Empire: Discussion Thread

[ajsp35801]

I'm really loving season 3. It's about as good as season 1 IMO. The addition if the dibois adds something to the show. I'm digging that old money vs New money battle. However, I'm not sure I buy that Lyons  don't have similar connections to get a child out of CPS or with the tire chief. I felt like these were things Lucious would have been able to do himself based on past stories 

 

Juliana is very sexy. Nia Long is gorgeous and plays a vamp/vixen to perfection. This is the first time I've seen her play a darker/scheming character. It's fun. 

 

I liked Nessa and Andre. I thought he was sincere with her. I was a bit disappointed to find out he wasn't. Assuming it's not his illness making him behave this way with her. It was surprising how easily Cookie accepted he was trying to murder Lucious. You'd think she'd have him committed after that.  Trai Byers is a star. That scene with Andre confronting Anika was menacing and scary.  It could have easily gone into cheesy but he made that work. It was really a big screen level performance from him. Well done. I still say killing Rhonda was the best thing for his character. 

 

Hakeem still annoys the mess out of me. That is all.

 

Jamal is still a singing saint. I'm over him. 

 

It's nice to see Lucious isn't invincible. He was becoming a cartoon villain. The Dubois were needed to make him the protagonist again versus being a thorn in his family's side who is also omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent. 

 

 

[xtr]

 

I think that that Julianna is a good adversary for Cookie. She is sexy and beautiful and she can definitely hold her own against Cookie. Much better than Anika could IMHO.I would rather see Andre with Julianna than with Nessa. I don't care for him and Nessa. Nessa seems too "young" for him and I don't think she can fully handle him. I think he's too much man for her, lol. I thought that Trai did a really good job in his scene with Anika, and I don't feel sorry for Anika. I think he should have confronted her a while ago and she should pay in some way for killing his family. Even if it was just Andre trying to get her thrown in jail for pushing Rhonda. I hope that Bella is returned safely but I would like to see Anika get punished in some way. (Beyond being upset that Bella was taken).

 

I like the Dubois family but am disappointed that they had a hand in Bella being taken away. I wish they would have been above that. For a bit there I thought that Andre was behind it, which would have made sense, though would have hurt his relationship with his family. They could have also have had Tariq behind it. I wouldn't have minded a storyline where an on-the-run Tariq calls CPS about Bella and the Lyons fight to get her back. I would have liked if Angelo would have tried to help Cookie find her because he loves Cookie. 

 

Also, I don't like the way that they have been writing Cookie the last few episodes. I think she's coming across as weak with the way she dumped Angelo and is now pining over Lucious, while he continues to do whatever he wants to do. I wish they would have let her and Angelo be happy for a while and actually get engaged. They could have had them working together (along with Lucious) to find Bella. Then some time next season they could have planned their wedding, only to possibly have it be interrupted in a dramatic fashion. (Or actually have them go through with it.) I don't like how Cookie is not allowed to be happy for very long with good men that love her. (Malcolm/Angelo). While Lucious continues to do whatever he wants to do with whoever. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by xtr

[ajsp35801]

 

I like the innocence and sweetness of Nessa and Andre. He needs some lightness shone on the darkness he battles. It worked for me. You're right about Anika and cookie. Anika has an innocence about her that just makes her seem like she's not  Cookie's contemporary. I think they struggle to find a reason to keep her on the show. But that's a different conversation. 

 

I really want to build up the Dubois family. I'd love for Juliana to marry into that family. Her or Anika. 

 

I loved Cookie and Angelo. I wanted them to last longer too. I don't mind Cookie showing she wants lucious. It's been made obvious that he'd do anything to be with her. So I don't think she looks pathetic for pining for him. 

[xtr]

 

I think that Andre latched onto Nessa, because she was really just the first woman around after he lost Rhonda. I think he mostly wanted companionship and was trying to cope with grieving Rhonda. I wish he would have met Juliana (or someone else first) and then that relationship could have blossomed into something serious and real. . I don't like the darker turn he's taken and I think his interaction with Shine has a lot to do with that. There's something very gangster-like with the way that Andre is acting these days. He's always been manipulative and sneaky but he is doing some really dark stuff this season. Like witnessing a shooting (Juliana's husband Rafael) and setting other people up to be beat/maybe killed (Angelo, Lil Romeo's character Gram). I wish he wasn't participating in these types of things. Heck, I don't think that any Lyon son should be doing stuff like this. I expect this stuff from Cookie/Lucious at times,  but I feel like the boys should be kept out of it. I am glad that Jamal isn't doing these things and that Cookie is also trying to Hakeem away from these activities as well.

