republicans....as for the filibuster proof 60---don't count on it. Dems run the gamut of the spectrum and are likely to vote their conscience rather than strict party line. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Hey, where is everybody? Testing is finally over. Yay!!!!

Any thoughts on the SCOTUS nomination, prop 8 in Ca and what's going on with the appeal to the Supremes? I think it may not be the right time for that , but I'm not sure.

Hope to read some intersting ideas soon.

Good article, Roman. Thanks for posting it. And I have to agree with almost all of what Ventura had to say:

I can't stand him. I agree with Wanda Sykes - I would teach my kids to get into the car with the stranger if given a choice between the two.

hey, my kids would never get into a car with him either

That was a great article. I wish we would quit tiptoeing around this torture issue and take some action.

I have always loved Jesse "the body" Ventura from wrestling days. Loved that he got into politics as a mayor and then a governor. He definitely speaks his mind.

The dinner was pretty funny.

But the joke about Air Force One being taken for a joy ride over NYC was pretty low class and disturbing.

The rest was pretty darn funny..esp the Rush comment and Hilary/Mexico comment.

I thought the dinner was funny. The pres proved to be quite a comedian. ("Michael Steele in the hizzeee") I thought Wanda was "the bomb". I love her style of comedy. Of course, many did not get it and quite a few Sunday morning press shows had a lot to say. David Gregory on the Today show this morning was commenting on how uncomfortable the pres and first lady looked while she was telling some of her "Rush" jokes. Really? I mean it is comedy and you can either like it or not. Isn't that what comedians do, play the room?

So now I see an article about the WH keeping mum on Syke's performance Saturday. Are they for real? This was entertainment. You can like it or not. Are we going to judge the president according to the jokes he laughs at? How utterly ridiculous.

I'm outta the loop on this one obviously. Guess I'll have to start my own political party. Whose with me? We'll completely pummel the Bri/UCLAN/Steve party at the polls, y'all!

All are welcome Greg 'specially you!

This one is up for grabs... I really want to hear UCLAN's feedback on this story, as I know she works in education in California, but I would also like everyone's opinion on this...

Education in California is heavily dependent right now not just on passage of statewide ballot initiatives funding education May 19, but also on the stimulus money to avoid deeper cuts across the state...

The Obama administration threatens to rescind billions in stimulus money if Gov. Schwarzenegger and lawmakers do not restore wage cuts to unionized home healthcare workers.

Any thoughts on this LA Times story? With education said to be such a concern of Obama's, would he really deny California teachers and students necessary funding in order to shield union workers from the affects of the state's sour budget?

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-he...0,4592200.story

This is a tough one. I know LAUSD is dependent on stimulus money to help with thier financial issues. I don't think this cut would take away money earmarked for education. It's hard to make a living here in sunny SoCal, especially LA. I haven't lived off of $10/hr in years. With the cost of everything down here a deduction in pay of $2/hr could hurt. (My kid make $12/hr at her job as an instructional assistant.) Not quite sure of how I feel about the "strings attached" issue with the stimulus, but those were in place when we accepted the money.

Education is in dire staits. Those four props all have to pass in order to make a slight difference. I'm not in agreement with them. It feels like a ponzi scheme to me. It's just moving money around to cover costs without generating any new revenue. The bottom line is that we have to find revenue to fund schools. The government gets revenue from taxes. No one wants higher taxes. But I look at it like this. The cost of everything has steadily gone up. We don't squawk about paying more for shoes, jeans, food etc., we pay. How can we expect good and services from the government without allowing for increases in taxes? While I don't relish paying more taxes, I understand that it might be necessary. It's a real quagmire.

Education needs to be a major priority along with health care. Children are our future and we need to prepare them for it. Maybe we need to overhaul our education system; more vocational and technical training so that our students will be able to meet the demands of the work force. I just know that we can't continue robbing peter to pay paul when it comes to education.

Howard Dean on MSNBC...

