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The Taylor Swift Thread

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Khan   

I do like the music of this latest song, but the lyrics are more of the same in the vein of "You don't like me? You're just jealous!"

Tay-Tay does seem to possess a bit of a persecution complex. It's like when she told Seth Meyers on "Late Night" how she keeps a mental list of everyone who is genuinely nice to her. You don't need to do that unless you are someone who went through school being the subject of everyone's jokes and insults. Believe me. ;)

It's funny, TS says she is a fan of Joni Mitchell's, but do you know who she REALLY reminds me of? Carly Simon. She, too, had this desire to set to lyrics and music the ups and downs of her relationships. The big difference, however, is that Carly is a more sophisticated lyricist than Tay and she has managed to part on good terms with most of the men in her life. Ergo, there isn't any residual bitterness in her work.

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Khan   

It's more like "You don't like me? I don't care. I'm just going to have fun." That's the whole point of the song: "People will find anything about you and twist it to where it's weird or wrong or annoying or strange or bad. You have to not only live your life in spite of people who don't understand you, you have to have more fun than they do."

No offense, Toups, but your analysis of the song is deeper than the song itself.

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Shame as she could have been the next Shania Twain in courting both markets.

Her entire career has been built on trying to follow the same template Twain masterfully did in the late 90's. But I do think Taylor had more of a reputation in the country scene/Nashville than Shania ever did. Shania was always an outsider in Nashville, and country music purists always detested her, so she had nothing to lose by doing more pop oriented material (thanks of course to her then husband Robert "Mutt" Lange of course). Taylor, on the other hand, has built the entire foundation of her career in Nashville, first as a songwriter and then as an actualized artist. So possibly alienating that section of her base is a potentially risky move.

Taylor's success is really only concentrated in America though. Though she's toured Europe and other parts of the world, she's NEVER had the same following internationally that she has in the US/Canada. I wonder if her more pop leanings are an attempt to make her a more global star.

Shania at her peak was a GLOBAL star. Her 1997 album, Come On Over, isn't just classified as the best selling country album ever, it's the best selling album for a FEMALE ARTIST EVER, in both the US AND WORLDWIDE.

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Toups   

Tay-Tay does seem to possess a bit of a persecution complex. It's like when she told Seth Meyers on "Late Night" how she keeps a mental list of everyone who is genuinely nice to her. You don't need to do that unless you are someone who went through school being the subject of everyone's jokes and insults. Believe me. wink.png

She was bullied in middle school and has always told her fans who might be going through the same thing that it gets better and that writing things down helped her coped with it.

It's funny, TS says she is a fan of Joni Mitchell's, but do you know who she REALLY reminds me of? Carly Simon. She, too, had this desire to set to lyrics and music the ups and downs of her relationships. The big difference, however, is that Carly is a more sophisticated lyricist than Tay and she has managed to part on good terms with most of the men in her life. Ergo, there isn't any residual bitterness in her work.

She also likes Carly. She even brought her out to sing "You're So Vain" at one of her concerts last year.

No offense, Toups, but your analysis of the song is deeper than the song itself.

That's the analysis of the songwriter. I'm not to argue with the person who wrote the song.

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Eric83   

Shania at her peak was a GLOBAL star. Her 1997 album, Come On Over, isn't just classified as the best selling country album ever, it's the best selling album for a FEMALE ARTIST EVER, in both the US AND WORLDWIDE.

Didn't Come on Over go double diamond in America? Edited by Eric83

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Didn't Come on Over go double diamond in America?

Yes, and Shania is the only women to have 3 diamond certified albums - The Woman In Me (1995), Come On Over (1997) and Up! (2002) (I guess 4 if you consider that COO is double diamond). In UP!'s case, it was a counted as a double album (since she had one that was a pop mix and one that was a more country mix), so the sales counted twice when it was certified by the RIAA.

Madonna, Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, and Britney Spears each have two diamond certified albums.

