GoldenDogs

It's really sad that despite being president for six years, there is no admission by anyone here that Obama has any responsibility for the county's current malaise.

Congratulations, Max, on the election. I had to return here to see the comments... interesting, to say the least. I applaud your ability to hang on in a forum that is largely liberal and I applaud those who tolerate your presence even more.

B

I'm glad we had a chance to interact and I wish you all the best. But I'm not going to continue to interact with you because I believe you're wrong in this and I'm committed to being a fair person and this goes against that for me. Be well!!

Typical. As another pointed out, this is a "liberal circle jerk". I see there is no room for opposing opinions. Wolves travel in packs, ya'll can hunt together... I understand. I belong with those of a like mind, as well.

Best wishes to all.

She's certainly more than capable of fighting her own battles so that's not what I'm doing....but I do find what you said offensive and extremely ill mannered and I don't care if you wish to criticize me for saying so. It's childish to call a person vile because you don't agree with that person and there really is no need to even get that personal.

Of course you're fighting her battles, Wales, because Ann never has the guts to stand up to me directly. Spineless behavior, throwing hatespeak and untruths out like that, then having someone else rush to defend. Pitiful. She IS vile; her collective comments in this forum have been divisive, hateful and would have been considered as such if her words had been uttered and charges leveled by me, Max or any other right-leaning poster against Democrats in this forum and you absolutely know that. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

Other posters here temper their remarks and, even where there is disagreement, rarely if ever stoop to the level Ann consistently does. I have had enough of it and I have and will continue to call out those who make such vile and digusting charges. It is over the top partisanship and has no place in civil discourse.

Nah, Republicans rather spill our blood and treasure over every international confrontation then turn around like Romney and refer to our physically and emotionally injured veterans as those "who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it."

Romney never said that about veterans, Ann. You are the most vile person in this forum.

Hi Jane,

The reason I more closely identify with Republicans is because many of the beliefs held by the left offend me, or I find unfortunate. I view Democrats as holding the banner for restricting the freedoms of others... ie: government intervention with everything. Obamacare is the antithesis of this. I strongly disagree with that.

I believe in personal responsibility. I don't think the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies, either. I'm not for mass abortions upon demand, however, particularly used as a form of birth control - but the government has no business telling women they can't do it. BUT the government also has no business FUNDING IT upon request. If people make a personal choice to engage in a certain behavior, then I believe they should make a personal choice to cope with the results of that behavior and not expect someone else to take care of it for them. And I'm not limiting that to just the abortion issue... it's with everything in life.

For example, a person brings in $20,000 to $30,000 a year and lives way beyond their means... buys a house with payments of, say, $3,000 a month and can't swing it... then they should LOSE the house, not qualify for some special consideration, discount, or forgiveness of the debt on your back, Jane, or mine. Sure, realtors and banks are greedy bastards and bear some responsibility - but people should be in control of their own finances and make sound decisions or face consequences. Do you get pissed at Target when they offer goods that you want but can't afford because your credit card is declined? Should they give you the products anyway and charge the next guy in line for your stuff? Of course not.

If you wish to IM me, we can talk more in depth about my beliefs. But fiscally, I'm very conservative and I strongly believe that none of the other things we all debate about in here matter much if the country financially collapses. When gas is $7.00 a gallon and it stretches your budget to feed your family, things like gay marriage, abortion, or racist "code words" really don't matter much. Likewise when a middle eastern conflict could drag us into another rotten war... I strongly believe the election was about something other than the big, important issues. THAT concerns me. The stability of our country... our safety and security (yes, even Ann and Carl's! LOL!) is something I'm concerned about.

Democrats, I fear, are not focused on the bigger picture. I worry that many Democratic voters are one-issue voters, ie: gay marriage, abortion, gun control, entitlements, etc. The behavior of the press (sorry, Carl, the media does NOT like Republicans) and the failure of journalistic integrity should concern ALL OF US. I studied journalism in school and the conduct I'm witnesses across the board is NOT how media should report. Scary. Some in the media were obviously in the tank for Obama and that is SCARY. If the mass media were in the tank for Romney, I would not have liked that, either.

