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Y&R March 2018 Discussion

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6 hours ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

The way he constantly berates her, for starters. I'd say choking her against the wall qaulifies. Before that, he verbally abused her. What person constantly throws another's faults in their face daily? 

 

JT doesn't berate her. He's ALWAYS felt that way about her relationship with her family & in this current story SHE used him and then repeatedly LIED to him while he defended her to EVERYONE about what she'd done.


And if throwing another's faults in their face daily makes them abusive then Victoria is abusive of Ashley. Because there hasn't been a moment since Ashley returned to Newman that Victoria hasn't reminded whoever would listen that Ashley is a terrible person.

 

The choking doesn't count. I was talking about before this week's 'choking' and marriage proposal.

Edited by DeeeDee

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I may think the story is character assassination based on the past and I may not be a fan of Heinle's work as Victoria, but I'm not sure there's any way most of us can shrug off JT choking Victoria and putting his fist in the wall next to her face. Whether or not it's OOC it's now what's happened, it's not going to be retconned. And no woman deserves or invited that, not even if she's played by Amelia Heinle.

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7 hours ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

The way he constantly berates her, for starters. I'd say choking her against the wall qaulifies. Before that, he verbally abused her. What person constantly throws another's faults in their face daily? 

The way he questioned her interactions with Billy was a huge sign. I wouldn't exactly call it abuse, but it was an attempt to control. 

32 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

And if throwing another's faults in their face daily makes them abusive then Victoria is abusive of Ashley. Because there hasn't been a moment since Ashley returned to Newman that Victoria hasn't reminded whoever would listen that Ashley is a terrible person.

 

 

But Victoria and Ashley aren't partners.  If the person you are having sex with feels the need to tell you everything you are doing wrong, instead of being on your side,  it's time to dump them.

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15 minutes ago, Juliajms said:

The way he questioned her interactions with Billy was a huge sign. I wouldn't exactly call it abuse, but it was an attempt to control. 

But Victoria and Ashley aren't partners.  If the person you are having sex with feels the need to tell you everything you are doing wrong, instead of being on your side,  it's time to dump them.

 

Why is JT wrong for questioning Billy's interactions with Victoria? He's NEVER liked Billy.

 

Plus Victoria acted the EXACT same way about having Phyllis around their kids when Y&R was pressing the Villy/Philly love triangle.

 

Everyone who is in a relationship with a Newman complains about The Newmans interfering in their relationship to their respective Newman partner. EVERY LAST ONE.

 

From Jack to Diane to Paul to Leanna to Ashley to Ryan to Sharon to Cole to Phyllis, to Brad, to Chelsea, etc.

 

Nothing prior to the choking & fist in the wall was abusive or controlling.

 

Nor is this about Heinle's acting.

 

It's about applauding horrible character destroying writing because it provides a mediocre actress a couple of days of semi-interesting story.

 

Six months after JT is dead this story will have little impact & everyone here will act as if they weren't justifying it.

Edited by DeeeDee

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My question(s) are--

 

Where is this story actually going?   Other than an attempt to make up for a sweeps storyline that didn't pan out? Emmy bait?

 

Is this really Victoria's story?  Or will it pan out the way Y&R's usually do as of late-- with the story ostensibly starting out as a woman's story before shifting to a male character?

 

Will Y&R explore the obvious fact that Victoria's daddy is an abuser as a possibility as to why she'd be draw to stay in this type of a relationship?

 

Will we know what exactly led J.T. down this route? Or are we supposed to fill-in-the-blanks the way we've had to with all the other offscreen stories that have taken place under Mal (e.g. Nick and Arturo's blossoming friendship being the latest example).

 

These are just a few of the questions that popped on as I've been watching scenes and reading summaries.

Edited by DramatistDreamer

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21 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

My question(s) are--

 

Where is this story actually going?   Other than an attempt to make up for a sweeps storyline that didn't pan out? Emmy bait?

 

Is this really Victoria's story?  Or will it pan out the way Y&R's usually do as of late-- with the story ostensibly starting out as a woman's story before shifting to a male character?