“I think we’ve had quite enough capitalism in the last eight years."

http://www.ihatethemedia.com/howard-dean-h...h-of-capitalism

Okay, so we've suspected for a while that socialism lurks... Is this proof, friends, that there are some in the Democratic party that embrace that big of a move left? I wonder...

My take was that it pertained to the brand of capitalism practiced during the last 8 years. But yeah I think a lot of Dems want a shift to the left, what do expect from Howard DEan. He doesn't hide his leftist views.

As to my being the 3rd party PRES that you previously posted, well that would be a first....I would be the first black woman president. I don't think our country is ready for me, Steve Frame and you, GD. We would definitely be a force to be reckoned with

I was intrigued by the Time article Roman posted. It was very in depth and I thought it hit the issues with the Republican party dead on. I hope that the "new" groove works out for them. This country need another voice. One party rule is frightful.

I will be lurking for the next few days. It is my "favorite" time of the school year.........standardized testing time. This is when all of my special ed students get slapped in the faced with their disabilities as they are required to take grade-level tests when they don't perform at grade level. It's a lot of fun.

President Obama should be helping third-world country leaders getting their houses in order rather than slapping them high fives and jokie-joking around with them.

Can we get our house in order first? I have always had concerns with our country's need to be the great benefactor to the world. I believe in extending a hand, but there is so much here in this country that needs to be attended to. Jobs, homelessness, healthcare, education. If we're not careful, we could become a "[!@#$%^&*]-hole".

Wow... I couldn't have said it all better myself. I was interested in some of your points... because portable buildings, overcrowding, etc. has been happening in our schools here for over 20 years as a result of this issue. At first, only people in border states experienced this problem. I think it is safe to say now that others are finally getting a piece of the action. It isn't pleasant. Whether educators in California want to admit it or not (I briefly discussed money issues for schools with UCLAN in this thread), but a good deal of budgetary education issues in California have to do with illegal aliens. This is why I bristle at the thought of throwing more money to the schools... I believe some in education rely heavily on taxpayer dollars for the classroom, asking for more in some backwards attempt to solve the problem of educating illegal immigrant children. Bond issues are staple of elections here, with more money requested by school districts... and they often get it, resulting in much higher taxes in specific neighborhoods (of course, whether you have an elementary school-age child attending a district school or not). This is part of the issue of higher taxes that some Dems don't get... We get slammed from all sides. But I'm now moving off-topic...

This issue is one reason why I was upset with George W. Bush, and why my support of John McCain was tepid at best. No candidate addressed this issue in an honest way... and so far, Democrats lean heavily to blanket amnesty, which would force us to openly absorb the problems we already have -- and common sense states that if you so much as mention the possibility of amnesty, more will rush in to make it under the gun. It happened during the Reagan era and it will happen again.

I'm for productive immigrants melding into the American fabric... proper legal channels, all that. Those who crowd the line or don't even bother to get IN line -- no sympathy at all. I'm sorry their home country is a shithole... it should be fixed. President Obama should be helping third-world country leaders getting their houses in order rather than slapping them high fives and jokie-joking around with them.

Well are you ready for this? I absolutely, totally agree with everything both of you posted. Illegal immigration is a huge problem in Ca. It is a result of over 30 years of turning a blind eye to the problem. I believe that if appropriate action had been taken 35 or 40 years ago (fining employers who hired illegals) the problem would not be as cumbersome as it is today. This massive problem has totally changed the quality of life especially here in So. Cal. Believe it or not this is an area where I often feel that I discriminate, but it is born out of a frustration for a lack of a solution. Education is hit the hardest, overcrowded schools, language barriers, and to top it off, standardized testing issues. I somewhat agree with amnesty is certain situations, but this is a major problem that truly needs to be addressed.

Well Steve Frame, we must be about the same age. My views were also shaped by the 60's and 70's.

