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2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

It had promise when it started.  That flash of shade from Bobbie towards Luke after examining Liz was very reminiscent of the stuff I have seen on YouTube of what they were like in the early years of both characters.  Under Labine I kind of felt like she was too under his spell, he was always right etc.  Back in the day Bobbie had his number, and called him out.

 

The initial scenes were scary, heartbreaking, and done with restraint and empathy.  Sometimes rape on soaps is either after school special and all surface, or it is horribly gratuitous and so plot oriented (Emily and Nikolas lookalike).

 

Everyone involved did incredible acting.

 

But yes, it did mostly become about Lucky and Luke.  And I think that was unfortunate.

 

Well I think one of the reasons it became mostly about Lucky and Luke was because Genie Francis was not there.  She was still on her extended maternity leave.  And if I remember correctly, the storyline was mostly about revisiting the Luke/Laura rape which had become white-washed under Gloria Monty.  I do think they tried to unwhite-wash it a bit and I think it worked.

 

And while I do think Becky Herbst was good in the storyline, I don't think she had the acting chops to carry that heavy, heavy storyline.  When they did the flashbacks of Laura being raped, it was astounding to see what a terrific young actress Genie Francis was.  And then when you contrasted that to  Becky Herbst......it just didn't hold as much weight.  Again, Becky was fine...just not superb IMO.

Edited by OldGHFan

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6 minutes ago, OldGHFan said:

 

Well I think one of the reasons it became mostly about Lucky and Luke was because Genie Francis was not there.  She was still on her extended maternity leave.  And if I remember correctly, the storyline was mostly about revisiting the Luke/Laura rape which had become white-washed under Gloria Monty.  I do think they tried to unwhite-wash it a bit and I think it worked.

 

And while I do think Becky Herbst was good in the storyline, I don't think she had the acting chops to carry that heavy, heavy storyline.  When they did the flashbacks of Laura being raped, it was astounding what a terrific young actress Genie Francis was.  And then when you contrasted that to  Becky Herbst......it just didn't hold as much weight.  Again, Becky was fine...just not superb IMO.

 

I'd say Guza just whitewashed it a different way. It became about how hard done by Luke was and how he'd suffered all those years by living a lie with pathetic, deluded Laura. 

 

It's hard for me to compare Genie and Becky because the stories were so different, but I think for what she was given, when the story wasn't about Lucky verbally abusing his mother anyway, she was one of the stronger elements. 

 

Anyway, I don't want to go on because I know everyone but me loves this story so I'll stop. 

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8 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

I'd say Guza just whitewashed it a different way. It became about how hard done by Luke was and how he'd suffered all those years by living a lie with pathetic, deluded Laura. 

 

It's hard for me to compare Genie and Becky because the stories were so different, but I think for what she was given, when the story wasn't about Lucky verbally abusing his mother anyway, she was one of the stronger elements. 

 

Anyway, I don't want to go on because I know everyone but me loves this story so I'll stop. 

 

I can appreciate your viewpoint.  I do think the storyline got "Guzafied" to some extent and became about "Poor, poor Luke" as well.  Ugh. But another added benefit to this storyline was the tender love story of Lucky & Elizabeth.  So sweet!  Loved them.

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2 hours ago, OldGHFan said:

But another added benefit to this storyline was the tender love story of Lucky & Elizabeth.  So sweet!  Loved them.

 

I did, too - in the beginning when Lucky was played by Jonathan Jackson. It makes me wonder how their story would have played out had JJ not decided to leave in spring 1999. I just never bought Jacob Young or Greg Vaughan as Lucky.

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4 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

I couldn't have said any of this better than you just did. It's a shame Becky Herbst never won an Emmy for her excellent work. You could feel and almost taste Elizabeth's sheer terror. 

I will never forget her crawling out from the bushes in the snow, and Lucky saying her name.  Or the scene just before with the hand over her mouth on the bench, and then the empty shot of the park.  Just really excellent writing and producing at that point on the show.

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3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

I'd say Guza just whitewashed it a different way. It became about how hard done by Luke was and how he'd suffered all those years by living a lie with pathetic, deluded Laura. 

 

It's hard for me to compare Genie and Becky because the stories were so different, but I think for what she was given, when the story wasn't about Lucky verbally abusing his mother anyway, she was one of the stronger elements. 

 

Anyway, I don't want to go on because I know everyone but me loves this story so I'll stop. 

I did love the scene where Laura tells Lucky he doesn’t own her.  Not her history, or her feelings.  
 

I just wish Jonathan Jackson had played a few beats of not just the betrayal and anger but actual sadness.  If we had seen him just once crying with Laura, or just after leaving fighting with her, it would have been better for me over all.  The total anger was just not compelling after months.

 

There were times I felt like the perspective of the writing and episodes were making it seem like we should all be mad at Laura for forgiving him.  Like raping her was bad, but her loving him and forgiving him was worse.  And I’m not saying that I think the choices of Monty and ABC and Falken-Smith were correct.  Even Genie at 19 or 20 would not act the scenes where it was called a seduction.  Luke reads a letter she wrote.  But that is the history of these characters, and Laura should not have been made second to him again.

 

I just think there is a place where they could have revisited that part of their history with all four corners of the story having the complexity and their points of view being equal.

 

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6 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

I couldn't have said any of this better than you just did. It's a shame Becky Herbst never won an Emmy for her excellent work. You could feel and almost taste Elizabeth's sheer terror. 

She lost to Heather Tom that year, I believe. Genie Francis wasn’t even nominated, but Geary and Jackson won for their work.

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1 hour ago, BetterForgotten said:

She lost to Heather Tom that year, I believe. Genie Francis wasn’t even nominated, but Geary and Jackson won for their work.

Genie was truly robbed the year of Lucky’s death.  I recall Kim Zimmer even saying so in one of those Emmy profiles that year.

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1 hour ago, BetterForgotten said:

She lost to Heather Tom that year, I believe. Genie Francis wasn’t even nominated, but Geary and Jackson won for their work.

 

Yes, Heather Tom took home the Outstanding Younger Actress trophy in 1999. The other nominees in that category that year were Sarah Brown, Camryn Grimes, Ashley Jones and Sherri Saum. 

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On 2/14/2020 at 8:45 PM, titan1978 said:

Genie was truly robbed the year of Lucky’s death.  I recall Kim Zimmer even saying so in one of those Emmy profiles that year.

 

Yea, I was shocked that Genie wasn't even nominated.  Genie should have WON!  But that was also the year Susan Lucci finally won her Emmy.  A great moment in soap history.

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53 minutes ago, OldGHFan said:

 

Yea, I was shocked that Genie wasn't even nominated.  Genie should have WON!  But that was also the year Susan Lucci finally won her Emmy.  A great moment in soap history.

Actually, Lucky was presumed dead in 1999, so Genie Francis wouldn't have been eligible to be nominated for Lucky's death until the following year, when Susan Flannery won.

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11 hours ago, OldGHFan said:

But that was also the year Susan Lucci finally won her Emmy.  A great moment in soap history.

 

Unfortunately, that was also the moment when the mainstream media stopped caring about the Daytime Emmys.

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I was watching old episodes and I didn't remember this Tony and Lucy scene - it was jarring seeing him be this rough with her and it become borderline violent:

 

 

 

I also found the conversation they had the next day fascinating (Lynn Herring's vulnerability here is just great, rarely did we see that from Lucy and they never said much about her childhood prior to this I don't believe)

 

Edited by Vizion

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