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Y&R: RIP Kristoff St John


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6 minutes ago, Khan said:

I am so damn sick and tired of people taking it upon themselves to dictate what is and is not appropriate for this-or-that thread, as if they own this godforsaken board.

 

You don't think this is the right time or place to discuss TPTB's treatment of KSJ, Victoria Rowell or any other African-American actors, in daytime or in general?  Fine.  Duly noted.  Now, either ignore the ongoing discussion, or participate in a different thread.  Either way, shut the hell up -- because, frankly, my dear, no one gives a damn.

 

 

Believe me, if KSJ has gone to "a better place," then he's resting just fine.

 

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54 minutes ago, BellaCuore said:

 

I never said you couldn't. I just felt there is a time and place as this is his thread to honor him that was all....

 

I guess we just see it different as this is about his resting in peace thread. I guess you don't see it that way but that is OK.....

 

I may not agree with you but it that is OK.....I also may not agree about certain other things but I am for civil rights for ALL people.... was brought up that way wouldn't ever change that.... then again even if I wasn't I know my heart and mind would have been that way already....I also may not agree that everything had to do with race …..but I am I really good and fair person who doesn't label races EVER and loves people who are good nomatter their race,  religion.

 

No point in carrying on, I am sure you get my point....

 

May Kristoff rest peacefully

 

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. You expect us to talk about KSJ but never mention what his representation meant for black people in daytime? Some people have the luxury of loving KSJ/Neil without the added weight of finally seeing someone who looks like them on the show or even seeing someone but not noticing.  That's great. But resenting others who have an added bonus of seeing and noticing and speaking appreciatively of it along with calling out TPTB for how they treated him and black characters is the very definition on the worst kind of privilege. Everyone doesn't have to love or speak about KSJ the way you do. They are allowed different emotions. Your way isn't the only right way.  

 

As you should be able to tell by now from all the black actors from daytime who spoke out, KSJ knew what he meant for black folks and the genre. He knew!  Rome Flynn spoke about how KSJ pulled him aside to discuss the responsibility he carried being a black male in daytime and what that meant. KSJ respected that. But because it makes you uncomfortable, you want us to ignore an integral part of KSJs career and Neil's existence. To do so makes it more about you than him. And it ain't about you! 

 

Honoring KSJ without mentioning his legacy of representation is like honoring MLK without mentioning the civil Rights movement. Like I said, ridiculous! 

1 hour ago, DeeeDee said:

 

No. They wouldn't have. A huge number of stories were dropped and/or changed due to Bill's illness.

 

Mmmhmm. *skeptical*

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That’s a load. If TPTB want to tell a story they’ll tell a story, they didn’t want to tell the story of John and Mamie.

 

And I’m sure there are a ton of black women named Mamie just as there are a ton of Tyrones and Jeromes but look at the optics of it. She’s one of the few black people and she’s a maid/caretaker. It was not a good look.

 

43 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

Anyways, I don't think much thought has gone into recent naming. But I think someone like Bill Bell would have put alot of thought into. I still can't get over Lily's children being named Charles and Matilda. The only two born during that time who wasn't given a family name amongst the Fenmores, Summers, Johns, Katherines, Adams, and Christians. I mean really, after Nicholas and Noah having the middle name Christian, did we need another one?

 

I think we can tell how much the show cares about characters based on the names they are given. 

 

If the show didn’t hate Victoria Rowell so much Lily would have most certainly named one of her children after her mother. But no, they act like she never even had a mother. She just sprung forth from Neil’s loins. It’s sickening. On other shows, even when actors have left less than amicably, they still mention the character from time to time.

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14 minutes ago, Darn said:

And I’m sure there are a ton of black women named Mamie just as there are a ton of Tyrones and Jeromes but look at the optics of it. She’s one of the few black people and she’s a maid/caretaker. It was not a good look.

 

Exactly.  Mam(m)ie was just a kerchief on the head and a pancake mix away from being good reason to burn down Television City.

Edited by Khan
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1 hour ago, Khan said:

I am so damn sick and tired of people taking it upon themselves to dictate what is and is not appropriate for this-or-that thread, as if they own this godforsaken board.

 

You don't think this is the right time or place to discuss TPTB's treatment of KSJ, Victoria Rowell or any other African-American actors, in daytime or in general?  Fine.  Duly noted.  Now, either ignore the ongoing discussion, or participate in a different thread.  Either way, shut the hell up -- because, frankly, my dear, no one gives a damn.

 

 

Believe me, if KSJ has gone to "a better place," then he's resting just fine.

 

I didn't try to dictate anything. I gave my opinion on something but I wasn't do blatantly rude as you to me to shut hell up.....It's funny you not once answer my post but only to insult and tell me to shut the hell up? I thought I was allowed as other posters said to speak my opinion.

 

I guess not cause it showed here you have zero self control and attacked me just because I mentioned it was an honor thread for him....I have never told anybody what to post but if somebody is going to insult things and expect me not to give my opinion I feel it's wrong and to attack me as you have is blatantly wrong. I didn't attack anybody I spoke my peace and was explaining myself to whom questioned me.