So, when it comes to the big picture, I believe the Republicans see more of it. They're not perfect... I've been plenty pissed over the years at the Republicans and, for a time, considered registering as an independent. The last four years of Obama are a disappointment and his policies have NOT worked. I wonder if, four years from now, if Democrats will still blame Bush? Obama had two years of full control... he rammed Obamacare through. He could have accomplished ANYTHING he wanted during that frame of time. He chose to focus on healthcare. With all the issues of the day... the man focused on HEALTHCARE. High employment... Bush's rotten economy sinking us all... and he passes HEALTHCARE? The stimulus was a joke and only added to the debt.

I don't want to go on... you get the idea. But if there is more you wish to know, just ask. If you wish to talk privately, I'm game for that, too. :-)

I want to understand and particularly to Brian and Max(who I do respect where has he been) do you really feel your party is moving in a positive direction? Forget Obama and the racism targeted at him or the media bias you may feel he receives, I really, as someone who feels there are core values the republican party espouses that's have some value, want to understand. But do the Tea Party type policies really espouse what you feel the core of this party should be? The party of the Bush family has never preached less government have they? It was under Clinton that government spending was actually cut. They are of the belief to use government to push their principles which is not fiscal conservatism that's for sure, it's big government and social conservatism.

Bushs tax cuts have been maintained under Obama, the coffers of big business has grown, businesses as we know are cash heavy, yet none of these Bush tax cuts have encouraged businesses to invest and develop and hire and you can't blame Obama, frankly its an excuse and continues to be. The stock market is up isn't it. I see complaints about the market being down. But the Dow, NasDaq are all up from where they were 4 years ago.

I don't want to see right wing or leftist columnists preaching, I'm really interested in your thoughts. Forget Obama, hasn't the public spoken this election by pushing against the extreme right in this past election and isn't there a lesson to be learned?

Most new small businesses by the way, the foundation of America is what I keep hearing both parties talk about, are started by minorities and women, the 2 factions the republicans seem to cast aside.

Okay, I can only respond to one post. I offer something and I get half a dozen responses, sometimes multiple responses to the same post. I can't keep up with that sort of thing, so I'm picking one. Maybe that's why people like Ann sometimes don't respond to me when I ask a direct question... she's too busy trying to reply to half a dozen. Or maybe she is afraid to speak directly to me. At any rate, I'll respond do Jane, though she doesn't respect me like she does Max.

First off, my problem with Obama is his policies as a whole. If he is just another Bush, carrying forth with Bush-like policies, then why does the left love him so? Bush was loathed... Obama isn't. Why?

Economics: Where is the recovery we were promised? You say stocks are up... marginally. That's what happens when you print money and feed it to the brokers. But the "correction" is coming. You can't stimulate a faltering economy longterm by feeding it printed paper. You can't stimulate a faltering economy by increasing debt. If those policies work so well, then I personally challenge you and everyone else here, Jane, to adopt Obamanomics in your home budget. Spend money and create debt... and see how well your credit rating does. Meanwhile, I'll hold the line on debt and save money, spending it only on essentials. Then let's see who comes out the better after four years doing this, okay? The stimulus failed... and not because it wasn't big enough. If it wasn't big enough, then why didn't it help just a little rather than a lot? Seriously.

Foreign Policy: Obama has tried too hard to make our enemies like us. They don't like us. They hate us. I have issues with the way Bush conducted foreign policy, too. Stop wasting dollars on countries and foreign powers who wish to do us harm... feed and clothe people HERE first. The Middle East is exploding. He has all but turned his back on Israel, offering lukewarm support at best. The pinnacle of Obama's foreign policy failures really is Libya, which the administration is clearly dancing around. They screwed up.