 

Will Y&R explore the obvious fact that Victoria's daddy is an abuser as a possibility as to why she'd be draw to stay in this type of a relationship?

 

Will we know what exactly led J.T. down this route? Or are we supposed to fill-in-the-blanks the way we've had to with all the other offscreen stories that have taken place under Mal (e.g. Nick and Arturo's blossoming friendship being the latest example).

 

These are just a few of the questions that popped on as I've been watching scenes and reading summaries.

Co-sign. It’s hard to tell what’s going on here mid-story, but some of what I’m seeing (and hearing in terms of spoilers) doesn’t look promising.

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Some of those questions should already have clear answers despite being mid-story. 

It should already be very clear whose story the DV is about yet from the moment we know that Victor has put surveillance in Victoria's house, it becomes muddled and the only thing that can be gleaned is that there will likely be a shift in focus. 

 

I expect a similar shift in Hilary's baby story now that Cane is also in on it, courtesy of Lily.

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1 hour ago, DeeeDee said:

 

Why is JT wrong for questioning Billy's interactions with Victoria? He's NEVER liked Billy.

 

Plus Victoria acted the EXACT same way about having Phyllis around their kids when Y&R was pressing the Villy/Philly love triangle.

 

Everyone who is in a relationship with a Newman complains about The Newmans interfering in their relationship to their respective Newman partner. EVERY LAST ONE.

 

From Jack to Diane to Paul to Leanna to Ashley to Ryan to Sharon to Cole to Phyllis, to Brad, to Chelsea, etc.

 

Nothing prior to the choking & fist in the wall was abusive or controlling.

 

Nor is this about Heinle's acting.

 

It's about applauding horrible character destroying writing because it provides a mediocre actress a couple of days of semi-interesting story.

 

Six months after JT is dead this story will have little impact & everyone here will act as if they weren't justifying it.

 

+1

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56 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Some of those questions should already have clear answers despite being mid-story. 

It should already be very clear whose story the DV is about yet from the moment we know that Victor has put surveillance in Victoria's house, it becomes muddled and the only thing that can be gleaned is that there will likely be a shift in focus. 

 

I expect a similar shift in Hilary's baby story now that Cane is also in on it, courtesy of Lily.

I'm hoping Cane's involvement ends with Devon punching him in the face.

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3 hours ago, DeeeDee said:

 

JT doesn't berate her. He's ALWAYS felt that way about her relationship with her family & in this current story SHE used him and then repeatedly LIED to him while he defended her to EVERYONE about what she'd done.


And if throwing another's faults in their face daily makes them abusive then Victoria is abusive of Ashley. Because there hasn't been a moment since Ashley returned to Newman that Victoria hasn't reminded whoever would listen that Ashley is a terrible person.

 

The choking doesn't count. I was talking about before this week's 'choking' and marriage proposal.

 

Telling everyone who would listen is not the same as telling Ashley. Had you said Victoria told Ashley these things daily, then you'd have a semi similar situation.  I don't care whether he has always felt that way about her family or not, the point is he talks to her like a dog. If Victoria was a 14 year old child, there is no way you would be defending what JT is doing. 

 

But, let's say what you're saying is valid. That JT has not abused Victoria. why did you spend the past month saying this abusive and controlling behavior from JT was ooc? Weren't you one of the main people saying that the story would have been better served told using Michael and Lauren or Kevin?

2 hours ago, DeeeDee said:

 

Why is JT wrong for questioning Billy's interactions with Victoria? He's NEVER liked Billy.

 

Plus Victoria acted the EXACT same way about having Phyllis around their kids when Y&R was pressing the Villy/Philly love triangle.

 

Everyone who is in a relationship with a Newman complains about The Newmans interfering in their relationship to their respective Newman partner. EVERY LAST ONE.

 

From Jack to Diane to Paul to Leanna to Ashley to Ryan to Sharon to Cole to Phyllis, to Brad, to Chelsea, etc.

 

Nothing prior to the choking & fist in the wall was abusive or controlling.