Edited by BetterForgotten

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It's more like "You don't like me? I don't care. I'm just going to have fun." That's the whole point of the song: "People will find anything about you and twist it to where it's weird or wrong or annoying or strange or bad. You have to not only live your life in spite of people who don't understand you, you have to have more fun than they do."

Or, really, we could just stop at "You don't like me?" Regardless of what follows, it gets old. Her biggest hits have all followed the same formula where Taylor revels in pulling one over on someone who committed the cardinal sin of doing Taylor Swift wrong. "I Knew You Were Trouble," "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together," "You Belong to Me," "Mean," and now this one all have that recurring theme, and it just doesn't appeal to me in the least. Will she ever get self-aware and write something a little deeper? I mean, if she doesn't, that's cool. If that's not what she wants to do or what her audience wants, then I've no place to expect it of her, but that's what it'll take to get me to want to listen to her -- or, rather, like her lyrics, because I can't stand her voice. "Red" is the only song she's written that I've really liked.

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Khan   

Will she ever get self-aware and write something a little deeper?

Probably not. Unless she makes a conscious choice to pull away from the spotlight and lead a quieter, more normal life, the well of personal experience from which she draws, which was never deep to begin with, will become bone dry.

And I'm just going to cut the rest and leave it there. :)

Edited by Khan

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Khan   

She also likes Carly. She even brought her out to sing "You're So Vain" at one of her concerts last year.

That figures, since YSV is what TS song aspires to be. But even THAT song never comes across as harshly as TS' stuff does.

It's a shame record producer Richard Perry is ill with Parkinson's Disease and likely retired from the industry. If anyone could help Tay-Tay transition at this period in her career into a broader musical genre without turning her into Britney-lite, it's he. As good as Carly's previous efforts were, it was Perry who was largely responsible for the "sound" that defines her to this day.

Edited by Khan

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I honestly have mixed feelings about Taylor and her public persona.

On one hand, she was born in 1989, just like I was, and it IS pretty cool to see a young woman in the spotlight who was born the same year as me achieving her dreams and making a success of herself (see also: Hayden Panettiere, another 1989 girl who I absolutely ADORE [and many think her character on Nashville was partially inspired by Taylor, despite the noticeable height difference between the two laugh.png ]). So, of course, seeing that her new album is named after our birth year is pretty damn cool smile.png. I also like that she's not much into partying, as I am a very shy girl who rarely drinks at all, and when I do, it's red wine.

And I like her, I was bullied throughout middle school, so I absolutely sympathize with her on that front. It was a horrible experience for me, and no doubt for her, too, so naturally, the idea of becoming a huge success and having everyone who teased you and made your life a living hell is VERY tempting to me, and no doubt to her, too.

But like others have said, here's the thing:

Sometimes, after going through something like that, the best thing to do--and my mom has told me this, too--is to let your success speak for itself. She has every right to write songs addressing bullying and sticking up for the underdog, but when she makes statements like she did at the VMAs last year--thanking the guy who inspired "I Knew You Were Trouble" (and I'll admit that song is a guilty pleasure of mine)--it kind of undermines that and makes her look resentful and bitter (although, to be fair, many thought it was about Harry Styles, who they cut to right after she said that, but it makes MUCH more sense for it to be about John Mayer, who has earned the reputation as quite the manwhore, and unlike some guys in Hollywood, he's actually been called out about it many times--that, and she and Harry weren't involved yet before Red came out)

I actually think the song "Mean" largely works as an anthem for kids who have been bullied and how they will someday make it and become successful like she did, but when it shifts to focusing on a music critic who claimed she couldn't sing in a review, once again, it undermines the overall message of the song to me. I like it more than I hate it, but that part seems unnecessary to me.

I also largely like and relate to the song "You Belong With Me" too (and she is SO CUTE in the video with her glasses! I wore really ugly glasses in high school--I only got contact lenses shortly after I graduated high school), because I DEFINITELY felt like an ugly duckling (or maybe an "awkward duckling" is more accurate) in high school--not just because of my glasses, but because of my weight back then--so I definitely see what she's going after there, but yeah, the implication that she'll steal that guy from his girlfriend is still a little weird to me.

