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Guza famously complained that Labine left "nothing" behind when he took over. He's kind of right, actually, the show was running out of fuel by the end of her tenure. But she gave him the canvas he would ape for years (namely Sonny, and Sonny and Brenda). 

 

And credit where it's due, Labine did bring this show into the 90's. It wasn't Monty's GH, but the show needed a big leap forward, and that's what Labine accomplished. It's a shame she was awful/boring as hell at OLTL and GL

Edited by BetterForgotten

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19 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Guza famously complained that Labine left "nothing" behind when he took over. He's kind of right, actually, the show was running out of fuel by the end of her tenure. But she gave him the canvas he would ape for years (namely Sonny, and Sonny and Brenda). 

 

And credit where it's due, Labine did bring this show into the 90's. It wasn't Monty's GH, but the show needed a big leap forward, and that's what Labine accomplished. It's a shame she was awful/boring as hell at OLTL and GL

She left him pretty well set up, it was just the beginnings of it all, and not fully developed plots.  But he did not inherit a bunch of stories already deep in motion.  His complaints are funny because when he came back, he famously wrapped up nearly everything as a ghost writer before his first official show back, when Nikolas was shot outside Luke’s because he hated everything.

 

Bobbie’s flashback/dreams with babies crying, Jason was firmly in Robin’s orbit, his accident, and Jax were all Labine’s last plots. He took them in different places than she would have (Jax was meant for Lois, etc).

 

But when you look at her last six months, the show was kind of meandering and had lost a lot of momentum with Stone’s death.  It had so dominated for months.  That story took the wind out of the sails of the show for a bit when it ended, IMO.

Edited by titan1978

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IMO Guza under Riche beats Guza under Phelps. Guza in general beats anyone who's been writing GH post 2014, and that's an unfortunate statement considering the damage he did to that soap.

 

Growing up in the 2000s, I thought GH was the bomb until I watched older episodes online and realized what I was watching was a far cry from what came before. The contrast between 90s and 00s GH became fully evident to me when I saw numerous classic episodes during the 50th anniversary marathon.

 

Case and point, the mob plots had more weight and impact to me from 93-95ish, I believe under Levinson then Labine. The mob stuff was wayy more serious with plots like breaking Frank Smith out of jail, and Luke's house getting shot up. There were earthy concequemces and not as much of the glorification of Sonny as we see today. The mob plots today lack any sort of dramatic impact, they're almost comical to say the least. The last time any mob drama hit hard for me was when Michael got shot in 2008, or the Metro Court fiasco in 07. 

Edited by ironlion

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7 hours ago, titan1978 said:

It was.  I read an interview with Susan Pratt and she mentioned Hoffman visiting the set, interviewing some of the cast and watching filming, hanging backstage, etc.

Oh, thanks. They really did a good job with that then!

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On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 8:12 PM, ironlion said:

IMO Guza under Riche beats Guza under Phelps. Guza in general beats anyone who's been writing GH post 2014, and that's an unfortunate statement considering the damage he did to that soap.

 

Growing up in the 2000s, I thought GH was the bomb until I watched older episodes online and realized what I was watching was a far cry from what came before. The contrast between 90s and 00s GH became fully evident to me when I saw numerous classic episodes during the 50th anniversary marathon.

 

Case and point, the mob plots had more weight and impact to me from 93-95ish, I believe under Levinson then Labine. The mob stuff was wayy more serious with plots like breaking Frank Smith out of jail, and Luke's house getting shot up. There were earthy concequemces and not as much of the glorification of Sonny as we see today. The mob plots today lack any sort of dramatic impact, they're almost comical to say the least. The last time any mob drama hit hard for me was when Michael got shot in 2008, or the Metro Court fiasco in 07. 

 

I have to agree Guza's GH is miles better than GH now and that's saying a lot.  By the end he was out of ideas and plagiarizing himself.  Even though a lot of his stuff in the end was bad, at least stuff happened.  Nothing ever happens of GH anymore.  Guza was at least good at big events.

I honestly think GH was pretty good creatively until about 2003-2004. The Courtney/Jason/Carly/Sonny stuff was overkill and that's when I feel like the mob glorification really began.  Obviously,  Sonny/Brenda began the Sonny is awesome narrative, but the Carson early years really took that to a new level and pushed the Jason is a hero hitman agenda that still haunts us today.

 

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 7:18 PM, titan1978 said:

She left him pretty well set up, it was just the beginnings of it all, and not fully developed plots.  But he did not inherit a bunch of stories already deep in motion.  His complaints are funny because when he came back, he famously wrapped up nearly everything as a ghost writer before his first official show back, when Nikolas was shot outside Luke’s because he hated everything.

 

Bobbie’s flashback/dreams with babies crying, Jason was firmly in Robin’s orbit, his accident, and Jax were all Labine’s last plots. He took them in different places than she would have (Jax was meant for Lois, etc).

 

But when you look at her last six months, the show was kind of meandering and had lost a lot of momentum with Stone’s death.  It had so dominated for months.  That story took the wind out of the sails of the show for a bit when it ended, IMO.

 

I agree the show was a little meandering and very dreary.  It was really heavy watching all of those death, cancer, accident stories right in a row.   There wasn't a whole lot of romance either. Kevin and Lucy are the only couple I can think of that were light hearted and happy.  Luke/Laura and Ned/Lois were together at this point I think, but both couples had a lot of back and forth between them. Sonny and Brenda had broken up and were being awful to one another plus we had to watch them with Lily/Miguel,  the q's were upset about Jason, everyone was sad about Stone.  It felt like 75% of the characters were miserable for several months, but I will say the Labine era and early Guza was probably the last great era of the show. 

