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Y&R March 2018 Discussion

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1 minute ago, KMan101 said:

 

+1

 

 

While I am sure she will rise to the occasion, I dread today's episode.  No matter how meek they try to write her...and the buildup to it happening as a writer has been understandable...it just isn't Victoria. I can see other women on the current canvas (other than Hillary) falling into an abusive relationship character-wise than Victoria.

1 minute ago, Ponds said:

I think Lily should start putting birth control pills into Hillary's coffee!!!

LOL!!! I wouldn't put it past her now.

 

I admit...I don't mind a scheming Lily. Anything other than Stepford Wive Lily.

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Christel's one of those weaker actresses who play scheming bitch better. I've never been fond of whiny Lily. I wanted Dru's daughter to be stronger. Hilary is more like Dru's daughter than her own daughter.

 

It was only a matter of time before MY started down the Pratt path. He likely wants to shock and awe and try to raise the ratings. He wasn't doing the worst job on his own at first, it was a bit rusty but I was kinda getting into it, sort of, but I've definitely lost a lot of interest.

 

I'm really annoyed ice queen Victoria didn't last because it suits Heinle and I honestly was starting to come around ... but all I see is her getting told she's awful for being a strong and confident business woman. Sure she has terrible people skills at times, but it seems all about beating a strong character down and I hate it (like with Hilary). Not that a strong person can't fall victim to an abuser. But it never made sense for it to be Victoria, IMHO. Heather's Victoria would rip JT's balls off right then and there. LOL

Edited by KMan101

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Just to play devil’s advocate: I sort of get what MY is trying to do, in that Victoria is someone we’d think would be the least likely victim of domestic violence superficially. A “strong business woman” wouldn’t “let” her husband hit her, right? I suspect many have, and the #metoo movement has exposed some very unlikely victims. “If it could happen to Victoria, it could happen to anyone.” It would be easier to have it be Tessa or Mariah or even someone who is traditionally thought to be witless like Abby.

Edited by Faulkner

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You could show it could happen to anybody by doing this same story with Michael or Kevin, who both have a history abusing women. They could’ve built a story over months showing an event triggering them into their past behaviors. It would’ve made sense because it would be steeped in history. This story doesn’t go with the JT we’ve known, which is since he was a teen. This is typical of what they do in UK soaps where they can bring on new characters easier. Since you can’t do that here, Mal plugged JT into the story even though it makes no sense for his character. 

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11 hours ago, DeeeDee said:

 

They were good but everything about this story is terrible & seriously OOC for everyone involved (except Victor).

 

I don't think it's OOC at all. Anyone can be pulled into a violent relationship. Some men go their whole lives never even coming close to yelling at a woman then a bad divorce happens and they devolve into stalking and terrorizing...and yes, violence. Even murder. I also think any woman can be groomed into a domestic violence situation. It starts small and escalates. JT has done one helluva job with Vikki already. 

1 hour ago, Faulkner said:

Just to play devil’s advocate: I sort of get what MY is trying to do, in that Victoria is someone we’d think would be the least likely victim of domestic violence superficially. A “strong business woman” wouldn’t “let” her husband hit her, right? I suspect many have, and the #metoo movement has exposed some very unlikely victims. “If it could happen to Victoria, it could happen to anyone.” It would be easier to have it be Tessa or Mariah or even someone who is traditionally thought to be witless like Abby.

 

I don't think Mal choosing Vikki for this had anything to do with trying show if it happens to her it can happen to anyone. I think he chose her because he needed something (big) for her to do since he decided to go with Philly. AH is the show's main female lead and you can't have her doing nothing. 

Edited by ajsp35801

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1 minute ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

I don't think it's OOC at all.

 

It's totally OOC.

 

This entire Victoria & Jack plot is below Victoria Newman. Would she work with Jack to get rid of Ashley? Yes. Would they (especially her) choose a plan that ABBY WHO HAS BEEN AWAY FOR MONTHS could figure out in a matter of hours but EXPERIENCED PI JT HELLSTROM WHO LIVES IN VICTORIA'S HOUSE couldn't figure out? No.


The same way Victoria had to made into a total failure of a businesswoman to justify her scheming with Jack AND to make Ashley look like that much more competent.

 

I could totally buy Victoria (the character) finding herself in a relationship that becomes abusive but everything about this story is only happening because it's the story this current regime wants to tell no matter how much the show has warp veteran characters to shoehorn them into it.

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9 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

I don't think it's OOC at all. Anyone can be pulled into a violent relationship. Some men go their whole lives never even coming close to yelling at a woman then a bad divorce happens and they devolve into stalking and terrorizing...and yes, violence. Even murder. I also think any woman can be groomed into a domestic violence situation. It starts small and escalates. JT has done one helluva job with Vikki already. 

 

I don't think Mal choosing Vikki for this had anything to do with trying show if it happens to her it can happen to anyone. I think he chose her because he needed something (big) for her to do since he decided to go with Philly. AH is the show's main female lead and you can't have her doing nothing. 

Well that too, but I’m certain that will come up as a justification for giving AH for this particular story.

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2 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

 

It's totally OOC.

 

This entire Victoria & Jack plot is below Victoria Newman. Would she work with Jack to get rid of Ashley? Yes. Would they (especially her) choose a plan that ABBY WHO HAS BEEN AWAY FOR MONTHS could figure out in a matter of hours but EXPERIENCED PI JT HELLSTROM WHO LIVES IN VICTORIA'S HOUSE couldn't figure out? No.


