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When did "Bold and the Beautiful" stop being good to you?


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I don't think I could add anything or put it better than what loads of you have already said because I agree with pretty much everything.

 

However the really sad thing with B&B's decline is that for every awful period that gets absolutely slated, within five years it's looked on with rose tinted spectacles because it's so superior to what has come after. 

 

For me, it felt like the rot set in around 1999 when the show became hugely Amber centric. Then into 2000-1, Macy's death, Morgan's nonsensical backstory, Stephanie's abortion tea, Deacon/Bridget...it felt like the wheels were flying off. Yet looking back on a lot of that now, it feels like it would be a fun rewatch and at least it wasn't boring.

 

Over the past year I watched all of 2005-19 that the official channel had up (with very, very frequent use of the ff button). The Liam character signified where the show just became incredibly turgid. If you look at the 2005 material and some thereafter, there is some really great stuff but I tend to credit anything positive to Patrick Mulcahey. His scripts and characterisation glossed over a lot of the structural flaws.

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2 hours ago, YRfan23 said:

I always have to agree that anything post 2003 was when the show really started to tank...even though I almost want to say like Y&R maybe  after 2005ish even. 
 

1989-1995 are probably the best years for me, but overall 1987-2002 the show was solid. 

 

I've always likened Taylor's second death to signify the death of B&B as we once knew it.

 

I'd have to say Y&R lost its must-watch factor after Tricia, Ryan, Matt, and Malcolm left the canvas in 2001/early 2002 as 2002 seemed pretty forgettable. I've been watching the Y&R 2003 playlist on YouTube and it feels like a completely different show production-wise from 2001. 2004 was pretty strange too, however 2005 was overall a pretty solid year (no surprise why they chose so many episodes from that year to air during the classics marathon).

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For me B&B was good up until 2005 may be. I lost interest after Susan Flannery left and lost interest in whatever story is happening with the recast of Ridge (2012) and Thorne (2017). 
The golden era was 1987-1998 i think. That is why i enjoy rewatching those episodes.

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B&B was good from 1987-2002. More specifically I agree with @YRfan23 1988/89-95 and then a resurgence from 98-2002. The last decent stories were the Brooke/Deacon affair and Taylor's "death". It was down hill after there for me. 2003-2008ish past the show's prime, but gold compared to today's crap.  Once Steffy/Liam/Hope took over and Ridge & Stephanie left, that was it. Anything post 2009/10 is unwatchable for me. 

 

Agreed @ChickenNuggetz92 Prime quality Y&R was up until 2001. After 2002, I noticed production values and ornate camera angles and movement vanished. It was downhill from 2002, with 2005 into early 2006 being the final nail in the coffin, to me.

Edited by ironlion
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Deteriorating started after 1993... but it was still good for at least 10 years, just... cheaper and cheaper. Then after 2005, after the death of Bill Bell it all went... bad. Like a glass of milk in the sun. I would say... It''s something like this... 2007>2006>2008>2010>2009... Then... Liam and Hope happened. So from 2011 till 2021, the show completely died. I would say the death of B&B is Bradley Bell and his creation of the Hope, Steffy and Liam triangle. And 2021, it is so cheap, so underproduced, so badly written, it doesn't deserve to be on screen. I am praying for cancellation and B&B is still my favorite show.

 

I would say from 1987 to 1993 - This is MASTERPIECE.

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12 hours ago, divinemotion said:

Deteriorating started after 1993... but it was still good for at least 10 years, just... cheaper and cheaper. Then after 2005, after the death of Bill Bell it all went... bad. Like a glass of milk in the sun. I would say... It''s something like this... 2007>2006>2008>2010>2009... Then... Liam and Hope happened. So from 2011 till 2021, the show completely died. I would say the death of B&B is Bradley Bell and his creation of the Hope, Steffy and Liam triangle. And 2021, it is so cheap, so underproduced, so badly written, it doesn't deserve to be on screen. I am praying for cancellation and B&B is still my favorite show.

 

I would say from 1987 to 1993 - This is MASTERPIECE.

Same here. Although i spent years on watching B&B

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i hope it gets cancelled lol i watch it now on fast speed like 1.75 it is bearable lol

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I don't know whether I have a specific point at which I knew the show was going downhill.

But I know the point at which I lost my connection to it - I keep watching and I have enjoyed storylines since but I do not defend it anymore.