I remember the tax post and what you said. I think that the tax tables came out for next year and it does reflect that some people getting a break now will end up having to pay it back. To me it's another sign of government agencies not being on the same page, not communicating effectively. It will be interesting to see how that is resolved. I have paid the IRS a couple of times and it is not fun.

Steve Frame, please do not alter your posts. Speak from your views. I can gather how you feel from what you post. I've gotten it that you don't affiliate with either or any party and that you are an independent thinker. I view you as fiscally conservative but socially moderate. It's not up to you to justify or explain how you feel. It's up to us as the reader to agree or disagree and proceed from there. I enjoy reading you posts. They trigger a lot of thought and lots of times require me to seek out more information.

For a country that professes that all men are created equal, it's history says otherwise. Even it's current history betrays the constitution in relation to gays and lesbians. If anyone feels differently, please speak up. We will have something to debate in this muthafuckin thread.

OMG! You are so right on. The civil right's act passed in 1965. The voting rights act was passed in 65, yet the Supreme Court is hearing a case that could possibly change that act. For all those who believe that the act in '65 change the tenents of discrimination in this country, open your eyes. Discrimination is alive and well in the US. It's more covert today. And please dont deny it. When you have people calling for the closing of the border with Mexico because of swine flu., when you here the terrible things that are said about these people; it makes me wonder. Do we judge people by the content of their character or the color of their skin, their sexual orientation, their national origin.? How come there has been a rise in the sale of guns since Obama was elected? How come there has been an increase in hits on white supremicists websites? Intolerence is the problem that we sweep under the rug. We don't discuss it, but it's there like the elephant in the room.

I love a good debate and even more so an exchange of ideas.But first and foremost I believe we need to be respectful of our divergent opinions. We have all been posting here long enough to know "what side of the fence" we are on. It has always been my hope to come away with a new take on an opinion.Hopefully, to be intrigued enough to do some further research on what is stated and draw a conclusion. To me that is how the flow goes.

It is often said that history repeats itself and that times swings on a pendulum. I often look back to see how far we have come. Someone mentioned seatbelt laws in a previous post. Yes it is a public health law, but it does speak to government's involvement in our lives. The law is protective of society in general. (same thing goes for cell and texting laws). So, is that government involvement bad. And how do we want government involved in outr lives? We don't want them interfering in spending tax payer revenue but we want them involved by making laws regarding choice and marriage? Who decides that involvement?

The Republican party as it is today has narrowed it's base. That's a fact. The religious right exerts a lot of influence on the party. Can the party survive in this minority state? Probably not, but here are people who are trying to open up the party to more moderate idea's (John McCain's daughter is one). Only time will tell if they will be successful. I can only hope that the Democratic party can remain as open and diverse as it has been since 1965. If Democrats become a party of absolute power, then that doesn't fare well for any one.

Keep the faith folks, we will survive this because our democracy has proven itself to be flexible and adaptable and our citizens always seem to know what is best for the country and strive to achieve it. Peace

I am just trying to hold out hope that for the sake of this country that Obama doesn't mess up because I just don't feel this country can take it right now. But my hope is stronger than my faith that it will actually happen.

That hope is what it's all about. Obama drives the message, but our government truly is one of checks and balances. Somewhere along the line we lost sight of that. We just have to keep faith that all will come out as the best for us.

Oh my! Away for a day and such ...... It's pretty obvious that this board is just a small view of the larger landscape. It's very unfortunate that this country is so polarized. I look at it this way. Pres. O's administration is all about change, a very radical change from the past 8 years. Socialist....nope, I don't think so. I think that label gets tossed out just for the fun of it.

The policies of this admin require a leap of faith...a huge one. If you don't trust politicians, then that leap would be major. I understand why some (Steve Frame) don't trust poiliticians. I can understand the disagreement. What I don't get and I don't like is all the hate, lies and fear that is being thrown out there. NO ONE here does that, but I know we're all exposed.