Social and Domestic Issues: Hope and change ended up being more of the same, which keeps this country more divided than ever. It really begins and ends with Obamacare. The majority of people in this country did NOT want it, still don't want it, and may likely never get it anyway because it's too expensive to administer. I hope the House refuses to fund it... or fund it only if entitlements are rolled back and/or eliminated. Every bit of dissent against Obama policies are portrayed by the left as being tied to racism. Give me a break. The race card is used way too much by liberals and it has gotten old. Where is immigration reform (and I'm not talking blanket amnesty here), border control, etc.? What has Obama truly done to unite the country?

When I look at people like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, I get physically ill. These people are terrible representatives of the Democratic party. Partisan idealogues... And, yes, I feel the same about the Republican leadership. None of these people have spines and are more concerned with the party line than what is in the best interest for America. Sadly, I feel the same can be said for Obama. I don't think we quite know what Obama's true agenda is at this point.

The man's election was hardly a mandate. And 2010 wasn't so long ago that there is some suggestion that America is lurching hurriedly left. Republicans hold the house, you know, and Democrats are already expressing concern about the Senate in 2014. They should because once the majority of Americans begin to feel the heat should Obamacare move forward, they will be in trouble. I say the fate of Obamacare will actually be decided by the administration and how their chances look in 2014, the year following the first major elements of Obamacare implementation.

I hope I have answered your question. I do not personally dislike Obama; I don't know him personally. I don't like his policies. I would feel the same way if he were white, brown, green... or if he were a woman or some wild combination heretofore unknown. I lean right, not left. I'm not going to like a President who leans left, regardless of his race, religion, creed, sexual orientation, preference of food, taste in bottled water, etc. It's about policy.

I also see the real world with my own eyes... I live and work in a diverse community with diverse people... I see hard working people of all stripes, and I see leeches sucking the life out of our system, too. Black, white, brown... stood in line at Wal-Mart behind a lovely Asian woman dressed in a stunning outfit yesterday, clutching the most impressive smartphone I have ever seen... and paid for her goods with foodstamps. Don't know her story, true... but it IS odd seeing a person so well-appointed paying with food stamps. Plenty of white trash in the store, too... never a shortage of white trash, so it isn't just a "minority thing" or whatever. Everyone is sucking on the teet a little too much for a little too long. Seriously. And I absolutely believe what Romney said about those voting for "stuff" - which is why they voted for the Magic Stimulus Man. Look, it's true. Those who don't see it may be a little sheltered... my wife's parents are like that. They live in a bubble and have no clue what the rest of us are dealing with. Reality, though, will hit hard and soon enough.

Anyway, I hope, Jane, I've answered your questions. As for others I haven't responded to... I probably won't because I refuse to debate multiple points to multiple people in a single thread. I'm outnumbered here and guys like Max, with all due respect Jane, offer very little support. I disagree with Max most of the time, actually, and am not as high on him as you are. His spine is a bit too soft for me... no offense, Max, if you are hanging around.

Obama is President for four more years, so some people are going to have to get over their anger and learn to accept it, because complaining about everything little thing is not going to change that.

Every little thing, Redd? Four dead Americans - victims of a terrorist attack in Libya and subsequent coverup - is a little thing to you? Dead Israelis and Palestinians is a little thing to you? Layoffs, businesses shrinking, the stock market falling - I suppose that is all a little thing to you, as well.

Leftists certainly have their heads buried in the sand.

I've long gotten over Obama's reelection. Took me about five minutes because I then realized that, after another four years, the mantra that it is all "Bush's fault" won't work anymore. Pay close attention to the state of the economy, Redd, and take heed of unemployment numbers. Ask old folks about their medical care options a year from now. Even better, let's ask everyone a year from now how they like it. Ask those of us who work for a living how Obama's rotten policies have affected our paychecks.

We'll see where we're at four years from now... that will reveal all I think. We'll see if another four years of Obama was a smooth move.

And I'm sick and tired of the implication that a difference of an opinion means racism. Get over that crap. Those who go there are the true bigots.