 

I wont speak of VR and her issues as I feel it's not the place but I don't feel KsJ was treated badly as he never had issues with TPTB, he was on the show and obviously shown very happy with the cast for 28 years in interviews and videos.

 

No need to attack and hurl insults as well as to tell me to "shut the hell up" as nobody cares what I have to say... Thank you for that.....

Edited by BellaCuore
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This is why it’s so important to have people of color in front of AND behind the scenes. Let’s assume Bill Bell meant no ill will (I don’t think he did but he knew exactly what he was doing. I don’t know why we make excuses for someone who exclusively wrote for white people for 30 some odd years) having someone black in the room may have highlighted how problematic Mamie was or Kong or Dru being an illiterate runaway were. 

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46 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

I just still can't believe he's gone

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  it's one of those weird moments now, when I realize how real this is...

 

+1......

1 hour ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. You expect us to talk about KSJ but never mention what his representation meant for black people in daytime? Some people have the luxury of loving KSJ/Neil without the added weight of finally seeing someone who looks like them on the show or even seeing someone but not noticing.  That's great. But resenting others who have an added bonus of seeing and noticing and speaking appreciatively of it along with calling out TPTB for how they treated him and black characters is the very definition on the worst kind of privilege. Everyone doesn't have to love or speak about KSJ the way you do. They are allowed different emotions. Your way isn't the only right way.  

 

As you should be able to tell by now from all the black actors from daytime who spoke out, KSJ knew what he meant for black folks and the genre. He knew!  Rome Flynn spoke about how KSJ pulled him aside to discuss the responsibility he carried being a black male in daytime and what that meant. KSJ respected that. But because it makes you uncomfortable, you want us to ignore an integral part of KSJs career and Neil's existence. To do so makes it more about you than him. And it ain't about you! 

 

Honoring KSJ without mentioning his legacy of representation is like honoring MLK without mentioning the civil Rights movement. Like I said, ridiculous! 

 

Mmmhmm. *skeptical*

 

NO you didn't get my post. I meant speaking of other peoples issues other than KSJ...I don't want to dictate anything at all but I was just offering an opinion...I never told people they can't and I wouldn't, just my opinion is all. I would not try to dictate anything....

 

I also didn't say my way was the only way. I wouldn't say or feel that.

 

You are "twisting completely" what I felt was right in my opinion.....Then to say that I think..... my way is the only way which I didn't ever say nor would I nor do I feel that....I don't know where you got that from?

 

Just trying to bring peace and bring peeps together. I guess it didn't work out too well....

 

Which I see I was attacked for and also cause I answer people some think I am trying to have the last word??? Geeze....I was not, just being polite to answer and explain but as I am told "nobody gives a damn  what I think" and "I should shut the hell up"...Hurtful.  No matter the difference in opinion.... I wouldn't say that to somebody...

 

Goodnight.

 

 

Edited by BellaCuore
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11 minutes ago, Darn said:

This is why it’s so important to have people of color in front of AND behind the scenes. Let’s assume Bill Bell meant no ill will (I don’t think he did but he knew exactly what he was doing. I don’t know why we make excuses for someone who exclusively wrote for white people for 30 some odd years) having someone black in the room may have highlighted how problematic Mamie was or Kong or Dru being an illiterate runaway were. 

Definitely. It would also depend on how empowered the black writers/producers would feel to speak truth to power without repercussions. So many people would just go along to get along.

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36 minutes ago, Darn said:

That’s a load. If TPTB want to tell a story they’ll tell a story, they didn’t want to tell the story of John and Mamie.

 

And I’m sure there are a ton of black women named Mamie just as there are a ton of Tyrones and Jeromes but look at the optics of it. She’s one of the few black people and she’s a maid/caretaker. It was not a good look.

 

 

If the show didn’t hate Victoria Rowell so much Lily would have most certainly named one of her children after her mother. But no, they act like she never even had a mother. She just sprung forth from Neil’s loins. It’s sickening. On other shows, even when actors have left less than amicably, they still mention the character from time to time.

 

They could have named either the boy or girl Winter. I mean, since they had a trend of giving maiden names as first names. The boy could have been given Neil or Malcolm as a middle name...or even Ethan, canes real name. But nope. The show just didn't care about those kids. 

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The level of enmity and pettiness is what rankles me. OK, so TPTB hate VR. Fine. She’ll never be on the show again. But to basically retcon Dru’s existence off the show? A character who was so important to not only Neil, Devon, and Lily, but also Sharon and Phyllis? Hardly a week goes by without a John Abbott reference.

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In the Classic SOD thread, Kristoff's casting notice for Y&R was posted around the same time as his death.  I found it remarkable that his casting was announced in the SOD issue immediately after the end of Generations.  Also, that he was not a contract player at first makes his continuity even more of an accomplishment

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9 minutes ago, j swift said:

In the Classic SOD thread, Kristoff's casting notice for Y&R was posted around the same time as his death.  I found it remarkable that his casting was announced in the SOD issue immediately after the end of Generations.  Also, that he was not a contract player at first makes his continuity even more of an accomplishment

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Let's just say, the storyline TOOK off! 

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