I have always enjoyed the comments and opinions of this board. This is the only board that I post my opinions on. ( I lurk on others).

GD you were right in the sense that 100 days don't matter. A big deal was made out of it. If we could look at an administration's performance in the scope of what happens and how it's dealt with would be better.

It's been alluded to that people can't figure out how Obama won. Well he did and we have to move forward. It's too soon to tell where we are going and what is going to happen. Our economy is recovering at a very slow place. You can see that when you look at all factors. When you realize that this administration is adhering to Kenseyian economic theory, you are able to understand their perspective and their reasoning for the direction they are headed in. We as a country are faced with numerous problems. How they are being dealt with is markedly different from the past 15-20 years. Is it the right way or the wrong way, we don't know.

That old saying "Knowledge is power" applies here. There is so much information floating around out there that you have to sift though the muck. You are aware that Obama is anti-abortion but is pro-choice. He views marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Some see Obama as far left. I live in that realm and he is most definitly not. He is a little (very little) left of center. If he was radical left, the war crimes trial would be in full swing.

On my last note, KEEP GOVERNMENT OUT OF SPORTS!!!! LEAVE THE BCS ALONE!. No I don't agree with their system but communist?!!. There is a bill pending in the house and one in commitee in the senate to re-vamp college football and institute a playoff system. Don't we have more important things to work on!

Oh I will admit that I don't trust politicians at all. And not just Obama. I don't trust any of them anymore.

I have been lied to by so many of them - in fact the best of them - to the point their promises just don't register anymore. To me all politicians are good actors who have mastered the ability to lie better than anyone in the world.

I felt that he should have prosecuted the ones who carried the torture too far. I was a little upset with him for some of the reveals that he made about how the background intelligence operated. I felt like some who said why have a secret intelligence when you let the world know what your secrets are.

Anyway I was just kind of shocked that he didn't prosecute them.

Ok so, I understand your mistrust of politicians

I am also sorry that your brother and his buddies endured what they did during Vietnam. Some have tried to minimize McCain's experiences and feel that he shouldn't speak out because of this.

I totally agree about the torture issue. I know I would like to see these people prosecuted also. I kind of understand the reluctance, but also hope that the world court will change that reluctance.

I don't think torture yields any information. I think it is inhuman and should never be sanctioned or used.

Not since day one of his campaign have I trusted him. That is not to say that I don't think he has some good ideas but as far as sincerity I don't see what others do.

Aye that is the dilema. I feel that we have lost our capacity to trust. Are we as a society in general so jaded that we are skeptical of everyone?

Cocoa Pebbles!! OMG! I'm a Cocoa Puffs fan myself. I hope yopu enjoyed them.

I think a lot of what you are talking about is legislated on the state and local level. We as a people have more input in those legislations. It seems as if the people have spoken in each state in terms of cigarette taxes, seat belt laws etc. I don't see the ferderal government legislating this.

We live in a system of government where the majority rules. I think that is still being adhered to. Times, people and thoughts change over the years. Our progress and development have a lot to do with what is put forth as legislation.

Sure, there is a lot that I don't agree with, (Fat tax, no way). But just as laws are made, they can be repealed. I see our government as a viable, elastic type of process. There is a lot of give and take.

"Our country sold up the river"? How, what do you mean? We utilized certain policies for eight years. They were not successful. People voted for a change. The policies of this administration are vastly different, but I believe this administration has this country's interest at heart. GD you posted your comment before the president's 100day press conference. I hope you watched and I hope you listened. I'm not saying you should agree with the man, but I would hope that you can get the sense of his sincerity and determination to do a good job for our country. You can't fake that. If his policies will succeed or fail can't be determined as yet, but the man does put country first.

But is it the actual majority. There are still a lot of Democrats that are on that line or else things like Prop 8 wouldn't have passed.

Yes there are a lot that don't want it but at the same time there is a large part of the Democrats who feel that the Democratic party has gone too far to the left in embracing gay marriage and issues in that vein.