I just wonder how those who spent 4 years saying Obama was Jimmy Carter will react. Is he Jimmy Carter on steroids now?

Actually, Carter, Obama is worse than Carter. And he's far more dangerous, as well.

Carter was just a simpleton. Obama is something else entirely.

Isn't the Telegraph a conservative paper? That's like saying the WSJ "overlooks" Obama's flaws. Not too often.

I don't care whether it's a "conservative" paper or a "liberal" paper, Carl. What in the article wasn't true? Answer that one for me...

It is only two weeks since his re-election, and his second term remains two months away, but Barack Obama is already blundering again on the world stage, with the kind of gaffes that would have been plastered on the front page of The New York Times if they had been committed by George W. Bush when he was in the White House. Obama's first term was littered with foreign policy gaffes, and there is every chance the second term will be more of the same.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100190254/barack-obama-blunders-again-on-the-world-stage/

It is rather embarrassing, as well as sad, that the leader of the free world can’t even pronounce the name of the most famous human rights activist on the planet. Or that he is so quick to appease Burma’s authoritarian regime by calling it “Myanmar”. Barack Obama’s gaffes demonstrate not only a marked lack of attention to detail and a high degree of amateurishness on the part of the White House, but also a disturbing willingness to curry favour with unsavoury regimes. Hardly a good omen for Obama’s second term.

Of course, all of this is overlooked in the mainstream press here in America... Obama is a media darling and, as we've seen since his rise from obscurity in 2007, the mainstream press swoons over the guy despite questionable judgement, rotten policies, and scandal everywhere you look.

I can afford my contraception so that means everyone can afford their contraception

Okay... explain to me again why the government bears a responsibility to provide contraception to someone? I mean... I need toothpaste and a toothbrush, too, but that isn't provided. Or is it?

Tampons all around? Where is the line between personal responsibility and nanny-state micromanaging? Seriously. What else should the government provide for us? I have no problem with preventing unwanted pregnancies... I applaud those who decide to use protection rather than abort a fetus as a form of birth control... but come on...

Do contraception giveaways include free condoms for every dude that wants them?

So, I'm curious how my more extreme liberal friends here in the forum will twist this whole Libya thing, ie: lies to the American people about the origin of the attack, the obvious and intentional distortion of facts, etc. I guess really the big question is: are you all satisfied and completely comfortable with the administration's response to all of this and how they have handled it all to date?

It is called being a typical Republican.

You're a doll, Ann. Your warmth and welcoming attitude is what drives me to return and participate often in this forum. And I won't even go into your keen political insights... You're so bright, I need a pair of sunglasses just to get a good look at you.

What going here is that you are pulling together lots of unrelated news in the effort to create a narrative. Correlation is not causality.

Uhhh... what's going on here is that I browsed headlines, sent a personal message to someone on here, then had about 4 minutes to post this morning so I offered up a quick summation of things I desired to discuss here. No narrative... simply questions, Marceline.

Sheesh.

Chris Matthews has been saying crap like that for years. He's been called out in private but not like he was on Twitter. He got blasted

Lord, what would the response have been had a Republican said something like this during Katrina??? Glad to see the condemnation here... but it's easy to pick on an idiot like Chris Matthews... Does ANYBODY actually take this guy seriously anymore?

Stock market in the toilet yesterday, reacting to the results of the election. Do you all think that trend will continue?

Also, I read an article this morning where a business owner fired 22 of his 114 workers in reaction to the election; the man's concern was with the cost of rules and regulations related to Obamacare. Boeing cut workers yesterday. McDonald's posted it's first sales drop in a decade.

What's going on here? Anybody else concerned with all of this?

Congrats to my Democratic friends here... It's clear Romney won't be able to pull this out but it was a close race!

One thing is for sure... the next four years will be very telling for America and for Barack Obama's agenda. We'll see if it plays out as you all wish... Here's hoping America will remain strong!

So you'll be basking baking in 92 degrees of Autumn weather.