 

I also think that Labine had a pretty solid idea where she wanted to go with Bobbie, Jason/Robin, Sonny/Brenda/Lily before she left. Some of the Luke/Laura stuff he probably took in his own direction and the Ned/Lois/Jax stuff which had to change because RS decided to leave.  So basically, I thinking all he changed was bringing the Cassadines back, inserting Jax into Sonny/Brenda, and writing Lois off.  Every other story seems firmly in place and I can't think of any stories that suddenly shifted direction when Guza started.

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On 10/8/2019 at 10:29 AM, vetsoapfan said:

Many shows nowadays, particularly GH, not only ignore egregious transgressions, but they treat degenerate criminals (Sonny, Jason, Franco, etc.) as romantic heroes. It's revolting.

 

Not to mention Luke before them. 

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10 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

Not to mention Luke before them. 

It was quite a leap from thug, to low level mobster, to rapist, to hero, to mayor.

 

The difference with Sonny is that he stayed a mobster and everybody else became immoral somehow.  Like their failures of character had more weight than his did.

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13 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

Not to mention Luke before them. 

 

I have been denouncing the irresponsible treatment of Luke, the degenerate mobster, would-be hitman and rapist who somehow became the idolized hero of Port Charles, for decades. Yuck.

 

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

It was quite a leap from thug, to low level mobster, to rapist, to hero, to mayor.

 

The difference with Sonny is that he stayed a mobster and everybody else became immoral somehow.  Like their failures of character had more weight than his did.

 

A few months ago, watching Laura sing Sonny's praises while they were sitting in the chapel made me retch. 

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Have any of you listened to Steve Burton and Bradford Anderson’s podcast?

 

I do not listen to every episode, but I do listen to the episodes with vets.  There was a great two part episode with Genie Francis, and another two part with Lesley Charleson.  If was great to hear her opinion of the Eckerts and the differences between David Lewis and John Ingle’s Edward.  Also how she felt betrayed by Gloria, and how awful she treated them when she came back. 
 

The interviews are usually a little bit about their history before diving into GH.  Sometimes they flub the details a little but these people are not historians of their show like a lot of fans are.

 

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2 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I have been denouncing the irresponsible treatment of Luke, the degenerate mobster, would-be hitman and rapist who somehow became the idolized hero of Port Charles, for decades. Yuck.

 

I have to wonder if anyone at ABCD back then thought that this was a bad idea, or if anyone objected. Didn't anyone consider what type of message they were sending? 

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3 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

I have to wonder if anyone at ABCD back then thought that this was a bad idea, or if anyone objected. Didn't anyone consider what type of message they were sending? 

 

As long as GH was raking in the $$$, I doubt they cared anything at all about social responsibility.

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7 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

As long as GH was raking in the $$$, I doubt they cared anything at all about social responsibility.

 

I know you're right, but did any fans write in and complain, or did any columnist take GH to task? This week marks the 40th anniversary of the day the rape was originally aired. I was only a month old at the time, so I have no memory of it or what the public reaction was back then.

 

I've seen some clips on YT of Laura's group therapy sessions and how triggered she was every time "Rise" (which was one of 1979's biggest hits) would play. To think that it was a woman writer and a woman producer who set that story into motion is disturbing...and disgusting. What a slap in the face to so many real-life victims.

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29 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

I know you're right, but did any fans write in and complain, or did any columnist take GH to task? This week marks the 40th anniversary of the day the rape was originally aired. I was only a month old at the time, so I have no memory of it or what the public reaction was back then.

 

I've seen some clips on YT of Laura's group therapy sessions and how triggered she was every time "Rise" (which was one of 1979's biggest hits) would play. To think that it was a woman writer and a woman producer who set that story into motion is disturbing...and disgusting. What a slap in the face to so many real-life victims.

 

Yes, there were complaints from viewers in the soap press, and actors from the show were vocal in their protests. One magazine published an extended criticism: "General Hospital is DEGENERATE!"

 

Pat Falken Smith set the rape story in motion, but (AT FIRST, anyway) she was not treating it as a sexy seduction (Laura was brutalized), and she was not treating Luke as a noble hero, revered by all Port Charles. It was Monty's and ABC's decision to go that route. 

Edited by vetsoapfan

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4 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

Thanks for all the info, and for clarifying how PFS wrote the story. I didn't know all that. 

 

Well, how PFS might have conceived the original story is not how it later turned out. The night in the disco was definitely portrayed as rape (made all the more repugnant because Laura was a minor), but even during the end of PFS' first reign, Luke and Laura were being treated as an end-game romantic duo. Had PFS planned to gradually develop it that way all along? I don't know, but I doubt Luke turning into a hero so definitely and suddenly would have been PFS' choice. Judging from her past work, I think PFS would have had the Luke-Laura-Scotty saga be much more ambiguous and complex, instead of instant-hero Luke and instant-villain Scotty. She understood soaps' traditional stance on morality. Luke would have suffered for years for his crime. But Monty and the network had an agenda (to make the popular Tony Geary and his degenerate character palatable to the audience), so that's how it went. I'd love to know PFS' uncensored thoughts on the sudden switch-around.

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