 

Nor is this about Heinle's acting.

 

It's about applauding horrible character destroying writing because it provides a mediocre actress a couple of days of semi-interesting story.

 

Six months after JT is dead this story will have little impact & everyone here will act as if they weren't justifying it.

 

You've got to give a damn about JT to go back on that opinion. I don't. He's a peripheral character that nobody even missed when he was gone these past 7 years because nobody was clamoring to have him back. He left on a whimper and came back on whimper. So, in 6 months time, I'll still say this story was brave and edgy to tell. 

 

P.S. providing a mediocre actresses story?...your disdain for Amelia heinle is showing. Doesn't bother me at all because I have no love for her either. Lol 

2 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

My question(s) are--

 

Where is this story actually going?   Other than an attempt to make up for a sweeps storyline that didn't pan out? Emmy bait?

 

Is this really Victoria's story?  Or will it pan out the way Y&R's usually do as of late-- with the story ostensibly starting out as a woman's story before shifting to a male character?

 

Will Y&R explore the obvious fact that Victoria's daddy is an abuser as a possibility as to why she'd be draw to stay in this type of a relationship?

 

Will we know what exactly led J.T. down this route? Or are we supposed to fill-in-the-blanks the way we've had to with all the other offscreen stories that have taken place under Mal (e.g. Nick and Arturo's blossoming friendship being the latest example).

 

These are just a few of the questions that popped on as I've been watching scenes and reading summaries.

 

You're a writer who thinks like one. Unfortunately, Y&R writers long stopped  telling complete stories by having plot points make sense and given characters reasons for actions. 

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Some of those questions should already have clear answers despite being mid-story. 

It should already be very clear whose story the DV is about yet from the moment we know that Victor has put surveillance in Victoria's house, it becomes muddled and the only thing that can be gleaned is that there will likely be a shift in focus. 

 

I expect a similar shift in Hilary's baby story now that Cane is also in on it, courtesy of Lily.

 

Most definitely a shift in Hilary's story. The show writes for white men as much as possible. So expect Hilary vs cane AGAIN. I'd almost let it slide if it was Devon vs cane. But it won't be. 

Edited by ajsp35801

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2 hours ago, DeeeDee said:

 

Why is JT wrong for questioning Billy's interactions with Victoria? He's NEVER liked Billy.

 

Plus Victoria acted the EXACT same way about having Phyllis around their kids when Y&R was pressing the Villy/Philly love triangle.

 

 

Who cares if JT likes Billy? The way he questioned her about it is the issue.  He was acting jealous and trying to isolate her. It was plain as day. Victoria questioning who is around her children is a completely different issue. What responsible parent doesn't do that? Phyllis has tried to kill people.

 

As for this being a brave and edgy story. Eh. There are a hundred lifetime movies on this issue.  Edgy would be bringing JT back as a pedophile who goes after Johnny and Katie. That's a story Y&R should tell with a character we think we know, but they don't dare.

 

I saw MTS said people don't like this story because it makes them uncomfortable. :rolleyes: I wonder how MTS would like it if her character found watching the grand kids a bit stressful and she started hitting them? I bet she would find that OOC, but hey, that's realistic too.

 

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44 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

Telling everyone who would listen is not the same as telling Ashley. Had you said Victoria told Ashley these things daily, then you'd have a semi similar situation.  I don't care whether he has always felt that way about her family or not, the point is he talks to her like a dog. If Victoria was a 14 year old child, there is no way you would be defending what JT is doing. 

 

But, let's say what you're saying is valid. That JT has not abused Victoria. why did you spend the past month saying this abusive and controlling behavior from JT was ooc? Weren't you one of the main people saying that the story would have been better served told using Michael and Lauren or Kevin?

 

You've got to give a damn about JT to go back on that opinion. I don't. He's a peripheral character that nobody even missed when he was gone these past 7 years because nobody was clamoring to have him back. He left on a whimper and came back on whimper. So, in 6 months time, I'll still say this story was brave and edgy to tell. 