It was HOT out there today! We were in Chino at the air museum there and it was ridiculously warm... I'd even say hot, and I know hot living in the Southern San Joaquin Valley! 92... wow! It was a little windy and was wondering if it was the fabled Santa Ana winds causing the warm conditions?!

I wish everyone here a Happy Election Day... Check in and visit with you all tomorrow morning but I'm out of gas debating. :-) Will be interesting and will be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts Wednesday morning!

In the meantime, I'll be in your neck of the woods today, Wales! I'll be thinking of you as work brings me there

Best to everyone... even Ann and Carl... LOL! We don't always agree but I respect your opinions and enjoy our exchanges!

You pretty much remind me of why I loathe partisan politics and don't wish to be associated with either party--the Republicans more so than the Democrats. Mainly because I find the Republicans to be more offensive and less conciliatory.

Sorry to be so disappointing to you, Wales.

Yeah, that's all I'd have to say at this point if I was a Republican voter, too.

Incidentally, the new PPP poll has Obama at 50, and Romney at 47.

Let me guess... another D+8 sampling?

Let's examine some other polls, too... yes, the very latest:

Politico/Washington University/Battleground - TIE

NBC News/Wall Street Journal - +1 Obama

ABC News/Washington Post - TIE

FOX News - TIE

CBS News/NY Times - +1 Obama

Pew Research - TIE

Gallup - +5 Romney

NPR - +1 Romney

And how many of these polls are ridiculously unbalanced in terms of Dem samples vs. Rep samples? The electorate of 2008 can't be measured as the electorate of today. Republican registration is way up this year and Democrat registration way down. Enthusiasm is low for Obama, high for Romney. Even in most polls where Obama is ahead, I invite you to look at the sampling - it just isn't good news for the President when he runs only a point or two ahead of Romney - and with anywhere from a +5 to +9 Democratic sample! That means more moderate Democrats are breaking from the party and voting for Romney, or not voting at all.

We also know for a fact that Independents are overwhelming in Romney's corner. There is no gender gap this time around; women are NOT favoring Obama.

These are all facts... Look beyond poll numbers and examine the data behind the polls. The answers are there, Vee.

Yes, I look at the polls everyday. I look INSIDE the polls every day. The statistical analysis is in Romney's favor, NOT Obama's. When Obama is sinking money into places like Pennsylvania, Michigan,or Wisconsin... when the President's campaign sends people to Nevada in the final days... that means something is up. For an incumbent, that's VERY bad news. The most accurate polling is the polling we're not allowed to see - that is the internal polling data taken by both Obama and Romney's campaigns. The President is very much in a defensive mode while Romney is moving in an offensive manner; the differences in how these men appear at their respective campaign rallies is obvious.

What did the polls say just prior to the 2010 election? Nancy Pelosi thought she was secure as Speaker of the House... then BOOM! That was only two years ago and the mood in the nation hasn't improved. The economy is just as bad, if not worse. The jobs picture hasn't improved. Libya happened. Sandy happened. Meanwhile, in between partying with rock stars and campaigning, Obama turned in what is arguably the worst performance EVER by an incumbent President in a debate...

You can't seriously tell me that things are looking fantastic for President Obama right now and the man will cruise to another effortless victory with a clear mandate by the American people... You can't seriously tell me that even the most Liberal hardliner isn't just a little bit uncomfortable right now...

Do you read any polls?

It's the absolute opposite and has been for several weeks. Paul Ryan has begun leaking stories about his post-election plans, and campaign staffers have begun making excuses for the disastrous campaign and claiming only Sandy won it for Obama. Obama is ahead in virtually every key state and his current odds for winning are overwhelming both among gamblers and pollsters.

This is the problem with the right wing echo chamber. You guys are shocked, shocked when you only surround yourself with 'good news' and 'unskewed' polls and come out on Election Day and find out that you haven't been paying attention.

According to the numbers uploaded by the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections 30 minutes ago (Yes. I can check these numbers every day.) 3,125 people showed up to vote today. That number exceeded the number of people who showed up on the comparable day (three days before ED) in 2008. I love Stevie Wonder but I'd rather see people at the polls than his concert.

