The complete and total dismantling of Y&R

[Khan]

For one thing, SANTA BARBARA never resonated beyond its core, cult-ish audience, because it was stuck (in most markets) in one of the worst time-slots imaginable, between one soap (GUIDING LIGHT) that was an industry mainstay and held a considerable, loyal audience that in many cases went back generations, and another (GH) that held an equally stalwart viewership and virtually appealed to the same kind of viewer as SB. In a way, SB was like EDGE OF NIGHT, a show that really would have performed better in the late afternoon/early evening slots, when more non-traditional viewers (teens and young adults, college students, even professional men and women) were at home and able to watch.

Moreover, at the risk of alienating many SB fans here, I have to say: there were times when I felt as if SB was thumbing its nose at traditional soaps and their viewers in the most divisive and derogatory ways. Nancy Lee Grahn, in fact, once referred to SB as a "thinking man's soap," implying the majority of others...weren't. Granted, SB never needed to be slaves to soap traditions -- and in fact, its irreverence is one reason why I loved it (well, most of it, lol). But it needed to show some respect, I think, for the things that long-time soap fans loved about the genre in the first place.

[Chris B]

Like Khan said, Griffith is a Breakdown Writer in Headwriters clothing. He won't lost so it doesn't matter if he works well with Guza. Regardless of how poorly Hollywood Heights was scheduled, it was also a dreadful show and that's his most recent work. He's terrible as a headwriter and he won't last. I think JFP will be fine, but I'm curious what's next. If she's given any power over who they choose then it could be scary. Bob Guza at Y&R will get a lot of buzz but it could be the thing to kill the show.

I just wonder how many failed HWs it'll take before they ask someone like Kay Alden or Jack Smith to return.

[EricMontreal22]

But Loving came close too. I think classic SuBe was a different style of soap and very smart--and agree with what Khan said, but I don't think international love really always means quality (look at Baywatch)

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I don't think Loving was ever quite on the same scale, though popular in Italy and I think South Africa for a while.

I didn't mean from a quality standpoint, but for a long time, Santa Barbara continued to be in re-runs in various countries around the world. In some case, it never left the airwaves in select countries. To me, that says something about the show's appeal. I may not entirely get it, but the show continues to resonate in other parts of the world long after its demise.

[chicklitsandfantasies]

Why do you think JFP would immediately hire Guza?

[Y&RWorldTurner]

She probably wouldn't, but SONY probably would.

I don't see Griffith lasting long either, especially since ratings aren't trending up and he doesn't have the type of safety net Maria unfortunately had for years.

[Khan]

Let's put it this way: aside from maybe Nancy Curlee, do you see many HW's jumping at the opportunity to work with JFP?

[chicklitsandfantasies]

Doesn't mean she would pick him. And if they really wanted a job I'm sure they would.

[DramatistDreamer]

Some enterprising person should be trying to pitch a reboot (God I hate that word now ) of Capitol right about now. I'd pitch it myself but my pitching skills suck

[CSF]

I loved Capitol!

[doolfan]

I did catch today's Y&R and I personally thought it was a good episode. What did everybody else think?

[DramatistDreamer]

Your avatar (I still haven't chosen one yet ) reminds me of how much I was taken with Jess Walton's performance on Capitol, she played that character with such heart and such pathos, that even at that young age I was impressed and felt empathy for her character. I only really started watching Capitol later in the show's history, but it would be interesting to see if I'd feel the same if I watched it now that I'm no longer a little girl. Perhaps I'll consult You Tube over the weekend.It wasn't bad to me. I watched online and I only slightly skipped a little of the Chelsea/Adam/Jeffrey/?can't remember Chelsea's Mother's name scenes but I thought the Sharon/Noah scenes were actually touching. I think it is a natural fit that Noah should want to take care of his Mother, I hope that this will be the storyline trajectory. It's more interesting and it has the potential of realistically pulling the Sharon character out of the morass that she's been in for the better part of 3 years running as well as building Noah's character as a grown-up with some responsibility as a son and a big brother, rather than the post adolescent whine fest that we had the last incarnation of the character. It is a better sign for Sharon's psychological growth to steer toward a much healthier nurturing relationship, and out of the vortex of foolishness and sadism that comprised her time as Adam's paramour.