 

P.S. providing a mediocre actresses story?...your disdain for Amelia heinle is showing. Doesn't bother me at all because I have no love for her either. Lol 

 

Ashley is included in telling everyone who would listen about how much she dislikes Ashley. They haven't had one non nastyinteraction since Ashley returned to Newman. The ONLY reason Victoria stopped being so hostile is so she could keep her job. Not because she felt she was wrong or was upset about being caught but so that Victor wouldn't outright fire her.

 

JT does NOT talk to Victoria like a dog. Outside of criticizing what she eats he's been very supportive of Victoria since his return.

 

They've worked at co-parenting Reed, he's largely been civil to Billy despite neither of them every liking or trusting the other & been respectful of her family despite their meddling in Victoria & JT's family/relationship.

 

Ever since JT moved in with Victoria she's been undermining him and playing HIM for a fool.

 

It was her that used him as a weapon in her war against Ashley, it was her that repeatedly lied to him about her culpability in the Newman drama, it was her who constantly interfered in his marriage to Mackenzie despite him asking her to let him deal with it.

 

But because AH is such a dour low energy actress her Victoria gets away with things a stronger actress would be held accountable for.

 

So because you didn't like and/or care about JT that makes the current regime's treatment of the character ok? If that's the case NOBODY should be complaining about the writing of any regime that followed Bill Bell.

 

Also I never said the story would be better served with Michael or Kevin. Another SON poster said that. However, I do agree those characters do have previous histories that would better serve this particular story.

 

What I've have always said from the very beginning is that it's not necessary to tell this story BUT that if the writers felt it needed to be told they should do it with a stronger actress and with characters that make sense.

 

Referring to AH as mediocre isn't a slam. It's recognition that she isn't suited to carry a show.


That's a big difference from saying she's bad. Mediocre means average which is exactly what she is.

20 minutes ago, Juliajms said:

Who cares if JT likes Billy?

 

It matters if JT is trying to be in a relationship with Victoria.

 

It also matters that Billy & JT had an ugly history LONG before either became involved with Victoria.

 

Acting as if their shared history is irrelevant is ridiculous. Nobody would do that for Nikki & Ashley, Cricket & Phyllis, Michael & Paul, Jack & Victor, Katherine & Jill, Mackenzie & Brittany, etc. Why should Billy & JT be any different?

 

Just as you mentioned that Victoria had the right to be concerned about who her kids were around, JT has the right to take issue with Billy. An individual who has both access and influence to both his ex-wife and son & has repeatedly exhibited terrible judgement & reckless behavior. He's not an attempted murderer like Phyllis but he's certainly someone any responsible parent would have take issue with.

 

And Victoria had no problem inserting herself into Billy & Phyllis relationship before she and JT resumed their relationship. Was Victoria attempting to isolate Billy?

Edited by DeeeDee

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24 minutes ago, Juliajms said:

Who cares if JT likes Billy? The way he questioned her about it is the issue.  He was acting jealous and trying to isolate her. It was plain as day. Victoria questioning who is around her children is a completely different issue. What responsible parent doesn't do that? Phyllis has tried to kill people.

 

As for this being a brave and edgy story. Eh. There are a hundred lifetime movies on this issue.  Edgy would be bringing JT back as a pedophile who goes after Johnny and Katie. That's a story Y&R should tell with a character we think we know, but they don't dare.

 

I saw MTS said people don't like this story because it makes them uncomfortable. :rolleyes: I wonder how MTS would like it if her character found watching the grand kids a bit stressful and she started hitting them? I bet she would find that OOC, but hey, that's realistic too.

 

 

I call it brave and edgy because it's the kind of story we don't see much in daytime with characters we've known since teens. I think the complaints about using JT kinda sorta backs up my opinion. No? 

Edited by ajsp35801

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Well CBS broke into the show with Trump just now. So lame and unnecessary in a world where you can get news from a thousand different sources.

 

I bet MY is furious that his massive reset has been overshadowed in several major markets.

 

But I was going to say that this show today felt like someone hit the FF button and it got stuck.

Edited by Faulkner

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