 

Also I enjoyed the scene when the DuBois family was facing off with the Lyons family at the table. I wonder who exactly all of the relatives sitting at the table were. I don't like them being involved with taking Bella and believe they could have been kept on the show without them doing that. I would have liked for them to have been innocent of that and Cookie and Angelo eventually  become more amicable with each other. I wish she wouldn't have broken up with him so abruptly.  I would have liked to have seen her more conflicted in regards to her feelings for him, in addition to dealing with her feelings about Lucious. I wish she would have accepted his proposal and attempted to try and build a life with him. She still could have sparred with Julianna while planning a wedding with Angelo and before probably eventually reuniting with Lucious. Maybe Julianna will eventually start seeing Angelo or something. 

 

I think that Lucious knows that Cookie has feelings for him, but he's just playing with her right now. I don't care to see that, especially knowing that she broke up with another good man for him. I would rather just see the writers put Cookie/Lucious back together and let them be a ride-or die couple long-term than to see Cookie break up with more good men. Maybe eventually they will do that next season or by season 5. They are already trying to speed up the divorce with Anika. Maybe that will facilitate a longer term Cookie/Lucious reunion.

[ajsp35801]

 

I think Andre wanted someone to take Rhonda's place as his conspirator and caregiver. I was proud of Nessa when she told him she was not going to take care of him in that way and that he needed to learn to do it on his own. That was very adult of her. I think Andre's darker turn is more due to his mental illness that any company he keeps. I do like it because he is far more interesting. However, it makes me somewhat uncomfortable since I think he is sick. Now, if he wasn't sick, it does make sense for him to be more like Cookie and Lucious because he is the oldest and spent much of his formative years in the same environment as his parents.

 

I enjoyed that Lyons versus Dubois scenes as well. There were four Dubois at the table. One was snoop's investment banker. I can't remember his first name. He is Angelo's cousin. Another great prospect for a love interest for Anika. I wanted to know who the you lady was though. I am a sucker for romance and nothing more than one between people from rival families. Andre has it in him to seduce a woman. Either he or Anika need to be planted in the Dubois family.

 

I understand what you mean about the Dubois. I would have liked to see them use more above board even if unethical methods. Kidnapping a child just seems beneath them. But writing wise, I get why they have been sullied. How do you redeem a big bad? You give him/her/them an even bigger bad to take down. Writing 101.

 

Lucious is most definitely playing games with Cookie. He is paying her back for Angelo. She doesn't deserve that. But they are being played as star crossed lovers at this point. On she is ready, he is not. When he I ready, she is not.

 

 

 

[kalbir]

Between Nia Long, Eva Longoria, and Vivica A Fox, last night's show was an embarrassment of bitches LOL

Edited May 18, 2017 by kalbir

[Taoboi]

CAUGHT UP!!!!

 

I know that trix did not have that baby kidnapped.

 

Loved the Vegas caper.

 

And Grandma Lyon is cray cray.

[ChitHappens]

Week before last was the first eppy I have watched in a long time, and I enjoyed it to the point of looking forward to the following eppy (which was last week).  The momentum died quickly, and to say Cookie is a cartoon would be a huge insult to cartoon characters.  What an awful embarrassing mess she has become.  She and Jamal are a reason to never tune in again!

[xtr]

Regarding last week's episode:

 

I enjoyed Candace's husband. I thought he was likeable and not snobby at all. They seem like they get along well and I like how he was trying to support her family in their plan.

 

It was nice seeing Lucious and Tariq getting together even though it was short-lived. I had a feeling something bad was going to happen when Lucious and Tariq were sitting down and bonding and Tariq was kind of taking his time revealing to Lucious the truth about Bella. I wish they would have kept Tariq around and let him help the Lyons get baby Bella back. Grandma Lyons was very scary and dark. In earlier episodes it seemed like she was okay with Tariq. He's always been respectful towards her and I think she even told him that he reminded her of his and Lucious's father (in a good way). But maybe she always resented him or they decided to have her really resent him and get rid of him. I like Leslie Uggams, but after what Grandma did to Tariq,  I feel like she needs to be sent away again. She's very dangerous.

 

I wonder how long Eva Longoria's character Charlotte will be around. I thought that Cookie telling Andre "Andre I'm your mama" when he was trying to tell her about seducing Charlotte and his plan was kind of funny. At least Cookie/Andre were spending some time together. I wonder what exactly Andre's plan is now and how many more people he will end up working over. He told Lucious at the Casino that he was there to warn him about Cookie, but then towards the end of the episode he told Cookie about his plan regarding Charlotte. He may be trying to work both sides to get what he want. I also wonder what may become of the escalating conflict between him and Shine. 

 

I also wonder what Mrs. Dubious plans are regarding Bella. Keeping her in the city is risky. Especially with Hakeem ready to pounce on anyone with a baby that he thinks even remotely resembles Bella. I wonder what the Dubios family has to say about the newest addition and how Angelo is handling keeping the secret so far. 

 

I am looking forward to watching tonight's finale.