While I don't care for the constant use of Phyllis as the 'go to' character on Y&R, I have to say, oh what a difference a pairing makes! She is so much more tolerable when paired with Jack. Their conversations actually smacked of genuine feeling and honesty. And for two characters who in the recent paths tended to say things that made you not believe a word out of their mouths (especially Red), I believed it when Phyllis told Jack that she believes in him. The writers can go further with these characters. And by that, I mean, whether or not the characters remain platonic or take a romantic turn, the writers need to make Jack and Phyllis one of those witty intelligent pairings. Anyone who has seen the movie His Girl Friday with Cary Grant and Rosalind Russell may understand what I mean. Y&R Desperately needs a high I.Q. couple-- although, I don't want them to become show eaters.

The Winters dinner seemed to be mostly empty conversations-- I hope this is not a sign to come. Maybe because they set the scene in a restaurant, I didn't get that sense of warmth that soaps used to be known for on Thanksgiving episodes. I don't think it was the setting, though because had Sharon and Noah gone to the restaurant and shared Thanksgiving, something tells me, it would've been more touching than what was going on at the Winter's table. I get an uneasy feeling that there may be a discomfort toward writing for some character (ahem- Neil ) but I hope I'm reading way too much into this. With Lily droning on and on and giggling incessantly about nothing, I wondered why they put them on at all when their scenes would be characterized by such vacuity.

Katherine Jill and Tucker's scenes. I couldn't imagine that scene working at all without Jill's presence. To me, there wasn't much there in terms of written material but the furtive glances between and Katherine, the tentative handshake that Katherine offered Tucker and that part of the scene where Jill uneasily tries to comfort Katherine and Katherine appears unsure of whether to accepts Jill's comforting quasi-hug or to push her away was a great and telling marker of their relationship. If you had just turned into Y&R for the first time and didn't know who these two women were nor their relationship to one another, those few actions within that scene would have informed you of a good deal of who they are.

The scenes of Billy, Nick and Victoria seemed incongruous compared to the other stories within this episode but I understand why JG may have felt the need to put them there- for contrast, if nothing else. I haven't really been watching lately so I didn't really feel much about this kidnapping, one way or another. The most positive thing I can say was that I liked that vignette on the jet where Billy sits and you can practically see the machinations going on in his mind, while in the background, Victoria rests and leans on her brother Nick, who comforts her.There were some likeable snapshot scenes in today's episode. The entire episode itself- was there much that I would find memorable years from now? Not really, but it was a pleasant enough episode and at least Y&R seemed to remember that it was Thanksgiving this year. It's been quite awhile since I've been able to bear watching this show-- I hope this signals improvement from here on in.

[LaBrae]

At this point, I can't say that JFP/JG are doing much better. They have actually come in and gave a big swoop to alot of those other daytime actresses(DM, GF, JL, MR, TC) all for the sake of bringing in new teen stars from a cable series, GH actors, and models. Similar to MAB, this is nothing but stunt casting trying to bring in viewers. Its as if they're not really caring about good story telling just focusing on the vets they like, and so far the show has become a complete bore. The actual true vets are getting filler scenes, whereas they focus on the world according to Phyllis, and the rest of the Newman clan. Y&R was once a very entertaining soap, but its getting less appealing by the day.

If CBS/Sony would like to see this show succeed, they need to bring in some writers who can bring some flair back to the so called #1 Soap.

[DRW50]

I don't think the decisions have been stunt casting. They've mostly been people JFP and JG worked with on HH, or easy names. I think most of the high priced actors were probably going no matter what.

[DramatistDreamer]

Unfortunately, I think my interest was a one-off deal with the Thanksgiving episode. I'm back to being indifferent with Y&R again. I guess it was premature on my part.