6 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

This. Writers used to get inspired by classic books, classic plays and classic films.

Right--it's no secret just how many stories of Agnes Nixon's were inspired by other sources (going back to her Imitiation of Life OLTL storyline--if not before and don't tell me that Natalie in the well wasn't inspired by the 1800s sensation serial classic Lady Audley's Secret) But, for the most part, she did it organically. Now when that is done, it's always done with a giant, stupid, wink.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

I still believe Travis and Erica might've gone the distance, had someone not f'ed up things royally with some of the most hideous storytelling I'd ever seen on AMC. (When Erica hooking up with the man who kidnapped her daughter makes more sense than reuniting her with Travis, you know things have taken an awful turn, lol).

Did Jackson kidnap Bianca? I thought I knew this storyline but can't remember now--and PineValleyBulletin which usually is great for such facts, gives no details.

6 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

This. Writers used to get inspired by classic books, classic plays and classic films.

Dark Shadows alone was inspired by classic books (Jane Eyre, Turn of the screw, Dracula, etc), classic plays (The Crucible, Gas Light, etc), and classic films (The Undead - when Angelique frames Victoria Winters as a witch) even the Bible a bit (1897 characters of Edward and Quentin and being likened to Cain & Abel).

Even when using those works as inspiration, the writers made each story unique and they selected the right character/performer to carry it out.

I would love if a soap opera would use a more modern day book as inspiration (i.e. Bridges of Madison County would be a good template to use for a forbidden love affair... one of the hallmarks of a soap opera..imho)

On 6/7/2026 at 7:43 AM, titan1978 said:

We were a long way from the early Nixon OLTL with the structure of the show set up around the wealthy Lord family and the working class Woleks, but there was still more verisimilitude inherent in the settings and situations.

Writing for sets already up, regurgitating plot without any character specificity, not being able to use the canvas fully, and revolving the shows around generic settings has hurt the genre. But these shows used to star actors that did their own wardrobes because they were wearing their own clothes. It’s not just a budget problem.

I need to return to this and your other equally wonderful post when I have more time, but I agree 100% with everything you say. Watching the 1995 episodes it is interesting that you actually do get a sense that all of these characters actually have, you know, jobs, even if they aren't all that realistically handled. And yes, to how there's still a distinct sense of place--people's houses don't all look relatively the same, etc. These kinds of details shouldn't be so hard!

47 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

But, for the most part, she did it organically. Now when that is done, it's always done with a giant, stupid, wink.

Sometimes it wasn’t even inspired by an actual story/book/play, but it was a feeling that they took inspiration from. Gloria Monty said her ideal was a mix of Hitchcock and Capra, and that showed up on the show. Y&R was clearly inspired by old Hollywood glamour and staging, and it created a style that Bell filtered the stories through. AMC, at least up to the breakdown of the ABC soaps started, maintained that small town feel.

I read an interview once with Claire Labine and she said her inspirations were Greek tragedies and psychology, and that shows in her work and in the way the characters were explored.

Now they are inspired by their own stories. They retell stories already told better on their own shows, or borrow those winks and nods that can be fun, but shouldn’t be the whole depth of the story. They want another baby switch, another posession, another back from the dead person, another big bad villain umbrella storyline that lasts one to two years and then wraps up as the next big bad hits town.

On 6/2/2026 at 12:23 PM, titan1978 said:

It’s just striking how far we have fallen. I know the American audience is deeply divided, intolerant, and vocal about it from all ideological directions. But we had Kish, and Lulu having a teenage abortion, ATWT’s gay characters, and now I don’t think any of those stories would be told as fully or even at all.

About the working class characters, I know Valentini came up under OLTL Rauch, and that kind of stuff was not his vibe. But even with him you still had Wanda running the diner, like Ruby on GH. Viki and Dorian lived in houses so pretentious they had names, same with Erica on AMC. But we also had people living at the Pine Cone Hotel, and Angel Square. Marlena had a spacious home with Roman and then a penthouse. But she wasn’t living in the Kiriakas mansion. And Carrie/Austin/Sami lived in a perfectly believable apartment complex with roommates. There used to be layers!