Ahhh... you and I agree on something, Marceline! LOL! I, too, want to see a HUGE turnout for this election in Ohio and everywhere else! I'll be we also agree that this may be one of the most important elections in our lifetimes... at least to date. :-)

I have never liked Maher other than his anti-religion rants. He is generally full of [!@#$%^&*] and anyone who could be friends with Ann Coulter has to have no heart. Then, what is this about Maher having sex with black hookers? I am not thrilled with Wayne degrading black women to take Maher. Surely, he could have done without the "hooker" reference.

At last, Ann, you and I agree!!

Via www.cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Legendary performer Stevie Wonder this morning expressed his love for Cleveland during a get-out-the-vote rally at Cleveland State University.

His love went largely unrequited.

Fewer than 200 people showed up to watch Wonder perform a handful of his hits at the early voting event in support of President Barack Obama.

Most of the people had learned of the event just hours before the 9:30 a.m. start time. Some just happened to be in the area and followed the live music.

Campaign volunteer Ken Johnson asked who in the crowd had voted early before introducing Wonder.

Nearly every hand went up.

Wonder took the stage at about 10:30 a.m.

"I do a song. You go vote. You come back. We do some more music," he said before opening with "Sir Duke."

No one left to vote after the first -- or any -- song.

A shuttle meant to take voters to the nearby Cuyahoga County Board of Elections left empty after Wonder's final song, "Superstition."

Obama for America Ohio, which hosted the rally, informed its nearly 34,000 followers on Twitter about the event around 10 a.m.

"Perhaps it wasn't advertised properly, but the people who are here are fired up," said Bill Milhoan, of Mentor.

Milhoan, who said he supports Obama, was one of the few people in the crowd who have not already voted.

"It would be disingenuous to say I am here because of Obama," he said. "How do you pass up a chance to see Stevie Wonder?"

Three more days... very interesting things happening...

With momentum on Mitt Romney's side and a growing consensus that he will take the Presidency... what do those on the left attribute to Obama's downfall?

Okay, for those who refuse to accept any notion of an Obama loss... then IF he loses, what WOULD you attribute to his failure to return for a second term?

On a similar but different note... I'm reading headlines today and I see that Bill Maher said black folks would come after Romney supporters. Even in humor, I really find that offensive and not at all funny. I know where some people here come down on that sort of rhetoric... I know who doesn't agree with that type of talk - Wales, Juppiter, probably Marceline and others would clearly condemn it. I personally think it exhibits a bit of racism on Bill Maher's part... But I'm more directing the question at hard-line Liberal partisans here like Ann and Carl. How do you feel about that sort of language?

I also read that a black pastor received death threats after pulling his support of Obama. Do the hard-line Liberals here agree with that sort of behavior? Or talk of rioting, etc., if Obama loses?

This stuff, in my mind, does not reflect the views of any community - black, white, periwinkle... whatever - who has a vested interest in the election and the betterment of America. This talk, and people like Bill Maher with a platform to draw attention to it or even grow it beyond a fringe, comes from opportunists who thrive on discord and the benefit it personally brings them.

If I had to bet money on it... I'd guess that none of us here in this forum - not even hard-liners from either political stripe - approve of the sort of propoganda or behavior that incites others to violence or hurt this country. Do those here who often disagree with me politically at least agree on this point? Just askin'...

Unless you have a scandal that's easy to understand, people are less likely to follow. The main scandal people are interested in is sex. Even stuff like Abu Ghraib ultimately did not impact the elections that year.

Carl, what scandal is easy to understand? Point to me a scandal where nobody tried to cover anything up and truth and fact were laid bare for all to see...

Come on... But like I said to Wales, let's watch and wait and see what comes out. The families of those dead heroes who defied the "stand down" order won't rest until these questions are answered. You probably won't get truth until Obama is out of office... he's covering something up. He won't answer questions. What do YOU think that means?