After years of building up Brooke/Thorne - pairing that I understand not everyone enjoyed but that I was fond of - with a LOT of character destruction on that path, they broke them up in one week. ONE WEEK. Three years worth of storyline done in a number of episodes I can count on one hand.
Everything is fine then Thorne overhears a conversation one day, confronts Brooke the next. And boom they are done. After all of this. All the drama, the build-up. Macy killed and all.
That felt like both a betrayal to those who had liked the pairing for it to be discarded so abruptly and felt like such an inacceptable way to present material to the audience, period. If he wanted to break them, write a proper story, a proper breakdown of the marriage. Heck, there'd be a very in-character way to solve this: Brooke losing interest once she had Thorne and there was no threat and the marriage frays because of the lack of "challenge" that Brooke always seemed to thrive on. It could have been interesting and help explore Brooke's psyche.
But nope. ONE WEEK. They got us invested in something but another idea popped in his head and they were ready to discard years worth of material without warning and not willing to put any effort in the U-Turn. 


So I still watch and enjoy stuff. I don't like people say they hope the show gets cancelled. I'd be sad if it did and I am not losing hope some good stuff can come out of it if someone starts to tell Bell no.
But that's around the time I shed any dillusions I could be a real passionate fan of the show like I had been at times in the 90s.

Edited by FrenchBug82
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14 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

I don't know whether I have a specific point at which I knew the show was going downhill.

But I know the point at which I lost my connection to it - I keep watching and I have enjoyed storylines since but I do not defend it anymore.


After years of building up Brooke/Thorne - pairing that I understand not everyone enjoyed but that I was fond of - with a LOT of character destruction on that path, they broke them up in one week. ONE WEEK. Three years worth of storyline done in a number of episodes I can count on one hand.
Everything is fine then Thorne overhears a conversation one day, confronts Brooke the next. And boom they are done. After all of this. All the drama, the build-up. Macy killed and all.
That felt like both a betrayal to those who had liked the pairing for it to be discarded so abruptly and felt like such an inacceptable way to present material to the audience, period. If he wanted to break them, write a proper story, a proper breakdown of the marriage. Heck, there'd be a very in-character way to solve this: Brooke losing interest once she had Thorne and there was no threat and the marriage frays because of the lack of "challenge" that Brooke always seemed to thrive on. It could have been interesting and help explore Brooke's psyche.
But nope. ONE WEEK. They got us invested in something but another idea popped in his head and they were ready to discard years worth of material without warning and not willing to put any effort in the U-Turn. 


So I still watch and enjoy stuff. I don't like people say they hope the show gets cancelled. I'd be sad if it did and I am not losing hope some good stuff can come out of it if someone starts to tell Bell no.
But that's around the time I shed any dillusions I could be a real passionate fan of the show like I had been at times in the 90s.

 

Amen to this. If I recall correctly, didn't they drop Brooke/Thorne in a hurry because they wanted Brooke and Deacon to have an affair so that Bridget would find out?

 

So really, it was all destroyed for a plot point -- and to try out a Bridget-Ridge relationship which was a massive mis-step.

 

IA it would have been interesting to try out this idea that Brooke is addicted to the thrill of falling in love and competing with somebody to 'win' the guy. And with Thorne a lot of that adrenaline-fuelled anxiety went away. For better or for worse. (I liked Brooke-Thorne BTW. It made sense their coming together as two people who had been treated as outsiders by the other Forresters).

 

13 hours ago, Fevuh said:

When was the Premiere date?  That’s when it stopped being good. 1987?  Dropping the mic.  

 

Highly disagree! B&B was gripping TV from the first episode right through to the early/mid 90s. William J. Bell's masterful control on the show made it a gem. You can watch those old episodes, featuring Joanna Johnson as Caroline, for example, and still find so much to unpack and enjoy. From the direction, to the dialogue and (importantly for a Bell show) what is left unsaid -- IOW, the characters' hidden desires and frustrations.

 

Bill Bell wasn't a former Ad Man for nothing -- he was fascinated by people's psychology and why they irrationally want the things they want.

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I actually do think early Bold was kind of bad. I mean the first year or two were rough but Bill admitted he didn't really have a plan - it was rushed and felt that way, he was kind of copying character and story from Y&R. Eventually it found its groove but even after its premiere I have articles where most soap mags called it basically enjoyable trash.

 

I've always felt watching Bold, even when I enjoyed it, it was obvious Bell wasn't very passionate about the show and it was never going to be one of the great soaps. It would sometimes have great moments but it would never reach the highs that Y&R, GH, ATWT, AW and GL did.