Many strategist said this last election would have been closer if those were the basic issues but when the economy went south it pushed the advantage in favor of Obama. Obama was truly benefited by the economy this last election in much the same way that Reagan was in 1980 when he beat Carter. It was very similar then. The economy was so bad and just like George Stephanopolous said one morning whenever the economy is bad the party in charge no matter which one it is always gets the blame.

The right - left and religious - anti-religion thing is the biggest thing that turns me off about the parties. When they both started embracing those instead of what I feel are real political issues is when I could no longer identify with them. And it is because of all that [!@#$%^&*] I no longer am registered as a party member.

I agree with Greg 100% on this. It will not be a good thing for the country for any party to be in full charge. And it will not be good at all for the Democrats if things don't turn around big time in the next 4 years. Who in the hell will they blame when they have a Democratic President and full control.

A political party always need a fall back or else they have to say well this one was all on us. The party go to has always been well the Republican's block us on this or we just couldn't get enough Democrats to vote with us.

I don't think it is just one issue. I think the majority of Americans don't want their morality legislated. I think people like to make their own decisions.

Dissent is very important. We need a two party system to keep dialogue flowing. Compromise is important. The issue with the GOP today is that they have marginalized and confine themselves within in a very narrow area. They don't seem to allow for diversity or disagreement withn their own party. They are demanding that "true" Republicans adhere strictly to their ideology. (Stimulus package, budget, cabinet nominees). They really do appear to be party first.

I see a little good... a lot of bad. Our credibility on the world stage has been severely damaged. I'm waiting for the next Obama misstep... perhaps ice skating with Putin? Speaking of torture, watching all of this HAS been torture!

And I see no hard-hitting analysis has been forthcoming regarding the two posts I dropped above. Interesting...

Give me a break, it was the weekend....Laker basketball.

Let's see. First link...Obama approval....conservativce website...what would I expect. Remember, I feel that polls can be spun also. That was just another viewpoint. I think some articles extract data to fit their purpose

Second link....very interesting. I was not aware of that decision. It apears to be an enhancement of Miranda. I could not pull up the actual case, so I really can't comment. As long as Miranda remains intact, I don't see a cause for alarm. My own personal feelings regarding our justice system cloud my response.

I feel that Steve Frame seeded the best and most objective articles. They outlined the president's 100 days very clearly. I feel that he has done a very good job. I think he has put his agenda in place and is working towards an outcome. He has not been perfect, but who is. Our country is moving in a different direction. Some may not agree with it but then that is the nature of democracy. If people are unhappy with their choices, they will register that displeasure in the next election cycle. I think someone stared 100 days is a hallmark moment. It's a deadline we created. In terms of working for our country I think the president has our best interests at heart.

You always ask the right questions, UCLAN! I did a quick check and Rasmussen has some numbers, though I guess you could question those... but based on their information, which is a national sample and, of course, NOT reflective of national party registrations (maybe I'll see if I can find that later), they claim "baseline targets for adult population" is 40.1% Democrats and 33.1% Republican, with 26.7% Unaffiliated.

So, even taking those numbers, and comparing them to those that identified those polled as "leaners", the poll is definitely skewed and, I think, deceiving. Compare...

AP Poll Dems 46% -- Rasmussen Dems 40.1%

AP Poll Reps 28% -- Rasmussen Reps 33.1%

So, based on these numbers, AP shortchanged Republicans by some 5% points and favored polls Democrats 6%... a spread favoring Democrats and President Obama by 11%. I think that is a gross distortion of what the political landscape might be...

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:4YczFE...=clnk&gl=us

B

That's a possibility. But remember pollsters have a bias and a lean also. So I guess we'll never really know, we can only surmise.

Yes, JB slipped up and said torture. I wonder if he will be able to get out of it.