I think everything you say is true, and that Frank's ADD pacing, focus on sets being up and the block taping are a big part of the execution. But in addition to not wanting to 'bore' people with long scenes, he is also much, much more scared about content than he used to be. Which you've also mentioned.

OLTL and his early GH were not afraid to do that, 10-20+ years ago. I don't think he'd dare trying the mess he and Ron pulled with Franco or DID Connie today. But sexuality, as we've all talked about, has also been downplayed. And Frank's past periods were not afraid of explicit sex or the main characters doing horrible things, as opposed to outside interlopers like Sidwell, Cyrus and so on. (who all still come off more meandering and less brutal than earlier GH villains or OLTL baddies like Mitch, Carlo, etc).

The very first little arc I'd do on GH today is one I've mentioned many times before, and one they'd probably not dare to do right now: Emma, Joss, whoever is accidentally knocked up, needs an abortion and some local right wing anti-choice measure temporarily prevents GH from acting legally. So Portia, Elizabeth, Lucas, Felicia, etc. lock down part of the hospital and do it anyway, maybe with the secret backing from Laura or even Congresswoman Willow. Shameful as it is given where we've regressed in America right now, that is a soap opera still making a statement and using its social contract with the audience. GH used to do that and still could. Frank is focused on keeping GH alive, which I can understand to a point, and isn't interested in making those statements. Sorry, but boring C-plots about endometriosis or a day of eyemites are not properly utilizing the hospital or the message platform. I will always be so grateful for how direct and powerful AMC 2.0 was with that storyline with Angie and Cassandra. I'll never forget Debbi Morgan doing direct address to the camera about Todd Akin and 'legitimate rape'. That was Agnes Nixon, and that was the power of the medium made manifest even at so late an hour for soaps.

Scrubs and the rise of Grey's were incredibly important for the show. People talk a lot about lack of hospital stories today and I agree it needs more doctor/hospital leads in A-story again. But the fact is that after the show bottomed out in 2005, hit a nadir and Steve Burton got on the phone and begged Kimberly McCullough to come back, they did a lot of what they needed to do. Scrubs became a central couple riding the Grey's wave and they built around it, adding a lot of supporting players for them at the hospital (Epiphany, Kelly Lee, Lainey Winters, etc). Liz was on staff. As two-dimensional as I found some of those added characters I did love that karaoke at Jake's or whatever became a regular thing for the GH staff players. It was almost shades of Monty's sense of community, which I'll get to below. But from '06 on the hospital became a central story hub again and has stayed that way. Contract leads under 50 either work there or are there all the time. Yes, we need more young doctor leads again, but once the hospital came back as a hub it remained and has stayed there for 20 years. I wasn't really sure that would ever happen from '00-'05.

The mention of Monty wanting to emulate Frank Capra makes a lot of sense. I talked in the Classic GH thread about how charming and spontaneous I found a lot of the constant social gatherings in early-mid '80s Monty, how unforced and loose a lot of it feels. And it's something she did again and again with various groupings that always felt very lived-in and heartwarming.

I also will say I think FV kept the working-class/underclass roots of the show very active at OLTL in its last decade. Angel Square, the Vegas, etc. all remained a major part of the show. Roxy's Hair Haven. Natalie and the McBains both came from humble roots they never forgot or fully divested from. Gigi Morasco and her son were a low-income single parent family we saw a lot of. Moe and Noelle from Paris, TX. Ex-addicts Sky and Rachel living together and friends with Kish, all of them sharing a complex (I think) with Layla and Cristian. It wasn't perfect material or story by any means, but the social stratification was still there.

A wonderful thread, and discussions like this are an essential part of the reason I stay on this forum.

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by Vee

1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

Now they are inspired by their own stories. They retell stories already told better on their own shows, or borrow those winks and nods that can be fun, but shouldn’t be the whole depth of the story. They want another baby switch, another posession, another back from the dead person, another big bad villain umbrella storyline that lasts one to two years and then wraps up as the next big bad hits town.