 

Even if Thudley hadn't made it as awful as it is I have a hard time believing that in the end Bold wouldn't have just be seen as the "not nearly as good" little brother to Y&R and a soap who has Y&R to thank for its ratings (which was kind of proven true during the pandemic when Bold returned without Y&R and their ratings were in the toilet until Y&R came back)

 

Edited by Vizion
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19 minutes ago, Vizion said:

I actually do think early Bold was kind of bad. I mean the first year or two were rough but Bill admitted he didn't really have a plan - it was rushed and felt that way, he was kind of copying character and story from Y&R. Eventually it found its groove but even after its premiere I have articles where most soap mags called it basically "enjoyable trash" and "not necessarily good but entertaining."

 

I've always felt watching Bold, even when I enjoyed it, it was obvious Bell wasn't very passionate about the show and it was never going to be one of the great soaps. It would sometimes have great moments but it would never reach the highs that Y&R, GH, ATWT, AW and GL did.

 

Even if Thudley hadn't made it as awful as it is I have a hard time believing that in the end Bold wouldn't have just be seen as the "not nearly as good" little brother to Y&R and a soap who has Y&R to thank for its ratings (which was kind of proven true during the pandemic when Bold returned without Y&R and their ratings were in the toilet until Y&R came back)

 

 

I'm cool with enjoyable trash. 

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 B&B was very Dynasty-lite in its first year or so, and that was enticing to me as a kid viewer. I had also dipped into Y&R, so I was ok with the re-using of some Y&R themes on this little show. It was very easy to slip into that conjured world. From a technical POV, B&B was put together by professionals, making it a very easy, pretty, bite-size watch.

 

But I also think that B&B hit upon three women to drive the show -- Susan Flannery, Joanna Johnson and Katherine Kelly Lang. It was in their scenes that Bell's writing really perked up. Some may have thought the overall acting was bad, but I thought Flannery and Johnson in particular were very assured actresses who commanded every scene they were in, and in doing so, their screen partners stepped up, too. Ronn Moss was a walking mannequin, but he really worked hard in his scenes with both women to establish chemistry.

 

Perhaps it was never going to be great in the same way as hour-long epic shows like Y&R, GL, GH and others. And indeed, Bill Bell brought over Y&R stars like Kimberlin Brown and Tracey E Bregman to turbo-charge B&B, bring over some Y&R viewers, and make it a soap-press talking point.

 

However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder sometimes. I think there were times in those early days when B&B sparkled, while some of the other, longer shows may have got bogged down. A loyal viewership in Europe and Australia also deeply embraced B&B but other US soaps did not fare as well. Clearly it's a case of personal preference.

 

I don't disagree about B&B's lead-in, ratings-wise. Bradley owes his entire career to that lead-in.

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1 hour ago, Vizion said:

I actually do think early Bold was kind of bad. I mean the first year or two were rough 

I just remember some god awful storylines.  The girl pretending to be the hospitalized "Angela" - Stephanie's lost daughter.  And then there has always been repetitive storylines - Sally stealing the "designs".  Nothing beats though Stephanie being homeless.  I still crack up over that.  She loses her memory and is in a homeless shelter right there in L.A. - and the Forresters are supposedly known the World over and famous but no one recognizes her.  It was just so silly.  And what someone said - copycat ideas from Y&R.  Older woman vs. younger woman (Kay/Jill, and on B&B they did Stephanie/Brooke)...And Ron Moss has to be the worst actor ever to last so long.  I said for years if it had been primetime, B&B would have gotten cancelled or had multiple airtime zone switches for dropping the lead-in that Y&R gave it.  They bumped ATWT's airtime to put B&B after Y&R or after the noon news in places...meanwhile they sandwiched Capitol between ATWT and GL and never gave it the benefit of following Y&R.  

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------Also When The Bold and the Beautiful(B&B) Stopped Being Good To Me Are:------

When Bradley Gotten Rid Of All The Fashion Shows and Behind The Scenes/Curtains Things About The Fashion Shows

 

When Bradley Bell Bell Made All The Women Past and Preston On B&B Either Weak and Desperate and Obsessive Or Psychotically Deranged Or Whiney, Twitty, Nit-Witty, Slutty, Weepy, Whorishly, Bimboey Airheads

 

When Bradley Bell Treats Children, Dating Relationships, Marriages, Divorces, Funeral, Death Like Expired Food To Be Discarded and Thrown Away Without Any Decades Of Mention and After Thoughts

 

When Bradley Bell Obliterated All Of His "Late" Father and Mother's(Bill Bell and Lee Phillip Bell Who Created Both Y&R and B&B)Legacies On Show

 

When Bradley Bell Obliterated All Of B&B Identity On The Show

 

When Bradley Bell Character Assassinate Extremely Too Much and Have B&B Male and Female Characters Doing Things That Are Out Of Character For Them To Do and Kill The Essence Of Their Characters

 

When Bradley Bell Refuses To Use All Of Their B&B Cast and Give Way More Screen Time/Air Time and Not Ever Keep Them On The Backburner Never Ever Again and Actually Give Storylines With Substance and Depth To Them, So That They Won't Never Ever Leave The Show

 

When Bradley Bell Refuses To Uses All Of B&B and All Of B&B Male and Female Character Histories in A Awesome, Cool, Excellent, Spectacularly Sensational Ways To Remind Newer Viewers Who The B&B Male and Female Characters Are and Why They Hate Or Despise Each Other and All Of Their Past Present Crimes?

