Members Cheap21 Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Thats a good analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphanguy74 Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 Your bottom line, IS correct, but Zimmerman getting out of his car was precipitated by Trayvon jumping a fence in the "uniform" that is worn by gang members, a woman in tight clothing is compeltely different in that it does not bring suspicion of criminal activity by the general public. Zimmerman's intent was to STOP criminal activity, not perpetrate it, like with your rape analogy, he was just unhinged and overzealous, but that doesn't change the orginal intent.... unless you think he left his hosue that night saying to himelf "I'm gonna go kill me black bioy tonight". But like I stated, I put the biggest part of the blame on the HOA for not hiring trained security guards to do that job, hence Zimmerman should not have even been out there doing that in the first place. The clothing aspect is what I consider a "contributing factor" which is different from a "Primary reason". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 George Zimmerman got out of his car because he was overzealous. When you see someone you think is committing a crime away from you personally, you call the police not get out of a safe place to confront him. It's not as if George Zimmerman saw him attacking another person and got out of his car to come to anyone's aid. It's not really a free society if people need to dress in such a way as to not make others suspicious that they are not criminals. It's impossible for anyone who is categorized as predisposed to criminal activity based on race/ethnicity to dress in a way as not to be seen as a criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphanguy74 Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 I totally agree that him getting out of his car was overzealous. Absolutely. Just so many factors at play, as was mentioned, also.. the 911 operator not being direct and firm as well. In a perfect world, we could dress any way we wanted and not be judged for it, but we have to deal in reality, not in what "Should be". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ReddFoxx Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 Martin didn't jump a fence, that's not stated in any facts that I've seen. Zimmerman's account never stated that Martin jumped a fence, when he did a re-enactment on video, that never was stated, was not mentioned on the 911 call and isn't in the police report. The rules of neighborhood watch are to call the police and not attempt to handle any situation yourself, mainly for your own safety. If you judge people by what they are wearing, that's a recipe for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 I thought I missed the whole jumping the fence thing because I hadn't heard about it before. Seeing someone jump over a fence is cause for suspicion and should lead you to call the police not get out of your car and pursue him. He was wrong to follow him no matter what happened because he didn't get out of his car to help anyone. I don't buy that. I think people should dress so that they are decent in public. I know "decent" is subjective but the whole idea that you have to dress in a way that makes someone not see you as a criminal is ridiculous. I'm not responsible for what someone else thinks about my clothes.....I can only be responsible for what I think. Other people's thoughts or hangups aren't my business. That whole notion is discriminatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ann_SS Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 It is the lie that is manufactured to rally around Zimmerman. The hoodie thing is so stupid there are no words. There are no excuses for Zimmerman's behavior and Trayvon did nothing wrong or deserving of being killed by that asswipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric83 Posted October 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 And how do you know his jeans were sagging? I have only ever heard about the hoodie, just because he is a young African American male doesn't mean he was sagging. I see plenty of young minority males who do not sag. And where did the jumping the fence thing come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 Unfortunately, some of the discussions that came as a result of this--especially about hoodies just border on ridiculous, imo. Example #1: This is the biggest fear that a black mother has. (I'm still unsure whether it's that her son gets killed by the police--even though George Zimmerman was a neighborhood watchman or that her son is killed by a white man--even though he has a higher chance of being killed by someone of the same race) And if it's because he's wearing a hoodie then guess what--there's a solution for that--don't let him wear hoodies. Example #2: The mini do I look like a threat in this hoodie? movement. Some of the people I saw made me say "yes," not because of their clothing but their menacing looks. Example #3: Racial profiling and the congressman in the hoodie taking the floor and declaring that it must end. Pass a law then since it's that simple. Otherwise stop being silly and recognize that it's a way of thinking and be honest about all the ways you contribute to that way of thinking because you cannot legislate people's thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphanguy74 Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 The reason why you haven't heard about the jeans is because news outlets were afraid to report it, because they knew they'd be call racist if they did. Rap and hip hop cultrue is a cancer that is eating away at the black community, much in the same way meth is in small town white america. My main point is this tragedy needs to be a wake up call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 CNN may have a point about the potential attacks but they should have done a better job reporting this in the first place. Once they presented this as a racially motivated killing, there is no walking back from that. Other than the assumptions of people who were no where around and an edited 9-1-1 tape, where is the evidence that George Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon Martin? It seems to be all based on the beliefs of individuals about what sort of impression his clothing made on George Zimmerman. The girl on the phone doesn't seem to have claimed to hear any threats or anything racist being said by George Zimmerman (not that he needed to say anything racist to be a racist). Everyone is down to making up their own version of events including how he hunted the kid down like an animal. I wish George Zimmerman would just be honest. I wish I could blame rap and meth but it's a lot deeper than that including a strong sense of hopelessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ann_SS Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 This tragedy is a wake call to get rid of the "stand the ground" law and tighten gun control laws, not to let white people justify stereotyping young black men because of their skin color and how they dress. Oh, and that comment about rap and hip hop is racist bullshit generalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 Wow, I cant beleive hip hop just got equated to Meth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphanguy74 Posted October 24, 2012 Members Share Posted October 24, 2012 Why would it be a racist generaliztion, because I CERTAINLY put Kid Rock and Eminem in that category as well, Eminem is one of the wrost offenders of them all. Videos that glorify violence and misogyny. I do totally agree about the stand your ground laws being ridiculous.... the law should only apply if you are in your CAR or your own HOME. It might not have started out that way, but the CULTURE surrounding rap and hip hop has become the work of the devil. But if you all want to champion rap and hip hop while you bitch about misogyny in daytime serials, y'all go right ahead. And for your information, Dionne Warwick and Cissy Houston hold this exact same opinion. As a matter of fact, protests were launched back in the 90's by the National congress of Black women, co-chaired by Delores Tucker, Dionne, and Melba Moore (an organization that Michelle Obama fully supports) . People are just GOING to stereotype people of any race because of how they dress. They are going to stereotype because of what Trayvon was wearing in the exact same way this would be: But watch this starting at 1:25. and you will see exactly how I feel about this, from a woman I have a great deal of respect for: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted October 24, 2012 Members Share Posted October 24, 2012 I don't really disagree with much of the characterization of rap or certain rappers. But to be fair, it's not all bad and here and globally there are still socially conscientious rappers in existence so let's narrow it down to the specifically destructive elements of rap. Once upon a time it was friendly and happy go lucky and then it the "gangsta rap" element was introduced and ironically it got the user friendly label of hip hop which I don't use because rap by any other name is still rap. Honestly I'm guilty of repeating lyrics from the Underground, Biggie, and a host of other--not the vile parts but I love music and they do sample some great songs. I don't care for Jay-Z but I do love the way his production team used that theme from "Shaft in Africa" on one of his songs, I love the sound of the "Encore/Numb" Linkin Park hybrid, and I do not care for Kanye West but Dwele has an awesome hook on "Flashing Lights." But I'm no impressionable youth. Tipper Gore's push for the PA labels was helpful, even though the labels are sometimes missing on cds that should be labeled such as Janet Jackson's "Velvet Rope." I am not even sure that I believe that rap is the problem since it cannot be any more hypnotic than all that rock music that was supposed to cause kids to fall prey to sex and drugs. I think the biggest problem is teaching kids that they will never amount to anything because of who they are. If you're taught at a young age that you're less than and will never be any more than that then why would you even try? And it's not just about society saying these things, it's about all those well intentioned people who see themselves as trying to spare children disappointment by teaching them that the man hates them--that can't end well. And that's probably just the tip of the iceberg for a kid living in the worst part of the city, surrounded by gang violence, in a broken home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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