But like I said before, from what I've heard before, I like a lot of her album tracks much more than her singles, especially "The Lucky One" which is pretty obviously about Joni Mitchell--I've heard she's supposed to play her in a movie sometime soon.

And yes, I'll admit, because we are the same age (I'm a bit older than her--I was born in February 1989, she was born in December 1989--okay so I'm almost a year older than her, lol), I do sometimes feel some jealousy towards her because of how successful she's already become (which is part of the reason I don't really like "22"--one, I was 24 when that single came out, so that age has passed me by, and two, way to remind me of the fact that I'm still trying to find lasting success, Taylor! lol--that, and the hipster line seemed awkward to me), and even with all the jokes about her relationships (and I'll admit I'm as guilty as anybody in laughing at them/making them myself--I'm only human, people!), as someone who has only dated one person--and it only started last year--I sometimes feel some jealousy over that. Not too much, but sometimes.

Like her, I'm also blonde-haired and blue eyed, but MUCH shorter and my weight goes up and down a lot. So I wouldn't mind being as tall or thin as her either! But what are we gonna do about that? smile.png

And lastly, while I don't really care about what kind of music she makes (although I do understand the concerns about alienating her fanbase that made her famous), I really am not a fan of "Shake It Off." I love late 80's pop, but that makes me think less of Debbie Gibson or Paula Abdul and more of...mid 2000's Disney Channel soundtrack. Of course, watching the video was probably a mistake for me, as usually I find it's better just to listen to a song, and make up my own visuals for it. That, and I couldn't deal with her rapping, either. Too much for me. laugh.png

That said, I'm willing to give the rest of her new album a chance.

So, I wouldn't say I'm a lover (although I did recently like her FB page) or a hater, more of a...whatever-er. I like some of her songs, and I'm interested in her public persona to a degree. It is what it is.

I have no idea if I made any sense at all here, and I certainly didn't expect this to be so long laugh.png , but this is just the perspective of Taylor from a young woman the same age as her. smile.png

Edited by MissLlanviewPA

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Toups   

Will she ever get self-aware and write something a little deeper?

Probably not. Unless she makes a conscious choice to pull away from the spotlight and lead a quieter, more normal life, the well of personal experience from which she draws, which was never deep to begin with, will become bone dry.

What is considered "deeper"? She has lot of wonderful songs that aren't about breaking up with boys and being nasty about them. Khan gave those tragic examples of Joni Mitchell, but Taylor hasn't gone through tradegy like that. She can't possibly go through "deepness" at that level if she hasn't experienced it. Though she has written songs about other people in songs like "Ronan" (about a young boy who died from cancer) and "Tied Together With A Smile" (a girl who had an eating disorder) or "Sad Beautiful Tragic" (allegedly about her parents breakin up).

"Ronan" is a song that I love but can't listen to it too often (just a couple times a year) because it gives me chills and makes me sad every time I listen to it or watch it (Taylor's on the verge of crying and looks to sad). She only performed that song once and it was at "Standup 2 Cancer" telethon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nVBsDP5DoM

Ronan's parents talking about Ronan and Taylor's song:

Also, I think "All Too Well" "Breathe" and "Last Kiss" are pretty "deep" for sad love songs. "I Almost Do" and "Come Back...Be Here" aren't as "deep" as those 3 songs but they're sad love songs that I just love listening to.

There's a blog that does a great job at gathering information about Taylor's song: http://taylorswiftsongs2.blogspot.ca/p/song-meanings.html

I actually think the song "Mean" largely works as an anthem for kids who have been bullied and how they will someday make it and become successful like she did, but when it shifts to focusing on a music critic who claimed she couldn't sing in a review, once again, it undermines the overall message of the song to me. I like it more than I hate it, but that part seems unnecessary to me.