The same way Victoria had to made into a total failure of a businesswoman to justify her scheming with Jack AND to make Ashley look like that much more competent.

 

I could totally buy Victoria (the character) finding herself in a relationship that becomes abusive but everything about this story is only happening because it's the story this current regime wants to tell no matter how much the show has warp veteran characters to shoehorn them into it.

 

Ah, I thought you meant the domestic violence aspect. Sure, the writing and plot points doesn't make sense but their behaviors sure do. So, it's not OOC for anything they've done. However, they are dumbed down to make the business  story go. I'll give you that. 

 

Victoria being beaten in business by Ashley doesn't make Victoria OOC. It just makes Ashley smarter than her. I don't see the issue there either. 

5 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

Well that too, but I’m certain that will come up as a justification for giving AH for this particular story.

 

Very true. 

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11 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

So, it's not OOC for anything they've done.

 

Victoria being beaten in business by Ashley doesn't make Victoria OOC. It just makes Ashley smarter than her. I don't see the issue there either.

 

It really does make Victoria OOC.

 

JT's treatment of Victoria is OOC. Nothing in the character's history makes his current behavior believable. Can he be a jerk? Yes. Would he be controlling and pick apart what Victoria's eating? No. If anything the roles should be reversed. The whole reason he fought for custody of Reed is because VICTORIA was the controlling one in their relationship. 

 

Also Victoria has never really cared about being liked as a businesswoman so to suddenly turn her into an idiot who has an inability to relate to her employees just to make Ashley look better is way OOC. Just like how Victoria had to be so bad at running Brash & Sassy (a company SHE built into a powerhouse) so Cane, Billy & Victor could rescue her.

 

Again I'm not saying Victoria (the character) is impervious to a story like this. But this story just does not work, especially not with these characters.

Edited by DeeeDee

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31 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

 

It really does make Victoria OOC.

 

JT's treatment of Victoria is OOC. Nothing in the character's history makes his current behavior believable. Can he be a jerk? Yes. Would he be controlling and pick apart what Victoria's eating? No. If anything the roles should be reversed. The whole reason he fought for custody of Reed is because VICTORIA was the controlling one in their relationship. 

 

Also Victoria has never really cared about being liked as a businesswoman so to suddenly turn her into an idiot who has an inability to relate to her employees just to make Ashley look better is way OOC. Just like how Victoria had to be so bad at running Brash & Sassy (a company SHE built into a powerhouse) so Cane, Billy & Victor could rescue her.

 

Again I'm not saying Victoria (the character) is impervious to a story like this. But this story just does not work, especially not with these characters.

 

Which takes me back to my original point. I wonder how many women lay dying on the ground whose last thought was, "I never thought he'd do this". 

 

I don't think JTs changed at all. Some of the most decent men you'd ever meet, can become angry and violent. My own damn cousin choked the crap out of and hit his wife one time. I was shocked! His parents bribed her back with money. That was the first and last time he ever did that though. So this idea that just because we knew JT and he'd never done that before means he never would just seems naive to me. And it's not in line with how I know domestic violence to work. 

 

I agree that Victoria being made out to be bad at business and unable to relate to her employees didn't line up with what I know about Victoria. I concede that point. However, Victoria's writing in  business takes nothing away from the writing of the domestic violence situation. All it did was give her stress and more things to do while JT abused her on the side to build up to this moment. 

35 minutes ago, SteelCity said:

Would this story have worked better with Travis or Joe Clark?

 

It would have resonated less with Travis and Joe Clarke because the audience wasn't as invested in those characters. It works best with JT simply because the audience cares about him too. Not just Vikki. I find it more true to life. Most domestic violence situations involve two people the family (audience) cares about. It's very hard for bystanders to reconcile their love for the perpetrator with his/her actions. 

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1 hour ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

Which takes me back to my original point. I wonder how many women lay dying on the ground whose last thought was, "I never thought he'd do this". 

 

I don't think JTs changed at all. Some of the most decent men you'd ever meet, can become angry and violent. My own damn cousin choked the crap out of and hit his wife one time. I was shocked! His parents bribed her back with money. That was the first and last time he ever did that though. So this idea that just because we knew JT and he'd never done that before means he never would just seems naive to me. And it's not in line with how I know domestic violence to work. 

 

I agree that Victoria being made out to be bad at business and unable to relate to her employees didn't line up with what I know about Victoria. I concede that point. However, Victoria's writing in  business takes nothing away from the writing of the domestic violence situation. All it did was give her stress and more things to do while JT abused her on the side to build up to this moment. 

 

It would have resonated less with Travis and Joe Clarke because the audience wasn't as invested in those characters. It works best with JT simply because the audience cares about him too. Not just Vikki. I find it more true to life. Most domestic violence situations involve two people the family (audience) cares about. It's very hard for bystanders to reconcile their love for the perpetrator with his/her actions. 

 

+10!  I agree with all of this.

 

The JT/Victoria scenes today were well written.  The dialogue was spot-on, especially when they were on other sides of the door talking to each other.  

 

Based upon the music cue at the end, it made me doubt JT's apologies to Victoria and how they "shouldn't let this one moment define them".  Was he manipulating her that entire time?  If he was, I could see how she would fall for it.  He was smooth.  But I'm hoping he meant what he said.

 

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