Edited May 25, 2017 by xtr

[xtr]

I thought that last night’s episode was really good. It almost seemed more like a series finale than a season finale. I thought that a lot of interesting things were going on and that there are a lot of things to look forward to for next season.

 

Anika has shown once again that she can’t be completely trusted. I wonder how long Anika knew about Bella being with the Dubois. Maybe she set it up for them to take her to get her away from the Lyons. I could see her doing that, especially after Lucious/Cookie threatened her and used her to get Tariq off their backs. I don’t feel sorry for her even though Grandma Lyon is framing her for Tariq’s murder. I also wonder what the Dubois are going to have Hakeem do for them in exchange in letting him reunite with Bella. I think that them being more incorporated in the show is going to be interesting and I wonder how many plans of revenge they are going to enact against the Lyons. I think that the male twin Dubois is interesting and that he has a nice voice.

 

I liked how Cookie and Lucious reunited and I thought the way he treated her was sweet. It was nice that Jamal was in on making sure that the “When Cookie met Lucious” album would be the one that was going to be released first and showcased at the Casino. I think he has always secretly and even openly at times supported his parents being together. Also, I thought that Cookie’s childhood boyfriend Barry showing up was a really nice moment. It brought things full circle for Cookie and Lucious. I was glad to see that Barry had done well for himself and had a nice family. I liked how his situation inspired Lucious and Cookie to decide to reunite and travel together.

 

I also liked the way Lucious/Cookie finally gave Andre his due.  Unfortunately, Andre couldn’t stop his plan from going through in time, but at least he knows that they really do love and value him. I also liked how the show didn’t leave us completely hanging at the end and flash forwarded three months. I wonder how long Lucious will be dealing with his memory loss and what changes will occur in this time. Maybe his whole personality will change.

Edited May 25, 2017 by xtr

[Taoboi]

That finale was good until the last minute.

 

Really?!? SERIOUSLY?!!!???

 

That said...I'm all ready for the DuBois v the Lyons next season with all those revenge plans that Mama has up her sleeve.

 

And DEAD at Boo Boo Kitty getting set up with that hot sauce being delivered being the cherry on top.

[Vanguardian]

I remember when I pitched the idea on this board about a rival family (with a couple of yall agreeing with me) to go against the Lyons. I'm feeling like Lee Daniels and Co. might've listened and created the DuBois clan. I've liked them so far, and now Jamal quite likely has a new love interest in the form of that dark chocolate sexy crooner who serenaded him in the finale. I believe it'll start out that the DuBois hottie is duping Jamal only to realize that he really does have genuine feelings for Jamal after getting to know him. This sets up that old-fashioned soapy "Romeo and Juliet" dynamic with them falling for each other while their families are duking it out. Just how does Jamal end up landing all of these smokin' guys anyway?

[NothinButAttitude]

 

My primary issue with this is that Lee Daniel, Danny Strong, and Ilene Chaiken will be enamored with the DuBois clan at first, but will toss them aside to create 35 other side characters in the process, so they can have more cameos on the show. This show needs to get back to being tightly knit like it was in season 1. It skidded off the tracks quickly these past 2 seasons. This is the time to fix matters. 

[xtr]

 

 

I think that most of the scenes involving Cookie and Lucious would have been fitting in a series finale, except for scenes like Andre still scheming behind their backs and the very last scene.  Maybe in the very last season they will be able to finally "be happy" together and walk off into the sunset together.

 

I am looking forward to seeing more of the Dubois family too and seeing the Lyons vs the DuBois. At first I wasn't thrilled that Mrs. Dubois was behind Bella being kidnapped, but I think that going forward the rivarly between these two families could end up being very interesting and soapy. It looks like they may not have intended to even keep Bella for that long considering how quickly Anika showed up to get her. I do wonder how long Anika knew they had her, and I hope the Lyons eventually find out about her involvement with the Dubois.

 

I like how they haven't done anything super dark and seem to be more sophisticated/slick with their scheming. I like that they probably aren't going to go so far as to make plans to kill anybody but they do want some sort of payback. I wonder what they want Hakeem to do for them in the future. I am interested in what happens with the male twin Dubois as well. I enjoyed listening to him singing, I would rather hear him sing than a lot of other artists at Empire, lol. I thought it was amusing how he was critical of his performance because I thought he sounded good. I also noticed that at open mike night that he was announced with a different last name. I wonder if he lied about his name, or goes by a different last name than Dubois. Maybe his mother was Angelo's father's sister and he has his father's last name. I think that him and his twin sister may be Angelo's cousins. 

 

Also, on a side note I noticed after looking at the open mike scene again, that Becky was with that former military guy she met at the Casino. Good for her. I think he's cute.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by xtr

[Taoboi]

You don't think they righted the ship this season in terms of focusing on the Lyons more versus Season 2 with the cameos?