Polls.........Could it be possible that more people align themselves with the Dem party. Are Repub party numbers slipping? Are polls more or less a random sample? I would think you ask the question first, then you get the demographics....thus more dems than repubs. But I think this is another area where you can spin the numbers to your liking. I have never participated in a political poll. I have never been called by Gallup, Rasmussen or any of them. I've been voting for 30+ yearsand have never been polled. I do think they can be used as indicatiors to show trends. Let's face it Pres Obama has good numbers and I believe people are happy with the direction the country is going. No one can say how long that will last. Our economic recovery will be long and slow and I think we need to exercise a little patience.

Torture......We allowed and used forms of torture that were outlawed by the Geneva convention. There is no denying it. Do we prosecute? I don't know, but I think we need to investigate and if that ivestigation deems that prosecution is warranted then so be it. I think it should be an independent investigation and that should be determined by the AG's office. But then again, we may not have a choice as the world's court may trump us.

Ahhh, but it does raise the issue some Obama supporters wish not to discuss -- does Obama seemingly approachable and hospitable tact with rogue governments like those of Hugo Chavez or the Iranian midget really work to his advantage, or does the tact result in confusion around the world regarding American foreign policy and make Obama seem weak in the eyes of the world? I personally think it is a mistake for ANY American President to lower himself by even providing a chance for a photo op with the likes of a dirtbag like Chavez. Does anyone in the Obama administration really believe Chavez WON'T use the opportunity for personal gain?

I think most are aware that he would (Chavez) use these ops for political gain. My point is/was that it's how the media pounces on a story as an opportunity to sell paers, garner ratings. Think of what would have been made of a situation if Pres Obama showed disdain or shunned Chavez. It's all in how you spin it.

You have to admit, though, it is a distinctive structure, regardless of its television heritage!

Are you talking hospital or the "hallowed hallls of U$C" in south central? The hospital is a work of art. I have had the experience of visiting on one or more occasions. Architecurally the school is nice, but I really like the buidings in Westwood.

So tell me, anythoughts on the beauty pagent "controversy"? I think it's another "story" that was picked up on and thrust into the limelight. ThenJane Harmon wiretapping issue is something different. I'm still gethering information in order to formulate an opinion.

Hi Roman!

When are people like Limbaugh or Hannity NOT called out? And WHO makes their being called out a problem? I note that your beloved "Crooks and Liars" site very capably calls them out, or CNN and MSNBC, etc., without much fuss. They do it so often, it's old news.

But it's funny... I don't see anyone elsewhere in the media except Fox News calling out Keith Olberman or Gaingreen Garofoolio, and only then do they counter their points (usually by making fun of them) because they skewer FOX. Can you name for me, Roman, other legitimate mainstream news organizations that have denounced or criticized, for example, Garafoolow (to hell with the spelling again!!!) for her statements that all Republicans are racists?

And, Roman, do you agree with her statements that conservatives are all about white power and hating a black man in the oval office?

And, more importantly, how are you doing? Political debate aside... how have you been? We never really talk on a non-political basis and I really want to because I want to get along better with you. I would love a private message to just chat about life and stuff if you are up to it...

These guys are all called out on both sides. Remember, these are not "news" shows. They are commentaries. Anytime you see "The .... show", it's someone's opinion of what is going on. In this day of cable and instant access, the lines have blurred. Your right Roman, a lot of people take this stuff to heart. That is a problem. But a bigger problem is the amount of credence that is given to a minority opinion. The "tea bag" movement is less than 1% of the entire population of the US. It got coverage like it was a great part of the population. Chavez and Obama's picture made the front page of the LA Times, yet it wasn't stated that they only actually were in the same room 3 times during the summit. The appearance is that they had a love fest.

The media has a lot to do with shaping our views. They are also very concerned with making money. So, what's the motivation? I don't know. What's the story that's going to sell papers, attract viewers.

On a side note: Notice the name GD. I really don't really want to trek through the "hallowed" halls of U$C. (ever in life!)