"Mean" was first about that critic and then it turned into an anthem for kids. And she didn't write it just because he critisized her singing, she wrote it because she thought he went overboard when the critic personally attacked her. What she says about the song: “There’s constructive criticism, there’s professional criticism, and then there’s just being mean. And there’s a line that you cross when you just start to attack everything about a person… This happens no matter what you do, no matter how old you are, no matter what your job is, no matter what your place is in life, there’s always gonna be someone who’s just mean to you. And dealing with that is all that you can control, how you handle it. This song is about how I handle it.”

But like I said before, from what I've heard before, I like a lot of her album tracks much more than her singles, especially "The Lucky One" which is pretty obviously about Joni Mitchell--I've heard she's supposed to play her in a movie sometime soon.

That was just a false rumour. I think Taylor's name was attached to that partly because Taylor said she was a fan and that she looked Joni. Taylor puts an album out every two years and tours so she doesn't have the time to be in a starring role. I don't see her taking a Justin Timberlake-like break to do movies.

I have no idea if I made any sense at all here, and I certainly didn't expect this to be so long laugh.png , but this is just the perspective of Taylor from a young woman the same age as her. smile.png

Thank you for your perspective. smile.png

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Skin   

I think most Taylor fans are fans of her and her music and not the actual genre of song/album. All her albums are successul because fans are able to connect with her songs no matter the genre. Some songs are more country-er, some are more pop, some are more pop/rock.....it doesn't really matter. I think once she's done with "pure pop," whether it be this album or the next, I'm sure she'll change a bit for future albums. Maybe she'll go in the pop rock direction - a sound like U2/Coldplay. She sings, writes, produces, plays intruments, and is the leading force of her career - she's not a puppet. She can do whatever she wants.

I thought we went threw this with Lady Gaga, the bulk of musical artists fans aren't super fans who will except anything from the artist. It's the every day general public, who makes these stars successful. Country fans and Hip-Hop/Rap fans are typically the demographic that are the most "loyal" to their artists and stars. But even then if their brand loyalty deteriorates they can experience diminished returns with their successive albums. That's why a musical artist can be on top of the world one moment, and the next they are skating near levels of obscurity. I think Taylor has largely peaked, Fearless will remain her biggest album from a worldwide stand point, now its just a point of how long she can mediate the loss of general fan attrition.

Edited by Skin

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She also likes Carly. She even brought her out to sing "You're So Vain" at one of her concerts last year.

IIRC, she's actually one of the few people in the world now who knows for certain who that song is about. Is that true?

That was just a false rumour. I think Taylor's name was attached to that partly because Taylor said she was a fan and that she looked Joni. Taylor puts an album out every two years and tours so she doesn't have the time to be in a starring role. I don't see her taking a Justin Timberlake-like break to do movies.

She was in the movie Valentines Day, but I guess that was really at the very beginning of her career, so that makes sense.

Edited by MissLlanviewPA

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What is considered "deeper"? She has lot of wonderful songs that aren't about breaking up with boys and being nasty about them. Khan gave those tragic examples of Joni Mitchell, but Taylor hasn't gone through tradegy like that. She can't possibly go through "deepness" at that level if she hasn't experienced it. Though she has written songs about other people in songs like "Ronan" (about a young boy who died from cancer) and "Tied Together With A Smile" (a girl who had an eating disorder) or "Sad Beautiful Tragic" (allegedly about her parents breakin up).

"Ronan" is a song that I love but can't listen to it too often (just a couple times a year) because it gives me chills and makes me sad every time I listen to it or watch it (Taylor's on the verge of crying and looks to sad). She only performed that song once and it was at "Standup 2 Cancer" telethon.

Also, I think "All Too Well" "Breathe" and "Last Kiss" are pretty "deep" for sad love songs. "I Almost Do" and "Come Back...Be Here" aren't as "deep" as those 3 songs but they're sad love songs that I just love listening to.

I'll check those songs out when I get a chance, but if she has stuff like that on her albums, I wish whoever's in charge would try to get some of it out there so that she's more than just that kid who sings about bullies and bad boyfriends. That's why I've never ever ever gone beyond her hits (no pun intended).

Also, because I just can't stand that damn voice.

Edited by All My Shadows

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