Yes! 100 times yes. I'm reminded of when Francesca James took over AMC as EP. Not a perfect era by any means (you already got the sense of more network interference) but she spoke about her philosophy for the show, bringing up precedents like Peyton Place (the book) for Pine Valley. You just don't get the sense of that kind of thinking anymore.

11 hours ago, EricMontreal22 said:

Did Jackson kidnap Bianca?

I wish, lol! No, it was Steven Andrews (Nicolas Coster). IIRC, Travis had hired Steven to help him stage his own kidnapping, because Travis was in financial trouble and needed the insurance money. However, things took a turn, as they say, and Steven wound up abducting Bianca instead.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, Travis and Erica got Bianca back. (I'm sorry, is my anti-Bianca bias showing again, lol?). However, when Erica learned about the part that her husband had played in the kidnapping, she took off with the baby herself. (At least, that's how I remember it. Maybe she didn't know about Travis' role at that point?). That's when she moved to Sea City, changed her name to "Sally," and got a job as a waitress to support herself and her baby. For once, Erica was sacrificing herself in order to protect her daughter, a real change from the Erica Kane of old.

In the meantime, Steven Andrews tracked her and Bianca down. Using the alias "Dave Gillis," he got close to the two; and over time, he fell in love with Erica. But Travis eventually found the three, there was a standoff between him and Steven, and (IIRC) Steven was shot and killed in the kitchen of some cruddy-looking house. The End (except for Travis' redemption arc, I think, which involved a stroke or a brain tumor (or both) and a stay at Oak Haven, where he became involved with Skye).

Edited 53 minutes ago53 min by Khan

Just now, Khan said:

I wish, lol! No, it was Steven Andrews (Nicolas Coster). IIRC, Travis had hired Steven to help him stage his own kidnapping, because Travis was in financial trouble and needed the insurance money. However, things took a turn, as they say, and Steven wound up abducting Bianca instead.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, Travis and Erica got Bianca back. (I'm sorry, is my anti-Bianca bias showing, lol?). However, when Erica learned about the part that her husband had played in the kidnapping, she took off with the baby herself. (At least, that's how I remember it. Maybe she didn't know about Travis' role at that point?). That's when she moved to Sea City, changed her name to "Sally," and got a job as a waitress to support herself and her baby. For once, Erica was sacrificing herself in order to protect her daughter, a real change from the Erica Kane of old.

In the meantime, Steven Andrews tracked her and Bianca down. Using the alias "Dave Gillis," he got close to the two; and over time, he fell in love with Erica. But Travis eventually found the three, there was a standoff between him and Steven, and (IIRC) Steven was shot and killed in the kitchen of some cruddy-looking house. The end (except for Travis' redemption arc, I think, which involved a stroke or a brain tumor (or both) and a stay at Oak Haven, where he became involved with Skye).

Was that a writer's strike story that the writers had to finish when the strike was over? Or was that a story that the writers came up with post strike?

I know Depriest was the one to pair Jack and Erica when she took over as head-writer...and it kind of made sense since they started as friends with him trying to convince Erica that Travis no longer was in love with her and eventually they fell for one another. Jack in that period had more of an edge and a ladies man aura that was nipped in the bud when Nixon came back as head writer in 1990.

I viewed their dynamic from the early 90s till the end of the show as this: Jack was Erica's fall back guy and never her first choice while Erica was Jack's true love. That Libizone story highlighted that clearly when the two were on the drug and Jack is confessing his love and desire for her while Erica calmly lets him down explaining that she cares for him..but only as a friend. Her true object of desire during that period was David Hayward.

To me, Erica's best pairings were Dimitri, David, & Travis. All three men were strong willed and didn't let her walk all over them.

3 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Was that a writer's strike story that the writers had to finish when the strike was over? Or was that a story that the writers came up with post strike?

It might've been one of those stories that started before the strike and then became a total mess once the scabs got involved. (You know, like Sonni/Solita on GL, lol?). Regardless, just the premise of Travis inadvertently causing his own daughter to be kidnapped...that's something you can't come back from as a character. They might as well have killed him off at that point.