 

When Bradley Bell Refuses To Step Down As Executive Produce So That The Show Can Get A Real Serious Rebooting Or Revamping Of The Entire Show and Really Bring Back The Real B&B

 

When CBS-TV Network Or Phillip-Bell Productions Company Refuse To Fire Bradley Bell For How God-Awful He Is and Replace Him To Bring Back The Real B&B

 

When Bradley Bell Refuses To Bring Back All Of The B&B Characters Permanently That Make The Show Such An Spectacularly Sensational Soap Opera, Characters Like: Kristen Forrester Dominguez(Recast The Role), Felicia Forrester(Lesli Kay), Throne Forrester(Recast The Role), Rick Forrester, Ivy Forrester, Jessica Forrester, RJ Forrester(Recast The Role), Bridget Forrester, Nick Marone, Jack Marone(Cast The Part Of Brooke Logan Forrester and Nick Marone's teenage or Adult Son), Jackie Payne Marone Knight, Dr. Taylor Hayes(Hunter Tylo), Clarke Garrison, CJ Garrison, Deacon Sharpe, Amber Moore, Whipple "Whip" Jones III, A Very Much Alive Macy Alexander, CJ Garrison, Oliver Jones, The Entire Avant Family Including Sasha Alexander, Justin Barber, Jared Maxwell, Alison Montgomery, Etc.

 

When Bradley Bell Refuses To Expand B&B To An Hour For What Ever Stupid and Asinine Reasons Bradley Bell Has Not Do So To Finally Make Us Fans/TV Viewers Happy

 

When Bradley Bell Obliterated All Of The Real Drama and Conflict That Made Us Fans/TV Viewers Keeps Tuning Into Watching The Show

 

When Bradley Bell Stop Having and Showing Location Shoots

 

When Bradley Bell Have Things Having On B&B and B&B Male and Female Characters To Them Off Screen and Not On Screen In The Episodes Of The Show

 

When Bradley Bell Speed Through Storylines and Don't Properly Let The Storyline Unfold Naturally and Sensationally Write Storylines and Don't Uses All The Beats Of Storylines

 

When Bradley Bell Stop Having On B&B Older B&B Characters In Eric Forrester, Stephanie Douglas Forrester, Bill Spencer Sr., Margo Lynley Spencer, Sally Spectra(Darlene Conely), Ann Douglas(Betty White), Pamela Douglas, Charlie Webber's Category

 

When Bradley Bell Refuses To Fans/TV Viewers About Ending Never Ending and D. O. A.(Dead On Arrival)Storylines and Love Triangles Just To Torture and Make Us Fans/Viewers Angry

 

When Bradley Bell Refuses To Add Gays, Lesbians, Bi-Sexuals, Transsexuals, Transvestite, Cross Dressers, Drag Queens, Female Impersonators, Transgenders, Hermaphrodites, Etc.

 

When Bradley Refuses To Look At The Household Ratings and The Ratings In All Age Demographics Really Fix B&B and Really Get and Keep Lapsing Fans/TV Viewers To Come Back Permanently

 

When Bradley Refuses Diversify In front Of and Behind The Scenes Of Casts and Crews and Storylines To Look More Like United States Of America

 

When Bradley Bell Refuses To Add Handicap and Disabled Characters and and Write Them Mulifactedly and To Their Strengths and Showing Off Their Spectacularly Sensational Talents and Acting Abilities

 

When Bradley Bell Refuse To Respect and Value Those Sensational B&B Actors and Actresses and Their B&B Characters and Give Them Way More To Do and Just Let Them Languish With Their Screen Time/Air Time Cut Until They Refuse To Do The God-Awful Script Materials, Just They Get Fed Up and Leave The Show and Never Ever Come Back

 

When Bradley Bell Refuse To Extremely and Severely Punish  B&B Male and Female Characters For Their Heinous and Despicable Crimes and Actions, Characters Like: The Entire Forrester Family, The Entire Logan Family, The Entire Spencer Family, Zoe Buckingham, Etc.

 

 

 

 

Edited by ccroom50
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